Cinny said:
"Roaches"?

That's the song that got pop airplay, but he was on the R&B station before that. The first Bobby Jimmy song I remember hearing was Big Butt. I thought it was Eddie Murphy. My favorite was We Like Ugly Women. The actual music video used to be up on Youtube, but I can't find it now.

bboy87 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

It's interesting comparing these facts to the happenings of today. Gap Band IV was the only R&B album to go platinum in 1982 meanwhile in 2017, the only album to go platinum at all was Taylor Swift's latest release. In 1982, the industry was said to be experiencing a recession (ironically spurred by the disco backlash in '79) and though a lot has changed since then, if the Gap Band being the only R&B/ "black" act to go platinum is symbolic of the recession in the music industry at the time then Swift's Reputation being the only 2017 release to hit a million must symbolize an outright depression now.

If downloading for free and streaming existed in the 1980s, those records wouldn't have sold as well either. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to compare how music is consumed today from how it did decades ago. It's like comparing the 1980s to pre 1940s when there were no albums and everything was 78s. It was the 1970s when the huge blockbuster selling albums really came about. Like Boston, Saturday Night Fever, Pink Floyd, & Fleetwood Mac. Albums weren't generally as big before then. At one time, Tapestry by Carole King was considered the biggest selling album in history and that was released in the early 1970s. So that meant that she outsold albums by Elvis, The Beatles, and the soundtracks from movie musicals that were popular in that era. The Beatles sales increased a lot when their stuff was re-released on CD around 1987 and people bought it all over again and with several further reissues since then. Same with Dark Side Of The Moon. Pre-1970s, the average act released 2 or 3 albums a year, and in some cases, non-album singles in addition to that. So comparing Thriller to the 1960s doesn't really work either, since in the 1960s they didn't milk an album for 2 years to release 7 singles from it.

In the 1980s, people had things to play records & tapes on, like component sets, walkmans, boomboxes, etc. How often do you see someone walking around with a boombox now? There were also more places to buy music in the 1980s. Kids & teens could take their allowance to buy a 45 that cost around $1.50. You can't buy a download with cash, you need a credit card or something. You can't really judge popularity of music today by somebody buying something. That's probably why Youtube uses streaming in their chart criteria today. A certain amount of streams is also considered a sale of 1 album. So, technically it's possible to get a gold or platinum album now without anybody buying anything. I think a billion and something views is the equivalent of platinum in the US. But Youtube is worldwide views, so that number can't be used to get a platinum award here, the views would have to come from the US only.

MickyDolenz said:

MTV is about playing nothing these days

MotownSubdivision said:

The difference though is that people actually had to buy the albums and singles before streaming. It says a lot more when people actually had go out and purchase a record than going on YouTube and just listening to the latest song. Things have changed (and I've said as much) but it's not like the industry is in a better place than it was pre-internet.

New technology usually hurts the popularity of what came before. Recorded music made people buy less sheet music & player pianos. Cars killed the horse & buggy/stagecoaches. Telephone killed the telegraph. Talkies killed silent movies. Television killed radio serials (like the infamous War Of The Worlds). 33 & 45 killed 78s. Push button phones killed the rotary dial. The walkman killed 8-tracks. Video games hurt the popularity of pinball machines and board games. Cable/satellite hurt the popularity of network TV. CDs killed the popularity of records & tapes. The internet killed CDs and so on and hurt printed media like newspapers & magazines. It didn't help that CDs cost more than records & tapes did and CDs were cheaper to make. So the recording industry hurt themselves with that and discontinuing physical singles to force people to buy albums they wouldn't have bought in the first place to get 1 or 2 songs. CGI has hurt traditional cel animation, stop motion, practical effects, and claymation. Many people have cell phones than use landlines and there's fewer pay phones around, when you used to can find them in front of just about any store. Remember Superman used to change in a phone booth.

The actual entertainment has changed. The internet has also changed music in ways other than free music. People decades ago didn't know much about singers & actors or didn't care. Now with hundreds of TV channels and social media like Twitter, people know every little thing about everybody. There's a less "us and them" of pre-internet celebrities. I think the popularity of hip hop acts dressing like an everyday ordinary person hurt that too. The Beatles didn't look the everyday person of their time with their Moe Howard mop tops. Motley Crue & Michael Jackson didn't dress like the person off the street. Notice that rappers that dressed flashy and/or danced like MC Hammer were made fun by some rap fans and weren't condsidered "keeping it real" or street. People in the past accepted Mickey Rooney or Katharine Hepburn playing Chinese & Japanese characters in movies. That won't fly today. TV shows like All In The Family, Sanford & Son, Benny Hill, & Married With Children probably wouldn't be accepted by todays mainstream audience either. Look at that recent remake of Death Wish with Bruce Willis, it didn't do too well. But Charles Bronson had several sequels. The idea of "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" won't fly today either. People change during the decades from past generations. Look at the first line of I Saw Her Standing There by The Beatles, "She was just seventeen and you know what I mean". People today would have a field day with that. There's several old blues & pop songs like that too like Sweet Sixteen . Those Led Zeppelin rumors about Devil worship and sharks might have hurt them in the social media era.

[Edited 4/11/18 17:47pm]

MickyDolenz said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The difference though is that people actually had to buy the albums and singles before streaming. It says a lot more when people actually had go out and purchase a record than going on YouTube and just listening to the latest song. Things have changed (and I've said as much) but it's not like the industry is in a better place than it was pre-internet.

New technology usually hurts the popularity of what came before. Recorded music made people buy less sheet music & player pianos. Cars killed the horse & buggy/stagecoaches. Telephone killed the telegraph. Talkies killed silent movies. Television killed radio serials (like the infamous War Of The Worlds). 33 & 45 killed 78s. Push button phones killed the rotary dial. The walkman killed 8-tracks. Video games hurt the popularity of pinball machines and board games. Cable/satellite hurt the popularity of network TV. CDs killed the popularity of records & tapes. The internet killed CDs and so on and hurt printed media like newspapers & magazines. It didn't help that CDs cost more than records & tapes did and CDs were cheaper to make. So the recording industry hurt themselves with that and discontinuing physical singles to force people to buy albums they wouldn't have bought in the first place to get 1 or 2 songs. CGI has hurt traditional cel animation, stop motion, practical effects, and claymation. Many people have cell phones than use landlines and there's fewer pay phones around, when you used to can find them in front of just about any store. Remember Superman used to change in a phone booth.

The actual entertainment has changed. The internet has also changed music in ways other than free music. People decades ago didn't know much about singers & actors or didn't care. Now with hundreds of TV channels and social media like Twitter, people know every little thing about everybody. There's a less "us and them" of pre-internet celebrities. I think the popularity of hip hop acts dressing like an everyday ordinary person hurt that too. The Beatles didn't look the everyday person of their time with their Moe Howard mop tops. Motley Crue & Michael Jackson didn't dress like the person off the street. Notice that rappers that dressed flashy and/or danced like MC Hammer were made fun by some rap fans and weren't condsidered "keeping it real" or street. People in the past accepted Mickey Rooney or Katharine Hepburn playing Chinese & Japanese characters in movies. That won't fly today. TV shows like All In The Family, Sanford & Son, Benny Hill, & Married With Children probably wouldn't be accepted by todays mainstream audience either. Look at that recent remake of Death Wish with Bruce Willis, it didn't do too well. But Charles Bronson had several sequels. The idea of "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" won't fly today either. People change during the decades from past generations. Look at the first line of I Saw Her Standing There by The Beatles, "She was just seventeen and you know what I mean". People today would have a field day with that. There's several old blues & pop songs like that too like Sweet Sixteen . Those Led Zeppelin rumors about Devil worship and sharks might have hurt them in the social media era.

[Edited 4/11/18 17:47pm]

Very thoughtful and insightful post.

214 said:

Very thoughtful and insightful post.

I just read a new article that said Grand Theft Auto 5 has made more money (around 6 billion) than any movie in history and it has sold 90 million copies to date. That is more than Michael Jackson's Thriller album. It said even adjusted for inflation, Grand Theft has made more than Gone With The Wind. So that says to me that video games has taken over from the popularity of buying music. And video game discs usually cost more than CDs, seeing movies at the theater, and DVD/Blu Ray. People are willing to spend money on entertainment that they like, and maybe music is not as important to younger generations than gaming is. Grand Theft Auto does have music in it though on the radio stations you can get in the cars. I've noticed that old music that is in GTA get a lot more views on Youtube than they would have otherwise. Act Like You Know by Fat Larry's Band has over 16 million views and I haven't heard that song on the radio in many years. I don't think that song was that popular when it was originally released.

MickyDolenz said:

214 said:

Very thoughtful and insightful post.

I just read a new article that said Grand Theft Auto 5 has made more money (around 6 billion) than any movie in history and it has sold 90 million copies to date. That is more than Michael Jackson's Thriller album. It said even adjusted for inflation, Grand Theft has made more than Gone With The Wind. So that says to me that video games has taken over from the popularity of buying music. And video game discs usually cost more than CDs, seeing movies at the theater, and DVD/Blu Ray. People are willing to spend money on entertainment that they like, and maybe music is not as important to younger generations than gaming is. Grand Theft Auto does have music in it though on the radio stations you can get in the cars. I've noticed that old music that is in GTA get a lot more views on Youtube than they would have otherwise. Act Like You Know by Fat Larry's Band has over 16 million views and I haven't heard that song on the radio in many years. I don't think that song was that popular when it was originally released.

Video games have become in the last 20 years, a very important and profitable source of entertainment. You may be right about old songs havin more views and exposure because of their unclusion in the GTA seriesm for instance I saw this in some Skeleton's video on Youtube, most of the comments (and I only read a few) said that they knew this song because of its inclusion in GTA.

Rush Limbaugh's guy was head.

214 said:

Video games have become in the last 20 years, a very important and profitable source of entertainment. You may be right about old songs havin more views and exposure because of their unclusion in the GTA seriesm for instance I saw this in some Skeleton's video on Youtube, most of the comments (and I only read a few) said that they knew this song because of its inclusion in GTA.

It's definitely increased since the early ping pong TV game. I remember going to see the Street Fighter movie with Van Damme. But I think that part in Jackie Chan's City Hunter is closer to the actual game. The video games dealing with music like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, & DJ Hero are popular too, like the one with The Beatles. I think this is one of the ways The Beatles get new audiences, the people running their business knows how to promote them with new technology. There's a dance game with Michael Jackson and also the one based on Moonwalker. There was even a Kris Kross video game in the 1990s. The first music related video game I remember is Journey Escape at the arcade.

000000 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg

no rick james, cameo, parliament/ funkadelic, etc... Black Entertainment Television was created . because black artist were not getting airplay. The few exceptions were Prince & Micheal Jackson. Both Prince & MJ benefitted greatly by being the first & only non white artist to air on MTV

The very 1st was Billy Ocean if I recall.

Then Prince, then Mj.

Graycap23 said:

000000 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg

no rick james, cameo, parliament/ funkadelic, etc... Black Entertainment Television was created . because black artist were not getting airplay. The few exceptions were Prince & Micheal Jackson. Both Prince & MJ benefitted greatly by being the first & only non white artist to air on MTV

The very 1st was Billy Ocean if I recall.

Then Prince, then Mj.

Caribbean Queen?

MJ always gets credit for being first but, if I recall right, I saw Prince videos on MTV before MJ got airplay...

purplethunder3121 said:

Graycap23 said:

The very 1st was Billy Ocean if I recall.

Then Prince, then Mj.

Caribbean Queen?

Yes.

Billy Ocean's "Caribbean Queen" was released in 1984,so he could not have been the first.

Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" video and Prince's "1999" video both began airing on MTV in early 1983.

SoulAlive said:

Billy Ocean's "Caribbean Queen" was released in 1984,so he could not have been the first.

Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" video and Prince's "1999" video both began airing on MTV in early 1983.

I stand corrected. See what happnes when u get old.

I remember more Billy Ocean than Prince and Mj in the early days.

purplethunder3121 said:

MJ always gets credit for being first but, if I recall right, I saw Prince videos on MTV before MJ got airplay...

I saw Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant first. That was a popular video.

MickyDolenz said:

purplethunder3121 said:

MJ always gets credit for being first but, if I recall right, I saw Prince videos on MTV before MJ got airplay...

I saw Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant first. That was a popular video.

Yes! Thanks for jogging my memory. That one was played a lot.

purplethunder3121 said:

MickyDolenz said:

I saw Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant first. That was a popular video.

Yes! Thanks for jogging my memory. That one was played a lot.

lol...me 2.

purplethunder3121 said:

Yes! Thanks for jogging my memory. That one was played a lot.

I also remember a video by Joan Armatrading, but don't remember what the song was. It might have been before Eddy Grant, don't remember exactly. She was one of those singers I'd see on MTV and Friday Night Videos, but I never heard her on the radio. There were a lot of acts on MTV like that, I didn't hear them on the radio. There was some ska band too, but they weren't all black. Don't remember their name. It had black & white members.

I've always wondered about the legitimacy of the claim that early-MTV didn't support black artists. I suspect it is more a case of their trying to locate their demographic, the way radio stations would at the time, before they figured out that you could have a 'new wave' show for 30 minutes, followed by a hip-hop show, followed by a heavy metal show, etc., and sort of use all these genres collectively.

The early programming was probably very resultant of the times -- early 80s. Had MTV started in, say, 1975 or something, I suspect there'd have been more black artists from the off, because radio was still less segregated. But after the death of disco and the (re-)compartmentalizing of "R&B" into a side genre by corporate American radio, MTV played it safe by going for mainstream white audience.

In fact, the biggest recipients of success from early MTV wasn't really white American artists; it was more so white British artists! Hence, the "2nd British Invasion" circa 1982 to 1985.

[Edited 4/13/18 20:37pm]

ThePanther said:

I've always wondered about the legitimacy of the claim that early-MTV didn't support black artists. I suspect it is more a case of their trying to locate their demographic, the way radio stations would at the time, before they figured out that you could have a 'new wave' show for 30 minutes, followed by a hip-hop show, followed by a heavy metal show, etc., and sort of use all these genres collectively.

The early programming was probably very resultant of the times -- early 80s. Had MTV started in, say, 1975 or something, I suspect there'd have been more black artists from the off, because radio was still less segregated. But after the death of disco and the (re-)compartmentalizing of "R&B" into a side genre by corporate American radio, MTV played it safe by going for mainstream white audience.

In fact, the biggest recipients of success from early MTV wasn't really white American artists; it was more so white British artists! Hence, the "2nd British Invasion" circa 1982 to 1985.

[Edited 4/13/18 20:37pm]

Played it safe?

Not a chance, pure music segregation just like the radio.

[Edited 4/14/18 7:29am]

ThePanther said:

(Re: above two responses)

I wasn't trying to say that MTV was clever or smart. I was simply saying that I don't think there was any such policy at MTV in 1981 as "Don't play black artists". Obviously there wasn't, since they played a black artist's video on the first day the network existed. MTV programmers probably just did the same thing many radio stations did after disco died overnight -- targeted the white, mainstream audience.

I'm not putting a value-judgement on it as in 'good' or 'bad'; I'm just sayin'.

ThePanther said:

Graycap23 said:

000000 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg

no rick james, cameo, parliament/ funkadelic, etc... Black Entertainment Television was created . because black artist were not getting airplay. The few exceptions were Prince & Micheal Jackson. Both Prince & MJ benefitted greatly by being the first & only non white artist to air on MTV

The very 1st was Billy Ocean if I recall.

Then Prince, then Mj.

Eddy Grant was the first.

He, Joan Armatrading, Tina Turner, Prince and I think I think even Musical Youth were on MTV but in light rotation.

Michael and Prince were the first to be in regular and heavy rotation.

bboy87 said:

bboy87 said:

Graycap23 said:

The very 1st was Billy Ocean if I recall.

Then Prince, then Mj.

Eddy Grant was the first.

He, Joan Armatrading, Tina Turner, Prince and I think I think even Musical Youth were on MTV but in light rotation.

Michael and Prince were the first to be in regular and heavy rotation.

That sounds about right.

You know MJ had to take credit for everything.