cindymay said:

bboy87 said:

but look at them now...down the tubes

kitbradley said:

Micheal, Prince, Chaka, Tina, The Pointers and Lionel were all in regular MTV rotation in 1984.

yep and I also remember in 1983,Donna Summer's "She Works Hard For The Money" video being played in heavy rotation on MTV.

Cinny said:

kitbradley said:

but black crossover artists were getting air time on MTV before hip-hop went into rotation. Micheal, Prince, Chaka, Tina, The Pointers and Lionel were all in regular MTV rotation in 1984. I can't remember the rapper's name but on a hip hop documentary, he mentioned pop/rock audiences didn't feel comfortable with hip-hop until Chaka's "I Feel For You" became a huge Pop hit.

You're absolutely right. Your post rings true even though I was in Canada watching Much Music.

I honestly don't believe Chaka's "I feel for you" was the break through.

Run DMC broke it open. Specifically when they covered Aeorshith's "walk this way" with both bands in the video.

Rev said:

Cinny said:

You're absolutely right. Your post rings true even though I was in Canada watching Much Music.

I honestly don't believe Chaka's "I feel for you" was the break through.

Run DMC broke it open. Specifically when they covered Aeorshith's "walk this way" with both bands in the video.

Run DMC did their thing but it was Michael Jackson. He one of the first artist to spend big dollars to make decent videos. Thriller was an amazing.. But Prince was equally savvy when instead of a short film he released a full length movie .

00000 said:

BET was a superior counterpart to MTV, much superior to me. Unfortunately, it too lost its edge and character when its owner sold it to ViaCom (??) not sure which company, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hamad said:

MotownSubdivision said:

bboy87 said:

Ron Weisner who was MJ's manager from 1978 to 1983, tried to use the excuse that black artists and labels weren't investing in music videos so there was lack of videos to be aired

BS

Earth, Wind, and Fire, Stevie Wonder, The Jacksons, Michael Jackson, Prince, Rick James, Cameo, The Gap Band, The Brothers Johnson, Sylvester, and others all videos. While Motown and other labels were skeptical of the impact or need for videos, videos by black acts DID exist so that excuse is void

There wasn't a valid excuse from anybody on this subject. The network itself said they only featured rock despite the network being called Music Television; rock isn't the only genre of music and even to this day, many hardcore rock fans believe their genre of choice is the only legitimate form of music there is. Except for perhaps its very first year on air, MTV never showcased only rock artists. The most featured type of acts next to rock artists were new wavers and synth poppers and that doesn't include the many regular pop names at the time. Hall & Oates were one of those regular pop names and their music was heavily R&B-oriented; Rick James himself used them as an example of MTV's prejudice. If the channel really was true to its name, we would've seen those black artists you mentioned's videos airing alongside and in between those of the rockers and new wavers. Remember how big Marvin Gaye's commercial comeback was with "Sexual Healing"? Now, imagine just how much bigger it could've been with MTV's support; no telling how much more his stock could've rose. I don't think MTV would've truly hit its stride without "Billie Jean" but if they had been regularly featuring the black talent of the time, the need for Michael wouldn't have been quite as big. [Edited 3/27/18 20:00pm]

All your points are valid (everyones) pertaining to the … 'MTV breakthrough' and all that, but simply put, it was only a matter of time. The walls were already crumbling and had been for some time. My personal view/opinion.

.

Now middle management at MTV might have not seen total integration coming as swiftly as it had, but nonetheless everyone of my generation did. WE were calling/demanding for all our artists’ music. (Didn’t we clear much of the way for you’all with Woodstock?)

.

I’m (white and) older than most of you and we (my generation) weren’t seeing/hearing the race of the artist in songs/music as teenagers in the 70’s. For example if I heard the Supremes were going to be on a varsity show, you can bet I stayed up to watch it!

.

Sadly, if anything I think we’ve gone backwards in the United States, but that is a whole other ‘red’ hot topic. ~DD55

DD55 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

DD55 said:

All your points are valid (everyones) pertaining to the … 'MTV breakthrough' and all that, but simply put, it was only a matter of time. The walls were already crumbling and had been for some time. My personal view/opinion.

.

Now middle management at MTV might have not seen total integration coming as swiftly as it had, but nonetheless everyone of my generation did. WE were calling/demanding for all our artists’ music. (Didn’t we clear much of the way for you’all with Woodstock?)

.

I’m (white and) older than most of you and we (my generation) weren’t seeing/hearing the race of the artist in songs/music as teenagers in the 70’s. For example if I heard the Supremes were going to be on a varsity show, you can bet I stayed up to watch it!

.

Sadly, if anything I think we’ve gone backwards in the United States, but that is a whole other ‘red’ hot topic. ~DD55

It's kinda funny how backward-minded MTV was after all that progress your generation fought for in the 60s and was prevalent in the 70s. Then the 80s come and for some reason, MTV sees fit to keep their network as lily white as possible and the charts started seeing less diversity than the previous decade, particularly the Top 40. Thankfully, that didn't last long but it seems we're back at that point in music now. MTV was on thin ice financially and in danger of elimination for its first 3 years. 1984 was when the network finally pulled out of the red and turned a profit. I'm sure the higher ups ate their words and choked on them when they started experiencing success in '83 and '84, two years where the most popular artists on the planet were black men.

yup.

.

As far as race and integration goes, MTV is just a footnote, was then and is now. The real issue right now is how (in the United States) we’re taking steps backwards. We (my generation) fought for equal rights, voting rights, ending the Viet Nam war and now years later we are seeing the ‘right’ trample all over voting rights and are chipping away at the law little by little thereby with the ultimate goal of denying people their right to vote.

.

There is an atmosphere of the rich driving a divide and conquer agenda, and until we realize we must unite and work together we (as a country) can’t grow.

.

In 1968, I had hope…. In 2018, I’m just scared of what the future will bring for everyone. Sorry to go a bit off topic …. Didn’t really mean to turn this into a political discussion, but at the end of the day it is a political discussion.

.

… my opinion only! Kind regards & Peace, ~DD55

DD55 said:

.

In 1968, I had hope…. In 2018, I’m just scared of what the future will bring for everyone. Sorry to go a bit off topic …. Didn’t really mean to turn this into a political discussion, but at the end of the day it is a political discussion.

.

… my opinion only! Kind regards & Peace, ~DD55

it's all good. speak your mind.

[Edited 3/28/18 20:23pm]

On the flip side, MTV's hesitation created an opening for BET to develop its own audience as a platform for black artists' videos.

namepeace said:

On the flip side, MTV's hesitation created an opening for BET to develop its own audience as a platform for black artists' videos.

BET wasn't music only though. I remember they weren't on the entire day at first. BET would show infomercails in the morning, and their programming came on in the afternoon and went off at night. There was another channel where people paid to request a video. I think it was called Video Jukebox. A few years later MTV created VH-1 to show adult contemporary and country crossover music videos. That's where you would see Kenny G, Charlene, and other acts that weren't shown on the main MTV channel

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

On the flip side, MTV's hesitation created an opening for BET to develop its own audience as a platform for black artists' videos.

BET wasn't music only though. I remember they weren't on the entire day at first. BET would show infomercails in the morning, and their programming came on in the afternoon and went off at night. There was another channel where people paid to request a video. I think it was called Video Jukebox. A few years later MTV created VH-1 to show adult contemporary and country crossover music videos. That's where you would see Kenny G, Charlene, and other acts that weren't shown on the main MTV channel

I remember that too. What I was getting at ties into that. The influx of videos by black artists weren't being played by MTV en masse, which created an opening for BET to fill time with original content.

namepeace said:

I remember that too. What I was getting at ties into that. The influx of videos by black artists weren't being played by MTV en masse, which created an opening for BET to fill time with original content.

Video Soul & Video Vibrations would show videos by white acts too. I remember them showing Get Nekked by Rick Dees and Black Cars by Gino Vannelli. I never saw them on MTV. Soul Train had a lot of pop music in the mid 1980s like Don Henley & Huey Lewis. I think Don Cornelius was trying to get a crossover audience at the time, kinda like Dick Clark attempted to get Don's audience with Soul Unlimited in the 1970s. Don did not understand why rap was becoming popular. Kurtis Blow gave an interview a few years ago and talked about appearing on Soul Train the first time. A few early rappers have said they toured with funk and R&B performers and some of them did not understand rap either and would cut the sound off or something when they were the opening act. Ironically, white acts like Blondie accepted hip hop before some black artists did. Wham! first singles were rap songs (Young Guns, Wham! Rap) and there was Queen Of The Rapping Scene by Modern Romance.

Why does VH1 always get overlooked in these discussions as if they were the only music channel that existed

paisleypark4 said:

Why does VH1 always get overlooked in these discussions as if they were the only music channel that existed

MTV and VH-1 was started & ran by the same company. In the beginning VH-1 was the channel that showed Air Supply videos and other light rock and AC hits.

MickyDolenz said:

paisleypark4 said:

Why does VH1 always get overlooked in these discussions as if they were the only music channel that existed

MTV and VH-1 was started & ran by the same company. In the beginning VH-1 was the channel that showed Air Supply videos and other light rock and AC hits.

They could have been playing Dionne Warwick or Deniece Williams and Johnny Mathis.

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

I remember that too. What I was getting at ties into that. The influx of videos by black artists weren't being played by MTV en masse, which created an opening for BET to fill time with original content.

Video Soul & Video Vibrations would show videos by white acts too. I remember them showing Get Nekked by Rick Dees and Black Cars by Gino Vannelli. I never saw them on MTV. Soul Train had a lot of pop music in the mid 1980s like Don Henley & Huey Lewis. I think Don Cornelius was trying to get a crossover audience at the time, kinda like Dick Clark attempted to get Don's audience with Soul Unlimited in the 1970s. Don did not understand why rap was becoming popular. Kurtis Blow gave an interview a few years ago and talked about appearing on Soul Train the first time. A few early rappers have said they toured with funk and R&B performers and some of them did not understand rap either and would cut the sound off or something when they were the opening act. Ironically, white acts like Blondie accepted hip hop before some black artists did. Wham! first singles were rap songs (Young Guns, Wham! Rap) and there was Queen Of The Rapping Scene by Modern Romance.

Other than maybe a song or two by LL and Salt & Pepa, Hip-Hop was not being played on radio much at all, until the late 80s. During the height of their careers, I never heard Run DMC on any black stations, let alone Pop stations.

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

I remember that too. What I was getting at ties into that. The influx of videos by black artists weren't being played by MTV en masse, which created an opening for BET to fill time with original content.

Video Soul & Video Vibrations would show videos by white acts too. I remember them showing Get Nekked by Rick Dees and Black Cars by Gino Vannelli. I never saw them on MTV. Soul Train had a lot of pop music in the mid 1980s like Don Henley & Huey Lewis. I think Don Cornelius was trying to get a crossover audience at the time, kinda like Dick Clark attempted to get Don's audience with Soul Unlimited in the 1970s. Don did not understand why rap was becoming popular. Kurtis Blow gave an interview a few years ago and talked about appearing on Soul Train the first time. A few early rappers have said they toured with funk and R&B performers and some of them did not understand rap either and would cut the sound off or something when they were the opening act. Ironically, white acts like Blondie accepted hip hop before some black artists did. Wham! first singles were rap songs (Young Guns, Wham! Rap) and there was Queen Of The Rapping Scene by Modern Romance.

I especially remember all that. The white crossover artists of the time provided new content for BET as well, and Donnie Simpson and Sherry Carter were two of the best hosts in the business.

As for hip-hop, it was coming up at a time not only when the sound of music was changing, but the demographics were transitioning. Many of the big funk and R&B acts of the time probably came up listening to everything from swing to disco and rap coming from these younger (maybe in some cases MUCH younger) cats had to have sounded like TV static to them.

Cinny said:

They could have been playing Dionne Warwick or Deniece Williams and Johnny Mathis.

kitbradley said:

Other than maybe a song or two by LL and Salt & Pepa, Hip-Hop was not being played on radio much at all, until the late 80s. During the height of their careers, I never heard Run DMC on any black stations, let alone Pop stations.

Maybe that's the case where you live, but I heard a lot of rap on the radio, even comedy stuff like Bobby Jimmy & The Critters, President's Rap by Rich Little, Ya Mama by Wuf Ticket, and Rappin Duke by Shawn Brown. Acts like Whodini, Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, Kurtis Blow, Fat Boys, Sugarhill Gang, etc. were popular on R&B radio. They'd play the full versions of Jimmy Spicer's Super Rhymes and Rapper's Delight. Local pop radio would play Run DMC mainly starting with the Raising Hell album. Top 40 played Wipe Out by the Fat Boys & Beach Boys so heavily that I got tired of it. There was a lot of breakdance tunes as well like Street Dance, Rockit, There's No Stoppin' Us (another one I got tired of hearing at the time), Egyptian Lover, etc. A popular tune was Play That Beat by Whiz-Kid. Maybe some of these were local hits but they did get a lot of airplay here. There was even a special version of Five Minutes Of Funk by Whodini that had an extra verse that mentioned the DJs on the local R&B station that the station used to play. That also happened with Request Line by Rock Master Scott. I remember kids at school would sing We Want Some P-- by 2 Live Crew. I didn't even know that was a real song until months later I heard someone with a boombox was playing it in front of a store. Obviously that one never got radio airplay. Then that Roxanne Roxanne song blew up and it was like 200 answer songs to that one.

MotownSubdivision said:

cindymay said:

Bowie basically exposed their asses.

Mark got put on the spot. He couldn't give a good answer to any of Bowie's inquisitions. Granted, there wasn't much he could do or say without crossing the company line but Bowie had the dude sweatin'.

I remember that he called them out!

Goddess4Real said:

MotownSubdivision said:

cindymay said: Mark got put on the spot. He couldn't give a good answer to any of Bowie's inquisitions. Granted, there wasn't much he could do or say without crossing the company line but Bowie had the dude sweatin'.

I remember that he called them out!

This was one of the fondest rememberances of Bowie here and elsewhere in the wake of his passing.

In 1982, the only R&B album that went platinum was the Gap Band's IV album and Thriller going #1 in February '83 was a big deal as it was the first album by a black artist to go #1 in 3 years.

That also tells you how segregated things had gotten after the disco backlash

Prince and Lionel pushed things further in late '83 and '84 with 1999, Purple Rain, and Can't Slow Down

[Edited 4/6/18 15:33pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Maybe that's the case where you live, but I heard a lot of rap on the radio, even comedy stuff like Bobby Jimmy & The Critters,

"Roaches"?