MotownSubdivision said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't know if we can throw in JT and Bieber in that mix, because they are both white dudes that produce hip-hop and R&B, and they don't seem to be getting the criticism that Bruno is getting. There are other's, but JT and Bieber came to mind first.

JT is more suspect than straight up culture vulture. I used to be of the opinion he was but I've cooled on him in recent years, however I to got caught up in the whirlwind of his Halftime Show and all the Prince-related things surrounding it. Culture vulture or not, the dude has almost always struck me as fake.

Bieber was always trash and the fact that people fell for his little so-called comeback a few years ago irked me. The insulkt to injury was how the NARAS saw fit to not nominate Anti for AotY last year but nominated Bieber's album. Sure, the singles were catchy but to me, that's up there with the many questionable decisions the committee has made over the years; they literally nominated a shallow novelty album over the strongest project by one of the biggest stars of this era. Bieber's expiration date passed years ago but for some reason, people still drink him up. Like the remix of that stupid "Despacito" song which broke records because of his involvement. Spotify even went so far as to dub him the "Latin King" because of the song's success...

They wisely pulled this but not before people called them out on their BS.

.

.

mjscarousel said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

I agree but its mainly Black people that have a issue with Bruno Mars. I think other races of people do not care.

If Bruno was a White man, I doubt Black people would be outrage about it and that is the sad part. There have been many White male singers over the years and since the beginning of time i.e. Bobby Caldwell, Jon B, JT, Robin Thicke, etc who have made careers making R&B music. They have also been accepted as R&B singers in the BLACK community. So its hyprocritical how some Black people want to bash Bruno Mars just because he is a "Multiracial" man making R&B music.

The issue some Black people have with Bruno Mars is foolish and borderline prejudice. IMO, You can not support White men making R&B music but then turn around and personally attack the ethnic background of a multi-racial man who does the same thing because the whole race argument becomes a mute issue. So we can accept White men (the main cultural appropiators in the industry) making our music but not Multiracial men? What? Its ignorant. Thes arguments are baseless and hyprocritical. Bruno has actually done MORE for the Black musicians that he is inspired by compared to those White R&B singers, that is the irony. Black people have wack priorities in terms of what they want to make a issue about when it comes to the community. Its OK if some don't like Bruno Mars but to make it seem as though his music is the worse thing that hit the radio is bullshit. There is far worse pop trash. I also don't think Bruno deserves to be personally attacked or insulted. That woman in that video said that if Bruno died tomorrow she would not care and bake a cake, That is just hateful and cruel, nobody deserves that.

.

Well said. I could not agree with you more!

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

1. I brought up a SOUNDTRACKS to a movie, not the motion picture itself

2.) Don't believe for a second that I'm being caught up in feeling.....when someone starts calling somone else old/old tarts or whatever that was, that would be considered more of an insult than a gesture if a poll was taken....

3.) Prince, just like all great luminary figures, they all have influences but they eventually develop their own sound, and in Prince's case, the pioneer for the sound of an entire region...Minneapolis sound, produced his own work and countless others, don't even need to go down the line on that one

4.) I don't have blinders, but windshield wipers to know that when Uptown Funk was the major hit, and years before it, that he was going to be subjected to legal claims of infringement.....and when it happened, I wasn't shocked or surprised because nothing is different now than it was 30 years when sampling became prevalent and now it's at the point where the samples are being sampled. A group like De La Soul, they're music is not even available online/digital format because through contractual litigation during the time they was sampling music in the late 80s, in 2018, the label they are currently signed with has to go through every song they did featuring samples before their music can be available now, because allot of cheks will have to be shelled out from the people they were sampling from that didn't get shelled out when they started out........so their careers are now hamstrung......that situation is worse than the accusations of alledged cultural appropriation............

5.) The system does what it eventually wants to do and back who they eventually want to back and when they want to back them...history has proven that. All I been seeing is black people constantly attacked for a problem that extends decades upon decades, and half centuries beyond this topic thread right here. Since your'e so hung on on thinking black people have never confronted problems within the music industry, I would suggest you check out a 2 hour long interview of legendary radio host Bob Law and how he explains in thorough detail the steps being taken 30 years ago waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before this current performer stepped on the scene what was being done to de-emphasis and neutralize the very demands that you're talking about...anyone can type Bob Law's name in the youtube search engine and that interview will be the first clip that pops up.

6.) all the talk about derogatory content/lyrics that have been featured in music over the past 28 years, that was not a problem then, particulary since black people are being chastised, here, people in the community WOULD bring their concerns to radio stations/record labels if they even felt the slightest hint something derogatory was about to come down the pike, they were doing that then, but steps were taken to disenfranchise those efforts in which Bob Law talks about, but I already know that's not known. I had to learn that because I didn't know.

7.) and if my responses on this topic was read all the way through, I never SAID that Bruno Mars was a cultural appropriator, I said he interpolates music from the past. That's a big difference. You can really only appropriate from something that occurs in the present moment, not necessarily for something that was done over a quarter century ago

8.) I know how to discuss a topic w/out talking about group of people or individuals, or chastising a community and stick to the very issue at hand.....

9.) The first step to correcting a problem, or even a addressing it is to acknowledge that the problem exists. Takes allot of power to do that. Half the battle is already won at that point

10.) Ten years from now, I'm very interested to see where things stand based on the current trajectory

[Edited 3/20/18 3:34am]

You already know what you need to do if you really want change. Excessive yearning for yesteryear is not going to cut it bro....that is just the fact of the matter.

There is nothing wrong with making a critical comment about an artist because no one is above criticism. When it becomes a problem is when you let the artist's name become a red flag waved in your face to the point where you feel uncontrollably compelled to make the exact same comments that you made about them yesterday, last week, last month and last year and will probably continue to do so ten years from now, not realizing that you haven't done anything to meaningfully impact the situation.

I have given you a few suggestions so I don't know what else I can say to get through to you. I can give you one example though.....last month they made a change in the programming at my local radio station I did not appreciate. I emailed the station and within three days got a reply asking for my phone number. The program manager called me back and we talked for around forty minutes. Long story short, I did not get everything I wanted but I did see some changes within a week.

That's how it's done, Bro. But if you want to give up, roll over and play dead that is your perogative.

Btw, I am very familiar with Bob Law. He is a frequent guest on Carl's show. The point you are missing is that Mr. Law doesn't just sit around whining, he acts. Big difference.

Never assume what you think I don't know about.

I only said about waiting 10 years down the road as tongue and cheek.....

the handwriting is on that wall, that 30 year wall that's about to collapse.......

and I have a 3 decades worth of proof to prove it.........

For starters, album sales are reaching an all time low, and this trajectory started during the post-2002.......

and it's not just standard album CD sales, but digital sales are tanking to the core, even as record companies have tried to adapt to the age of the internet......sales last year alone plummeted by almost 25%, and that's with labels trying to accomodate record buyer's by offering the downloads of singles......they can't sell albums like they used to because there not enough quality singles to push the album sale as a whole.........so the root of the so called format evolution isn't that the reason why sales have hit the all time low............

we can take that same trajectory and apply that to these music award shows......

As recent as last month, we had the Grammy Awards, wich is suppsoed to be the most celebrated, most reknowned, most critically acclaimed awards show in recorded music.....and how many people tuned in to watch that show out of a 350 million people who live in this country........a grand total of 19 MILLION VIEWERS...they didn't even crack 20 million viewers, even with all the commercials and hype, and promotion and pre-gala anticipation, ........................now rewind that clock to 1984 when that year's Grammy Awards pulled in over 50 MILLION VIEWERS and that's when the population was 25-30% less than what it is now..........THAT'S how bad it is........

the 2010 Grammys and 2012 Grammys were an anomoly in terms of viewership due to the recent loss of Michael Jacksona and Whitney Houston, and then last year's Grammys paying tribute to Prince....

and before too long, if they can't improve on them stats, they'll mess around and start showing that award show on tape delay, or they may even go the pay-per view route.....

Same thing for the BET awards, the American Music Awards, Soul Train Awards....Billboard awards........all of em

in last year's BET music awards show, they witnessed a 20% drop in viewership from the previous year..........it's happening all across the board.....because of the dropoff and momentum churning decline in creativity and authenticity......

They rarely even promote the Soul Train Music Awards anymore because real R&B has been eviscerated right off the map.

and I guarantee the greatest level of viewership during these shows, especially the Grammys and BET music awards, the level of viewership is at its greatest whenever they are about to present the Liftetime Achievement Award.....people watch to see who's going to be awarded that lifetime AChievement award and then they turn the TV to something else....guarantee that happens and those segments only last 15 minutes tops

The tribute performances "remind us how good it use to be"...but that feeling is fleeting and is the equivalent of a sugar high....it don't last

It ain't like when 40 million plus tuned into Motown 25 and watched that show from beginning to end.......

and wait, I'm being accused of wanting for yesterday...

No that's not me, I'm not wishing for young talents introduced on teh scene to interpolate music from the past to "remind us how good it use to be"..........

throughout this entire thread, my wish is for these young artists to stop relying on that practice and with the encouragement of these record labels and the public to encourage them to cultivate their talent to learn how to make and craft their own music. I'm not talkin about always making something new or something never heard before, because it's not necessarily about that, but to learn how to start from scratch to conceptulize and believe in themselves enough to accomplish where they're being told is no longer possible......

who knows what they could accomplish if they tried it, but they don't know because they dont' know

to always want a young talent to remind us how good it use to be is actually undermining their career in the long term and not truly allowing them to discover their own voice to where you know w/out a question of a doubt there's no interpolation taking place....

and if the authenticity returns back to the forefront, that's gonna fade out allot of the very things people have been complaining about w/the derogatory lyrical content and the like, it would start to phase that on out to where the music will no longer be debased

what if the artists of the 70s was only known for replicating what was done in the 50s, or the artists of the 80s was only known for replicating what was done before in the 60s............we would not experiencing the very music today's artists are being encouraged to gravitate to in order to "remind us how good it used to be".....

I talk about the past the way I do, not to live in it, but to understand why the events of today are occuring the way they are, and when the past is studied, it's easy to determine what's going to lie ahead in the future

in today's music world, if you sell a million, you're celebrated like you've sold 10 million when the reality is you've sold a million.......

and as far as that Bob Law clip, I know allot of people haven't seen it because it's been available for over a year and only has over 8,000 views

the root of music's problem can be traced back to the year 1987, when the talent perspective was supplanted by the image perspective, that's when the decline started

and when that happened, that's the moment where artists started trending towards gravitating back to past works to emulate rather than continue the authentic approach....

The situation can be restored....

[Edited 3/20/18 19:29pm]

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

You already know what you need to do if you really want change. Excessive yearning for yesteryear is not going to cut it bro....that is just the fact of the matter.

There is nothing wrong with making a critical comment about an artist because no one is above criticism. When it becomes a problem is when you let the artist's name become a red flag waved in your face to the point where you feel uncontrollably compelled to make the exact same comments that you made about them yesterday, last week, last month and last year and will probably continue to do so ten years from now, not realizing that you haven't done anything to meaningfully impact the situation.

I have given you a few suggestions so I don't know what else I can say to get through to you. I can give you one example though.....last month they made a change in the programming at my local radio station I did not appreciate. I emailed the station and within three days got a reply asking for my phone number. The program manager called me back and we talked for around forty minutes. Long story short, I did not get everything I wanted but I did see some changes within a week.

That's how it's done, Bro. But if you want to give up, roll over and play dead that is your perogative.

Btw, I am very familiar with Bob Law. He is a frequent guest on Carl's show. The point you are missing is that Mr. Law doesn't just sit around whining, he acts. Big difference.

Never assume what you think I don't know about.

I only said about waiting 10 years down the road as tongue and cheek.....

the handwriting is on that wall, that 30 year wall that's about to collapse.......

and I have a 3 decades worth of proof to prove it.........

For starters, album sales are reaching an all time low, and this trajectory started during the post-2002.......

and it's not just standard album CD sales, but digital sales are tanking to the core, even as record companies have tried to adapt to the age of the internet......sales last year alone plummeted by almost 25%, and that's with labels trying to accomodate record buyer's by offering the downloads of singles......they can't sell albums like they used to because there not enough quality singles to push the album sale as a whole.........so the root of the so called format evolution isn't that the reason why sales have hit the all time low............

we can take that same trajectory and apply that to these music award shows......

As recent as last month, we had the Grammy Awards, wich is suppsoed to be the most celebrated, most reknowned, most critically acclaimed awards show in recorded music.....and how many people tuned in to watch that show out of a 350 million people who live in this country........a grand total of 19 MILLION VIEWERS...they didn't even crack 20 million viewers, even with all the commercials and hype, and promotion and pre-gala anticipation, ........................now rewind that clock to 1984 when that year's Grammy Awards pulled in over 50 MILLION VIEWERS and that's when the population was 25-30% less than what it is now..........THAT'S how bad it is........

the 2010 Grammys and 2012 Grammys were an anomoly in terms of viewership due to the recent loss of Michael Jacksona and Whitney Houston, and then last year's Grammys paying tribute to Prince....

and before too long, if they can't improve on them stats, they'll mess around and start showing that award show on tape delay, or they may even go the pay-per view route.....

Same thing for the BET awards, the American Music Awards, Soul Train Awards....Billboard awards........all of em

in last year's BET music awards show, they witnessed a 20% drop in viewership from the previous year..........it's happening all across the board.....because of the dropoff and momentum churning decline in creativity and authenticity......

They rarely even promote the Soul Train Music Awards anymore because real R&B has been eviscerated right off the map.

and I guarantee the greatest level of viewership during these shows, especially the Grammys and BET music awards, the level of viewership is at its greatest whenever they are about to present the Liftetime Achievement Award.....people watch to see who's going to be awarded that lifetime AChievement award and then they turn the TV to something else....guarantee that happens and those segments only last 15 minutes tops

The tribute performances "remind us how good it use to be"...but that feeling is fleeting and is the equivalent of a sugar high....it don't last

It ain't like when 40 million plus tuned into Motown 25 and watched that show from beginning to end.......

and wait, I'm being accused of wanting for yesterday...

No that's not me, I'm not wishing for young talents introduced on teh scene to interpolate music from the past to "remind us how good it use to be"..........

throughout this entire thread, my wish is for these young artists to stop relying on that practice and with the encouragement of these record labels and the public to encourage them to cultivate their talent to learn how to make and craft their own music. I'm not talkin about always making something new or something never heard before, because it's not necessarily about that, but to learn how to start from scratch to conceptulize and believe in themselves enough to accomplish where they're being told is no longer possible......

who knows what they could accomplish if they tried it, but they don't know because they dont' know

to always want a young talent to remind us how good it use to be is actually undermining their career in the long term and not truly allowing them to discover their own voice to where you know w/out a question of a doubt there's no interpolation taking place....

and if the authenticity returns back to the forefront, that's gonna fade out allot of the very things people have been complaining about w/the derogatory lyrical content and the like, it would start to phase that on out to where the music will no longer be debased

what if the artists of the 70s was only known for replicating what was done in the 50s, or the artists of the 80s was only known for replicating what was done before in the 60s............we would not experiencing the very music today's artists are being encouraged to gravitate to in order to "remind us how good it used to be".....

I talk about the past the way I do, not to live in it, but to understand why the events of today are occuring the way they are, and when the past is studied, it's easy to determine what's going to lie ahead in the future

in today's music world, if you sell a million, you're celebrated like you've sold 10 million when the reality is you've sold a million.......

and as far as that Bob Law clip, I know allot of people haven't seen it because it's been available for over a year and only has over 8,000 views

the root of music's problem can be traced back to the year 1987, when the talent perspective was supplanted by the image perspective, that's when the decline started

and when that happened, that's the moment where artists started trending towards gravitating back to past works to emulate rather than continue the authentic approach....

The situation can be restored....

[Edited 3/20/18 19:29pm]

If you think for one minute that I'm actually gonna read that wall of words....

Sorry bro but I already read this the first ninety five times you wrote the same thing in this forum for several years now so I know your drill. I'd me more interested to hear any new ideas you have to bring about change?

MotownSubdivision said:

babynoz said:

Your points are well taken, but the thing is, what you say is true of the majority of artists out there regardless if they are on a label or not. Any given label is only going to put their $$$ behind a handful of artists no matter how many they may have on the roster. Guess which ones are going to get the big budget? The ones the public supports. If people turn their back on the likes of the CardiB's of the world, they will have a short shelf life. Back in the day they were called one hit wonders because people didn't have the same level of tolerance for fuckery that they do now.

Seeking a career in the recording industry is similar to any other branch of entertainment. Only a small percentage are ever going to make it big.

Great discussion.

True, only a small percentage of people do make it to the mainstream and an even smaller percentage of people make it big on that level. However, it feels like there are even less than there was before. The reason I say "seem" is because we still have a lot of artists now but with that even less representation. I will always refer back to 2015 when Jill Scott and Tyrese, two pure R&B singers, had albums that hit #1 but there was no trace of their music on pop radio. The same can be said about Janet that same year who hadn't released an album or been in the public light at all for 7 years at that point and had a lot of hype for her comeback. That's three #1 albums, 2 from non-pop singers and 1 from a 49 year old woman, that got no play whatsoever on mainstream pop radio. One might argue that because they don't make pop music or are too old for a pop star, that's why they shouldn't get pop radio attention but the purpose of pop radio is to play what is popular. It shouldn't matter what genre or the age of the artist so long as the music shows itself to be selling. Shoot, Metallica's last album kept Bruno's from reaching #1 over a year ago and outside of that atrocious Grammy performance with Gaga, they haven't gotten any coverage that the person they shared the stage with would get. The music industry at times seems to do things to sabotage itself. It's bad enough they promote fewer acts than they ever have but why ignore those anomolies who are succeeding alongside the young names? The industry today wouldn't allow a 44 year old Tina Turner to explode back on the scene after years of obscurity or promote non-pop acts like the Ohio Players, Boys II Men, Nirvana, Garth Brooks and others to have a presence on pop radio despite proving to be popular. [Edited 3/21/18 7:26am]

There's no doubt that there are multiple issues and ageism is as real as racism and greed, so I am glad you brought it up. It is simply easier and cheaper to produce music electronically than it is to pay musicians. Many of the young atists and their fans are easier to manipulate and the perception of the suits is that the youth drive the market.

The funny thing is that while the younglings do indeed indulge more in pop culture fluff, they do not spend $$ like our generation did. They feel entitled to download everything for free while most of us still buy our music, not to mention that we can afford more concert tix and merchandise so I agree that they sabotage themselves by ignoring our demographic.

People trying to make this about one issue or one artist are worrying about the wrong thing. Like you said, Bruno isn't the problem.

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

I only said about waiting 10 years down the road as tongue and cheek.....

the handwriting is on that wall, that 30 year wall that's about to collapse.......

and I have a 3 decades worth of proof to prove it.........

For starters, album sales are reaching an all time low, and this trajectory started during the post-2002.......

and it's not just standard album CD sales, but digital sales are tanking to the core, even as record companies have tried to adapt to the age of the internet......sales last year alone plummeted by almost 25%, and that's with labels trying to accomodate record buyer's by offering the downloads of singles......they can't sell albums like they used to because there not enough quality singles to push the album sale as a whole.........so the root of the so called format evolution isn't that the reason why sales have hit the all time low............

we can take that same trajectory and apply that to these music award shows......

As recent as last month, we had the Grammy Awards, wich is suppsoed to be the most celebrated, most reknowned, most critically acclaimed awards show in recorded music.....and how many people tuned in to watch that show out of a 350 million people who live in this country........a grand total of 19 MILLION VIEWERS...they didn't even crack 20 million viewers, even with all the commercials and hype, and promotion and pre-gala anticipation, ........................now rewind that clock to 1984 when that year's Grammy Awards pulled in over 50 MILLION VIEWERS and that's when the population was 25-30% less than what it is now..........THAT'S how bad it is........

the 2010 Grammys and 2012 Grammys were an anomoly in terms of viewership due to the recent loss of Michael Jacksona and Whitney Houston, and then last year's Grammys paying tribute to Prince....

and before too long, if they can't improve on them stats, they'll mess around and start showing that award show on tape delay, or they may even go the pay-per view route.....

Same thing for the BET awards, the American Music Awards, Soul Train Awards....Billboard awards........all of em

in last year's BET music awards show, they witnessed a 20% drop in viewership from the previous year..........it's happening all across the board.....because of the dropoff and momentum churning decline in creativity and authenticity......

They rarely even promote the Soul Train Music Awards anymore because real R&B has been eviscerated right off the map.

and I guarantee the greatest level of viewership during these shows, especially the Grammys and BET music awards, the level of viewership is at its greatest whenever they are about to present the Liftetime Achievement Award.....people watch to see who's going to be awarded that lifetime AChievement award and then they turn the TV to something else....guarantee that happens and those segments only last 15 minutes tops

The tribute performances "remind us how good it use to be"...but that feeling is fleeting and is the equivalent of a sugar high....it don't last

It ain't like when 40 million plus tuned into Motown 25 and watched that show from beginning to end.......

and wait, I'm being accused of wanting for yesterday...

No that's not me, I'm not wishing for young talents introduced on teh scene to interpolate music from the past to "remind us how good it use to be"..........

throughout this entire thread, my wish is for these young artists to stop relying on that practice and with the encouragement of these record labels and the public to encourage them to cultivate their talent to learn how to make and craft their own music. I'm not talkin about always making something new or something never heard before, because it's not necessarily about that, but to learn how to start from scratch to conceptulize and believe in themselves enough to accomplish where they're being told is no longer possible......

who knows what they could accomplish if they tried it, but they don't know because they dont' know

to always want a young talent to remind us how good it use to be is actually undermining their career in the long term and not truly allowing them to discover their own voice to where you know w/out a question of a doubt there's no interpolation taking place....

and if the authenticity returns back to the forefront, that's gonna fade out allot of the very things people have been complaining about w/the derogatory lyrical content and the like, it would start to phase that on out to where the music will no longer be debased

what if the artists of the 70s was only known for replicating what was done in the 50s, or the artists of the 80s was only known for replicating what was done before in the 60s............we would not experiencing the very music today's artists are being encouraged to gravitate to in order to "remind us how good it used to be".....

I talk about the past the way I do, not to live in it, but to understand why the events of today are occuring the way they are, and when the past is studied, it's easy to determine what's going to lie ahead in the future

in today's music world, if you sell a million, you're celebrated like you've sold 10 million when the reality is you've sold a million.......

and as far as that Bob Law clip, I know allot of people haven't seen it because it's been available for over a year and only has over 8,000 views

the root of music's problem can be traced back to the year 1987, when the talent perspective was supplanted by the image perspective, that's when the decline started

and when that happened, that's the moment where artists started trending towards gravitating back to past works to emulate rather than continue the authentic approach....

The situation can be restored....

[Edited 3/20/18 19:29pm]

If you think for one minute that I'm actually gonna read that wall of words....

Sorry bro but I already read this the first ninety five times you wrote the same thing in this forum for several years now so I know your drill. I'd me more interested to hear any new ideas you have to bring about change?

it's all good....

it may seem like a wall of words becuase it's covering a 30 year problem......

as in recent time whenever the issue comes up, rather it's involving this performer or other performers.......the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them....it's a simple principle that needs no extra layers....and once that starts happening, if it does, then everything else will start to fall in place and things can improve for the better, and more importantly, the long run

and who knows, if one person followed that principle and saw it through, he or she may crack the code, and may discover a whole nother frontier and set the stage for a new genre of music to originate to where people would flock to it.

if a stipulation came out today in 2018 saying that neither sampling or interpolating was allowed for one year JUST to see what the reaction would be, it would be all over no sooner than making the announcement that rule is in effect. It would be a wrap. Panic would hit like a thunderbolt

The age of sampling, particularly with urban music proliferated because those artists whose music was being sampling was not given opportunity to establish their own songrights........if they were able to in the grand scheme of things, the age of sampling would have been much difficult to occur. The control of those songrights were primarily in the hands of the music publisher or the record company, and not the artist

this is how bad it's gotten........

I saw a comment on youtube of a MCHAMMER fan who accused Rick James of stealing his music because he had heard Super Freak for the very first time when he made the comment and that song reminding him of Hammer's You CAn't Touch This

now how in the world did Rick James steal Hammer's music when Super Freak came out in 1991 and You Can't Touch This hit 9 years later in 1990......when he was told by a Rick James fan that it was Hammer sampled Rick James as well as Prince/Jackson Five/Chi-Lites, that young cat argued back and forth

I just believe that it is possible and that it can be done

I'm a leave this subject alone

now how in the world did Rick James steal Hammer's music when Super Freak came out in 1991 and You Can't Touch This hit 9 years later in 1990.

You might want to correct this

Scorp said

Someone did actually read my post!!!

PANDURITO said:

now how in the world did Rick James steal Hammer's music when Super Freak came out in 1991 and You Can't Touch This hit 9 years later in 1990.

You might want to correct this

typo 81

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

If you think for one minute that I'm actually gonna read that wall of words....

Sorry bro but I already read this the first ninety five times you wrote the same thing in this forum for several years now so I know your drill. I'd me more interested to hear any new ideas you have to bring about change?

it's all good....

it may seem like a wall of words becuase it's covering a 30 year problem......

as in recent time whenever the issue comes up, rather it's involving this performer or other performers.......the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them....it's a simple principle that needs no extra layers....and once that starts happening, if it does, then everything else will start to fall in place and things can improve for the better, and more importantly, the long run

and who knows, if one person followed that principle and saw it through, he or she may crack the code, and may discover a whole nother frontier and set the stage for a new genre of music to originate to where people would flock to it.

if a stipulation came out today in 2018 saying that neither sampling or interpolating was allowed for one year JUST to see what the reaction would be, it would be all over no sooner than making the announcement that rule is in effect. It would be a wrap. Panic would hit like a thunderbolt

The age of sampling, particularly with urban music proliferated because those artists whose music was being sampling was not given opportunity to establish their own songrights........if they were able to in the grand scheme of things, the age of sampling would have been much difficult to occur. The control of those songrights were primarily in the hands of the music publisher or the record company, and not the artist

this is how bad it's gotten........

I saw a comment on youtube of a MCHAMMER fan who accused Rick James of stealing his music because he had heard Super Freak for the very first time when he made the comment and that song reminding him of Hammer's You CAn't Touch This

now how in the world did Rick James steal Hammer's music when Super Freak came out in 1991 and You Can't Touch This hit 9 years later in 1990......when he was told by a Rick James fan that it was Hammer sampled Rick James as well as Prince/Jackson Five/Chi-Lites, that young cat argued back and forth

I just believe that it is possible and that it can be done

I'm a leave this subject alone

In other words, nothing new to offer in terms of ideas about what we should do on our end to force the record companies to support and encourage artists that are already out there doing what you are speaking about.

Fair enough, nice chatting with ya.

MotownSubdivision said:

babynoz said:

There's no doubt that there are multiple issues and ageism is as real as racism and greed, so I am glad you brought it up. It is simply easier and cheaper to produce music electronically than it is to pay musicians. Many of the young atists and their fans are easier to manipulate and the perception of the suits is that the youth drive the market.

The funny thing is that while the younglings do indeed indulge more in pop culture fluff, they do not spend $$ like our generation did. They feel entitled to download everything for free while most of us still buy our music, not to mention that we can afford more concert tix and merchandise so I agree that they sabotage themselves by ignoring our demographic.

People trying to make this about one issue or one artist are worrying about the wrong thing. Like you said, Bruno isn't the problem.

If by "our" you're including me, I'm 24 so I'm actually a part of the current gen of youth. I appreciate the compliment While we've responsible for the trash that is constantly peddled to us on the radio and in all mainstream fronts, at the same time, the variety that was promoted during your Ben's time isn't being shown to us. We got the internet to do our own research but despite having that, it's made little difference. That said, I know many people personally and have seen even more online who share my opinion on today's music. There does exist a disconnect that thanks to the internet is easier to observe. No telling on if the platform were publicly available back in the day, the same thing would be noticed but I don't see why that would be the case. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel and it seems that more people are starting to feel the splinters in their hands.

24? Wow.....enjoy! I know I did...

You have a point though. There is an increasing number of younger folk who aren't feeling a lot of the current music.

I'm not sure what u guys expect from "current" music when the so called producers are nothng more than button pushers who are extremely limited in actually making and composing real music.

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

it's all good....

it may seem like a wall of words becuase it's covering a 30 year problem......

as in recent time whenever the issue comes up, rather it's involving this performer or other performers.......the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them....it's a simple principle that needs no extra layers....and once that starts happening, if it does, then everything else will start to fall in place and things can improve for the better, and more importantly, the long run

and who knows, if one person followed that principle and saw it through, he or she may crack the code, and may discover a whole nother frontier and set the stage for a new genre of music to originate to where people would flock to it.

if a stipulation came out today in 2018 saying that neither sampling or interpolating was allowed for one year JUST to see what the reaction would be, it would be all over no sooner than making the announcement that rule is in effect. It would be a wrap. Panic would hit like a thunderbolt

The age of sampling, particularly with urban music proliferated because those artists whose music was being sampling was not given opportunity to establish their own songrights........if they were able to in the grand scheme of things, the age of sampling would have been much difficult to occur. The control of those songrights were primarily in the hands of the music publisher or the record company, and not the artist

this is how bad it's gotten........

I saw a comment on youtube of a MCHAMMER fan who accused Rick James of stealing his music because he had heard Super Freak for the very first time when he made the comment and that song reminding him of Hammer's You CAn't Touch This

now how in the world did Rick James steal Hammer's music when Super Freak came out in 1991 and You Can't Touch This hit 9 years later in 1990......when he was told by a Rick James fan that it was Hammer sampled Rick James as well as Prince/Jackson Five/Chi-Lites, that young cat argued back and forth

I just believe that it is possible and that it can be done

I'm a leave this subject alone

In other words, nothing new to offer in terms of ideas about what we should do on our end to force the record companies to support and encourage artists that are already out there doing what you are speaking about.

Fair enough, nice chatting with ya.

quoting from what was mentioned earlier....

the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them

it's both realms......

Scorp said:

the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them

I don't understand all of this "I don't like your Top 40 music. So I want the labels to promote some music style from 50 years ago so the the mainstream will like what I like". What's the big deal? Let people listen to whatever they want to enjoy. It's not your job to police what people listen to. If people want to listen to Cardi B, Rae Sremmurd, & Sam Smith, they have the right to do so without you old fashioned folks saying they should listen to something else or that their music is lame. If you want to listen to old music, then you buy it. It still exists. The general public is never going back to whatever sound that was popular in the past. Technology killed all of that. People decades ago didn't have as much choices for entertainment, so they had nothing better to do than to practice an instrument all day. There's software like Reason that people can make music with now. Today, there's video games, internet, social media, DVD/Blu Ray, etc. There's hundreds of TV channels now, when in the past there were the 3 major networks, PBS and maybe a few local channels on UHF. That's also one of the reasons buying music is not as important as with older generations. They don't have to buy it to listen to it, just go on Youtube and listen to it for free. In a lot of cases with new & old music, the entire albums are on there, under the Topic for a particular act like this. Those aren't fan uploads either. Some artists VEVO channels also have entire albums or a lot of songs from a particular album as audio and lyric videos, not just regular music videos.

Graycap23 said:

I'm not sure what u guys expect from "current" music when the so called producers are nothng more than button pushers who are extremely limited in actually making and composing real music.

Thta's very true...

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them

I don't understand all of this "I don't like your Top 40 music. So I want the labels to promote some music style from 50 years ago so the the mainstream will like what I like". What's the big deal? Let people listen to whatever they want to enjoy. It's not your job to police what people listen to. If people want to listen to Cardi B, Rae Sremmurd, & Sam Smith, they have the right to do so without you old fashioned folks saying they should listen to something else or that their music is lame. If you want to listen to old music, then you buy it. It still exists. The general public is never going back to whatever sound that was popular in the past. Technology killed all of that. People decades ago didn't have as much choices for entertainment, so they had nothing better to do than to practice an instrument all day. There's software like Reason that people can make music with now. Today, there's video games, internet, social media, DVD/Blu Ray, etc. There's hundreds of TV channels now, when in the past there were the 3 major networks, PBS and maybe a few local channels on UHF. That's also one of the reasons buying music is not as important as with older generations. They don't have to buy it to listen to it, just go on Youtube and listen to it for free. In a lot of cases with new & old music, the entire albums are on there, under the Topic for a particular act like this. Those aren't fan uploads either. Some artists VEVO channels also have entire albums or a lot of songs from a particular album as audio and lyric videos, not just regular music videos.

what are you talkin about policing?.....

if you think what I'm saying is bad, try pulling up the neverendless articles by music critics, radio personalities, and bloggers who are all saying the same thing......

You said that the general public is never going back to whatever sound that was popular in the past but people from all walks are saying the reason they enjoy this artists music is for that exact reason...so which one is it...

when TV, particularly when color TV debuted on the scene and people were watching Milton Berle's show, Nat King Cole's show, Ed Sullivan show, and the American BAndstands of the world, people were in the same position where they were able to watch their favorite performers w/out buying the music, but they still bought records...people were listening to jukeboxes and were able to hear any song they wanted, the jukebox of the 50s and 60s was the equivalent of Youtube today, and what's crazy, people had to pay money to hear their favorite song at that moment, and they STILL bought the record

when MTV debuted on teh scene and all those music video shows became popular (Friday Night Videos)...the first 24 hour music station playing music videos non-stop, fans of MTV could watcha and see their favorite performer around the clock and they STILL bought records......cable stations were available too

Video games were out too, Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision, the first Nintendo....and it didn't deter people from buying music.....all that didn't stop people from buying Thriller and Purple Rain or Born In the USA, or Like a Virgin, or Can't Slow Down

as far as being old fashioned, I've enjoyed music from every decade all the way up to the 2000s.....

Somebody out there is gonna crack the code, and the stars will line up for that person whomever it may be....I believe that w/everything....despite the oddds or conventional wisdom....

Peace

Scorp said:

You said that the general public is never going back to whatever sound that was popular in the past but people from all walks are saying the reason they enjoy this artists music is for that exact reason...so which one is it...

One artist (Bruno Mars) being popular is no different than The Stray Cats being popular in the early 1980s and The Blues Brothers & Sha Na Na in the 1970s. It didn't make the mainstream start buying a bunch of rockabilly records that made the upper parts of the charts.

Scorp said:

when TV, particularly when color TV debuted on the scene and people were watching Milton Berle's show, Nat King Cole's show, Ed Sullivan show, and the American Bandstands of the world, people were in the same position where they were able to watch their favorite performers w/out buying the music, but they still bought records...people were listening to jukeboxes and were able to hear any song they wanted, the jukebox of the 50s and 60s was the equivalent of Youtube today, and what's crazy, people had to pay money to hear their favorite song at that moment, and they STILL bought the record

when MTV debuted on teh scene and all those music video shows became popular (Friday Night Videos)...the first 24 hour music station playing music videos non-stop, fans of MTV could watcha and see their favorite performer around the clock and they STILL bought records......cable stations were available too

There was no internet or streaming, so people had no choice but to buy records. Many people back then also had stereo systems & boomboxes & walkmans, where you needed to buy records & tapes to play on them. That is not the case today. Car manufactuers are not putting CD/tape players in their cars now as a default. Most record stores have closed down, and so have places that sell audio equipment. Department stores used to sell them too. Places like Wal-Mart only carry compilations and whatever is on the Top 10 in Billboard and then it's the clean versions. It's been reported recently that Best Buy is going to stop selling CDs. Since many of the most popular albums today are rap artists, and the audience usually want the CD with the parential advisory sticker, not the edited version. As I said technology killed that. Like "video killed the radio star".

When CDs came out, the labels eventually killed the 45 single. First it was the cassette single, then the CD single and then singles were pretty much eliminated altogether other than dance 12" singles for techno & house music remixes. So people were forced to buy albums in which acts decided to fill the 80 minutes when pre-CD albums averaged 30-45 minutes. CDs were also priced higher than records & tapes had been, so a lot of people (like teens) couldn't afford to buy them as much as before CDs were invented. Even in the past not everyone bought albums, they bought 45s because they were cheap and some only wanted the song on the radio, not the album. This is why Greatest Hits/Best Of albums were popular. Many people did not care about the rest of the material. The Eagles biggest selling album is a Greatest Hits. The general public is never going back to buying CDs, like they never went back to reel-to-reel & 8-track tapes. Even other types of stores are going out of business because of the internet like Radio Shack & Toys R Us. Some people are buying vinyl now, but since they average $20-$50 each, most people are not going to spend that much for 1 album. Most of the general public don't own a record player in the first place.

Scorp said:

what are you talkin about policing?.....

if you think what I'm saying is bad, try pulling up the neverendless articles by music critics, radio personalities, and bloggers who are all saying the same thing.....

Music critics don't buy records, nor make anything a hit. Anyway I'm pretty sure for every negative review you're talking about, I can find people who like it. Going on Youtube and seeing the views for Justin Bieber or DJ Khaled cancels out anything the critics say. A lot of people on TV and the media talk negatively about Trump, yet he got elected. Critics generally don't like superhero movies, but guess what, they make a lot of money. They don't like reality TV shows, but they've been popular for years now. Reality is how the Kardashian girls became famous & millionaires. So what critics think don't mean anything when the mainstream audience thinks something else and supports whatever it is the critics & internet trolls speak negatively about.

It's always problematic when someone rewrites history to prove a point. Music dogma is one of the worst, and often it's the least creative people attempting to set us all straight with facts. Nothing new.

Graycap23 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm not sure what u guys expect from "current" music when the so called producers are nothng more than button pushers who are extremely limited in actually making and composing real music.

It's that very reason why Bruno stands out.

Stands out? His music is completely devoid of feeling or originality.

Paint by numbers stands out....4 the wrong reasons.

MotownSubdivision said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm not sure what u guys expect from "current" music when the so called producers are nothng more than button pushers who are extremely limited in actually making and composing real music.

It's that very reason why Bruno stands out.

Stands out? His music is completely devoid of feeling or originality.

Paint by numbers stands out....4 the wrong reasons.
That's not what standing out means.

Graycap23 said:

Funny that when Bruno Mars won his ALBUM OF THE YEAR Grammy, he thanked Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Teddy Riley and Babyface.

What an album it would have been if he had worked with the actual guys who made the sound. They are all still active writers.

Cinny said:

Funny that when Bruno Mars won his ALBUM OF THE YEAR Grammy, he thanked Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Teddy Riley and Babyface.

What an album it would have been if he had worked with the actual guys who made the sound. They are all still active writers.

But he did work with Babyface for this album--he co-wrote and co-produced one of the tracks on this album.

Bruno has been working on a new album with JJ & TL...

NaughtyKitty said:

Cinny said:

Funny that when Bruno Mars won his ALBUM OF THE YEAR Grammy, he thanked Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Teddy Riley and Babyface.

What an album it would have been if he had worked with the actual guys who made the sound. They are all still active writers.

But he did work with Babyface for this album--he co-wrote and co-produced one of the tracks on this album.

"Too Good To Say Goodbye" one track at the end of the album that wasn't a single. I am glad Babyface had part in it, but you know what I mean about the rest of the album. I wonder if Jimmy Jam would have brought out the SP-1200

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

In other words, nothing new to offer in terms of ideas about what we should do on our end to force the record companies to support and encourage artists that are already out there doing what you are speaking about.

Fair enough, nice chatting with ya.

quoting from what was mentioned earlier....

the main idea is these young performers being encouraged to create their own music w/the backing of their record labels and the recording buying public that gravitates to them

it's both realms......

It is most importanly. like what Scorp is trying to say, and what babynoz agrees upon, the simple point of putting your cash into what you want to support. Like Prince was trying to enncourage once he came hip to the fact--be independent. Be creative. Negotiate fair contracts with record companies when you need to--go hard if you can, and sell independently whenever you can. The idea is kind of old, basic, and simple. The challenging part is the artist finding where the best support exists, and that knowledge can be obfuscated in the large music-biz game. Show up where the artists show up and show them the love. Give them the love. Give THE ARTIST your cash!

>

Bruno appears to have tapped into the big-biz network, and has teams of support within that realm, so I guess his thing is working for him? As far as he the individual repping "Black" music forms, I think he's doing alright, & if he passes his success back to the community in different ways It'd be appreciated and Bro's & Sis's would give him less of a hard time.