mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Let's be honest. Do you think if Usher or Chris Brown did Uptown Funk, it would've been a hit? Bruno has a goofy, harmless persona that allows him to straddle the line between fun and corny. Pharrell had a sumilar success with Happy, but that song became a hit because it was tied to a successful animated movie.

Are you sure that artists even artists like Beyonce, Usher, Chris Brown, and Rihanna have complete control over the type of music they put out? Didn't Prince go to battle with Warner because they controlled the format and frquency of his output. They outright rejected the original format of SOTT. Didn't Clive Davis try to give Prince the Carlos Santana treatment for Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic?

You don't think the labels are guiding and pushing these artists to a certain styles and formats to maximize sales. Why did late Chris Cornell out of no where do an RnB album with Timbaland that was released by Sony? With the success of Uptown Funk, I have no doubt that the Atlantic executives(which is under Warner Music Group) told Bruno to keep doing that old school sound because its hot right now. And when its not hot, he will go onto to something else. How is that any different than Beyonce, Usher, or Chris Brown doing EDM or pop to maximize their sales?

Because so few artists get major backing from labels, they are being forced to chase after hits wherever they may be. The lack of diversity in the type of artists and music being supported is strangling creativity. Bruno Mars is not the problem, but his success is symptom of a larger problem.

An artist getting massive success and accolades for rigidly copying an old sound is not a good trend.

So these pop stars who make ratchet trap music, you think they make more meaningful music than Bruno? You think they deserve "massive success" for making garbage music? Because that is what you are implying. Bruno Mars is not a genius but he makes much better pop music than his peers, its quality (whether he is copying a old sound or not).

You keep insisting that these labels force these particular artists to make a certain type of music but this is naive thinking because the artists mentioned are veterans and have leverage to make the type of music that they want at this point in their careers. These are not "new" artists. You think the record labels told Beyonce to exploit her marital issues to sell records? I don't believe that. She chose to do that. You keep minimizing the fault of these seasoned pop stars who also play a role in the type of music they make. These pop stars are not real artists, they follow trends and chase the radio instead of making quality music. Again, Bruno is not a innovator but he makes quality pop music and I can't hate on him for doing something his peers fail to do.

Regarding Usher, Usher has sold way more records than Bruno Mars making R&B music (this is the irony in you bringing up Usher and its a mute point). These labels will and HAVE backed Black singers who make R&B, we have evidence of this so you can't say it doesn't happen.

The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his R&B base and began making trap music (thats nobody's fault but his, he could have continued to making R&B music if he wanted too). You don't go making R&B music for 5 albums and then suddenly abandon it (some responsibility needs to be placed on these artists, its not completely ALL the record labels fault)Usher and Chris Brown are passed their peaks and hit making days so regardless of what music they make it would not have been a smash like Uptown Funk.

A couple of years ago the industry and radio was backing Frank Ocean (an alternative R&B singer) and he won a couple of Grammy's. I remember the org raved and hyped Frank during this period and still till this day I don't get the hoopla over him and I find him to be overrated. Why didn't you all make these same complaints about the lack of R&B in the mainstream when Frank was hot?

It feels like you all are making excuses because you all don't like the fact that Bruno is inspired by a lot of the artists that you listen too. Its actually sad because you all should be lifting him up instead of putting him down. He is doing something that these current pop stars fail to do which is make quality pop music. We NEED more pop stars like Bruno. He will always have my respect.

You still didn't answer my question on JT? Black people were raving about him and you all were too and all that white man does is appropiate Black culture BUT its okay because he is White, right? JT shitted on Prince and mocked him when he was alive. Despite that JT had the audacity to play his new album at PAISLEY PARK and I did not see not one thread on the org about that B.S BUT everyone has time to bash Bruno Mars, a artist who ALWAYS gives credit to his influences, INCLUDING Prince.

Again, I can't take these opinions seriously. If you are going to call Bruno Mars a cultural appropiator or criticize him for "copying" R&B and old sounds then we got to go WAY back and call everyone out. Call Elvis and Jt out (who you all love defending on this site but then turn around and bash Bruno Mars )

.

Hey, MJC!! Missed ya!

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Let's be honest. Do you think if Usher or Chris Brown did Uptown Funk, it would've been a hit? Bruno has a goofy, harmless persona that allows him to straddle the line between fun and corny. Pharrell had a sumilar success with Happy, but that song became a hit because it was tied to a successful animated movie.

Are you sure that artists even artists like Beyonce, Usher, Chris Brown, and Rihanna have complete control over the type of music they put out? Didn't Prince go to battle with Warner because they controlled the format and frquency of his output. They outright rejected the original format of SOTT. Didn't Clive Davis try to give Prince the Carlos Santana treatment for Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic?

You don't think the labels are guiding and pushing these artists to a certain styles and formats to maximize sales. Why did late Chris Cornell out of no where do an RnB album with Timbaland that was released by Sony? With the success of Uptown Funk, I have no doubt that the Atlantic executives(which is under Warner Music Group) told Bruno to keep doing that old school sound because its hot right now. And when its not hot, he will go onto to something else. How is that any different than Beyonce, Usher, or Chris Brown doing EDM or pop to maximize their sales?

Because so few artists get major backing from labels, they are being forced to chase after hits wherever they may be. The lack of diversity in the type of artists and music being supported is strangling creativity. Bruno Mars is not the problem, but his success is symptom of a larger problem.

An artist getting massive success and accolades for rigidly copying an old sound is not a good trend.

So these pop stars who make ratchet trap music, you think they make more meaningful music than Bruno? You think they deserve "massive success" for making garbage music? Because that is what you are implying. Bruno Mars is not a genius but he makes much better pop music than his peers, its quality (whether he is copying a old sound or not).

You keep insisting that these labels force these particular artists to make a certain type of music but this is naive thinking because the artists mentioned are veterans and have leverage to make the type of music that they want at this point in their careers. These are not "new" artists. You think the record labels told Beyonce to exploit her marital issues to sell records? I don't believe that. She chose to do that. You keep minimizing the fault of these seasoned pop stars who also play a role in the type of music they make. These pop stars are not real artists, they follow trends and chase the radio instead of making quality music. Again, Bruno is not a innovator but he makes quality pop music and I can't hate on him for doing something his peers fail to do.

Regarding Usher, Usher has sold way more records than Bruno Mars making R&B music (this is the irony in you bringing up Usher and its a mute point). These labels will and HAVE backed Black singers who make R&B, we have evidence of this so you can't say it doesn't happen.

The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his R&B base and began making trap music (thats nobody's fault but his, he could have continued to making R&B music if he wanted too). You don't go making R&B music for 5 albums and then suddenly abandon it (some responsibility needs to be placed on these artists, its not completely ALL the record labels fault)Usher and Chris Brown are passed their peaks and hit making days so regardless of what music they make it would not have been a smash like Uptown Funk.

A couple of years ago the industry and radio was backing Frank Ocean (an alternative R&B singer) and he won a couple of Grammy's. I remember the org raved and hyped Frank during this period and still till this day I don't get the hoopla over him and I find him to be overrated. Why didn't you all make these same complaints about the lack of R&B in the mainstream when Frank was hot?

It feels like you all are making excuses because you all don't like the fact that Bruno is inspired by a lot of the artists that you listen too. Its actually sad because you all should be lifting him up instead of putting him down. He is doing something that these current pop stars fail to do which is make quality pop music. We NEED more pop stars like Bruno. He will always have my respect.

You still didn't answer my question on JT? Black people were raving about him and you all were too and all that white man does is appropiate Black culture BUT its okay because he is White, right? JT shitted on Prince and mocked him when he was alive. Despite that JT had the audacity to play his new album at PAISLEY PARK and I did not see not one thread on the org about that B.S BUT everyone has time to bash Bruno Mars, a artist who ALWAYS gives credit to his influences, INCLUDING Prince.

Again, I can't take these opinions seriously. If you are going to call Bruno Mars a cultural appropiator or criticize him for "copying" R&B and old sounds then we got to go WAY back and call everyone out. Call Elvis and Jt out (who you all love defending on this site but then turn around and bash Bruno Mars )

this. End of discussion.

People keep trying to make this about culture or industry-rooted colorism. It's about hating Bruno Mars. Plain and simple. These cringe ass leftists don't know what it's like to be told that you have to do only one style of music because your heritage doesn't allow much range. What a load of BS. All the legends from Stevie Wonder to Jimmy Jam to Babyface to Diana Ross to Janet have acknowledged the talent and artistry of the Brunz and their opinion is much more qualified, much more appreciated than that of a butthurt racist SJW by the name of Sensei. They can all go to hell. Bruno keeps breaking records and dominating the world while the haters are gonna hate.v

And also, people mentioning other black artists doing funk/R&B with less success than Bruno... since when are we comparing local US artists like them (Janelle, Erykah, Miguel) with a worldwide superstar like Bruno? Bruno has been famous in the 5 continents since 2010. He's a big worldwide name. Don't blame it on race or ethnicity, it's just been THAT way. And no one writes catchier hooks than him in the buisness today so there's that.

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Let's be honest. Do you think if Usher or Chris Brown did Uptown Funk, it would've been a hit? Bruno has a goofy, harmless persona that allows him to straddle the line between fun and corny. Pharrell had a sumilar success with Happy, but that song became a hit because it was tied to a successful animated movie.

Are you sure that artists even artists like Beyonce, Usher, Chris Brown, and Rihanna have complete control over the type of music they put out? Didn't Prince go to battle with Warner because they controlled the format and frquency of his output. They outright rejected the original format of SOTT. Didn't Clive Davis try to give Prince the Carlos Santana treatment for Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic?

You don't think the labels are guiding and pushing these artists to a certain styles and formats to maximize sales. Why did late Chris Cornell out of no where do an RnB album with Timbaland that was released by Sony? With the success of Uptown Funk, I have no doubt that the Atlantic executives(which is under Warner Music Group) told Bruno to keep doing that old school sound because its hot right now. And when its not hot, he will go onto to something else. How is that any different than Beyonce, Usher, or Chris Brown doing EDM or pop to maximize their sales?

Because so few artists get major backing from labels, they are being forced to chase after hits wherever they may be. The lack of diversity in the type of artists and music being supported is strangling creativity. Bruno Mars is not the problem, but his success is symptom of a larger problem.

An artist getting massive success and accolades for rigidly copying an old sound is not a good trend.

So these pop stars who make ratchet trap music, you think they make more meaningful music than Bruno? You think they deserve "massive success" for making garbage music? Because that is what you are implying. Bruno Mars is not a genius but he makes much better pop music than his peers, its quality (whether he is copying a old sound or not).

You keep insisting that these labels force these particular artists to make a certain type of music but this is naive thinking because the artists mentioned are veterans and have leverage to make the type of music that they want at this point in their careers. These are not "new" artists. You think the record labels told Beyonce to exploit her marital issues to sell records? I don't believe that. She chose to do that. You keep minimizing the fault of these seasoned pop stars who also play a role in the type of music they make. These pop stars are not real artists, they follow trends and chase the radio instead of making quality music. Again, Bruno is not a innovator but he makes quality pop music and I can't hate on him for doing something his peers fail to do.

Regarding Usher, Usher has sold way more records than Bruno Mars making R&B music (this is the irony in you bringing up Usher and its a mute point). These labels will and HAVE backed Black singers who make R&B, we have evidence of this so you can't say it doesn't happen.

The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his R&B base and began making trap music (thats nobody's fault but his, he could have continued to making R&B music if he wanted too). You don't go making R&B music for 5 albums and then suddenly abandon it (some responsibility needs to be placed on these artists, its not completely ALL the record labels fault)Usher and Chris Brown are passed their peaks and hit making days so regardless of what music they make it would not have been a smash like Uptown Funk.

A couple of years ago the industry and radio was backing Frank Ocean (an alternative R&B singer) and he won a couple of Grammy's. I remember the org raved and hyped Frank during this period and still till this day I don't get the hoopla over him and I find him to be overrated. Why didn't you all make these same complaints about the lack of R&B in the mainstream when Frank was hot?

It feels like you all are making excuses because you all don't like the fact that Bruno is inspired by a lot of the artists that you listen too. Its actually sad because you all should be lifting him up instead of putting him down. He is doing something that these current pop stars fail to do which is make quality pop music. We NEED more pop stars like Bruno. He will always have my respect.

You still didn't answer my question on JT? Black people were raving about him and you all were too and all that white man does is appropiate Black culture BUT its okay because he is White, right? JT shitted on Prince and mocked him when he was alive. Despite that JT had the audacity to play his new album at PAISLEY PARK and I did not see not one thread on the org about that B.S BUT everyone has time to bash Bruno Mars, a artist who ALWAYS gives credit to his influences, INCLUDING Prince.

Again, I can't take these opinions seriously. If you are going to call Bruno Mars a cultural appropiator or criticize him for "copying" R&B and old sounds then we got to go WAY back and call everyone out. Call Elvis and Jt out (who you all love defending on this site but then turn around and bash Bruno Mars )

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

paisleypark4 said:

Right, not everything is about race bias. Some things just don't happen for others and it is okay to take it as a loss. Shit happens. People up in their feelings but cant see the whole picture. Chris Brown's "Heartbreak" for example obviously had millons pushed into it. He released 5 professional videos before the album even was released...millions of views on youtube. The album only went gold due to sales. A stifling run compared to his album "X". Sometime it just doesnt work if no one is listening no matter how much money is in the machine.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to say that black artists aren't promoted when hip hop has been one of the most popular genres for decades and most popular rappers in the US are black. Also there's many fans of the NBA and there's a lot of black basketball players. R&B as a genre has never really been mainstream popular. During its entire history, a small percentage of R&B acts, including white ones, have ever reached mainstream success. Teddy Pendergrass never really had pop hits, other than 2 or 3 Harold Melvin songs, but he's well know to older R&B fans. The Whispers have a lot of R&B hits but 1 big pop hit Rock Steady. The baby boomers gravitated towards rock n roll. The boomer era rock press like Rolling Stone & Creem helped to make rock acts important, especially ones who wrote their own songs. For the most part, popular R&B/soul acts didn't self-write and R&B was considered a singles genre, not an albums genre like the rock press made classic rock out to be. When they make lists of the best albums in history, Sgt. Pepper is almost guaranteed to be somewhere near the top, but few R&B albums are listed, usually Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, & What's Going On by Marvin Gaye. Basically ones who had crossover success and had some kind of social message. Before rock fans, the general public did not care if Bing Crosby, The Andrews Sisters, or Frank Sinatra wrote their own songs. Because that was not how the music business operated then. Still today, people still consider acts who write their own stuff more important than those who don't. Rap fans make a big deal about rappers who use "ghostwriters".

R&B will never be seen as important as rock. Rock music has been way more documented than R&B. There's got to be over a thousand books about The Beatles over the years, and they're still getting written, although I don't know what can be said that hasn't been already. You can find books about New Order/Joy Division but not about the Isley Brothers and the Isleys have been around since the 1950s. There's also the case that the rock press tend to view R&B groups who danced & wore matching suits as old "showbiz" and not relevant to them. It's usually the winners who write history, so rock music could be considered the winner and R&B the loser. There wasn't really any magazines in the US like Rolling Stone about R&B, until maybe the 1990s with Vibe and that started in the hip hop and New Jack Swing era. Before that, it was Right On!, Black Beat, Soul Teen, & Rock n Soul and they were teen based. A lot of Jackson 5, DeBarge, Sylvers, & New Edition pictures. Like the black versions of Tiger Beat. The more well known R&B acts got featured in Ebony & Jet, but the articles weren't usually about music. Ebony would have photo shoots of the singers homes and about so and so getting married. I think in general R&B fans decades ago mostly cared about the records, when rock fans wanted interviews with Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Pink Floyd, & Eric Clapton and what they thought about things. So they were the audience who bought Creem magazine. Popular classic rock acts were also more likely to have their concerts filmed than R&B/soul/funk acts, even though in the 1970s there wasn't much of a home video market. Rolling Stone considers hip hop important today and over the last few years several rap acts have been inducted to the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame, when Chic has been nominated around 10 times and haven't gotten in. They're considered disco, so that likely hurts their chances. So the Hall is similar to the mainstream, in that hip hop replaced rock music in popularity. Probably when the boomers still at Rolling Stone are not around anymore, more rappers will be inducted each year. They've mostly ignored heavy metal & prog rock.

BBD says it all in the perplexity that was soon to come even when they did make some cool jams

even when they really don't know what happened to R&B, then really do know in the grand scheme of things

because when Bell, Biv, Devoe formed BBD, what was the very first thing they said about their music and how they wanted it to be defined.

"HIP HOP MENTAL, SMOOTHED OUT ON THE R&B TIP, WITH A POP APPEAL TO".....

This perfectly illustrated how R&B was used as the foundation to fuel the next generation of urban sound while at the same time R&B was undermined, undermined because it was no longer allowed to exist in fullness, standing on its own, and that's when it became a secondary presence , thus, R&B no longer was able to stand in its rightful place any longer by the luminaries who contributed to its everlasting influence.

But even then this was all by design........

But a funny thing happened, the new age artists of that time found themselves reverting back to the past and sampling/interpolating the works from what was done before to help define their sound…….where as in decades prior, artists were not travelling back in time because culture was present through decades and decades of cultivation.

The moment you have to travel back in time and try to recreate sounds from yesteryear, what that really means is that culture has been lost, even when you’re trying to brand your own

We have to consider what truly happened to it in order to understand why we are seeing what is happening in the current age.

Black music was at its strongest during the late 60s, 70s, and up to the mid 80s because you had black people who owned and operated their own radio stations across the country, there were black radio stations in abundance that represented the community and supported the artists who were debuting on the scene by featuring their music. The owners of those stations hired talent directly associated with the neighborhood and the community had a direct role in the success of those stations with pledge contributions and the like. Those stations promoted talent in the way where the focus on sales weren’t as pertinent as promoting a sense of excellence and setting that standard. Direct relation with the audience was commonplace where people could call in and request any song they wanted to listen to. It didn’t matter if it was a new song or a classic jam from the past, those DJ’s would play it w/no questions asked. There was more variety where the full gamut of music was played.

All that was wiped away step by step as corporate entities bought many of those locally owned stations w/the goal of driving up profit by promoting Hip-Hop as the single sound of choice, that broke down the connection between station and community, then you add another element Program Managers white and black came up w/the concept of selecting pre-recording play list for their show hosts to play where you would hear the same song almost every single hour on the hour, and eventually with the rise of Hip-Hop, programmers felt featuring this music exclusively or a combination of r&b/hip hop hybrid would generate the most profit, and that geared the up and coming generation of music listeners to start preferring that genre because they were not exposed to the full gamut, which includes R&B……that sole focus drove out the adult demographic to the point where across the board, the music industry became a youth driven entity as a whole.

Whenever a radio personality deviated from the new strategy, they were either demoted or fired. I’ve read about too many instances to make this stuff up, anyone can do their own research to reach their own conclusion. There are only a handful of locally owned stations that still exist today along with maybe 2-3 community radio stations and that’s not by accident

There was a reason Donnie Simpson stepped down from Video Soul as early as the end of the 80s, because he saw what lied ahead and it wasn't going to be pretty. He got OUTTA THERE. BET was ALREADY in decline even then.

The adult demographic had to be phased out because with them remaining visible and pertinent to record sales, the cohorts who ultimately created this dilemna knew it would be harder to debase the music in a way that would exploit the youth conscious for certifiable gain.

There was a black radio talk show host in NYC by the name of Bob Law who hosted a shot in the 80s/90s called Nighttalk…….greatest radio talk show I’ve ever heard and listened to it every day at night………he has a interview online that talks about the destruction of black radio and it goes into depth of the step by step process

We have to understand what R&B really is, this wasn’t something that just started in the 60s, 70s, or 80s, R&B which is shortened for Rhythm and Blues originated as far back as when recording music started. It was always at the forefront of black cultural expression with the hymms our ancestors used to sing, and rhythm and blues served as the anchor for creating gospel music, ragtime, blues, jazz, soul, funk, disco, would become modern day r&b during the golden age of music, and hip-hop….it’s not just some genre but a full cultural expression that was built up over a full century of experience.

If we noticed, as R&B has been undercut and marginalized, there hasn’t been a new genre of music to originate over the past 40 years…..that’s not by accident either…….you can’t cut the root from the tree and expect the branches to survive, because eventually those branches go looking for the root in order to sustain itself

After the void remained voided, the Neo-Soul movement tried to revive R&B during the late 90s through about 2001-2002 ish, with Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Angie Stone, DeAngelo, Music Soulchild, Sunshine Anderson, leading he way, but for the most part, the adult audience mainly bought their records and that movement lost momentum while entering the new millenium because it acted as a temporary bridge to what was lost.

Then you have another dynamic where everything is eventually geared towards pop music consumption and when the pop music realm starts to dictate how that the genre of the current age should be presented, promoted, and staged to maximize profit, that genre loses its true identity to a large degree and starts to grow stagnant…….the music industry was able to survive this dichotomy throughout the 20th century because there was always a new genre that rose to the surface every 10 to 20 years as culture remained prominent……but that’s no longer the case and that’s why we have so many people of today travelling back to the past to in an attempt to recreate what was done before, but that formula is only going to work so long before it runs its course….

Why do/did the youth of the past quarter century hold on so dearly to hip hop while chiding what came before…..it’s for this very reason, because they see what eventually happens as those who were responsible for producing all those creative works really had no control over its output and how the success of what was created was driven beyond the community….this is what causes the backlash and resentment of sorts when the people of that community see others benefit from something they helped shape as they feel their contribution is no longer recognized.

Imagine if Motown Records would have remained in Detroit, Michigan instead of moving abroad, the impact that would have had socially and economically in that city, creating a strong sense of cultural identity along the way to say the most successful black music label resides right in their own home for decades and decades….it’s no telling what would have come out of that. I’m sure the youth who followed those years would have been more prone and willing to appreciate that great period of time because they would have a firsthand account of it and wouldn’t chide it while growing up during their own age. You would have a sense that moment in history was really a part of you.

And I’m sure other cultures and ethnicities would feel the same way if their community cultivated ideas and expressions that become emulated by others

when the lines become blurred, that's when you get blurred lines...

[Edited 3/18/18 7:55am]

lrn36 said:

mjscarousel said:

So these pop stars who make ratchet trap music, you think they make more meaningful music than Bruno? You think they deserve "massive success" for making garbage music? Because that is what you are implying. Bruno Mars is not a genius but he makes much better pop music than his peers, its quality (whether he is copying a old sound or not).

You keep insisting that these labels force these particular artists to make a certain type of music but this is naive thinking because the artists mentioned are veterans and have leverage to make the type of music that they want at this point in their careers. These are not "new" artists. You think the record labels told Beyonce to exploit her marital issues to sell records? I don't believe that. She chose to do that. You keep minimizing the fault of these seasoned pop stars who also play a role in the type of music they make. These pop stars are not real artists, they follow trends and chase the radio instead of making quality music. Again, Bruno is not a innovator but he makes quality pop music and I can't hate on him for doing something his peers fail to do.

Regarding Usher, Usher has sold way more records than Bruno Mars making R&B music (this is the irony in you bringing up Usher and its a mute point). These labels will and HAVE backed Black singers who make R&B, we have evidence of this so you can't say it doesn't happen.

The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his R&B base and began making trap music (thats nobody's fault but his, he could have continued to making R&B music if he wanted too). You don't go making R&B music for 5 albums and then suddenly abandon it (some responsibility needs to be placed on these artists, its not completely ALL the record labels fault)Usher and Chris Brown are passed their peaks and hit making days so regardless of what music they make it would not have been a smash like Uptown Funk.

A couple of years ago the industry and radio was backing Frank Ocean (an alternative R&B singer) and he won a couple of Grammy's. I remember the org raved and hyped Frank during this period and still till this day I don't get the hoopla over him and I find him to be overrated. Why didn't you all make these same complaints about the lack of R&B in the mainstream when Frank was hot?

It feels like you all are making excuses because you all don't like the fact that Bruno is inspired by a lot of the artists that you listen too. Its actually sad because you all should be lifting him up instead of putting him down. He is doing something that these current pop stars fail to do which is make quality pop music. We NEED more pop stars like Bruno. He will always have my respect.

You still didn't answer my question on JT? Black people were raving about him and you all were too and all that white man does is appropiate Black culture BUT its okay because he is White, right? JT shitted on Prince and mocked him when he was alive. Despite that JT had the audacity to play his new album at PAISLEY PARK and I did not see not one thread on the org about that B.S BUT everyone has time to bash Bruno Mars, a artist who ALWAYS gives credit to his influences, INCLUDING Prince.

Again, I can't take these opinions seriously. If you are going to call Bruno Mars a cultural appropiator or criticize him for "copying" R&B and old sounds then we got to go WAY back and call everyone out. Call Elvis and Jt out (who you all love defending on this site but then turn around and bash Bruno Mars )

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

I'd take Bruno Mars over JT any day.

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hey, MJC!! Missed ya!

Hey sweetie , likewise, good seeing you!

lrn36 said:

mjscarousel said:

So these pop stars who make ratchet trap music, you think they make more meaningful music than Bruno? You think they deserve "massive success" for making garbage music? Because that is what you are implying. Bruno Mars is not a genius but he makes much better pop music than his peers, its quality (whether he is copying a old sound or not).

You keep insisting that these labels force these particular artists to make a certain type of music but this is naive thinking because the artists mentioned are veterans and have leverage to make the type of music that they want at this point in their careers. These are not "new" artists. You think the record labels told Beyonce to exploit her marital issues to sell records? I don't believe that. She chose to do that. You keep minimizing the fault of these seasoned pop stars who also play a role in the type of music they make. These pop stars are not real artists, they follow trends and chase the radio instead of making quality music. Again, Bruno is not a innovator but he makes quality pop music and I can't hate on him for doing something his peers fail to do.

Regarding Usher, Usher has sold way more records than Bruno Mars making R&B music (this is the irony in you bringing up Usher and its a mute point). These labels will and HAVE backed Black singers who make R&B, we have evidence of this so you can't say it doesn't happen.

The problem with Usher is that he abandoned his R&B base and began making trap music (thats nobody's fault but his, he could have continued to making R&B music if he wanted too). You don't go making R&B music for 5 albums and then suddenly abandon it (some responsibility needs to be placed on these artists, its not completely ALL the record labels fault)Usher and Chris Brown are passed their peaks and hit making days so regardless of what music they make it would not have been a smash like Uptown Funk.

A couple of years ago the industry and radio was backing Frank Ocean (an alternative R&B singer) and he won a couple of Grammy's. I remember the org raved and hyped Frank during this period and still till this day I don't get the hoopla over him and I find him to be overrated. Why didn't you all make these same complaints about the lack of R&B in the mainstream when Frank was hot?

It feels like you all are making excuses because you all don't like the fact that Bruno is inspired by a lot of the artists that you listen too. Its actually sad because you all should be lifting him up instead of putting him down. He is doing something that these current pop stars fail to do which is make quality pop music. We NEED more pop stars like Bruno. He will always have my respect.

You still didn't answer my question on JT? Black people were raving about him and you all were too and all that white man does is appropiate Black culture BUT its okay because he is White, right? JT shitted on Prince and mocked him when he was alive. Despite that JT had the audacity to play his new album at PAISLEY PARK and I did not see not one thread on the org about that B.S BUT everyone has time to bash Bruno Mars, a artist who ALWAYS gives credit to his influences, INCLUDING Prince.

Again, I can't take these opinions seriously. If you are going to call Bruno Mars a cultural appropiator or criticize him for "copying" R&B and old sounds then we got to go WAY back and call everyone out. Call Elvis and Jt out (who you all love defending on this site but then turn around and bash Bruno Mars )

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

Lol...Marrs is pretty lame. He has zero feel or authenticity 2 his music.

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

Stephanie Mills Says Black R&B Artists Have Been Pushed Out: ‘They Want It From Adele and Justin Timberlake’

http://atlantablackstar.c...imberlake/

'When you’re black you have to fight': Tinashe, Kehlani and other female R&B artists struggle for attention

http://www.latimes.com/en...story.html

R&B's Changing Voice: How Hip-Hop Edged Grittier Singers Out of the Mainstream

https://www.rollingstone....am-w504678

Here is a more nuanced discussion of the issue with the cast of the Grapevine. They say the conversation is really beyond Bruno and about the way the industry and larger society treats black culture.

mjscarousel said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hey, MJC!! Missed ya!

Hey sweetie , likewise, good seeing you!

.

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Well, I'm not a JT or Elvis fan. I don't know where you got that from. Not only do I think his music is junk, I also think he is some kind of borderline sociopath with the way he threw Janet Jackson under the bus to save his own ass and the way he acted he was good friends with Prince when he clearly wasn't. The guy is the worst kind of weasel. Elvis was good singer, decent performer, and mediocre guitar player who didn't write any of his music. He is highly overrated in the realm of rock and roll. I will take Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Little Richard over him any day.

Like I said before I don't have a problem with Bruno making RnB music, but at least make an attempt to bring a new flavor to it instead of being content to recreate what came before. I know its impossible to innovate or create a new sound because everything that can be done with pop music has between may times over. But have we got to the point where an artist can't even put a new spin on an old sound? If that's the case then it's truly hopeless.

I do agree with you about Frank Ocean. He was as dull as watching food spoil. I think a lot of the attention came from being an openly gay black RnB artist in an era of hyper masculinity in music.

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

.

Bruno's got talent, for sure and his music appeals to the general population. I wouldn't say he's a MJ or Prince, but he is a good musician who can sell records & writes his own stuff and performs; he is legit.

lrn36 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

Stephanie Mills Says Black R&B Artists Have Been Pushed Out: ‘They Want It From Adele and Justin Timberlake’

http://atlantablackstar.c...imberlake/

'When you’re black you have to fight': Tinashe, Kehlani and other female R&B artists struggle for attention

http://www.latimes.com/en...story.html

R&B's Changing Voice: How Hip-Hop Edged Grittier Singers Out of the Mainstream

https://www.rollingstone....am-w504678

Here is a more nuanced discussion of the issue with the cast of the Grapevine. They say the conversation is really beyond Bruno and about the way the industry and larger society treats black culture.

.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure I can agree with Stepanie Mills comment. I don't think R&B artists are being pushed-out, at all. The problem is, we don't have any real talent in R&B -- not much, anyways. I don't consider Adele to be R&B. There are some good young R&B artists out there, but it seems people don't really want to hear that music these days, but I could be wrong.

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure I can agree with Stepanie Mills comment. I don't think R&B artists are being pushed-out, at all. The problem is, we don't have any real talent in R&B -- not much, anyways. I don't consider Adele to be R&B. There are some good young R&B artists out there, but it seems people don't really want to hear that music these days, but I could be wrong.

Personally,

If I found myself in a position to establish a career in music on a professional level

The main thought I would never let go is to learn and to be willing to make my own music, even knowing it would be harder and more challenging to do...

and just start from scratch...

yes, memories of past influences would always be there, but no matter how great the music of yseteryear was, it would be more rewarding and I would gain a greater sense of satisfaction knowing I was able to achieve what is now deemed to be impossible

for if the lumaries from the past generations could do it, so can the present and future artists who follow...

I would be so proud knowing that trend of interpolating and sampling in overabundance could be broken, a whole new world could open

that way, I could not be accused of cultural appropriation or being nostalgic

the new frontier is there, Iv'e always believed this when thes sampling kicked into overdrive...

and that way, no record company can dictate what you do, because they know they can't box you into a corner and limit your creativity, once they see that determination, they will eventually back you.....

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

Lol...Marrs is pretty lame. He has zero feel or authenticity 2 his music.

Gray you hate Bruno Mars because he is inspired by Prince just admit it (your my boy but thats the truth)

I can't take your music opinions seriously anymore after you claimed you would much rather listen to Beyonce over Bruno Mars. LMAO How can you then have the nerve as well as the audacity to lecture me or anyone on "authentic music" when you rather listen to garbage?

Come on Gray

I will always bring that up because you and I both know that is a bunch of B.S. You have an issue with him beyond his music to make such a ridiculous outlandish remark.

There is way worse music on the radio right now. Bruno's is not the worse of the worse

We all have collectively agreed that the man is not a innovator or a genius but the QUALITY of his music is better than his pop peers and if you cannot maturely nor objectively acknowledge that, that is your own stubborness/personal biases blinding you and no one else.

cloveringold85 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

.

Bruno's got talent, for sure and his music appeals to the general population. I wouldn't say he's a MJ or Prince, but he is a good musician who can sell records & writes his own stuff and performs; he is legit.

Thats how I feel. He will never be MJ or Prince and he is no where on that level of talent and of course I love MJ far better than Bruno BUT Bruno is legit and not some manufactured singer like some are making. He writes and plays instruments and he makes descent pop music compared to his peers.

So...what is all this hate about?

lrn36 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thankyou, I am glad we share the same perspectives about JT and Elvis who IMO are the real culture appropiators of Black culture and entertainment. They are constantly given credit for things Black artists originally innovated musically and they have never properly given any of the Black legends they copied a platform to share their innovations, unlike Bruno who has.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bruno because I think he is actually doing a good job of putting his own spin on old sounds. I never understand why some people call him a "karaoke artist" which is a bunch of B.S. Bruno writes ORIGINAL lyrics so how could he be a Karaoke artist? Its logically and objectively not true and the sounds that he is inspired by are not copied from cord to cord. People kill me how they put so much energy in being overly critical of Bruno Mars instead of those other pop stars that make garbage bland pop music (its the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I get it, some don't have to like Bruno Mars but to act like he makes the worse pop music of today is absurd and he is not more overrated than some of the other pop stars that get way more accolades for garbage music, so I don't understand the hate Bruno gets). We also have to look at the context of his popularity within TODAY's standards of Pop music and the standards are very very very very very very low to put it nicely. I agree with the points you have raised and your concerns but he is the best that we have today in terms of quality pop music.

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

Stephanie Mills Says Black R&B Artists Have Been Pushed Out: ‘They Want It From Adele and Justin Timberlake’

http://atlantablackstar.c...imberlake/

'When you’re black you have to fight': Tinashe, Kehlani and other female R&B artists struggle for attention

http://www.latimes.com/en...story.html

R&B's Changing Voice: How Hip-Hop Edged Grittier Singers Out of the Mainstream

https://www.rollingstone....am-w504678

Here is a more nuanced discussion of the issue with the cast of the Grapevine. They say the conversation is really beyond Bruno and about the way the industry and larger society treats black culture.

That is a good point and understandable. I think with Unorthodox that was a better display of his own sound with some old school influences. It wasn't a traditional R&B album. I think with 24k he wanted to make a straight R&B/Funk record after the succcess of Uptown/Funk. So it seemed repetitive to some people. Hopefully with the next album he experiments with other genres and goes in a different direction. Growth is an important thing and I definitly like how he switches it up with each album.

I agree with these arguments in the links you posted but the only thing I never understand with these discussions is that why aren't Black pop stars or Black music buyers called out? They play JUST as much of a role in this problem with why there is a lack of R&B in the mainstream. As an artist, (regardless of your label of choice) you make a decision ultimately if you want to be a puppet or follow your heart (i.e. Janelle Monae). I don't believe these season artists are as controlled by labels. ALSO, none of the Black artists out now with money never put on or introduce other artists. For example, Whitney use to ask Brandy to come on stage with her and she performed with Mariah, Kelly Price, Deborah Cox, etc. Prince also use to do the same thing back in the day with his proteges. MJ also started his own label of R&B artists and worked with R.Kelly, Floetry, Teddy Riley, etc. Other BLACK pop stars giving other BLACK R&B singers a platform makes a difference too. Black musicians and singers are not united as once before and this is a bigger problem we have beyond just music as a Black community. Its not ALL about the labels. There is more that WE can do for our own people. In saying that, I do agree labels are also a big part of the problem. It does feel like R&B is being phased out.

Lastly, there IS a lot of tokenism and racism in the industry that is negatively affecting Black singers. It feels as though they only want 2 Black pop stars winning all the awards and getting all this unnessesary backing (its political and strategic) because as you mentioned there have been talented artists that have came out over the years and they don't receive backing or marketing like the token Blacks singers. So yes this issue is far bigger than Bruno.

I find Bruno Mars music unbearably corny, generic and cheesy but I disagree he appropriates black culture -- guy always gives his props and never says he's anything he's not. Infact he's one of the most humble singers in the mainstream which is cool. Plus Prince seemed to like him so I dont think he had a stick up his ass that Bruno won awards he didn't. I think the anger comes from media always rushing to 'crown' someone... he is talented and I dont see many people say he's on MJ/Prince level except media articles.

A good point she made thoug is how Prince never won Album of the Year. What a shame. Grammys knew they snubbed him too which is why they spent 2004-09 heaping awards on him for "Musicology" and "3121." It would've been nice if his classic albums got the prize back then

mjscarousel said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol...Marrs is pretty lame. He has zero feel or authenticity 2 his music.

Gray you hate Bruno Mars because he is inspired by Prince just admit it (your my boy but thats the truth)

I can't take your music opinions seriously anymore after you claimed you would much rather listen to Beyonce over Bruno Mars. LMAO How can you then have the nerve as well as the audacity to lecture me or anyone on "authentic music" when you rather listen to garbage?

Come on Gray

I will always bring that up because you and I both know that is a bunch of B.S. You have an issue with him beyond his music to make such a ridiculous outlandish remark.

There is way worse music on the radio right now. Bruno's is not the worse of the worse

We all have collectively agreed that the man is not a innovator or a genius but the QUALITY of his music is better than his pop peers and if you cannot maturely nor objectively acknowledge that, that is your own stubborness/personal biases blinding you and no one else.

Beyonce, Bruno...both are garbage.

Graycap23 said:

Beyonce, Bruno...both are garbage.

pretty much

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

Stephanie Mills Says Black R&B Artists Have Been Pushed Out: ‘They Want It From Adele and Justin Timberlake’

http://atlantablackstar.c...imberlake/

'When you’re black you have to fight': Tinashe, Kehlani and other female R&B artists struggle for attention

http://www.latimes.com/en...story.html

R&B's Changing Voice: How Hip-Hop Edged Grittier Singers Out of the Mainstream

https://www.rollingstone....am-w504678

Here is a more nuanced discussion of the issue with the cast of the Grapevine. They say the conversation is really beyond Bruno and about the way the industry and larger society treats black culture.

That is a good point and understandable. I think with Unorthodox that was a better display of his own sound with some old school influences. It wasn't a traditional R&B album. I think with 24k he wanted to make a straight R&B/Funk record after the succcess of Uptown/Funk. So it seemed repetitive to some people. Hopefully with the next album he experiments with other genres and goes in a different direction. Growth is an important thing and I definitly like how he switches it up with each album.

I agree with these arguments in the links you posted but the only thing I never understand with these discussions is that why aren't Black pop stars or Black music buyers called out? They play JUST as much of a role in this problem with why there is a lack of R&B in the mainstream. As an artist, (regardless of your label of choice) you make a decision ultimately if you want to be a puppet or follow your heart (i.e. Janelle Monae). I don't believe these season artists are as controlled by labels. ALSO, none of the Black artists out now with money never put on or introduce other artists. For example, Whitney use to ask Brandy to come on stage with her and she performed with Mariah, Kelly Price, Deborah Cox, etc. Prince also use to do the same thing back in the day with his proteges. MJ also started his own label of R&B artists and worked with R.Kelly, Floetry, Teddy Riley, etc. Other BLACK pop stars giving other BLACK R&B singers a platform makes a difference too. Black musicians and singers are not united as once before and this is a bigger problem we have beyond just music as a Black community. Its not ALL about the labels. There is more that WE can do for our own people. In saying that, I do agree labels are also a big part of the problem. It does feel like R&B is being phased out.

Lastly, there IS a lot of tokenism and racism in the industry that is negatively affecting Black singers. It feels as though they only want 2 Black pop stars winning all the awards and getting all this unnessesary backing (its political and strategic) because as you mentioned there have been talented artists that have came out over the years and they don't receive backing or marketing like the token Blacks singers. So yes this issue is far bigger than Bruno.

Indeed UJ was a mych better album, stronger and displayed a much more unicque sound. Altoguh I like much more Bruno's music than Beyonce's music I find her music more interesting.

cloveringold85 said:

lrn36 said:

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

Stephanie Mills Says Black R&B Artists Have Been Pushed Out: ‘They Want It From Adele and Justin Timberlake’

http://atlantablackstar.c...imberlake/

'When you’re black you have to fight': Tinashe, Kehlani and other female R&B artists struggle for attention

http://www.latimes.com/en...story.html

R&B's Changing Voice: How Hip-Hop Edged Grittier Singers Out of the Mainstream

https://www.rollingstone....am-w504678

Here is a more nuanced discussion of the issue with the cast of the Grapevine. They say the conversation is really beyond Bruno and about the way the industry and larger society treats black culture.

.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure I can agree with Stepanie Mills comment. I don't think R&B artists are being pushed-out, at all. The problem is, we don't have any real talent in R&B -- not much, anyways. I don't consider Adele to be R&B. There are some good young R&B artists out there, but it seems people don't really want to hear that music these days, but I could be wrong.

D'angelo(an artist with his own sound) had a GREAT comeback album "Black Messiah" in 2014.That wasn't a blockbuster. Although it did go Gold. But I felt it didn't get the proper attention he deserved.

STEVIE WONDER CALLS BS ON BRUNO MARS CRITICS... Ain't No Cultural Appropriation

ChocolateBox3121 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure I can agree with Stepanie Mills comment. I don't think R&B artists are being pushed-out, at all. The problem is, we don't have any real talent in R&B -- not much, anyways. I don't consider Adele to be R&B. There are some good young R&B artists out there, but it seems people don't really want to hear that music these days, but I could be wrong.

D'angelo(an artist with his own sound) had a GREAT comeback album "Black Messiah" in 2014.That wasn't a blockbuster. Although it did go Gold. But I felt it didn't get the proper attention he deserved.

I loved loved Black Messiah, it deserved more recognition and awards

[Edited 3/18/18 20:15pm]

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Thanks for the discussion, you brought up some great point was well.

I do agree that in the current pop landscape, Bruno Mars is clearly the most talented. I just wish he would take that talent and push beyond the familiar because right now he is selling nostalgia. Hopefully, he will take the criticism out there as a challenge to create something new. Right now he has the paltform and the talent to do it. Why not?

Also there has been a number of articles in recent years about black artists being pushed out of RnB.

I agree with these arguments in the links you posted but the only thing I never understand with these discussions is that why aren't Black pop stars or Black music buyers called out? They play JUST as much of a role in this problem with why there is a lack of R&B in the mainstream. As an artist, (regardless of your label of choice) you make a decision ultimately if you want to be a puppet or follow your heart (i.e. Janelle Monae). I don't believe these season artists are as controlled by labels. ALSO, none of the Black artists out now with money never put on or introduce other artists.

Thats what I been saying. The audience has to listen and buy their stuff, view it on youtube. They all listening to hip hop even the grown folks bumping trap music like its that knock smh. I don't know the last time I heard anyone bumping a r&b song in their car..and you know what the last one was I heard? "Finesse" by Bruno. If that is what it takes to get r&b back to people appreciating r&b and making more shit like this I am all for it...or else suffer the conseqquences of listening to more Migos Young Thug and Lil Yachty all year. Got damn.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

STEVIE WONDER CALLS BS ON BRUNO MARS CRITICS... Ain't No Cultural Appropriation

Notice how TMZ tried until the bitter end to put words in Stevie's mouth saying he was giving Bruno a pass?

It's not about a pass, it's about God created music for everybody.

poppys said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

STEVIE WONDER CALLS BS ON BRUNO MARS CRITICS... Ain't No Cultural Appropriation

Notice how TMZ tried until the bitter end to put words in Stevie's mouth saying he was giving Bruno a pass?

It's not about a pass, it's about God created music for everybody.

.