Graycap23 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I don't agree with your general consensus on Bruno but I'm glad you're not jumping on the appropriator bandwagon.

Anyone who call him an appropriator is clueless.

What is he supposed 2 do? Not play the music that he likes?

Right.

This type of stuff just puts people in boxes, and tells them to stay there. If someone loves a particular style of music, they should do it, especially if they have an aptitutude for it- that includes bruno Mars , Adele, Hall and Oates, Wynton Marsalis, Leotyne Price, Elvis Presley, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, and Charlie Pride, along with too many others to mention

jjhunsecker said:

This type of stuff just puts people in boxes, and tells them to stay there. If someone loves a particular style of music, they should do it, especially if they have an aptitutude for it- that includes bruno Mars , Adele, Hall and Oates, Wynton Marsalis, Leotyne Price, Elvis Presley, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, and Charlie Pride, along with too many others to mention

Ironically, the people saying that Bruno is guilty of appropriation are also saying that black people can only make black music. Thankfully, people are more open minded than they were decades ago so a black person making pop music isn't as frowned upon within the urban community but that mentality still exists.

I think this whole thing blew up because Bruno won all those Grammys. In particular, AotY over Kendrick. Had he not been so awarded we wouldn't have heard a peep.

this is just beyond me why Bruno, a person of color, is ruthlessly bashed, for recording R&B music that sells and doesn't sound like something a 5 year old produced. but when Emimem came along as a hip-hop artist (it doesn't get much blacker than hip-hop), all of a sudden, the masses suddenly "discover" the genre, the press dubs him the King, the greatest thing to ever happen to hip-hop, pretend like the rappers who came before him didn't bloody matter and I didn't hear black folk complaining nearly as much as they seem to be with Bruno.

I wonder if these folks have anything to say about black dudes playing in the NBA & NFL and making a lot of money doing so. Since both football & basketball were created by white people like James Naismith. If you go back far enough, professional sports teams in the US were all white males, and non-whites were not allowed to play on them. So alternate teams like the negro league were created. Wouldn't this be considered "appropriation of white culture"? They also don't mention that the black audience in general abandoned jazz, rock n roll, ragtime, etc. and that white audiences kept these genres alive. Several blues singers have said that white hippies & beatniks in the 1960s embraced them when a lot of the black audience & radio stations went on to soul music. Later audiences then abandoned soul with disco, and later hip hop. New Jack Swing was hip hop influenced and singing groups like Bell Biv DeVoe, Jodeci, Jade, TLC, Xscape had hip hop fashion rather than the matching suits of The Spinners and the wild outfits & androgynous fashions of the funk bands.

MotownSubdivision said:

Ironically, the people saying that Bruno is guilty of appropriation are also saying that black people can only make black music.

Well I guess they don't listen to Aretha Franklin's early Atlantic stuff, because some of it had white session musicians. So does a lot of other R&B/soul/funk records like Muscle Shoals, Toto, Wrecking Crew, half of Booker T. & The MGs, Jay Graydon, Bob James, John Robinson, David Sanborn, Seawind Horns, etc. Joe Tex had white Nashville country session guys on his stuff including on Ain't Gonna Bump No More. A lot of it had white producers as well and so did blues & jazz records. Even the Last Poets had a white producer (Alan Douglas). Motown had people like Dennis Coffey & Bob Babbitt playing on their records and also signed white acts to the label like T.G. Sheppard, Rare Earth, Severin Browne, Chris Clark, Stoney & Meatloaf, and Teena Marie. Kenny G played on songs by Whitney Houston, Johnny Gill, Kashif, & others. Ringo Starr played drums on a B.B. King album. Early hip hop had producers like Arthur Baker & Rick Rubin. Arthur Baker was also involved with New Edition's debut album and he remixed a lot of songs in the 1980s. Before Hall & Oates, Daryl Hall was a session guy for Gamble & Huff and Thom Bell.

Some people have pointed to black artists like Anderson Paak, The Internet, Masego, and Daniel Caesar who have been doing the retro RnB sound for a few years and haven't really blown up. The musical landscape has really narrowed in the last couple of years and record labels are only picking a handful of artists to get that major push. And right now, they're not picking any black artists for mainstream push. It's crazy that there was more variety and opportunity for mainstream success for black artists in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s than now.

Is that Bruno Mars' fault? No. But you all wouldn't be talking about it if she had criticized the music industry. Unfortunately in today's climate, people have to go to extreme measures to get people to listen and discuss these issues.

Well, pretty soon the entire music industry will collapse and every musician will be struggling to make a living in this game.

lrn36 said:

It's crazy that there was more variety and opportunity for mainstream success for black artists in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s than now.

Is that Bruno Mars' fault? No. But you all wouldn't be talking about it if she had criticized the music industry. Unfortunately in today's climate, people have to go to extreme measures to get people to listen and discuss these issues.

Well, pretty soon the entire music industry will collapse and every musician will be struggling to make a living in this game.

.

Indeed, well said.

StrangeButTrue said:

lrn36 said:

It's crazy that there was more variety and opportunity for mainstream success for black artists in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s than now.

Is that Bruno Mars' fault? No. But you all wouldn't be talking about it if she had criticized the music industry. Unfortunately in today's climate, people have to go to extreme measures to get people to listen and discuss these issues.

Well, pretty soon the entire music industry will collapse and every musician will be struggling to make a living in this game.

.

Indeed, well said.

@ the gif

lrn36 said:

Some people have pointed to black artists like Anderson Paak, The Internet, Masego, and Daniel Caesar who have been doing the retro RnB sound for a few years and haven't really blown up. The musical landscape has really narrowed in the last couple of years and record labels are only picking a handful of artists to get that major push. And right now, they're not picking any black artists for mainstream push. It's crazy that there was more variety and opportunity for mainstream success for black artists in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s than now.

Is that Bruno Mars' fault? No. But you all wouldn't be talking about it if she had criticized the music industry. Unfortunately in today's climate, people have to go to extreme measures to get people to listen and discuss these issues.

Well, pretty soon the entire music industry will collapse and every musician will be struggling to make a living in this game.

This doesn't go against what you're saying but you can criticize the discriminative nature of the music industry and still be a Bruno fan. At the very least they've allowed a PoC who has a genuine admiration for black music to be successful on a major scale; however, that still isn't good enough.

Even taking those extreme measures into account, nothing is ever really accomplished. Even with all these anti-bullying campaigns, kids are still being bullied, even with BLM, crooked cops are still getting away with murdering innocent civilians. Today all we do is talk about the problems we have without actually solving them.

Hamad said:

StrangeButTrue said:

.

Indeed, well said.

@ the gif

.

I can't look at one without going "expert lover... my baby...."

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

Some people have pointed to black artists like Anderson Paak, The Internet, Masego, and Daniel Caesar who have been doing the retro RnB sound for a few years and haven't really blown up. The musical landscape has really narrowed in the last couple of years and record labels are only picking a handful of artists to get that major push. And right now, they're not picking any black artists for mainstream push. It's crazy that there was more variety and opportunity for mainstream success for black artists in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s than now.

Is that Bruno Mars' fault? No. But you all wouldn't be talking about it if she had criticized the music industry. Unfortunately in today's climate, people have to go to extreme measures to get people to listen and discuss these issues.

Well, pretty soon the entire music industry will collapse and every musician will be struggling to make a living in this game.

This doesn't go against what you're saying but you can criticize the discriminative nature of the music industry and still be a Bruno fan. At the very least they've allowed a PoC who has a genuine admiration for black music to be successful on a major scale; however, that still isn't good enough.

Even taking those extreme measures into account, nothing is ever really accomplished. Even with all these anti-bullying campaigns, kids are still being bullied, even with BLM, crooked cops are still getting away with murdering innocent civilians. Today all we do is talk about the problems we have without actually solving them.

Well, the young woman in the video is clearly not a Bruno fan. LOL I looked up some of her videos and she does like getting a rise out of people by making controversial statements. She does make a lot of valid points about how the industry treats black artists and seems to be pretty knowledgable about the history of black music. She does admit that Bruno is an extremely talented singer and performer. His massive success and accollades for what she deems as directly mimicking black artists from the 90s is what she finds concerning. Her greater question is are black artists being pushed out for R n B for good? It's not like this hasn't happened before. How many people know that a black woman was a big influencer of rock and roll?

kitbradley said:

this is just beyond me why Bruno, a person of color, is ruthlessly bashed, for recording R&B music that sells and doesn't sound like something a 5 year old produced. but when Emimem came along as a hip-hop artist (it doesn't get much blacker than hip-hop), all of a sudden, the masses suddenly "discover" the genre, the press dubs him the King, the greatest thing to ever happen to hip-hop, pretend like the rappers who came before him didn't bloody matter and I didn't hear black folk complaining nearly as much as they seem to be with Bruno.

nah...black folks were, and STILL complain about Eminem's success, relative to his black peers... its the white media, that put Em on a pedestal he didnt deserve... Eminem has always gotten ridiculed by black hip hop fans and even artists, for being hiphop's great white hope...and its one of the reasons his career trajectory has fallen off...and he's always been super sensitive to it... then he became a caricature of himself...

Scorp said:

The real issue is the need for todays artist which are replicating a practice of the past 30 years to really make and craft and shape their own music

Doesn't an act each decade have some success doing older sounding music?


1970s - Sha Na Na, Blues Brothers, Grease Soundtrack

1980s - Stray Cats, Bruno Radolini (Bruce Willis), Fabulous Thunderbirds

1990s - Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Lenny Kravitz, Brand New Heavies, Jamiroquai, Black Crowes, Natalie Cole, Harry Connick Jr.

2000s+ - Michael Bublé, Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, Chris Stapleton, Rod Stewart (American Songbook albums), Tony Bennett

So apparently Sensei (we not eeeeeven gon go to the name ) needs a history lesson. Throughout history black music as been taken from us and given to people who were more 'palateable' or 'makertable' so it'll sell to a wider/ whiter audience. This isn't news. From singers being replaced by their white, lighter skin, skinnier. or overall better looking counterparts. We not stupid nor do we have a sudden case of amneisia but okay girl. Is that Bruno's fault? No.

Hip Hop was derived from funk and jazz, hence the heavy sampling you'll find even today still. Its a tactic thats been used for ALL genres of a nostaglic callback to the simplier times. Back in the 90s we wanted the 70s back and now in the 00s we want the 90s back, back in the 70s we wanted the 50s back, etc. Bruno ain't doing nothing I haven't heard or watched before.

Are we attacking orginality, hmm can't be. Unlike a certain Knowles-Carter, he sites his sources at the very least before giving a replica of someting.

I love this thread.

MotownSubdivision said:

paisleypark4 said:

Three million worldwide.

According to Wikipedia, 24K has sold 1 million in the US. Blurred Lines has sold 800,000. The latter has been out since 2013 and hasn't even gone platinum despite having a far more succesful single.

when I look at these numbers, even as the world's population has at least grown by 33% over the past thirty years, even as select artists of today are reminding people how good the music was from 30 plus years ago, the void has not been filled......because of a lack of authenticity which simply means, developing your own style of music

a person can remind us through concert show or single stage performance how great music was from two generatiosn ago, but that's not enticing people who was actually grew up during that actual period to support what's being done today.....

that's the difference......the media can show favor and give all this praise by interpolating a period of time only last temporarily, and sooner or later, that person will not be seen as his/her own artist and only one who emulates what has been done before.....

what I'm saying, 24 K Magic and Blurred lines is/was receiving constant airplay on urban radio/pop radio on steady rotation, but its' not producing the record sales on the same level as those they are saying to be paying homage to.

what's happening is, when the majority of music listeners from the golden era come across the 24 K Magics and the Blurred lines, it's not encouraging them to buy their records per se, it's actually producing the countereffect where they are going back to listen to the songs they are being reminded of

the formula doesn't last, and eventually, you have to become your own artist

and basically, those who are supporting artists who are paying homage to the past are doing so because they have been robbed of the opportunity of growing up being presenting w/the same level of music as the audience who grew up generations before during the golden era......

[Edited 3/12/18 17:18pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

jjhunsecker said:

This type of stuff just puts people in boxes, and tells them to stay there. If someone loves a particular style of music, they should do it, especially if they have an aptitutude for it- that includes bruno Mars , Adele, Hall and Oates, Wynton Marsalis, Leotyne Price, Elvis Presley, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, and Charlie Pride, along with too many others to mention

Ironically, the people saying that Bruno is guilty of appropriation are also saying that black people can only make black music. Thankfully, people are more open minded than they were decades ago so a black person making pop music isn't as frowned upon within the urban community but that mentality still exists.

I think this whole thing blew up because Bruno won all those Grammys. In particular, AotY over Kendrick. Had he not been so awarded we wouldn't have heard a peep.

People have to get themselves OUT of boxes, not put themselves or others INTO boxes.

Scorp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

paisleypark4 said: According to Wikipedia, 24K has sold 1 million in the US. Blurred Lines has sold 800,000. The latter has been out since 2013 and hasn't even gone platinum despite having a far more succesful single.

when I look at these numbers, even as the world's population has at least grown by 33% over the past thirty years, even as select artists of today are reminding people how good the music was from 30 plus years ago, the void has not been filled......because of a lack of authenticity which simply means, developing your own style of music

a person can remind us through concert show or single stage performance how great music was from two generatiosn ago, but that's not enticing people who was actually grew up during that actual period to support what's being done today.....

that's the difference......the media can show favor and give all this praise by interpolating a period of time only last temporarily, and sooner or later, that person will not be seen as his/her own artist and only one who emulates what has been done before.....

what I'm saying, 24 K Magic and Blurred lines is/was receiving constant airplay on urban radio/pop radio on steady rotation, but its' not producing the record sales on the same level as those they are saying to be paying homage to.

what's happening is, when the majority of music listeners from the golden era come across the 24 K Magics and the Blurred lines, it's not encouraging them to buy their records per se, it's actually producing the countereffect where they are going back to listen to the songs they are being reminded of

the formula doesn't last, and eventually, you have to become your own artist

and basically, those who are supporting artists who are paying homage to the past are doing so because they have been robbed of the opportunity of growing up being presenting w/the same level of music as the audience who grew up generations before during the golden era......

[Edited 3/12/18 17:18pm]

This is just why I bought his album after hearing several of the tracks. It was the r&b that got me into dancing that is now long gone and ignored...

This is just the reason why older people like I (36 and up) ran out and bought the album. Soon as I heard Finesse I lost my shit. Dancing like it was 1992.

jjhunsecker said:

paisleypark4 said:

Scorp said:

when I look at these numbers, even as the world's population has at least grown by 33% over the past thirty years, even as select artists of today are reminding people how good the music was from 30 plus years ago, the void has not been filled......because of a lack of authenticity which simply means, developing your own style of music

a person can remind us through concert show or single stage performance how great music was from two generatiosn ago, but that's not enticing people who was actually grew up during that actual period to support what's being done today.....

that's the difference......the media can show favor and give all this praise by interpolating a period of time only last temporarily, and sooner or later, that person will not be seen as his/her own artist and only one who emulates what has been done before.....

what I'm saying, 24 K Magic and Blurred lines is/was receiving constant airplay on urban radio/pop radio on steady rotation, but its' not producing the record sales on the same level as those they are saying to be paying homage to.

what's happening is, when the majority of music listeners from the golden era come across the 24 K Magics and the Blurred lines, it's not encouraging them to buy their records per se, it's actually producing the countereffect where they are going back to listen to the songs they are being reminded of

the formula doesn't last, and eventually, you have to become your own artist

and basically, those who are supporting artists who are paying homage to the past are doing so because they have been robbed of the opportunity of growing up being presenting w/the same level of music as the audience who grew up generations before during the golden era......

[Edited 3/12/18 17:18pm]

This is just why I bought his album after hearing several of the tracks. It was the r&b that got me into dancing that is now long gone and ignored...

This is just the reason why older people like I (36 and up) ran out and bought the album. Soon as I heard Finesse I lost my shit. Dancing like it was 1992.

Some music from 1992 should stay in 1992. That Finesse song is just a cover/mashup of any 1992 R&B song from the SFX to production but now with really subpar singing skills from this Bruno Mars guy. That music was great in the early 90's and iconic in that era because it was a whole lifestyle that went with it. Now it's just Bruno Mars again trying to cash in on fads from the past. I hope they sue his ass, like they did with that Blurred Lines jackoff.

lrn36 said:

I agree, I mean the guy is representing an 'ethnic' region that is almost invisible outside of of 1/2 of Dwayne Johnson aka the Rock

Bruno's father is 1/2 Hawaiian and his mother is Polynesian.

Let em get on the map for sure. They are native people.

MotownSubdivision said:

Anyway, this whole thing is a double edged sword. Cultural appropriation is a real thing and you'd be a fool to try and deny that (and as we've seen, there are countless fools out there). However, where does these accusations stop? Chris Brown, Usher and NeYo were too busy trying to stay on the charts making bottom of the barrel rap and poppy EDM music, respectively. They could be making the kind of music Bruno has been making instead of chasing trends and failing to deliver quality music. At the same time, they shouldn't have to feel obligated to make that sort of music because this very idea that black artists can only make hip hop and R&B is only further relegation. Not only can no one of any other skin color make the music we make but we can only make the music that we've made. Do you really want music to be segregated like that again? Bruno is not outwardly black but he very much a PoC; just one of a different shade than some of us. If anything we should be rooting for him because he's a fellow PoC and is bringing the sounds of the past back into the limelight, he has brought that old school philosphy back into the mainstream; the very sounds and philosphy just about every mainstream black artist today has ignored till Bruno made them remember. And it isn't like Bruno is aome culture vulture who'll do an interview tomorrow talking about how loud and obnoxious the music he's profiting off of is and following up with a country album, he actually loves the music he's making. The dude referenced Bootsy Collins in his live special for God's sakes. It's not like Bootsy is a massive international musical giant known by just about everybody yet Bruno actually covered one of his songs. Yeah, yeah, he's not original but I defy you to tell me who is anymore. The closest thing we got to innovation in music these days is trap and I know none of you would be caught dead enjoying that. On the other side of the coin, if Bruno were black, I doubt he'd be the household name that he's become. His albums sells combined probably wouldn't even scrape gold status, his singles would be "bubbling under" and he wouldn't be selling out stadiums, let alone have a TV special, something no present day artist has received in decades. Bruno's testimony of a record executive suggesting they find a white person to sing the songs he wrote proves that racism and bigotry still resonates in the industry but not just of us black people but of non-white people. You'd think after Motown, the widespread popularity of R&B, soul, funk and disco in the 70s, Michael Jackson, Prince, various other black artists and new jack swing in the 80s, R&B and hip hop in the 90s up till the end of the 2000s and still to this day that racism would be a footnote in history but that is sadly, far from the truth. Bottom line, this backlash against Bruno for not being the "right" PoC is idiotic. That's only building more walls and further proving that people are never satisfied.

Is Sensei Aishitemasu Japanese?

talk about hypocracy...

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Sensei Aishitemasu got into a heated discussion about Bruno Mars, in which she slammed him for cultural appropriation. Watch here,

I totally agree with this about Bruno Mars!

http://hollywoodlife.com/2018/03/09/bruno-mars-cultural-appropriation-sensei-aishitemasu-diss-video/

The Wu-Tang Clan must be stopped.

StrangeButTrue said:

The Wu-Tang Clan must be stopped.

i wonder how this argument could be juxtaposed against the success of the 'black panther' motion picture in an industry traditionally controlled by white jews...or, more generally, the superhero phenomenon; which is, in essence, a jewish power fantasy from it's very inception. the black panther, specifically, was created by 40 something white jews...

is that 'cultural appropriation'? everybody seems to be pretty proud of the movie's success...

and, since i'm here...god, that sensei whozumwhatsits is an utter dumb ass...can we make a rule that if she's being discussed in a thread or any of her videos are linked to, it must be specified in the thread title to ensure my ability to avoid exposure to her bullshit?

[Edited 3/13/18 10:07am]

And there are African commentaries that are talking about (Black)-Americans appropriating African culture... maybe I'll send the sensei (why not sankofa) some links

OldFriends4Sale said: