Stephanie Mills telling THE TRUTH on the WHITE WASHING of RNB!

I understand both points of the argumnt. Appropriating black art has always been the tradition in America's pop culture (I see videos of Fred Astire who was influenced by Bojangles and rock music definitly came from black people) nothing new here. Stop complaining and support your artists instead, or better yet, make music and challenge the popular norm, aim for great music instead of sales. Anyway, I'm indifferent to Bruno's music because it simply lacks originality and genuine sentiments, but its not an issue as there are plenty of good music out there that I could always turn to. Yes I do agree with Meshell when she said that his music sound like "karaoke". But then again, so what? There are MANY people out there who love the guy, I can't discount that.

Scorp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Scorp said:

The real issue is the need for todays artist which are replicating a practice of the past 30 years to really make and craft and shape their own music Why is this so difficult to do now Thats really what all this comes down to

Why is this so difficult to do? When synthesizers, drum machines and 808s which have been on the market for nearly 40 years are the latest devices in music making technology, what more can be done with them that hasn't been heard already? Bruno should establish more of a persona but this idea that he absolutely must be completely unique is an outlandish expectation to have.

why is that an outlandish expectation.....

I'm not saying unique but authentic...exercising one's own musical expression and style....

if past music was off limits, they all would be forced to do it....and that why, these criticisms about cultural appopriation rather real or imagined wouldn't exist.....

that why, they would be encouraged to do their own thing to where their music will be revered and cause inspiration 20 years from now.......

"If Bruno Mars died tomorrow,I would bake a fucking cake"

these people are really terrible,smh

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Stephanie Mills telling THE TRUTH on the WHITE WASHING of RNB!

what she's saying is the moment those premier black artists who crafted that real r&b were phased outta the equation (that began in the late 80s"...real r&b died out, and it happened in stages

R&B became a category (mid 80’s), a demographic (late 80’s), a formula (early 90’s), a derivative (mid 90’s), a sub-culture (neo-soul in the late 90’s) as those neo-soul artists the erykah badus, jill scotts, angie stones, D'Angelos, Music Soulchilds, they all reverted not back to the 70s and 80s because r&b became so strained and disenfranchised by the mid 90s as they knew something was missing, and when that movement ended, r&b gave way to anything or anyone who would incorporate it into their existence (the beginning of new millennium)

and whoever is in position to incorporate it into their existence in this age is celebrated because that person "reminds" them as to how good it used to be

this stuff happened by design.....and it was sophisticated in process

all those premier black artists of the 80s were encouraged to see full scale pop stature, and that opened the door for everyone to tap into what was left behind as a basis to build their sound on, then it ramped up during the age of video. This would not have occurred if otherwise if those premier black artists were allowed to remain at the forefront of r&b

and all this shows that R&B, real r&b was the richest, most exciting music on the planet from a professional artist standpoint as representatives from all genres, hip-hop, rap, pop, rock, latin, have all tapped into it over the past quarter century....

[Edited 3/10/18 21:16pm]

nextedition said:

Scorp said:

deebee said:

I'm eternally impressed by human beings' ability to find new and elaborate ways to make life harder than it needs to be. I can only put it down to the excess energy of youth.

Exactly...! And thank you deebee. Human beings can be some strange mofo's.

I'm so glad that I'm at the age where i know how to live and let live.

And my take on Bruno Mars is let him be. I don't really listen to his music(just haven't got around to it), but i sure as hell rather listen to him than to the majority of today's popular black artists. Especially Rap artists. A lot of then fools are peddling BS, death and destruction, to their own(my) people. And i want no part of that shit.

Of course Bruno has a responsibility to be as authentic as possible, and i think he is trying to be. Also, dude didn't make things the way that they are. And i say don't hate the player, hate the game...

I don't care, love his music. His november show at The Apollo was nothing short of amazing.

thetimefan said:

Scorp said:

and this is why all these current age performers, white, black, hispanic, whoever it is and whatever their nationality, they need to learn how to orchestrate their own music and develop their own style, it would make for a better artist and a better music industry all round....

there wouldn't be these types of criticisms....

it would be more rewarding also knowing you've created something authentic....

rather than taking the lesser road already travelled......

the real question should be can anybody of today when they come of age make their own music....

there's one thing to be influenced by someone, but when it comes down to it, when the smoke clears, can they make their own music......

let's say sampling and interpolating would no longer be allowed...

THEN WHAT?....everyone is closing shop at that point

wo

they call out the past as OLD SCHOOL but continuously rely on it behind the scenes to help shape their sound or to draw interest......

it's a contradiction for the ages

[Edited 3/10/18 11:57am]

good points but why should they stay in one lane based on skin colour? It's 2018 skin colour shouldn't be an issue now should it?. It seems Sensei and co have developed a type of hatred for non black performers making R&B music. Which goes on to Stephanie Mills point, she's a top quality singer and should have had the props Whitney and co had and have. Why not is no doubt down to mismanagement of her career and record label politics. Which is why she falls into the unsung category. Should white folks get angry at In Living Color, Lenny Kravitz etc for making rock music? That's the type of petty argument bubbling under the service. It was through Motown being popular that stopped the secretion at some shows and The Beatles loved Motown so are they cultural appropriators to? Is Dusty? She got Motown their own TV special in the U.K. Does Chris Clark, R Dean Taylor get deleted from Motowns vault cause they are white?. Do they burn Michael McDonald, Hall and Oates etc records cause they white folks doing black music? Hall and Oates did a show with Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin and paid homage to them. So this colour bias is crazy and it's like saying everyone should categorise their music by colour.

the difference between Hall and Oates and Michael McDonald...they were inspired by the Motown sound, but they were first rate musicians who created their own music, they did not interpolate....

the criticism isn't as to whether a person who's not black makes r&b music as much as it is that they receive the rewards from it at the expense of those responsible for shaping that sound.....

when Hall and Oates and MIchael McDonald was making their classic records, those prominent r&b artists who were their contemporaries weren't being shafted/phased out at the same time

nextedition said:

Oh man...one day will we stop thinking in terms of race and skincolor.

That day can't come soon enough for me. To me personally there is only one race: the human race. The sooner we teach this to our children, the sooner the race 'problem' will be fixed and we can all live our lives in love and peace as the brothers and sisters we all really are.

Bruno has been bringing back music that no (major) black artists still do today. Although some of the 24K songs are quite derivative, they are still miles better and more interesting to me than what most black acts come up with today. IMO Bruno Mars is the hardest working man in showbizz at the moment and the most complete package in pop music right now. His Apollo show was fabulous and so was his 24K Magic tour. Like Babyface said, Bruno is the closest thing to someone like Prince or MJ we have in music today.

SoulAlive said:

funkaholic1972 said:

nextedition said:

Oh man...one day will we stop thinking in terms of race and skincolor.

That day can't come soon enough for me. To me personally there is only one race: the human race. The sooner we teach this to our children, the sooner the race 'problem' will be fixed and we can all live our lives in love and peace as the brothers and sisters we all really are.

Bruno has been bringing back music that no (major) black artists still do today. Although some of the 24K songs are quite derivative, they are still miles better and more interesting to me than what most black acts come up with today. IMO Bruno Mars is the hardest working man in showbizz at the moment and the most complete package in pop music right now. His Apollo show was fabulous and so was his 24K Magic tour. Like Babyface said, Bruno is the closest thing to someone like Prince or MJ we have in music today.

the question is why?....

how in the world was something so prominent 30 years ago changed to the point where one person on today's scene is providing remnants of it and receives celebration for it

It's not about him...it's about what gutted out the genre over the past quarter century that created this gap......

the black artists from the 80s such as a Stephanie Mills and so many others, they had to be phased out of the landscape in order for R&B music can be exploited to the tilt............that is the problem......thus the black artists who followed became pigeonholed into mainly performing the r&b/hybrid style of music, then pretty much hip-hop altogether

it had to be marginilized and given the impression that it was no longer relevant to make this possible when in reality, it was the richest music on the planet w/in the realm of professional music, thus the overabundance of sampling and interpolation

if R&B hadn't been gutted out, then there would never have been a need to bring anything back

over the past 25 years, particularly since the new millenium, the music audience has been conditioned to seek anyone else to perform just the remnants of r&b, as the majority of new black artists are automatically expected to perform hip-hop, mainly the male artists who debut on the scene.....

it's a trick for the ages and looking back on all of it, worked to perfection hook, line, and sinker

and in the end, in terms of the full range of black musical cultural expression, it has now been relegated to "oldies but goodies", and entrapment of sorts.

it had to be relegated to secondary status by removing those luminary r&b figures who was responsible for creating it.

and now because of that, anyone can take advantage of what used to be by reminding people how good it once was......

[Edited 3/11/18 7:51am]

214 said:

I don't care, love his music. His november show at The Apollo was nothing short of amazing.

[Edited 3/12/18 8:44am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

214 said:

I don't care, love his music. His november show at The Apollo was nothing short of amazing.

Oh yea!? The Apollo CBS special when he went to the hood in New York to give away free tickets to his performance? That was a prime example of "cultural appropriation". That was so fake to me. Knowing he would have NEVER step foot in that hood or EVER even been there in any other circumstance. He was trying to get his honorary "black card".

But I agree that performance was AMAZING! He knows how to keep peoples attention in the urban communities with his well rehearsed stage show. Plus has them ALL fooled into thinking he's black with his new afro.

Ignant

This pure B.S.

What is Marrs supposed 2 do? Not pretend 2 play the music that he likes?

Scorp said:

thetimefan said:

Scorp said:

the difference between Hall and Oates and Michael McDonald...they were inspired by the Motown sound, but they were first rate musicians who created their own music, they did not interpolate....

the criticism isn't as to whether a person who's not black makes r&b music as much as it is that they receive the rewards from it at the expense of those responsible for shaping that sound.....

when Hall and Oates and MIchael McDonald was making their classic records, those prominent r&b artists who were their contemporaries weren't being shafted/phased out at the same time

Good points but again if modern R&B artists where making music that was appealing then folks of any colour would buy them. Back in the day you had Luther, Whitney et al and also more under the radar artists who still put out quality records that's why they sold. Agreed H&O, Mike McDonald didn't steal but neither does Bruno. He's paid homage and isn't swagger jacking anyone. Doesn't cuss out other artists, doesn't use racial slurs, gives props etc. I don't believe he's stealing food of other artists plate. There's arguably no Luther, Whitney etc level artist now. Keith Sweat, Johnny Gill, DAngelo etc are still around but outside of D you get most acts in nostalgia labels like Shanachie etc. It's not white folks fault they not buying and supporting these artists. They probably bought Boyz II Men, Make it Last Forever by Keith, My My My by Johnny etc. As pp4 pointed out Bruno's latest record did like 3m copies and half of what his others did. So if Bruno is jacking musical genres and appropriating R&B then his sales are taking a hit. Again if its music he grew up to then so be it he's a fan and giving Babyface, Bobby props. For that I have no issue with him.

Thank you.

Someone else in this topic said it best: Don't hate the player, hate the game. Even if you decide to hate the player, why is it Bruno (someone who has shown nothing but respect and reverance for his influences and the music he makes as well as even made public statements in support of black artists and appreciating black culture) the one getting targeted for cultural appropriation?

Real cultural appropriators like Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and Miley Cyrus weren't getting the same volume of heat that Bruno seems to be getting. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I was against those three while I'm in support of Bruno but that's what it looks like.

This article sums up just how foolish this argument against Bruno is:

https://www.vibe.com/2018...ure-music/

thetimefan said:

Scorp said:

the difference between Hall and Oates and Michael McDonald...they were inspired by the Motown sound, but they were first rate musicians who created their own music, they did not interpolate....

the criticism isn't as to whether a person who's not black makes r&b music as much as it is that they receive the rewards from it at the expense of those responsible for shaping that sound.....

when Hall and Oates and MIchael McDonald was making their classic records, those prominent r&b artists who were their contemporaries weren't being shafted/phased out at the same time

Good points but again if modern R&B artists where making music that was appealing then folks of any colour would buy them. Back in the day you had Luther, Whitney et al and also more under the radar artists who still put out quality records that's why they sold. Agreed H&O, Mike McDonald didn't steal but neither does Bruno. He's paid homage and isn't swagger jacking anyone. Doesn't cuss out other artists, doesn't use racial slurs, gives props etc. I don't believe he's stealing food of other artists plate. There's arguably no Luther, Whitney etc level artist now. Keith Sweat, Johnny Gill, DAngelo etc are still around but outside of D you get most acts in nostalgia labels like Shanachie etc. It's not white folks fault they not buying and supporting these artists. They probably bought Boyz II Men, Make it Last Forever by Keith, My My My by Johnny etc. As pp4 pointed out Bruno's latest record did like 3m copies and half of what his others did. So if Bruno is jacking musical genres and appropriating R&B then his sales are taking a hit. Again if its music he grew up to then so be it he's a fan and giving Babyface, Bobby props. For that I have no issue with him.

It is a silly and pointless arguement. Marrs plays the music that he likes. Plain and simple.

I have said it before and I will say it again, these times, are more polarized people are MORE in a box and labelled then ever before. You are this and that because of this, you think there ever can be a stage where you have a Hall and Oates, Kool and the Gang, Lionel Richie, Earth Wind and Fire and Fleetwood mac and Chicago all sharing a stage?? or the same damn radio station? NO NO WAY in hell, i am tired of hearing how "oh these times, changes, this and that" I see us going backwards not forwards in most respects.

Graycap23 said:

thetimefan said:

Scorp said: Good points but again if modern R&B artists where making music that was appealing then folks of any colour would buy them. Back in the day you had Luther, Whitney et al and also more under the radar artists who still put out quality records that's why they sold. Agreed H&O, Mike McDonald didn't steal but neither does Bruno. He's paid homage and isn't swagger jacking anyone. Doesn't cuss out other artists, doesn't use racial slurs, gives props etc. I don't believe he's stealing food of other artists plate. There's arguably no Luther, Whitney etc level artist now. Keith Sweat, Johnny Gill, DAngelo etc are still around but outside of D you get most acts in nostalgia labels like Shanachie etc. It's not white folks fault they not buying and supporting these artists. They probably bought Boyz II Men, Make it Last Forever by Keith, My My My by Johnny etc. As pp4 pointed out Bruno's latest record did like 3m copies and half of what his others did. So if Bruno is jacking musical genres and appropriating R&B then his sales are taking a hit. Again if its music he grew up to then so be it he's a fan and giving Babyface, Bobby props. For that I have no issue with him.

It is a silly and pointless arguement. Marrs plays the music that he likes. Plain and simple.

I don't agree with your general consensus on Bruno but I'm glad you're not jumping on the appropriator bandwagon.

MotownSubdivision said:

Graycap23 said:

It is a silly and pointless arguement. Marrs plays the music that he likes. Plain and simple.

I don't agree with your general consensus on Bruno but I'm glad you're not jumping on the appropriator bandwagon.

Anyone who call him an appropriator is clueless.

What is he supposed 2 do? Not play the music that he likes?

lastdecember said:

I have said it before and I will say it again, these times, are more polarized people are MORE in a box and labelled then ever before. You are this and that because of this, you think there ever can be a stage where you have a Hall and Oates, Kool and the Gang, Lionel Richie, Earth Wind and Fire and Fleetwood mac and Chicago all sharing a stage?? or the same damn radio station? NO NO WAY in hell, i am tired of hearing how "oh these times, changes, this and that" I see us going backwards not forwards in most respects.

If you watch/listen to the Breakfast Club, Charlemagne tha God said that people today would never let Malcolm Little become Malcolm X, choosing to pick apart his past and other irrelevant details about him instead of allowing the man to decide his own future as he did.

That goes hand in hand with music today. With how touchy everybody has been allowed to be, nobody would be allowed to grow or change or create as they themselves are led too. Hall & Oates probably would've never gotten another video played on MTV after the first outcry of them "appropriating" R&B music. Kool & the Gang would've gotten slagged even more by black audiences for daring to make pop music.

It's one step forward and two steps back.

I'm funky as shit. I do know that.

It ain't Bruno's fault (or Eminem's or Adele's or Timberlake's or whoever) that every time a non-black does so-called "black" music well, they immedately shoot to the top. It's a reflection of society. Col Parker was right, all those years ago...