Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone." But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.
[Edited 2/8/18 6:16am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts? Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites. Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone." But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example. I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more. [Edited 2/8/18 6:16am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

I said last week (Reply #60) that the lack of black/minority artists being top line traditional R&B acts is an indictment of the industry, whose history with white artists playing "black music" is well known.

But I also think some of us lose sight of the fact that that kind of music was in its heyday 30-40 years ago. The small-p pop audiences aren't craving those sounds any more than, say, Gen-Xers were saying "nobody plays swing anymore!" in the 1980's. Straight ahead R&B has some age on it, and pop music is youth driven.


Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone."

But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.


The resentment really isn't about the color of the artists. I think it relates to white artists getting a much larger stage to play the same music artists of color play as well or better. Taking this R&B argument I don't discriminate in terms of the color of the artist -- if Remy Shand or Mayer Hawthorne or Moonchild makes a good R&B record. The larger problem is the demand for R&B. Bruno fits a neat niche, almost a novelty niche, which at least keeps the music on the radar.

I suggest another approach -- that audiences support more independent or off the radar artists of color outside the confines of the industry. If we want good music, we need to find it, especially since artists of color who don't fit the radio model of hitmakers, or playing more traditional R&B styles, won't get real industry push.

[Edited 2/8/18 9:12am]

namepeace said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

I said last week (Reply #60) that the lack of black/minority artists being top line traditional R&B acts is an indictment of the industry, whose history with white artists playing "black music" is well known.

But I also think some of us lose sight of the fact that that kind of music was in its heyday 30-40 years ago. The small-p pop audiences aren't craving those sounds any more than, say, Gen-Xers were saying "nobody plays swing anymore!" in the 1980's. Straight ahead R&B has some age on it, and pop music is youth driven.


Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone."

But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.


The resentment really isn't about the color of the artists. I think it relates to white artists getting a much larger stage to play the same music artists of color play as well or better. Taking this R&B argument I don't discriminate in terms of the color of the artist -- if Remy Shand or Mayer Hawthorne or Moonchild makes a good R&B record. The larger problem is the demand for R&B. Bruno fits a neat niche, almost a novelty niche, which at least keeps the music on the radar.

I suggest another approach -- that audiences support more independent or off the radar artists of color outside the confines of the industry. If we want good music, we need to find it, especially since artists of color who don't fit the radio model of hitmakers, or playing more traditional R&B styles, won't get real industry push.

[Edited 2/8/18 9:12am]

Very good points, namepeace that was my point too. It's not about an individual, it's about the industry that doesn't really support black people, or people of color like Bruno Mars, they way they do with white artists. And that is the problem.

But I must also state, that there aren't many white people who speak up about the problem. And I think there's the problem some black people have with white people. It really seems like, some white artists apropriate black culture but don't aknowledge their privilege that comes with being a white artist doing the exact same as a black artist and get more recognition because of their skin color. So I get why some black people scream "culture vulture".

Jesse Williams' speach at the BET awards was great, but only black people seemed to appreciate it, while white people felt offended. And this is another problem, some white people just can't accept that they have to stand up too. You say you love the black culture? Then be an ally and be a part of the movement against a racist industry who opresses the people of the culture you claim to admire.

SMH how the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]

Scorp said:

And whats crazy is, to phase out real r&b, Hip Hop was the tool used to do it

Hold on a minute, as far as I am concerned, no one on this thread that the industry is "wiping out" black artists. It is a well known fact that the industry promotes white, or POC RnB and Rap artists more because they look at them like they're somethin' special, when, infact, they're not special. Because as I said before, black people can do exactly the same but don't get the same credit. That is racism, praising white people wrongfully as pioneers such as Elvis, but he wasn't. Little Richard was before him and several other blacks.

I think That's what black people mean. And I think it's fair to say that the industry tries to "wipe out" the true pioneers. People rant about the racism in the industry and on none black artists who don't give credits where it's due.

Shawy89 said:

SMHhow the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]

[Edited 2/8/18 15:00pm]

Shawy89 said:

SMH how the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]

But again, I don't think that blanket statement that the industry is wiping out "black artists" fully describes the issue.

The debate here also involves whether traditional-straight ahead R&B is waning, and I think it is, largely because it has some age on it. Many of the artists who are associated in whole or in part with that sound now -- Bruno, Adele, Daft Punk, etc. -- are non-black, and are enjoying a lot of success for it.

That's not those artists' fault. While many black artists (including many you mentioned) are taking R&B in exciting new directions, they fit more in line with "future soul" than the kind of music Bruno has been selling. Which is why Bruno fits neatly into that breach appealing to audiences and older Grammy voters.

This has happened throughout the history of pop music. Black music, and black audiences, move from swing to jazz and blues to rock/"race" music to R&B/Soul to hip-hop. Then non-black artists come along, make it profitable, and to a degree, preserve and curate those sounds.

Some of this is racial, but not all "racist." And some of it is generational.