RodeoSchro said:

purple05 said:

MJ, Prince & Whitney sadly passed so young. Since we don't know any of these people, there are no definite answers only guesses. With that said, Madonna is the least talented of her peers but it seems she didn't let the pressure of the business get to her like they did. I personally think she wasn't held to the sane standard. There was no pressure to be perfect because quite honestly people were shocked that she was still around. Even if she had drug problems, she'd never be made into a laughing stock like MJ and Whitney were. Many black artist just aren't given the same room to mess up like their white counterparts are. Overall I think it's the pressure. Pressure from fans and society as well as from family. MJ and Whitney also had messed up family situations that let to their demise. Prince it's hard to pinpoint because at the moment not much is known

Prince and MJ had physical problems that led to their ultimate demise. At least, I guess so with MJ. I don't really know why he started taking pain killers but I assume it was because of pain. But my understanding/belief is that both men were in excrutiating pain and used medicine to relieve that pain. They didn't take pain killers because they were under pressure; they did it because they wanted to stop pain. I do not believe either man was a "drug addict" as the term is commonly used.

Anyway, Madonna did not overdose on anything; Prince and Michael Jackson accidentally did. That is the answer to your question, as I read it.

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Yes, but Michael was murdered by Conrad Murray.

purplethunder3121 said:

jaawwnn said:

cloveringold85 said:

RodeoSchro said:

worlds oldest profession???

purple05 said:

jaawwnn said:

It seems your main point is that she got away with it because she was white. It's a little reductionist but i'd say there's a lot of truth in that, she wasn't burdened with representing Black America like the rest of them.

Honestly it's nothing against Madonna. She can't help it that she was born white. It's the media that tends to be harsher toward minorities. I feel like they were often held to higher standards. I think the pressure from white and black media contributed to their demise. Definitely MJ and Whitney.

Still, Britney Spears faced far bigger backlash than any of her black contemporaries (Beyonce, Rihanna etc...) regardless of her talent.

The ONLY reason she had a comeback had nothing to do with people feeling sorry for her; it had to do with tabloids/media making money off of her comeback, which they did.

So on the one hand, her Vegas shows making her many millions (she's made far more after her peak as a performer than before/at her peak) for substandard performing could be seen as white privilage yet she's been a substantially exploited person in the recording industry no matter how rich she is.

Unrelated to the OP's point, but one thing I never got with all the criticism she's recieved in music is: why is it fine for the music industry to use Britney Spears but not ok for Britney Spears to use the music industry?

I'm surprised no one brought up Mariah!

cloveringold85 said:

I'm surprised no one brought up Mariah!

Mariah suffered from what was a supposed breakdown.

She hasn't found a F to give since, and I kinda admire her for that.

CynicKill said:

cloveringold85 said:

I'm surprised no one brought up Mariah!

Mariah suffered from what was a supposed breakdown.

She hasn't found a F to give since, and I kinda admire her for that.

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I was surprised she sang at times square for new years eve, considering the backlash she got last year. I think she did a great job, considering she didn't have her hot tea.

mnbvc said:

cloveringold85 said:

purple05 said:

cloveringold85 said:

I'm surprised no one brought up Mariah!

Mariah has largely gotten a pass too. The way they are tearing her vocal decline vs how they did Whitneys is very telling. Whitney never lipped or used tracks to fake like she was hitting notes in the 90s. Whitney was real about hers

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Yes, that is true, to some degree, but Mariah has been getting ripped a new one for a long time now with regard to her singing voice.

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Whitney did it live. She had much to say about these young one's who think they know about the business and hard work, LOL

purple05 said:

mnbvc said:

Still, Britney Spears faced far bigger backlash than any of her black contemporaries (Beyonce, Rihanna etc...) regardless of her talent.

The ONLY reason she had a comeback had nothing to do with people feeling sorry for her; it had to do with tabloids/media making money off of her comeback, which they did.

So on the one hand, her Vegas shows making her many millions (she's made far more after her peak as a performer than before/at her peak) for substandard performing could be seen as white privilage yet she's been a substantially exploited person in the recording industry no matter how rich she is.

Unrelated to the OP's point, but one thing I never got with all the criticism she's recieved in music is: why is it fine for the music industry to use Britney Spears but not ok for Britney Spears to use the music industry?

Rih came out/hit big much after Britney/Bey. Bey is like the only star that has never faced public backlash. Britney faced public backlash but she was still allowed to return. Rih faced a little backlash after the CB foolery but lately she has gotten her act together. As far as Britney goes, she was allowed to come back. Part of it has to do with the rise of social media. The industry/press doesn't make her relive her demons over and over. I'm not against Britney making money. If they are paying, why not get your money. I know I would lol

My point about her comeback was that her returning was really only because there was money to be made off of her 'comeback story' by tabloids and others. Her being in the public eye was due to how profitable she was to the media She was put on a pedestal, brought down and returned all to make money for the media/other people; that's why I have to be happy she's (very) rich.

Seriously people, enough of the Madonna bashing already, a lot of us really like her music and could not care she is nearly 60 or her last albums were not that great. But the fact remains, she was successful, was an icon and a woman in control of her own sexuality.

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Madonna is an icon - get used to it. I mean some of you guys get angry when we start talking shit about your favourites.

purple05 said:

MJ, Prince & Whitney sadly passed so young. Since we don't know any of these people, there are no definite answers only guesses. With that said, Madonna is the least talented of her peers but it seems she didn't let the pressure of the business get to her like they did.

I personally think she wasn't held to the sane standard. There was no pressure to be perfect because quite honestly people were shocked that she was still around. Even if she had drug problems, she'd never be made into a laughing stock like MJ and Whitney were. Many black artist just aren't given the same room to mess up like their white counterparts are.

Overall I think it's the pressure. Pressure from fans and society as well as from family. MJ and Whitney also had messed up family situations that let to their demise. Prince it's hard to pinpoint because at the moment not much is known

As I see it:

Madonna was more adept at reshaping her public image; she was a marketing genius.

Prince constantly reshaped his sound and his look. But his public image remained largely static throughout his career.

MJ, imo, was almost trapped by his megastar status. He was and is famous in ways maybe only 5 people could understand. This kept his public image largely static as well.

Her race was arguably a factor in being able to do things Prince and MJ couldn't/didn't do. Seems like she had more latitude to morph into whatever she needed to morph into to sell records and hold the public's attention. So maybe she wasn't as artistically driven as Prince, or as trapped by her own success as MJ.

She defied the odds. While her sales been slumping, people like it or not WANT TO SEE HER.


She is the highest grossing female concert artist for several years. Madonna scored the top-two highest-grossing concert tours of all time by a female artist with Sticky & Sweet Tour and The MDNA Tour.

She is a legend LIKE IT OR NOT

Concert receipts lie? I dont think so boo.

DEAL WITH IT

I read the whole thread, love Madona's music so much, yet I agree with many of the statements here about her not being a great vocalist.

214 said:

I read the whole thread, love Madona's music so much, yet I agree with many of the statements here about her not being a great vocalist.

She never claimed to be a great vocalist...

purplethunder3121 said:

214 said:

I read the whole thread, love Madona's music so much, yet I agree with many of the statements here about her not being a great vocalist.

She never claimed to be a great vocalist...

I know, I'm just saying.

........This thread.........

.........

...........

...........

datdude said:

Probably alrdy been said but the hoe still alive. End thread

Dang...

RJOrion said:

trick question

yep

purple05 said:

jaawwnn said:

It seems your main point is that she got away with it because she was white. It's a little reductionist but i'd say there's a lot of truth in that, she wasn't burdened with representing Black America like the rest of them.

Honestly it's nothing against Madonna. She can't help it that she was born white. It's the media that tends to be harsher toward minorities. I feel like they were often held to higher standards. I think the pressure from white and black media contributed to their demise. Definitely MJ and Whitney.

In de documentary "Can I be me" its said that one of the most upsetting things for Whitney had to go through is being booed by a black audience at the Soul Train Awards.

nextedition said:

purple05 said:

CynicKill said:

Madonna was definitely street smarter.

She realized that she had to put the business before the show.

She realized early on that she needed to take advantage of this huge publicity machine to make money instead of expecting them to pay her fairly.

Her talent was balancing perfectly the edgy with the commercial. And an uncanny sense of control.

Yes Madonna was more street smart but she was never held to the same standards IMO It's almost like she had a different relationship with the media than they did. She's very famous but they've never hounded her like they did MJ and Whitney

I think they were all held to high standards, but they took it in differently

Michael Jackson was held to a high standard only because of Thriller. I doubt race played a part in it.
He upped the game so high that even he could not regain that, BUT MJ being in the industry so much longer than Prince & Madonna, flowed differently or more easily (like how he flowed on that James Brown show vs how Prince did) Michael Jackson played with his 'character/vision/image' He didn't run from Thriller, he embraced it and continued giving fantasy color and adventure in his music/album covers/videos/concerts. He did not even run from his time as the Jackson 5 and incorporated that into his live shows, even if his brothers were not there.

Prince worked hard to gain the Purple Rain fame, and then spent a lot of time fighting the image/fame etc Prince tried to hard to control things, which makes people fight harder to get more from him.

Prince being held to a high standard, came from his own doing. 1978-1989 was a HIGH standard to follow. That foundational period is what everything following was built on. Prince (his bands) The Time Sheila E the Family Vanity 6 Madhouse etc the look the sound the vision for the musical periods and Utopian vision of Uptown Erotic City Paisley Park etc

After 1989 he could never duplicate that again. That was the standard set. And it was HIGH, but it was created by Prince.

With Madonna it could be because she is a woman. It is possible because women had to fight hard to be recognized on certain platforms, that she was not held to a standard as high as men because of gender. Did Sheila E have to work harder to get recognized like the Time? Was Jill Jones or Vanity 6 taken as serious?
Madonna dealt with media like people who know how to go out in the cold, let it infuse them and then move in it vs tightening up & shivering. She really embraced all areas of media and took risks.

I think she was held to high standards as well. She didn't become a superstar from her time period not having that. In the 80s into the 90s she did experience a level of opposition just being female, that Prince Michael or Bruce did not have to. Women will always, especially dealing with ageism. That whole Erotica period was an 'angry' response to it.
She also delivered an 'escapism' in her music videos and concerts. There is a level of visual imagery that people expect from her that is very high.

The camera loved her, the camera loved Prince, the camera loved Michael Jackson, the camera loved Bruce Springsteen too

Don't leave Bruce out of this...

purple05 said:

cloveringold85 said:

In a nutshell.....Madonna had determination and she was going to make it in the music business. She had the drive, confidence, hard work ethic and wasn't afraid to take risks. She was destined to be a star. Timing is everything; she came on the scene at the right time. When you want something bad enough, there is nothing that can stop you.

To be fair, they all came on the scene at the right time.. but the rest would still have careers without MTV

Can you say that for sure?
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Anyone even Madonna could have a career in music with MTV.

Her album was getting heavy radio play (on black stations as well) before anyone knew she was Italian-American. Or before anyone saw her. She delivered very good music. If she didn't she would not have lasted.

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You cannot deny MTV's influence in catapulting Michael's career, that was so based on the visual.
Thriller, Beat It, Billy Jean, the Victory tour the photosessions the mini movies and such that followed all played a HUGE role in Michael Jackson superstardom

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Prince the same. Prince learned how to embrace that camera and you started to see it in the Controversy videos. But when he and his band 'stepped out on the stage' with Little Red Corvette, it was all over. Purple Rain (the movie) played a HUGE part in Prince's superstardom. And it was a bit of Prince's lack of promotion that slowed his success or wrong promotions.