purple05 said:

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

alphastreet said:

lastdecember said:

lastdecember said:

purple05 said:

lastdecember said:

Madonna always pushed the right buttons. But also we forget that Madonna and MJ were hits right out the box Prince was always the local boy in town and then he was really underground for a few years in the 90’s and also it all was on him, Madonna and MJ had teams around them, writers and producers, Prince was always the yes and NO man he answered to no one. So to be honest I don’t lump Madonna in with Prince I’d put Prince more in the Springsteen world, as for Madonna i put her in with people like Mariah JLo and Britney.

I disagree. Madonna was t a hit right out of the box. It took her some time and a few tries before she hit big. With MJ the j5 they toured the chitlin circuit before Motown. With his solo career it didn't reach the heights it did until he took control. Prince had help at his label as well as far as marketing. His label invested in him like MJ and Madonnas label invested in them

Prince was not a star till the fifth album, Madonna was a hit album one. If we want to count how long it took people to get signed we can factor in the fact that no one wanted Prince at first he had to be shopped a bit. Totally different types of artists no comparison between Prince and then Madonna and MJ like I said. Madonna didnt have years where she was not in, the albums didnt really start dropping sales wise till very late in her career which is what happens to all artists when they get older there fans get older and forget about you especially buying your new records. Prince was in an out of success and honestly if Purple Rain would have tanked or not been half of what it was you can bet WB would have cut him off and try to curb his output a lot sooner. MJ is a tough one because are we counting the Jackson Five or just MJ as a solo artist, because I cant Factor in Jackson Five because its not all MJ and Madonna and Prince were not his peers then.

Madonna has a major label backing her promotional and touring efforts, so someone else absorbs some of those costs. Thus money saved and be redistributed towards other things. When a new album dropped, she was all in with the project and the record labels/radio stations signed on as well. As I stated, I believe she is a shrewd business person and knows how to make her money work for her.

That reminds me of a quote of what Nile Rodgers said about Madonna when they were working on the Like A Virgin album. At the time her first album had already been out for awhile and was only just then beginning to take off (so no overnight sensation there). While making the album Madonna said that "Time is money and the money is mine." So she definitely was aware of the importance of the business part of her career as well as the actual music part. In the 30+ plus years of her career there never really has been any reports of her having financial difficulties or problems.

UncleJam said:

It's easy......Madonna is always reinventing herself and keeps her music fresh and on-trend. She has the money and power to pay for the best musicians on the planet, not to mention the best fashion, set designers, costume designers and on and on......

lastdecember said:

phillymonster said:

cloveringold85 said:

purple05 said:

cloveringold85 said:

It's easy......Madonna is always reinventing herself and keeps her music fresh and on-trend. She has the money and power to pay for the best musicians on the planet, not to mention the best fashion, set designers, costume designers and on and on......

Yes but I wasn't speaking of music career

If you are referring to longevity health-wise, Madonna was a trained dancer and adapted a pretty healthy life-style at a fairly early point in her career...

purple05 said:

lastdecember said:

Prince was not a star till the fifth album, Madonna was a hit album one. If we want to count how long it took people to get signed we can factor in the fact that no one wanted Prince at first he had to be shopped a bit. Totally different types of artists no comparison between Prince and then Madonna and MJ like I said. Madonna didnt have years where she was not in, the albums didnt really start dropping sales wise till very late in her career which is what happens to all artists when they get older there fans get older and forget about you especially buying your new records. Prince was in an out of success and honestly if Purple Rain would have tanked or not been half of what it was you can bet WB would have cut him off and try to curb his output a lot sooner. MJ is a tough one because are we counting the Jackson Five or just MJ as a solo artist, because I cant Factor in Jackson Five because its not all MJ and Madonna and Prince were not his peers then.

There is a valid comparison. Madonna nor MJ received instant success. The Jackson5 were turned down many times before they got signed. MJ first 4 solo albums did so poorly that people forget he had solo albums before OTW. So it is a valid comparison. None of them had instant solo success straight out of the box and they all faltered in the 90s with the changing musical landscape. They weren't seen as 'cool' anymore when hip hop and grunge came in. Madonna was outsold and outcharted in the 90s by Mariah, Whitney and Janet. It wasn't until ROL(late 90s) and the 00s that Madonna regained her status. MJ was able to hit with Dangerous because NJS fit him so well vocally and his overall style. But after that most of his success was overseas. Sony didn't release or heavily promote his albums in the US after Dangerous. He also toured overseas exclusively as well. This isn't about who you think is more talented.

.

Very true!

.

When Madonna's "Everybody" (1983)....first album came out is around the time people started to notice her. Everyone thought she was a black singer/artist. People wanted to know who she was. Madonna made herself known by hanging out and performing in the clubs and she met the right people who would connect her in the business. Things were different back then. She was also female, which I think had a lot to do with her overnight success.

.

Prince, on the other hand was entirely different. Different music, image, etc. A lot of people didn't quite get his vibe and who is he was as a person and/or artist.

.

Michael Rosenblatt, who worked at the artists and repertoire department of Sire, commented that,

"Madonna is great. She will do anything to be a star, and that's exactly what I look for in an artist: total co-operation... With Madonna, I knew I had someone hot and co-operative, so I planned to build her career with singles, rather than just put an album right away and run the risk of disaster.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...onna_song)

purple05 said:

phillymonster said:

Is this thread a joke? Besides having a technically better voice, how in the world is Whitney more talented than Madonna? I saw both in concert and Madonna created the most exciting experience I saw up to that point. You must be an idiot who thinks Madonna, as a woman, never had to live up to any pressure You completely ignore the truth in order to produce your own agenda.

Madonna puts on a excellent stage show but she's not naturally talented. She knows how to market herself, trends, what looks great and an ear for music but that's not talent relating to her profession. No one is expecting Madonna to deliver studio perfect vocals night after night or deliver high energy dance moves that seem to defy gravity. MJ and Whitney had to be perfect or they were ridiculed. Madonna had never been under that kind of pressure. No one takes Madonna seriously in that way [Edited 1/1/18 14:37pm]

.

Exactly! Madonna has excellent marketing skills and an eye for detail.....she means business. She works with the best in the business and does not accept second best. I admire her strength and business savvy. She took a lot of risks. I think a lot of her success also has to do with timing. She came around at the right time in the music industry. The record companies saw how unique she was and took a gamble on her.

purple05 said:

cloveringold85 said:

It's easy......Madonna is always reinventing herself and keeps her music fresh and on-trend. She has the money and power to pay for the best musicians on the planet, not to mention the best fashion, set designers, costume designers and on and on......

Yes but I wasn't speaking of music career

.

Yes, but you don't have to have the best singing voice to be a huge success. Madonna has the whole package......stage presence, she knows what looks good, has the best dancers, musicians.....great marketing......

.

As another example, I will mention Neyo, because I happen to admire him as a performer and someone with hard work ethic. He does not have the greatest voice, but he has natural talent and can dance and has great stage presence. Along with Chris Brown, Usher and the like......even JT falls into that category. Again, not the greatest voice we've ever heard but he can blow the crowd away......like Madonna. I give credit where credit is due and I think Madonna is one of the hardest working female artists in the industry. She's paid her dues.

.

Whitney was an incredible singer...she could belt-out a tune like nobody's business. I respect them both.

purplethunder3121 said:

purple05 said:

cloveringold85 said: Yes but I wasn't speaking of music career

If you are referring to longevity health-wise, Madonna was a trained dancer and adapted a pretty healthy life-style at a fairly early point in her career...

.

Yes, Madonna started out in performing arts, so she knew about stage presence.

cloveringold85 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

If you are referring to longevity health-wise, Madonna was a trained dancer and adapted a pretty healthy life-style at a fairly early point in her career...

.

Yes, Madonna started out in performing arts, so she knew about stage presence.

She learned proper techniques to avoid injury (if possible) over the years and she always rigorously trained to keep her body in shape. Some would say she over-trained...

purplethunder3121 said:

It seems your main point is that she got away with it because she was white. It's a little reductionist but i'd say there's a lot of truth in that, she wasn't burdened with representing Black America like the rest of them.

Graycap23 said:

purple05 said:

Graycap23 said: When I say peer I'm speaking of age group and the time of the adult solo success. Would you agree she is a peer in that regard?

Peer:a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age,background, and social status.

Based on this definition, the answer is NO.

I'm with you; it's clear to me Madge isn't in the same artistic orbit as MJ or Prince.
However comma.

I'm not so sure that the definition of peer is that specific. Several definitions exist; but generally speaking, it is about having equal or approximate standing. In the world of popular music, in some sense, Madge is a peer in terms of commercial success and being a household name.

Peer status depends on the context. In different ways, MJ is not Prince's peer. In still other ways, Prince isn't MJ's. But the three artists were each prolific hitmakers and sellers in one of the biggest decades of small-r rock music. Draw the Venn diagram and they'll all wind up sharing an area.

In a nutshell.....Madonna had determination and she was going to make it in the music business. She had the drive, confidence, hard work ethic and wasn't afraid to take risks. She was destined to be a star. Timing is everything; she came on the scene at the right time. When you want something bad enough, there is nothing that can stop you.

NorthC said:

Prince, Madonna and Michael Jackson were the most famous acts of the 1980s. That's beyond doubt. They're in the same "peer status" alright. Regardless of who had the most talent. (Guess why I named Prince first... )

.

purple05 said:

MJ, Prince & Whitney sadly passed so young. Since we don't know any of these people, there are no definite answers only guesses. With that said, Madonna is the least talented of her peers but it seems she didn't let the pressure of the business get to her like they did. I personally think she wasn't held to the sane standard. There was no pressure to be perfect because quite honestly people were shocked that she was still around. Even if she had drug problems, she'd never be made into a laughing stock like MJ and Whitney were. Many black artist just aren't given the same room to mess up like their white counterparts are. Overall I think it's the pressure. Pressure from fans and society as well as from family. MJ and Whitney also had messed up family situations that let to their demise. Prince it's hard to pinpoint because at the moment not much is known

Prince and MJ had physical problems that led to their ultimate demise. At least, I guess so with MJ. I don't really know why he started taking pain killers but I assume it was because of pain. But my understanding/belief is that both men were in excrutiating pain and used medicine to relieve that pain. They didn't take pain killers because they were under pressure; they did it because they wanted to stop pain. I do not believe either man was a "drug addict" as the term is commonly used.

Anyway, Madonna did not overdose on anything; Prince and Michael Jackson accidentally did. That is the answer to your question, as I read it.