purple05 said:

Outside of Beyoncé singing talents, she isn't leaps and bounds above them. Performing/Concerts: Beyoncé is a better singer but Janet has her beat dancing. Madonna isnt good at either but her presentation is great. As far as concerts, all three put on excellent shows in their prime. Janet's arent as great present day because she has no budget. Songwriting: Beyoncé isn't anymore of a songwriter than Janet or Madonna. I don't think any of them have any solo writing credits. Beyoncé kills her vocal production but Janets is pretty tight as well. Music Videos: Beyoncé vids overall are average. Her best to date has been Lemonade. Janet & Madonna have some of the best videos. Catalog: Beyoncé catalog isn't as strong as theirs either. Beys best albums are 4 and Lemonade. You can argue that Madonna and Janet had a runs of 4-5 great albums With all said, to me they are pretty equal with Bey being the reigning Queen. So why are Janet and Madonna given their due? Is it because their singing is average? [Edited 12/13/17 14:59pm] [Edited 12/13/17 15:00pm] [Edited 12/13/17 15:01pm]

I think your argument is invalid and you are comparing artists who have been around LONG before Beyonce and have already reached double career heights before Boyince.

It is not a right or fair comparison to put a 2000's solo artist against those who began their careers 1982 - 1983.

Beyoncé and Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, etc. are social media era stars and older singers like Madonna, Janet, Annie Lennox, & Pat Benatar aren't. When Janet & Madonna were hot, did a lot of people talk about Cyd Charisse or Ella Fitzgerald or Donna Summer? There wasn't an internet then either. The media is always going to focus on whoever is hot at the moment more than someone whos hitmaking days was decades ago. The younger audience doesn't really care about Run DMC, like they do about G-Eazy or Post Malone. Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Queen Latifah, & LL Cool J are more known for acting today than music.

I don't even think Beyonce goes with those other artists, she is a generation ahead of them all, sandwiched between janet and the rest

She is a visual artist who always had consistent music videos, and actually has talent.

How is she big like them? Well, she was inspired by them which was never a big secret, and starting at same time as britney probably worked to her advantage, with britney and beyonce being the baby madonna and janet for their generation. And cause she has an old school vibe too stemming from her boot camp training from early age, the older crowd likes her, and hip hop being predominant as a genre, expands her audience more.

She and her handlers are clever at marketing and have studied everyone and their mother's career and could have very well written the idiots guide to not ruining your career.

Fan or not, she is one of the few who has lasted 20 years on a mainstream and been consistent. It doesn't make her biggest star ever, but a consistent one.

And actually I prefer solange over her, but that's just me.

[Edited 12/13/17 16:04pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Beyoncé and Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, etc. are social media era stars and older singers like Madonna, Janet, Annie Lennox, & Pat Benatar aren't. When Janet & Madonna were hot, did a lot of people talk about Cyd Charisse or Ella Fitzgerald or Donna Summer? There wasn't an internet then either. The media is always going to focus on whoever is hot at the moment more than someone whos hitmaking days was decades ago. The younger audience doesn't really care about Run DMC, like they do about G-Eazy or Post Malone. Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Queen Latifah, & LL Cool J are more known for acting today than music.

This is true. Beyonce should really only be compared to P!nk, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera Kelly Clarkson etc... her peers. It seems that because she's obviously outlasted some of them (partially due to elements out of their control) they compare her to predecessors.

It's kind of amusing that everybody likes comparing Britney to Beyonce with the sole purpose to Britney down but how come nobody compares Beyonce and P!nk? They clearly started at around the same time and P!nk has been pretty much as consistent Beyonce.

paisleypark4 said:

MickyDolenz said:

mnbvc said:

MickyDolenz said:

Beyoncé and Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, etc. are social media era stars and older singers like Madonna, Janet, Annie Lennox, & Pat Benatar aren't. When Janet & Madonna were hot, did a lot of people talk about Cyd Charisse or Ella Fitzgerald or Donna Summer? There wasn't an internet then either. The media is always going to focus on whoever is hot at the moment more than someone whos hitmaking days was decades ago. The younger audience doesn't really care about Run DMC, like they do about G-Eazy or Post Malone. Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Queen Latifah, & LL Cool J are more known for acting today than music.

This is true. Beyonce should really only be compared to P!nk, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera Kelly Clarkson etc... her peers. It seems that because she's obviously outlasted some of them (partially due to elements out of their control) they compare her to predecessors.

It's kind of amusing that everybody likes comparing Britney to Beyonce with the sole purpose to Britney down but how come nobody compares Beyonce and P!nk? They clearly started at around the same time and P!nk has been pretty much as consistent Beyonce.

I don't think britney and beyonce are anything alike, but they are the same age, had TRL hits at the same time so a very similar audience generation wise. Pink is a brilliant artist, but I don't think even she wanted to be in the same category as them though her debut gave her good exposure, and the audience to break out out of "anti-TRL" crowd. They knew what they were doing.

[Edited 12/13/17 18:45pm]

mnbvc said:

MickyDolenz said:

Beyoncé and Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, etc. are social media era stars and older singers like Madonna, Janet, Annie Lennox, & Pat Benatar aren't. When Janet & Madonna were hot, did a lot of people talk about Cyd Charisse or Ella Fitzgerald or Donna Summer? There wasn't an internet then either. The media is always going to focus on whoever is hot at the moment more than someone whos hitmaking days was decades ago. The younger audience doesn't really care about Run DMC, like they do about G-Eazy or Post Malone. Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Queen Latifah, & LL Cool J are more known for acting today than music.

Unfortunately by 1992 the Hip Hop audience had already moved on from Run DMC.

A Tribe Called Quest, Heavy D, and West Coast rap was killing it then.

nextedition said:

I didnt know beyonce was considered that talented. On the org she gets critisized a lot. She does has a way stronger voice (i like janets voice more, but it isnt strong) and as they are all singers in the first place, a voice is pretty important

Some people here don't like anything. But you must haven't come across the Beyhive. Beyoncé has won more Grammys than the other 2 though.

Beyoncé - 22 Grammys (63 nominations)
Madonna - 7 Grammys (28 nominations)
Janet Jackson - 5 Grammys (26 nominations)

You can also compare that to some other acts:

Quincy Jones - 27 (79)

Georg Solti - 31 (74) most wins

The Beatles - 7 (23)

B.B. King - 15 (30)

Shirley Caesar - 11 (28)

Elvis Presley - 3 (14)

Michael Jackson - 13 (38)

Stevie Wonder - 25 (74)

Dolly Parton - 8 (47)

Lionel Richie - 4 (32)

Prince - 7 (38)

Jay-Z - 21 (74)

Adele - 15 (18)

Taylor Swift - 10 (31)

Beastie Boys - 3 (10)

Carole King - 4 (8)

Paul Simon - 16 (35)

Aretha Franklin - 18 (44)

George Benson - 10 (25)

Herbie Hancock - 14 (34)

Mariah Carey - 5 (34)

Whitney Houston - 6 (25)

Rolling Stones - 2 (12)

purple05 said:

Outside of Beyoncé singing talents, she isn't leaps and bounds above them talent wise.

Performing/Concerts:
Beyoncé is a better singer than both but Janet has her beat dancing. Madonna isnt good at either but her presentation is great. As far as concerts, all three put on excellent shows in their prime. Janet's arent as great present day because she has no budget.

Songwriting:
Beyoncé isn't anymore of a songwriter than Janet or Madonna. I don't think any of them have any solo writing credits. Beyoncé kills her vocal production but Janets is pretty tight as well.

Music Videos:
Beyoncé vids overall are average. Her best to date has been Lemonade. Janet & Madonna have some of the best videos.

Catalog:
Beyoncé catalog isn't as strong as theirs either. Beys best albums are 4 and Lemonade. You can argue that Madonna and Janet had a runs of 4-5 great albums

With all said, to me they are pretty equal with Bey being the reigning Queen. So why are Janet and Madonna given their due?
Is it because their singing is average?

Who the hell are you talking to that says Janet - a woman on tour with little corporate sponsorship and even less promotion yet is selling out every damn venue she's in - is less talented? You get lost in the lights and videos. Janet is selling out venues left and right with not a lot of production in comparison to something like All For You or The Velvet Rope. That speaks volumes to her appeal. I can't even imagine the price of tickets to The Formation Tour. I never looked. Madonna's not cheap either. But it's not always about the flash and storytelling. It's about the artist. If I wanted to go see a light show, I'd go to the state fair and watch a Pink Floyd laser show. Janet has no budget. BWWHAHAHA. OK THEN. So that argument is invalid.

Same with Madonna. She's still selling out stadiums across the fucking planet, putting out a DVD/CD for every tour (something I wish Janet did but hasn't since 2001's All For You Tour), writing her songs and working with established and new and up'n'coming producers, always putting out an edgier and fresher sound (although some of it I don't personally like, I recognize what she's doing). That argument is invalid.

You should do your homework more often on songwriting credits. Songs like "Black Cat" are solely written by Janet. While she does work with Jam & Lewis, it's when she doesn't or lets someone else fully write a song that her work suffers (ie: Discipline, 20 Y.O.). Hell, she's had people like Jay-Z and Cathy Dennis write for her and those songs were incredibly inferior to anything else she's ever recorded. None of the three women write 100% solo, despite Beyonce saying she does. She pays off writers to put her name on things, but she ain't writing all those albums. Look at the credits on BEYONCÉ. Great record, but goddamn the list of writers! How did she ever get paid for that?!?! So that argument is invalid.

Bey is queen to the beyhive. In reality, she pays great respect to Janet Jackson and if her younger listeners pay attention, they know where Bey's influences came from. Given their due? You need better friends and get off the internet.

Beyonce is the one artist I don't get! There is not a single song of hers that I would consider classic. I remember when Single Ladies came out how every one was tripping and I was just I must give her her dues in performing though. Good live act.

In fact I think Britney has the better back catalogue (2001 and onwards) out of the two.

But the only person from that era that I would consider amazing is Christina Aguilera. Back to Basics (and especially) Stripped are some of the best pop albums of the last 15 years. I think she got this reputation of having her bitchy ways that people always forget about her

flawless record

purple05 said:

Outside of Beyoncé singing talents, she isn't leaps and bounds above them talent wise. Performing/Concerts: Beyoncé is a better singer than both but Janet has her beat dancing. Madonna isnt good at either but her presentation is great. As far as concerts, all three put on excellent shows in their prime. Janet's arent as great present day because she has no budget. Songwriting: Beyoncé isn't anymore of a songwriter than Janet or Madonna. I don't think any of them have any solo writing credits. Beyoncé kills her vocal production but Janets is pretty tight as well. Music Videos: Beyoncé vids overall are average. Her best to date has been Lemonade. Janet & Madonna have some of the best videos. Catalog: Beyoncé catalog isn't as strong as theirs either. Beys best albums are 4 and Lemonade. You can argue that Madonna and Janet had a runs of 4-5 great albums With all said, to me they are pretty equal with Bey being the reigning Queen. So why are Janet and Madonna given their due? Is it because their singing is average? [Edited 12/13/17 14:59pm] [Edited 12/13/17 15:00pm] [Edited 12/13/17 15:01pm] [Edited 12/13/17 18:04pm] [Edited 12/13/17 18:05pm] [Edited 12/13/17 18:06pm]

They do. Janet Jackson is the sole author of Black Cat.

TrivialPursuit said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

LightOfArt said:

purple05 said:

If I had to guess I'd say Crazy In Love or Single Ladies is her classic. Beyonces last three albums are by far better than her first 3, especially 4 and Lemonade.

The last B record I can remember is Drunk In Love, which was nice enough.

Yes I guess those are her most memorable songs. But I don't think they are classic songs in the way Like A Prayer and Rhythm Nation are.

Anyway I will shut up about Beyonce. That's one fan base that really scares me.

purple05 said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

They do. Janet Jackson is the sole author of Black Cat.

Yes Janet has one song, what about Madonna and Beyoncé? But that's not my point.

Lucky Star, Burning Up, I Know It, Think Of Me, Everybody, Shoo-Bee-Doo, Gambler, Hey You...

rlittler81 said:

LightOfArt said:

purple05 said:

You need to calm down and back away from the minister and the keyboard because I clearly asked a question

Lighten up. I clearly answered your question.

purple05 said:

LightOfArt said:

Not even the MJ fans?!

I released doves for each non-guilty verdict back in 2005 so I think I'd be fine with MJ fans

Wouldnt that be such a huge internet meme in this day and age

[Edited 12/14/17 8:54am]

MickyDolenz said:

LightOfArt said:

Beyonce is the one artist I don't get! There is not a single song of hers that I would consider classic. I remember when Single Ladies came out how every one was tripping and I was just I must give her her dues in performing though. Good live act.

In fact I think Britney has the better back catalogue (2001 and onwards) out of the two.

But the only person from that era that I would consider amazing is Christina Aguilera. Back to Basics (and especially) Stripped are some of the best pop albums of the last 15 years. I think she got this reputation of having her bitchy ways that people always forget about her

flawless record

Let me add:

stpaisios said:

LightOfArt said:

stuff

Let me add:

oh yes

I'm off to my itunes to play Slow and have some whiskey. Is that one of the sexiest songs ever or what?

gandorb said:

While I really liked Beyonce's last LP, I do think she has partially gotten so many grammys from a old white musical establishment who never embraced hip-hop but felt like they needed to award a safe black artist so no one would accuse them of racism.

Both Jay Z & Kanye West have won 21 Grammys each though. OutKast has 6, Eminem has 15, MC Hammer has 3, Beastie Boys have 3, Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince have 2, Lil Wayne has 5, P. Diddy has 3, Digable Planets have 1, & Lauryn Hill has 8, including ones with The Fugees & Santana.

LightOfArt said:

stpaisios said:

Let me add:

oh yes

I'm off to my itunes to play Slow and have some whiskey. Is that one of the sexiest songs ever or what?

I don't no how she does it, but Kylie was always a living muse...

stpaisios said:

flawless record

Let me add:

She has just been putting out great album after great album...and gets ignored.