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Reply #30 posted 04/24/17 8:06am

Curtwill1975

Free2BMe said:

Michael Jackson Jackson 5 Marvin Gaye Stevie Wonder Aretha Franklin Earth, Wind and Fire Prince Teena Marie Patti Labelle Beyoncé/Destiny Child Luther Vandross R Kelly Teddy Riley Rick James Parliament Funkadelic Whitney Houston Mary J Blidge Janet Jackson Maxwell Sade George Michael

Explain....not being sarcastic or anything. I'm actually intrigued by this nomination.

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Reply #31 posted 04/24/17 9:21am

LittleBLUECorv
ette

avatar

I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #32 posted 04/24/17 11:05am

Curtwill1975

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.

For me, it's because he's part of the "Motown Era" and since I had limited the nominations to 10, I wanted to nominated those who got their fame in the 70s and made a major contribution to Contemporary R&B. He's basically the "father of contemporary R&B"(re: Off the Wall), in fact, since I made the thread, I would name the Contemporary R&B HOF after him.

[Edited 4/24/17 12:37pm]

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Reply #33 posted 04/24/17 11:43am

LittleBLUECorv
ette

avatar

Curtwill1975 said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.



For me, it's because he's part of the "Motown Era" and since I had limited the nominations to 10, I wanted to nominated those who got their fame in the 70s and made a major contribution to Contemporary R&B. He's basically the "father of contemporary R&B"(re: Off the Wall), in fact, since I made the thread, I would the Contemporary R&B HOF after him.


True but how many are saying any of the J5 albums are inspirations? It's always his Epic solos.

It's no different than Marvin Gaye. He was around in the 60s but how many are saying they were influenced by Hitch Hike and Pride and Joy as opposed to Whats goin On and I Want You?
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #34 posted 04/24/17 12:36pm

Curtwill1975

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Curtwill1975 said:

For me, it's because he's part of the "Motown Era" and since I had limited the nominations to 10, I wanted to nominated those who got their fame in the 70s and made a major contribution to Contemporary R&B. He's basically the "father of contemporary R&B"(re: Off the Wall), in fact, since I made the thread, I would the Contemporary R&B HOF after him.

True but how many are saying any of the J5 albums are inspirations? It's always his Epic solos. It's no different than Marvin Gaye. He was around in the 60s but how many are saying they were influenced by Hitch Hike and Pride and Joy as opposed to Whats goin On and I Want You?

Those are very salient points. Like I said, it was a hypothetical thread because this probably won't happen but you're making good points which is why I made this thread.

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Reply #35 posted 04/24/17 1:03pm

MickyDolenz

avatar

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.

I'm pretty much going by what I hear and see. On average, the current popular R&B act has a rap break, not a guitar or sax solo. That to me is more a BBD influence than a Michael Jackson one. The image of the popular male singers is not really an androgynous look either. The subject matter of current R&B hits is less Michael Jackson and more hip hop to me too. If you look at the current main R&B singles chart in Billboard, most of it is rap.

.

1 Bruno Mars - That's What I Like
2 Kendrick Lamar - Humble.
3 KYLE Featuring Lil Yachty - iSpy
4 Future - Mask Off
5 Lil Uzi Vert - XO TOUR Llif3
6 Kodak Black - Tunnel Vision
7 The Weeknd Featuring Daft Punk - I Feel It Coming
8 Migos Featuring Lil Uzi Vert - Bad And Boujee
9 Post Malone Featuring Quavo - Congratulations
10 Khalid - Location

Even if you look at the top 10 of this week's adult R&B singles chart, the singer that might have a more direct Mike influence is Bruno Mars. I think Charlie Wilson is more Stevie Wonder than Mike.

1 Charlie Wilson Featuring T.I. - I'm Blessed
2 Bruno Mars - 24K Magic
3 Childish Gambino - Redbone
4 Mary J. Blige - U + Me (Love Lesson)
5 Leela James - Don't Want You Back
6 Yuna - Best Love
7 La'Porsha Renae - Good Woman
8 After 7 - Runnin' Out
9 Johnny Gill Featuring Jaheim - 5,000 Miles
10 Kevin Ross - Long Song Away

.

I've heard some performers say they were influnced by Muhammad Ali & Bruce Lee. That may be so. But are they a direct influence on their music and/or image? Probably not. They might say Mike is an influence on their career in the same way, but I don't hear it in the actual music of some of the current acts. It's probably more a work ethic influence, than a musical one.


For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #36 posted 04/24/17 2:02pm

Curtwill1975

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.

I'm pretty much going by what I hear and see. On average, the current popular R&B act has a rap break, not a guitar or sax solo. That to me is more a BBD influence than a Michael Jackson one. The image of the popular male singers is not really an androgynous look either. The subject matter of current R&B hits is less Michael Jackson and more hip hop to me too. If you look at the current main R&B singles chart in Billboard, most of it is rap.

.

1 Bruno Mars - That's What I Like
2 Kendrick Lamar - Humble.
3 KYLE Featuring Lil Yachty - iSpy
4 Future - Mask Off
5 Lil Uzi Vert - XO TOUR Llif3
6 Kodak Black - Tunnel Vision
7 The Weeknd Featuring Daft Punk - I Feel It Coming
8 Migos Featuring Lil Uzi Vert - Bad And Boujee
9 Post Malone Featuring Quavo - Congratulations
10 Khalid - Location

Even if you look at the top 10 of this week's adult R&B singles chart, the singer that might have a more direct Mike influence is Bruno Mars. I think Charlie Wilson is more Stevie Wonder than Mike.

1 Charlie Wilson Featuring T.I. - I'm Blessed
2 Bruno Mars - 24K Magic
3 Childish Gambino - Redbone
4 Mary J. Blige - U + Me (Love Lesson)
5 Leela James - Don't Want You Back
6 Yuna - Best Love
7 La'Porsha Renae - Good Woman
8 After 7 - Runnin' Out
9 Johnny Gill Featuring Jaheim - 5,000 Miles
10 Kevin Ross - Long Song Away

.

I've heard some performers say they were influnced by Muhammad Ali & Bruce Lee. That may be so. But are they a direct influence on their music and/or image? Probably not. They might say Mike is an influence on their career in the same way, but I don't hear it in the actual music of some of the current acts. It's probably more a work ethic influence, than a musical one.


What you're talking about is how influence the Merging of R&B and Hip Hop has evolved and helped to shape who Contempory R&B currently sounds but you have to realize that that those sounds had a genesis and a blueprint influenced for it manifest and progress. For example, the concept of merging of R&B and Hop Hop started from the 70s basically and contemporary R&B is a major factor in making that a reality. Especially from a vocal-centric asthestic. People focus on the beats but in Contemporary R&B, it's all about the vocal stylings and the beats/rhythms are framed around that. That's what a vocal-centric asthestic is. The vocal performance is the most important aspect of the song.

Anyways, so let's take BBD, for example. They're the New Jack Swing "grown-up"version of New Edition(I mean, they are literally 3/5ths of ND) and guess who's ND's influence was. Contemporary R&B is virtually a 40 year old sub-genre and within that, there have been several movements within it that took place afterwards, from one era or wave to what we have now. As far as I am concerned, MJ, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Marvin Gaye and Luther are the 5 male vocal blueprints for Contemporary R&B male artist and if you want to add another, Teddy Pendagrass. However, there has always been progression and modernization from that and the merging of the concepts of R&B vocal performance and Hip Hop vocal performance is a major part of that.

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Reply #37 posted 04/24/17 2:06pm

Curtwill1975

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I'm still not getting how Michael Jackson is nit making everyone's list when everyone in R^B since the 80s names him as an influence.

I'm pretty much going by what I hear and see. On average, the current popular R&B act has a rap break, not a guitar or sax solo. That to me is more a BBD influence than a Michael Jackson one. The image of the popular male singers is not really an androgynous look either. The subject matter of current R&B hits is less Michael Jackson and more hip hop to me too. If you look at the current main R&B singles chart in Billboard, most of it is rap.

.

1 Bruno Mars - That's What I Like
2 Kendrick Lamar - Humble.
3 KYLE Featuring Lil Yachty - iSpy
4 Future - Mask Off
5 Lil Uzi Vert - XO TOUR Llif3
6 Kodak Black - Tunnel Vision
7 The Weeknd Featuring Daft Punk - I Feel It Coming
8 Migos Featuring Lil Uzi Vert - Bad And Boujee
9 Post Malone Featuring Quavo - Congratulations
10 Khalid - Location

Even if you look at the top 10 of this week's adult R&B singles chart, the singer that might have a more direct Mike influence is Bruno Mars. I think Charlie Wilson is more Stevie Wonder than Mike.

1 Charlie Wilson Featuring T.I. - I'm Blessed
2 Bruno Mars - 24K Magic
3 Childish Gambino - Redbone
4 Mary J. Blige - U + Me (Love Lesson)
5 Leela James - Don't Want You Back
6 Yuna - Best Love
7 La'Porsha Renae - Good Woman
8 After 7 - Runnin' Out
9 Johnny Gill Featuring Jaheim - 5,000 Miles
10 Kevin Ross - Long Song Away

.

I've heard some performers say they were influnced by Muhammad Ali & Bruce Lee. That may be so. But are they a direct influence on their music and/or image? Probably not. They might say Mike is an influence on their career in the same way, but I don't hear it in the actual music of some of the current acts. It's probably more a work ethic influence, than a musical one.


BTW, MJJ's Smooth Criminal vocal stylings is a primative expression of the merging of R&B and Hip-Hop Vocal performance concepts.

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Reply #38 posted 04/24/17 3:41pm

MickyDolenz

avatar

Curtwill1975 said:

BTW, MJJ's Smooth Criminal vocal stylings is a primative expression of the merging of R&B and Hip-Hop Vocal performance concepts.

Force MDs were doing R&B & hip hop in the early 1980s. Teena Marie did an actual rap on Square Biz and Stevie Wonder sang on The Crown by Gary Byrd and Stevie also did a little rap on Do I Do. I'd consider Double Dutch Bus rapping also. Those were a few years before Smooth Criminal. Although not really a R&B group, Blondie's Rapture was played on R&B radio stations. There were also songs by Fatback Band, Stacy Lattisaw, Millie Jackson, Cameo, Chaka Khan with Melle Mel, Secret Weapon, Bohannon, Lakeside, Rene & Angela, and other R&B acts that had raps in them before Smooth Criminal, which is not really a rap to me. Some rappers did some singing too like Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, UTFO, The Sequence, and Kurtis Blow. Smooth Criminal doesn't seem like it has an influence from rap nor influenced hip hop/R&B in a way like Friends by Jody Watley & Rakim. I've seen some people give Mariah Carey & ODB credit, but Fantasy came out around 1995, so that seems pretty late. Bone Thugs N Harmony was around before Fantasy came out. Convoy by CC McCall sounds more like rapping to me than Smooth Criminal. There's a Jackson 5 song called The Day Basketball Was Saved that sounds like a rap though.


For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #39 posted 04/24/17 4:49pm

Curtwill1975

MickyDolenz said:

Curtwill1975 said:

BTW, MJJ's Smooth Criminal vocal stylings is a primative expression of the merging of R&B and Hip-Hop Vocal performance concepts.

Force MDs were doing R&B & hip hop in the early 1980s. Teena Marie did an actual rap on Square Biz and Stevie Wonder sang on The Crown by Gary Byrd and Stevie also did a little rap on Do I Do. I'd consider Double Dutch Bus rapping also. Those were a few years before Smooth Criminal. Although not really a R&B group, Blondie's Rapture was played on R&B radio stations. There were also songs by Fatback Band, Stacy Lattisaw, Millie Jackson, Cameo, Chaka Khan with Melle Mel, Secret Weapon, Bohannon, Lakeside, Rene & Angela, and other R&B acts that had raps in them before Smooth Criminal, which is not really a rap to me. Some rappers did some singing too like Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, UTFO, The Sequence, and Kurtis Blow. Smooth Criminal doesn't seem like it has an influence from rap nor influenced hip hop/R&B in a way like Friends by Jody Watley & Rakim. I've seen some people give Mariah Carey & ODB credit, but Fantasy came out around 1995, so that seems pretty late. Bone Thugs N Harmony was around before Fantasy came out. Convoy by CC McCall sounds more like rapping to me than Smooth Criminal. There's a Jackson 5 song called The Day Basketball Was Saved that sounds like a rap though.


I'm talking about the blending or merging of R&B vocal performance concepts with rapping performance concepts. Not separately. Bone Thugs & Harmony is actually a good example of the merging of both concepts together as one vocal harmonious performance that it blurs the line of what singing and rapping is supposed to sound like vocally.

Smooth Criminal(and Jam) actually have primative elements of it though not as evolved or as advanced as what BT&H did(and Mariah on Breakdown) did it with them on Breakdown as well as the things that Destiny's Child around that same period having traditional R&B vocal elements harmoniously.

[Edited 4/24/17 16:50pm]

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Reply #40 posted 04/24/17 6:31pm

mltijchr

avatar

in my opinion, R&B music did peak in the late 70s. the level of creativity, musicianship & vocal talent & prowess of the best of that era - & since that era - is still unrivaled.

.

having expressed that, for me, this (so-called "contemporary") R&B HOF would have to start earlier than the late 70s. for me, this RBHOF would start with these 5

MASTERS

of rhythm & blues :

.

JAMES BROWN

SLY & THE FAMILY STONE

ARETHA FRANKLIN

ISLEY BROTHERS

STEVIE WONDER

.

of course, many other groups & singers would be worthy to be inducted AFTER this "starting five" :

.

Al Green

Marvin Gaye

Gladys Knight/Pips

Parliament-Funkadelic

Earth Wind & Fire

Rufus/Chaka Khan

Prince

Cameo

Rick James

Kool/Gang

Teena Marie

The Time

Luther Vandross/Change

Slave

.

this last group was simply off the top of my head.. several others would be worthy of early inclusion to this R&B hall of fame.

.

if I were in charge of this HOF, there MIGHT be only 2 or 3 inductees who released their 1st music after 1996..

this is how much "today's r&b music" has DETERIORATED from what it had been.

I'll see you tonight..
in ALL MY DREAMS..
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Reply #41 posted 04/24/17 6:55pm

mltijchr

avatar

damn HOW DID I LEAVE OFF THE JACKSONS &/OR MICHAEL.

.

again.. I did (rush) the names off the top of my head..

.

Sade too

(& she is in my all-time top 5)

I'll see you tonight..
in ALL MY DREAMS..
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Reply #42 posted 04/24/17 7:14pm

mltijchr

avatar

206Michelle said:

- Stevie Wonder: He has an outstanding voice. He's a great songwriter. He plays multiple instruments even though he's blind. He made the innovative, yet classic albums Talking Book, Innervisions, and Songs in the Key of Life. He made the songs "Superstition," "Living for the City," "Isn't She Lovely," "Ribbon in the Sky," "Do I Do," and "I Just Called to Say I Love You." He's won 25 Grammy awards. I rest my case.

.

- Prince: He was one of the most elite guitar players to ever live, and belongs with other legendary guitarists like Jimi Hendrix, Carlos Santana, and Eric Clapton. He had an outstanding voice with incredible range. He was a great songwriter. He played 27+ instruments. He was one of the 3 most popular musicians of the 1980s. His music is so varied that he transcends genre. He made the albums Purple Rain, Parade, and Sign o' The Times. His Super Bowl Halftime performance is arguably the greatest Super Bowl halftime performance of all time. There are over 1,000 songs in his catalogue of released material. He won 8 Grammy awards.

.

- Whitney Houston: She had arguably the greatest singing voice of any woman in the history of popular/recorded music. She could songs of any tempo and a variety of styles (Gospel, rock, R&B, and pop). Her songs were the centerpeice of The Bodyguard soundtrack, the best-selling soundtrack of all time. She was bigger than life in the early 1990s due to The Bodyguard movie and soundtrack. Her performance of the "Star Spangled Banner" at the 1991 Super Bowl remains the gold-standard performance. She earned 7 Grammy awards.

.

- Marvin Gaye: He had an amazing voice. He was an amazing songwriter, writing about a variety of topics including love, sex, war, and environmental issues. He made the classic songs "Let's Get It On," "Got to Give It Up," "What's Going On," "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," "Mercy Mercy Me," and "Sexual Healing." He won 8 Grammy awards.

.

- Earth Wind & Fire: This is a pioneering band. The contrasting vocals of Maurice White and Philip Bailey make the group's vocal sound unique. They incorporated the use of horns masterfully in their recordings. This group is an incredible live act. This group has created the well-known songs "September," "After the Love Has Gone," "Shining Star," and That's The Way of The World." They have won 9 Grammy awards.

.

- Luther Vandross: He has one of the greatest voices of any male singer in the history of popular/recorded music. He sang the classic songs "Always and Forever" and "Here and Now." He won 8 Grammy awards.

.

- Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff: They wrote or produced the following classic songs: "For the Love of Money" by The O'Jays, "Me and Mrs. Jones" by Billy Paul, "If You Don't Know Me by Now" by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes, and "Love Train" by The O'Jays, . They were the creators of Philadelphia Soul.

.

- Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds: He has written and produced over 26 number-one R&B hits throughout his career, and has won 11 Grammy awards. He also is an accomplished singer, with hits such as "Whip Appeal" and "When Can I See You Again."

.

- Sade: This band created a pioneering mix of Jazz, Latin, R&B, Rock, and Pop. They created the classic songs "Smooth Operator," "Paradise," and "No Ordinary Love." This band has won 4 Grammy awards.

.

- Usher: He has an excellent voice, including very good range. He was the most popular R&B artist of the 2000s. He also had enormous success as a pop artist. His hits include "U Make Me Wanna," "U Remind Me," "Confessions," and "U Don't Have to Call." He has won 8 Grammy awards.

[Edited 4/16/17 17:52pm]

.

great list & explanations. Whitney & Usher would have a place in such a HOF, through if I had a vote I wouldn't necessarily have voted for Usher. yes he can sing, but I don't know his music enough to say much more than he is/was just another in the long line of Michael Jackson wannabees from the mid-/late-90s going forward (apologies if my opinion offends any Usher fans..)

.

Whitney Houston - just from her powerful dynamic unique alone - belongs in any sort of HOF relative to music. that's how great her voice is. I have never claimed to be a fan of her music

(the ONE song she made that I actually even like is "I'm your baby tonight)

because to me - with a voice like that she could have & SHOULD HAVE done more "soulful" & more TRUE "r&b-oriented" music..

whether it was Whitney's decision or her mother's decision or Clive's decision - Whitney had the pipes (VOCAL pipes, I meant!) to be RIGHT THERE NEXT TO ARETHA.

I mean : ARETHA 1A Whitney 1B

but no - songs like "I wanna dance with somebody" are so sweet I get CAVITIES lissinin' to pop music like that. anyone who digs that kind of music - good on them.

I just never acquired a taste for that type of "blatant crossover pop"..

I'll see you tonight..
in ALL MY DREAMS..
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Reply #43 posted 04/24/17 8:31pm

mjscarousal

Good arguments for Sade and New Edition. Sade was definitly a big influence on Neo Soul.

I guess I was confused at first by what OP was asking because I thought he was asking what are more contemporary sounding artists such as 90s or 00's artists that should be inducted in a "contemporary" hall but if we are discussing artists that have impacted and influence R&B ( as a whole) than I would choose

Michael Jackson

Prince

James Brown

Parliament/Funkadelic

Stevie Wonder

Marvin Gaye

Janet Jackson

Babyface

Gamble and Huff

Teddy Riley

Some of these artists others have been mentioned have not transformed R&B and do not deserve to be mentioned.

[Edited 4/24/17 20:32pm]

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Reply #44 posted 04/25/17 6:19am

alphastreet

Your mother.
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Reply #45 posted 04/25/17 12:26pm

MickyDolenz

avatar

alphastreet said:

Your mother.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #46 posted 04/25/17 2:12pm

namepeace

mltijchr said:

in my opinion, R&B music did peak in the late 70s. the level of creativity, musicianship & vocal talent & prowess of the best of that era - & since that era - is still unrivaled.

.

having expressed that, for me, this (so-called "contemporary") R&B HOF would have to start earlier than the late 70s. for me, this RBHOF would start with these 5

MASTERS

of rhythm & blues :

.

ISLEY BROTHERS

STEVIE WONDER

.

of course, many other groups & singers would be worthy to be inducted AFTER this "starting five" :

.

Earth Wind & Fire

Rufus/Chaka Khan

Prince

Cameo

Rick James

Kool/Gang

Teena Marie

The Time

Luther Vandross

.

this last group was simply off the top of my head.. several others would be worthy of early inclusion to this R&B hall of fame.

.

if I were in charge of this HOF, there MIGHT be only 2 or 3 inductees who released their 1st music after 1996..

this is how much "today's r&b music" has DETERIORATED from what it had been.


I don't disagree with you about the creative peak of R&B being the late 70's, due to the depth and breadth of R&B in that time. I also don't disagree with you that R&B can't be separated from the classic era of the 60's or the artists who led and/or paved the way for a golden age in the 70's.

But I still say we're dealing with the OP's Contemporary R&B Hall of Fame (ca. 1977-present), which is frankly a much more challenging topic. That's because it asks us which artists truly stepped out of the shadows of the (arguable) Golden Era of R&B from the 60's to mid-70's to make their own impact on the genre. Most of your list would still qualify.

But I disagree with you about your 1996 cutoff. Commercially, R&B morphed into "rap and beats" over the last 20 (or 25) years. But there have been a lot of artists out there making quality music. Consider who would be disqualified -- the likes of Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Bilal, Janelle Monae, The Foreign Exchange, Van Hunt, and other acts who've made meaningful, impactful, creative R&B music.




Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #47 posted 04/25/17 4:03pm

mjscarousal

Besides D Angelo, Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill (who helped to popularize and innovate Neo Soul) what other artists after 1996 made a groundbreaking impact on R&B? There have not been any artists after 1996 that have made a innovative impact on R&B. The only 3 that deserve to be mention in terms of the creation of Neo Soul is D, Erkyah and Lauryn Hill

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Reply #48 posted 04/25/17 4:24pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

avatar

mjscarousal said:

Besides D Angelo, Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill (who helped to popularize and innovate Neo Soul) what other artists after 1996 made a groundbreaking impact on R&B? There have not been any artists after 1996 that have made a innovative impact on R&B. The only 3 that deserve to be mention in terms of the creation of Neo Soul is D, Erkyah and Lauryn Hill


Maxwell, J Dilla, possibly Jill Scott
Creation of Neo Soul can go to Toni Tony Tone also.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #49 posted 04/25/17 4:24pm

Curtwill1975

namepeace said:

mltijchr said:

in my opinion, R&B music did peak in the late 70s. the level of creativity, musicianship & vocal talent & prowess of the best of that era - & since that era - is still unrivaled.

.

having expressed that, for me, this (so-called "contemporary") R&B HOF would have to start earlier than the late 70s. for me, this RBHOF would start with these 5

MASTERS

of rhythm & blues :

.

ISLEY BROTHERS

STEVIE WONDER

.

of course, many other groups & singers would be worthy to be inducted AFTER this "starting five" :

.

Earth Wind & Fire

Rufus/Chaka Khan

Prince

Cameo

Rick James

Kool/Gang

Teena Marie

The Time

Luther Vandross

.

this last group was simply off the top of my head.. several others would be worthy of early inclusion to this R&B hall of fame.

.

if I were in charge of this HOF, there MIGHT be only 2 or 3 inductees who released their 1st music after 1996..

this is how much "today's r&b music" has DETERIORATED from what it had been.


I don't disagree with you about the creative peak of R&B being the late 70's, due to the depth and breadth of R&B in that time. I also don't disagree with you that R&B can't be separated from the classic era of the 60's or the artists who led and/or paved the way for a golden age in the 70's.

But I still say we're dealing with the OP's Contemporary R&B Hall of Fame (ca. 1977-present), which is frankly a much more challenging topic. That's because it asks us which artists truly stepped out of the shadows of the (arguable) Golden Era of R&B from the 60's to mid-70's to make their own impact on the genre. Most of your list would still qualify.

But I disagree with you about your 1996 cutoff. Commercially, R&B morphed into "rap and beats" over the last 20 (or 25) years. But there have been a lot of artists out there making quality music. Consider who would be disqualified -- the likes of Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Bilal, Janelle Monae, The Foreign Exchange, Van Hunt, and other acts who've made meaningful, impactful, creative R&B music.




Well since I made the thread, let me say that it would take a while for me to add 1990 acts onto my hypothetic ballots, basically another 10 years(since this is a hypothetical thread) because there were so many pioneering acts before that and that's before you get to the "Class of the Mid 90s", which emcompasses 1996.

I agree that there have been iconic acts post that time period, even post debuting in the 2000s but their legacy hasn't been as defined in the way that those acts have made an impact before them on Contemporary R&B. So that don't mean that acts that began in the 90s wouldn't get in eventually but I would have them on my ballot as my 5-10 nominees.

[Edited 4/25/17 16:34pm]

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Reply #50 posted 04/25/17 4:30pm

Curtwill1975

I actually go through conflicting thoughts about Lauryn Hill because knowing how important she is into shaping Urban music but is she Contemporary R&B, per'se? I don't know. If I put her in, then what about her group the Fugees. I know how important Miseducation of LH is but the Score is arguably just as important.

Then again, she's important to the progression of the merging of Hip Hop and R&B sonically and that has to be honored but that's actually a good debate in my eyes. But btw, that would be a long way off because there are more deserving candidates in my eyes.

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Reply #51 posted 04/25/17 4:34pm

Curtwill1975

What do y'all think of Alicia Keys's legacy as a part of this discussion? How important and impactful is it? She actually "officially" debut in the 2000s so she's actually post 1996. Do anyone think she's had an impact on the shaping on how Contemporary R&B? If so, how much?

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Reply #52 posted 04/25/17 4:38pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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Curtwill1975 said:

What do y'all think of Alicia Keys's legacy as a part of this discussion? How important and impactful is it? She actually "officially" debut in the 2000s so she's actually post 1996. Do anyone think she's had an impact on the shaping on how Contemporary R&B? If so, how much?


I hear more Mary J in females than Keys. And maybe because shes a musician.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
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Reply #53 posted 04/25/17 4:50pm

MickyDolenz

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Curtwill1975 said:

What do y'all think of Alicia Keys's legacy as a part of this discussion? How important and impactful is it? She actually "officially" debut in the 2000s so she's actually post 1996. Do anyone think she's had an impact on the shaping on how Contemporary R&B? If so, how much?

Probably not as much as Rihanna, since she's more popular and has more hits than Alicia. Alicia sounds more like adult contemporary style vocals, but with some hip hop elements in the music, like another version of Mariah Carey. Probably why Clive Davis signed her. Clive tends to want the Top 40 pop audience more than just the R&B one. Alicia's like the female John Legend, and John has mainstream AC popularity.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #54 posted 04/25/17 6:43pm

mjscarousal

LittleBLUECorvette said:

mjscarousal said:

Besides D Angelo, Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill (who helped to popularize and innovate Neo Soul) what other artists after 1996 made a groundbreaking impact on R&B? There have not been any artists after 1996 that have made a innovative impact on R&B. The only 3 that deserve to be mention in terms of the creation of Neo Soul is D, Erkyah and Lauryn Hill

Maxwell, J Dilla, possibly Jill Scott Creation of Neo Soul can go to Toni Tony Tone also.

Your right about Maxwell, Urban Suite is a defining album for Neo Soul. While I like Jill Scott By 2000, I dont think her debut is as defining as the other debuts for Neo Soul. I agree about Toni Tony Tone because I think it can be argued they helped influenced the creation of Neo Soul. There aren't too many artists after 95' that made a groundbreaking impact on R&B.

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Reply #55 posted 04/25/17 7:26pm

namepeace

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Curtwill1975 said:

What do y'all think of Alicia Keys's legacy as a part of this discussion? How important and impactful is it? She actually "officially" debut in the 2000s so she's actually post 1996. Do anyone think she's had an impact on the shaping on how Contemporary R&B? If so, how much?

I hear more Mary J in females than Keys. And maybe because shes a musician.


The respect for her will grow with time and perspective. Great point; if we cut it off after 1996, she'd be excluded as well.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #56 posted 04/25/17 7:28pm

namepeace

Curtwill1975 said:

Well since I made the thread, let me say that it would take a while for me to add 1990 acts onto my hypothetic ballots, basically another 10 years(since this is a hypothetical thread) because there were so many pioneering acts before that and that's before you get to the "Class of the Mid 90s", which emcompasses 1996.

I agree that there have been iconic acts post that time period, even post debuting in the 2000s but their legacy hasn't been as defined in the way that those acts have made an impact before them on Contemporary R&B. So that don't mean that acts that began in the 90s wouldn't get in eventually but I would have them on my ballot as my 5-10 nominees.

[Edited 4/25/17 16:34pm]


That's fair, but a lot of artists who aren't icons today will be considered icons tomorrow.

For the most part, icons are formed over time. Sometimes decades. So it's understandable that 90's acts would have to wait a while to get in. I didn't list any myself.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #57 posted 04/25/17 8:26pm

mjscarousal

namepeace said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Well since I made the thread, let me say that it would take a while for me to add 1990 acts onto my hypothetic ballots, basically another 10 years(since this is a hypothetical thread) because there were so many pioneering acts before that and that's before you get to the "Class of the Mid 90s", which emcompasses 1996.

I agree that there have been iconic acts post that time period, even post debuting in the 2000s but their legacy hasn't been as defined in the way that those acts have made an impact before them on Contemporary R&B. So that don't mean that acts that began in the 90s wouldn't get in eventually but I would have them on my ballot as my 5-10 nominees.

[Edited 4/25/17 16:34pm]


That's fair, but a lot of artists who aren't icons today will be considered icons tomorrow.

For the most part, icons are formed over time. Sometimes decades. So it's understandable that 90's acts would have to wait a while to get in. I didn't list any myself.

Respectfully disagree.

An artist has to actually make an iconic album, song, performance or moment in pop culture in order to be revered as one. In other words, they have to actually do something iconic to be viewed as an Icon. This is something that does not occur "over time". An artist can become an Icon instantly. IMO, its theopposite, the more an artist moves pass their commerical peak, the lower their chances are in making a iconic moment that really makes an impact on people.

When MJ moonwalked across that stage on Motown 25, he became an ICON and then of course he went on to do other Iconic things. He didn't become viewed as one 10 years after he did that.

At that very moment he became one because it was groundbreaking and defining for music and entertainment.

When Prince dropped Purple Rain he became an Icon

When Janet made RN, she became an Icon.

They didn't just become viewed as Icons, "overtime"

There are some artists that will never be seen as Icons and that is simply because some will never do anything Iconic or momentum that reasonates with the general public.

[Edited 4/25/17 20:27pm]

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Reply #58 posted 04/25/17 9:42pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

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Nobody. Because CONTEMPORARY denotes something CURRENT.

A hall of fame is created for old acts.

And additionally. ... if "DESTINY'S CHILD" is being considered for the Rock n Roll hall of fame then all R&B belongs.


If we're meeting in the middle. ..

Non HOF: NEW EDITION, MINT CONDITION, well...nah. what else is there in the mid 90's.... wasn't groundbreaking.... BOYZ II MEN, BABYFACE, all that stuff. ... R KELLY. ...

but they're somewhat current (or I'm old)..

It's difficult to gauge... cause consider this:

I'd easily equate SHANICE'S "I LOVE YOUR SMILE" with some oldies like MY GUY or the like. But the reality is she's a one hit wonder. I'd say the same for TAMIA as well, but I love the song she sang "like it were my own child"

Levert would be in there somewhere
[Edited 4/25/17 21:50pm]
♫"Trollin, Trolling! We could have fun just trollin'!"♫
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Reply #59 posted 04/25/17 10:11pm

mjscarousal

2045RadicalMattZ said:

Nobody. Because CONTEMPORARY denotes something CURRENT. A hall of fame is created for old acts. And additionally. ... if "DESTINY'S CHILD" is being considered for the Rock n Roll hall of fame then all R&B belongs. If we're meeting in the middle. .. Non HOF: NEW EDITION, MINT CONDITION, well...nah. what else is there in the mid 90's.... wasn't groundbreaking.... BOYZ II MEN, BABYFACE, all that stuff. ... R KELLY. ... but they're somewhat current (or I'm old).. It's difficult to gauge... cause consider this: I'd easily equate SHANICE'S "I LOVE YOUR SMILE" with some oldies like MY GUY or the like. But the reality is she's a one hit wonder. I'd say the same for TAMIA as well, but I love the song she sang "like it were my own child" Levert would be in there somewhere [Edited 4/25/17 21:50pm]

I thought it was just me. lol I agree with the bolded. nod

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > If you invented a Contemporary R&B Hall of Fame, who would you induct first?