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Thread started 02/06/17 4:11pm

Gunsnhalen

Proof Album Sales Don't Mean Shit.

Kid Rocks Devil Without A Cause sold 11 million which is more than any Beyonce, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, white stripes, rolling stone, Nirvana, Stevie Wonder album. Which is proof albums sales don't matter and have never mattered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ut_a_Cause

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #1 posted 02/06/17 4:39pm

TwiliteKid

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Gunsnhalen said:

Kid Rocks Devil Without A Cause sold 11 million which is more than any Beyonce, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, white stripes, rolling stone, Nirvana, Stevie Wonder album. Which is proof albums sales don't matter and have never mattered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ut_a_Cause



It's proof that they don't mean much relative to quality - but sales sure as hell matter to the industry: labels, managers, agents and artists.
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Reply #2 posted 02/06/17 4:41pm

Gunsnhalen

TwiliteKid said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Kid Rocks Devil Without A Cause sold 11 million which is more than any Beyonce, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, white stripes, rolling stone, Nirvana, Stevie Wonder album. Which is proof albums sales don't matter and have never mattered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ut_a_Cause

It's proof that they don't mean much relative to quality - but sales sure as hell matter to the industry: labels, managers, agents and artists.

And that's ALLL it should matter too imo. Because all these stans (Beyonce, Adele, michael jackson) using album sales as a reason for their artist is the best has a weak argument.

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #3 posted 02/06/17 4:49pm

TwiliteKid

avatar

Gunsnhalen said:



TwiliteKid said:


Gunsnhalen said:

Kid Rocks Devil Without A Cause sold 11 million which is more than any Beyonce, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, white stripes, rolling stone, Nirvana, Stevie Wonder album. Which is proof albums sales don't matter and have never mattered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ut_a_Cause



It's proof that they don't mean much relative to quality - but sales sure as hell matter to the industry: labels, managers, agents and artists.

And that's ALLL it should matter too imo. Because all these stans (Beyonce, Adele, michael jackson) using album sales as a reason for their artist is the best has a weak argument.



Well then, agreed!
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Reply #4 posted 02/06/17 7:03pm

Dasein

Wait: but Thriller is good, and it's a big ass seller. Purple Rain is good too (and I prefer it
moreso than Thriller, which is overrated, but I digress) and that's a big ass seller as well.

So, what you really could be saying is:

"High album sales from recording artists I don't like isn't enough to convince me to start liking
them."

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Reply #5 posted 02/06/17 7:06pm

UncleJam

avatar

Please Hammer Dont Hurt 'Em sold millions....nothing more needs to be said.

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #6 posted 02/06/17 7:15pm

Dasein

^

Again, it didn't sell more than Thriller. So, your point is moot. You guys appear to be
simply choosing top selling albums from recording artists you don't particularly care for and
offering that as "proof" that album sales don't mean much to you.

But, I'm willing to wager that if Purple Rain was to come within 500k units of Thriller, this message
board would mount a drive to get people to buy more copies of it. Why? Because albums sales
for artists we care about means a ton of shit to us!


[Edited 2/6/17 19:16pm]

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Reply #7 posted 02/06/17 7:31pm

UncleJam

avatar

How bout this...album sales dont make an album good!? biggrin

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #8 posted 02/06/17 7:36pm

Dasein

UncleJam said:

How bout this...album sales dont make an album good!? biggrin


Yep!

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Reply #9 posted 02/06/17 10:08pm

Gunsnhalen

UncleJam said:

How bout this...album sales dont make an album good!? biggrin

THIS X10000

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #10 posted 02/06/17 10:09pm

Gunsnhalen

Alsi Thriller is overrated fluffy pop with lots of filler razz

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #11 posted 02/06/17 10:46pm

mjscarousal

Albums DO mean shit, its shows the strength of an artist's reach and popularity. biggrin No it does not necessarily reflect quality and creativity but to say it has no weight or measure is absurd. ALSO, just because an album sales a lot doesn't mean its not good. I notice folks citing Thriller and calling it overrated BUT various songs off of Thriler plays on the radio all the time. I dont see how you can call a classic album overrated and Prince Purple Rain sold over 15 million copies are yall going to call that album overrated too? Every album that sells well is not necessarily overrated.

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Reply #12 posted 02/06/17 10:48pm

mjscarousal

Gunsnhalen said:

Alsi Thriller is overrated fluffy pop with lots of filler razz

I bet you, you know all the words on the album though razz

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Reply #13 posted 02/06/17 10:48pm

mjscarousal

Dasein said:

^

Again, it didn't sell more than Thriller. So, your point is moot. You guys appear to be
simply choosing top selling albums from recording artists you don't particularly care for and
offering that as "proof" that album sales don't mean much to you.

But, I'm willing to wager that if Purple Rain was to come within 500k units of Thriller, this message
board would mount a drive to get people to buy more copies of it. Why? Because albums sales
for artists we care about means a ton of shit to us!


[Edited 2/6/17 19:16pm]

This.

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Reply #14 posted 02/07/17 1:24am

SoulAlive

Kid Rock? barf can't stand that fool.

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Reply #15 posted 02/07/17 7:21am

Dasein

Gunsnhalen said:

Alsi Thriller is overrated fluffy pop with lots of filler razz



But the emperor is not wearing any clothes!


(shhhhhhhh . . . you're right, but don't tell anybody)

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Reply #16 posted 02/07/17 7:36am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

Dasein said:



Gunsnhalen said:


Alsi Thriller is overrated fluffy pop with lots of filler razz





But the emperor is not wearing any clothes!


(shhhhh . . . you're right, but don't tell anybody)

Meh... disagreed but that's your opinion to have.
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Reply #17 posted 02/07/17 9:36am

RodeoSchro

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No kidding! Look at how many albums Nirvana sold, and those guys destroyed an entire genre.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #18 posted 02/07/17 9:43am

Dasein

MotownSubdivision said:

Dasein said:



But the emperor is not wearing any clothes!


(shhhhhhhh . . . you're right, but don't tell anybody)

Meh... disagreed but that's your opinion to have.


"The Girl Is Mine"

"Baby Be Mine"
"P. Y. T."

All catchy tunes, but you gotta admit they are kinda cheezy and/or fluffy; the album only has
nine songs so, a third of it is kinda cheezy and/or fluffy. That's a pretty big portion for what is
the best selling album of all time!

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Reply #19 posted 02/07/17 10:02am

lastdecember

avatar

mjscarousal said:

Albums DO mean shit, its shows the strength of an artist's reach and popularity. biggrin No it does not necessarily reflect quality and creativity but to say it has no weight or measure is absurd. ALSO, just because an album sales a lot doesn't mean its not good. I notice folks citing Thriller and calling it overrated BUT various songs off of Thriler plays on the radio all the time. I dont see how you can call a classic album overrated and Prince Purple Rain sold over 15 million copies are yall going to call that album overrated too? Every album that sells well is not necessarily overrated.

Comparing sales in the 80's to the soundscan era, 90's and early 2000's is useless and also not a fair comparison at all. Take THRILLER or a PURPLE RAIN, or tons of other big selling albums of the 80's, FAITH BORNIN THE USA etc....these records also had tons of hits, top 10's etc...at least 5-7 singles on each out in stores selling. The 90's was not that, once soundscan came in singles were pulled so people either bought the album or could suck it to quote label people. And lets not even get into today comparing fucking streaming and all that BS. Comparing DRAKE's popularity to a MJ or a Madonna etc...are you KIDDING ME. There are tons of people who don't even know a Drake song or him. Who did not know Bruce or MJ or MADONNA or Prince when those records were out??? Case closed on this matter.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #20 posted 02/07/17 11:13am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

What about Purple Rain?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #21 posted 02/07/17 12:04pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

Dasein said:



MotownSubdivision said:


Dasein said:




But the emperor is not wearing any clothes!


(shhhhh . . . you're right, but don't tell anybody)



Meh... disagreed but that's your opinion to have.


"The Girl Is Mine"


"Baby Be Mine"
"P. Y. T."

All catchy tunes, but you gotta admit they are kinda cheezy and/or fluffy; the album only has
nine songs so, a third of it is kinda cheezy and/or fluffy. That's a pretty big portion for what is
the best selling album of all time!

I never got the hate for "Baby Be Mine"; it's an underrated cut. "P.Y.T" is a classic and one of MJ's best, most recognizable songs; it's not on the level of "Billie Jean" or "Beat It" but filler? That's a gross understatement.

The only track I agree is filler is "The Girl is Mine".
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Reply #22 posted 02/07/17 12:08pm

namepeace

Dasein said:


So, what you really could be saying is: "High album sales from recording artists I don't like isn't enough to convince me to start liking them."


That has been a recurring theme in the Music: Non-Prince forum since I've been here.

And it's fair -- album sales don't validate artists creatively. As MattyJam mentioned, Please Hammer Don't Hurt'Em sold more units than Prince's albums from '85-'92 combined.

[Edited 2/7/17 12:13pm]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #23 posted 02/07/17 12:17pm

Dasein

mjscarousal said:

Albums DO mean shit, its shows the strength of an artist's reach and popularity. biggrin No it does not necessarily reflect quality and creativity but to say it has no weight or measure is absurd. ALSO, just because an album sales a lot doesn't mean its not good. I notice folks citing Thriller and calling it overrated BUT various songs off of Thriler plays on the radio all the time. I dont see how you can call a classic album overrated and Prince Purple Rain sold over 15 million copies are yall going to call that album overrated too? Every album that sells well is not necessarily overrated.


Album sales do not necessarily reflect accurately the strength of an artist's reach and popularity,
as it could also indicate the strength of a record company's pockets and influence!

I'm one of the people who thinks Thriller is quite possibly overrated as far as being a collection of
songs. I stop here because as a cultural movement, Thriller is more than the sum of its parts. We'll
never see anything like what happened with Michael Jackson from 1982 - 1984 ever again in my
lifetime. However, just because a few tunes off of that album are still played on the radio today
doesn't mean that it doesn't have some cheeze or fluff on it. So, Thriller is still a classic album
despite one third of it being schmaltzy and this is because of the impact it had on our culture as well.

Purple Rain, in my opinion, is a much stronger record because Prince was a more sophisticated
musician and songwriter than Michael Jackson was. Just like Thriller, it too has nine tunes on it yet
I struggle to identify one as being completely capable of "toss-off" categorization.

So, not all albums that sell well are overrated; and not all albums that sell well are proof that album
sales don't mean shit; it's all about context and depends upon the artist selling the record. I just
glanced at the top selling albums of all time and Shania Twain has put in some work! Who knew?!

eek

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Reply #24 posted 02/07/17 12:17pm

namepeace

Dasein said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Dasein said: Meh... disagreed but that's your opinion to have.


"The Girl Is Mine"

"Baby Be Mine"
"P. Y. T."

All catchy tunes, but you gotta admit they are kinda cheezy and/or fluffy; the album only has nine songs so, a third of it is kinda cheezy and/or fluffy. That's a pretty big portion for what is the best selling album of all time!


Off The Wall is a superior album, but Thriller was a video-driven phenomenon. Given that Thriller took a decided turn away from R&B to pop, it doesn't surprise me you got more pop-friendly songs.

But that bass line for "PYT" kinda kicks.

And "Baby Be Mine" is now my favorite song on the whole album.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #25 posted 02/07/17 12:24pm

Dasein

MotownSubdivision said:

Dasein said:


"The Girl Is Mine"

"Baby Be Mine"
"P. Y. T."

All catchy tunes, but you gotta admit they are kinda cheezy and/or fluffy; the album only has
nine songs so, a third of it is kinda cheezy and/or fluffy. That's a pretty big portion for what is
the best selling album of all time!

I never got the hate for "Baby Be Mine"; it's an underrated cut. "P.Y.T" is a classic and one of MJ's best, most recognizable songs; it's not on the level of "Billie Jean" or "Beat It" but filler? That's a gross understatement. The only track I agree is filler is "The Girl is Mine".


No, please don't equate "cheezy" or "fluffy" with "hate." I said all those tunes are catchy! This is
not about "hate." It's about recognizing what I find to be compositionally interesting and I find

those three songs as being too sweet for constant aural consumption.

"P.Y.T." is definitely a classic; I sang it for karaoke during Christmas one year and the house went
mad. But a song can be a classic and cheezy at the same time!

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Reply #26 posted 02/07/17 12:25pm

NaughtyKitty

avatar

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Albums DO mean shit, its shows the strength of an artist's reach and popularity. biggrin No it does not necessarily reflect quality and creativity but to say it has no weight or measure is absurd. ALSO, just because an album sales a lot doesn't mean its not good. I notice folks citing Thriller and calling it overrated BUT various songs off of Thriler plays on the radio all the time. I dont see how you can call a classic album overrated and Prince Purple Rain sold over 15 million copies are yall going to call that album overrated too? Every album that sells well is not necessarily overrated.


Album sales do not necessarily reflect accurately the strength of an artist's reach and popularity,
as it could also indicate the strength of a record company's pockets and influence!

I'm one of the people who thinks Thriller is quite possibly overrated as far as being a collection of
songs. I stop here because as a cultural movement, Thriller is more than the sum of its parts. We'll
never see anything like what happened with Michael Jackson from 1982 - 1984 ever again in my
lifetime. However, just because a few tunes off of that album are still played on the radio today
doesn't mean that it doesn't have some cheeze or fluff on it. So, Thriller is still a classic album
despite one third of it being schmaltzy and this is because of the impact it had on our culture as well.

Purple Rain, in my opinion, is a much stronger record because Prince was a more sophisticated
musician and songwriter than Michael Jackson was. Just like Thriller, it too has nine tunes on it yet
I struggle to identify one as being completely capable of "toss-off" categorization.

So, not all albums that sell well are overrated; and not all albums that sell well are proof that album
sales don't mean shit; it's all about context and depends upon the artist selling the record. I just
glanced at the top selling albums of all time and Shania Twain has put in some work! Who knew?!

eek

The bolded part of your post is very interesting! Could you expound on this please? smile

[Edited 2/7/17 12:25pm]

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Reply #27 posted 02/07/17 12:39pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

Dasein said:



MotownSubdivision said:


Dasein said:



"The Girl Is Mine"


"Baby Be Mine"
"P. Y. T."

All catchy tunes, but you gotta admit they are kinda cheezy and/or fluffy; the album only has
nine songs so, a third of it is kinda cheezy and/or fluffy. That's a pretty big portion for what is
the best selling album of all time!



I never got the hate for "Baby Be Mine"; it's an underrated cut. "P.Y.T" is a classic and one of MJ's best, most recognizable songs; it's not on the level of "Billie Jean" or "Beat It" but filler? That's a gross understatement. The only track I agree is filler is "The Girl is Mine".


No, please don't equate "cheezy" or "fluffy" with "hate." I said all those tunes are catchy! This is
not about "hate." It's about recognizing what I find to be compositionally interesting and I find


those three songs as being too sweet for constant aural consumption.

"P.Y.T." is definitely a classic; I sang it for karaoke during Christmas one year and the house went
mad. But a song can be a classic and cheezy at the same time!

I was speaking in general when I said "hate", I should have clarified more. To that end, to "hate on" isn't necessarily the same thing as it is to actually "hate".

I still disagree that "P.Y.T." and "Baby Be Mine" are cheesy as well as with your opinion that they are "too sweet for constant aural consumption" seeing as how I can and have listened to both songs countless times over, including many times consecutively and still didn't get enough of them.

Nevertheless that's still your opinion to have.
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Reply #28 posted 02/07/17 12:40pm

Dasein

NaughtyKitty said:

Dasein said:


Album sales do not necessarily reflect accurately the strength of an artist's reach and popularity,
as it could also indicate the strength of a record company's pockets and influence!

I'm one of the people who thinks Thriller is quite possibly overrated as far as being a collection of
songs. I stop here because as a cultural movement, Thriller is more than the sum of its parts. We'll
never see anything like what happened with Michael Jackson from 1982 - 1984 ever again in my
lifetime. However, just because a few tunes off of that album are still played on the radio today
doesn't mean that it doesn't have some cheeze or fluff on it. So, Thriller is still a classic album
despite one third of it being schmaltzy and this is because of the impact it had on our culture as well.

Purple Rain, in my opinion, is a much stronger record because Prince was a more sophisticated
musician and songwriter than Michael Jackson was. Just like Thriller, it too has nine tunes on it yet
I struggle to identify one as being completely capable of "toss-off" categorization.

So, not all albums that sell well are overrated; and not all albums that sell well are proof that album
sales don't mean shit; it's all about context and depends upon the artist selling the record. I just
glanced at the top selling albums of all time and Shania Twain has put in some work! Who knew?!

eek

The bolded part of your post is very interesting! Could you expound on this please? smile

[Edited 2/7/17 12:25pm]


Some record companies simply have more money and influence than others do. So, the more
money and influence you have, the more you're able to successfully market and promote an
album to buy popularity. This could explain the existence of one hit wonders and top selling
albums like Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em.

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Reply #29 posted 02/07/17 12:46pm

Dasein

MotownSubdivision said:

Dasein said:


No, please don't equate "cheezy" or "fluffy" with "hate." I said all those tunes are catchy! This is
not about "hate." It's about recognizing what I find to be compositionally interesting and I find

those three songs as being too sweet for constant aural consumption.

"P.Y.T." is definitely a classic; I sang it for karaoke during Christmas one year and the house went
mad. But a song can be a classic and cheezy at the same time!

I was speaking in general when I said "hate", I should have clarified more. To that end, to "hate on" isn't necessarily the same thing as it is to actually "hate". I still disagree that "P.Y.T." and "Baby Be Mine" are cheesy as well as with your opinion that they are "too sweet for constant aural consumption" seeing as how I can and have listened to both songs countless times over, including many times consecutively and still didn't get enough of them. Nevertheless that's still your opinion to have.


Yeah, I don't like that word "hate" when used in this forum because people get bent out of shape
if you don't like something they do. Another word that drives me crazy is "stan"; like, the word
"fan(atic)" means I have to be fucking insane and stalking someone if I simply champion or like
their music.

Anyhoo . . .

Yeah, it just may be the case that your tolerance for aural candy is higher than mine. And I feel
the need to say it for the third time: all of those tunes are catchy. I just don't think they are
pieces that are as compositionally sound as the other highlights off of Thriller. People hear the
words "cheezy" and/or "fluffy" and think "bad" but that's not precisely the case here.

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