Yes she has peaked. She peaked years ago, I would say her peak was 2003-2008 (and I personally think she peaked to early, the above afromentioned acts still had hit singles well into their early to mid 30's) but how does her peaking make her a legend? What has she done for music or entertainment that makes her legendary? She is just following the blue print of her predeccesers and not breaking any new ground and her catalog is forgettable.

thedoorkeeper said:

Maybe I am putting too much importance on hit singles when it comes to Beyonce. I think he status comes more from her persona, her albums & her touring. Her list of hit singles is fairly short.

Why shouldn't hits be important? Hits reflect popularity. If she is being labeled as a "legend" the same as her predecessors who have a bunch of hits shouldn't she be judged the same?

Beyonce is overrated without any substantial receipts and stats to back up her "status"

Beyonce is not even amongst the biggest selling artists of her generation and Bruno, Adele, Taylor, Rihanna and others have played stadiums as well. Again, what about her makes her a legend? Is it because she is a media darling? Is it because the industry showers her with awards? I don't think that makes an artist a legend. Marvin Gaye doesn't have a bunch of grammies and never played a stadium but he is far more legendary and influential to music than Beyonce will ever be.

[Edited 11/3/16 10:06am]

I don't necessarily believe artists peak like that. I believe it's the consumer that changes. (Of course an artist changes and grows, so I'm not addressing that sort of change.) New trends, and ideas, and musical sensibilities come to fruition in music, and often times once bigger stars get pushed to the side in favor of the trendy and the in-the-now artist. Just as a note: "Drunk In Love" was a #2 hit, and "Formation" was in the top 10. That's a hit. "Sorry" only hit #11, but went platinum, and "Formation" and "Hold Up" went gold. Of course, it's not "Single Ladies" territory.

I've long said this about Bey: She needs to chill. Meaning, I like the music. It's catchy, it's got hooks, some song soar, some are just good grooves. (Not even going to delve into her taking songwriting credits on stuff she didn't birth initially.) But she's kind of prolific, to a fault. It worked a bit against Prince, too. She puts out albums frequently. Her albums are roughly 2-3 years apart, which is a good time. But, the singles releases, the videos, then a tour - it goes on and on and on and on. It's overexposure. I love ol' girl. She's fun to listen to, it's good party music. But at some point, I'd like to turn on TV or radio or whatever and not hear Beyonce. That old adage of "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" is true in music. There's just too much Bey sometimes.

Even though Prince was doing an album a year, there was still downtime. That last time often lagged on the charts, and people sort of moved onto an MJ single, or Cyndi Lauper or Duran Duran or Human League. There was plenty to fill the gaps. We could figuratively 'forget' Prince wasn't doing anything, and focus elsewhere. Then when he showed up with a new record, it was like "OH MY GOD BECKY! Let's go to Sam Goody now to get the new Prince record. Seriously, I'm borrowing my mom's Cutlass and I'm coming to get you."

These days, there's such a gap in good music coming out. And most of the good music you have to dig for on the indie side of things. Record companies are pushing lackluster and mediocre talent with a lot of glitz and hype and photoshop and auto-tune. They have a popular song, but then you buy the record and it's like "fuck!" It sucks. I think people like Bey see that, and put out music to fill that gap and get that money. She might like working, so that leads to the frequency of output as well. JT's The 20/20 Experience go so much attention because it had been seven years since FutureSex/LoveSounds. Fans and some of the public were craving new JT output. Bey doesn't give fans that sort of time to gestate. At some point, the consumer is going to think "I'm so tired of her....", and it's really just too much. I need Beyonce to go way for a year, and not see or hear from her. Make me want it again, don't keep an IV with a Beyonce drip. I'ma get sick real fast.

Lemonade is a bit of BEYONCE part 2. She clearly ran off the back of the BEYONCE record (which I loved more than anything else she'd done, because it was so different and un-Beyonce). That might have felt a bit too familiar to fans.

Drunk In Love was number 2 on the R&B charts not the pop charts and a Hit single is a #1 single, not a number 2, not a number 3 or a number 4 on the pop Billboard charts. She has not had a number one hit single since Single Ladies which was back in 2008.

mjscarousal said:

Drunk In Love was number 2 on the R&B charts not the pop charts and a Hit single is a #1 single, not a number 2, not a number 3 or a number 4 on the pop Billboard charts. She has not had a number one hit single since Single Ladies which was back in 2008.

I'm never sure why people dismiss the R&B charts. She's a black artist making hits on the black charts. How is this secondary to mainstream white pop charts?

TrivialPursuit said:

mjscarousal said:

Drunk In Love was number 2 on the R&B charts not the pop charts and a Hit single is a #1 single, not a number 2, not a number 3 or a number 4 on the pop Billboard charts. She has not had a number one hit single since Single Ladies which was back in 2008.

I'm never sure why people dismiss the R&B charts. She's a black artist making hits on the black charts. How is this secondary to mainstream white pop charts?

Because the hits that the OP were referring to are number one hit singles whether they are on the R&B charts or not.

I am not dismissing the R&B charts but in the context of Beyonce and her hits she does not chart very high on other charts at this point in her career outside of the R&B charts and again she has not had a number one song on either chart whether its R&B or Hot 100 since 2008. A hit is a number one song. A successful song charts in the Top 10 but that doesn't mean its the same as a number one song which you implied.

mjscarousal said:

TrivialPursuit said:

thedoorkeeper said:

At some point in a superstars career the hits stop coming. Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna - all are examples of superstars who once enjoyed numerous hit singles when they were at their peak. As the years go by they still have albums that sell well & successful tours but hit singles become a thing of the past. And it seems Beyonce has entered that phase of her career - still going strong with album sales & a successful tour but Beyonce hasn't had a hit single in years. She has definitely moved into the Legend category. I think her days of hit singles is long gone.

She is in the Erotica stage of her career so it is right on time actually. Making good albums and okay singles. She has become more revealing and personal in her music,very infectious as a performer and more mysterious by not giving interviews ( A PRINCE MOVE). Which is why we are still enamored by her.

mjscarousal said:

Because the hits that the OP were referring to are number one hit singles whether they are on the R&B charts or not.

I am not dismissing the R&B charts but in the context of Beyonce and her hits she does not chart very high on other charts at this point in her career outside of the R&B charts and again she has not had a number one song on either chart whether its R&B or Hot 100 since 2008. A hit is a number one song. A successful song charts in the Top 10 but that doesn't mean its the same as a number one song which you implied.

I should restate. I didn't want you to think I was being accusatory. I wasn't. My statement was more a generalized statement, not pointed toward you. For me, the R&B charts are as important as the gentrified Top 200 or Top 100, etc., especially to R&B artists. A hit is a hit, and even if one segment of listeners dig a song enough to put it on the charts. (I'm glad they aren't called Black Music charts or whatever anymore. It was so archaic back then, wasn't it?)

paisleypark4 said:

thedoorkeeper said:

At some point in a superstars career the hits stop coming. Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna - all are examples of superstars who once enjoyed numerous hit singles when they were at their peak. As the years go by they still have albums that sell well & successful tours but hit singles become a thing of the past. And it seems Beyonce has entered that phase of her career - still going strong with album sales & a successful tour but Beyonce hasn't had a hit single in years. She has definitely moved into the Legend category. I think her days of hit singles is long gone.

She is in the Erotica stage of her career so it is right on time actually. Making good albums and okay singles. She has become more revealing and personal in her music,very infectious as a performer and more mysterious by not giving interviews ( A PRINCE MOVE). Which is why we are still enamored by her.

Will we even know that until her popularity and sales descend markedly? Because my sense is megastars in the 21st century don't make money on records as much as they make it on touring and promotional deals.

To be honest, I was never really a fan of Beyonce. I will say as I have grown to appreciate music more, she's a great entertainer. The girl is bad. She's in a league all by herself, no comparison to any one. To answer the question, I believe she has peaked. She really doesn't have to record another album/single, act, or etc. She's good for life. She's very relevant and will be forever. She could just basically probably have a single every year.

thedoorkeeper said:

At some point in a superstars career the hits stop coming. Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna - all are examples of superstars who once enjoyed numerous hit singles when they were at their peak. As the years go by they still have albums that sell well & successful tours but hit singles become a thing of the past. And it seems Beyonce has entered that phase of her career - still going strong with album sales & a successful tour but Beyonce hasn't had a hit single in years. She has definitely moved into the Legend category. I think her days of hit singles is long gone.

Well, as you can see, Beyoncé on this site can be very polarizing. However there is a good intelligent discussion going on which is pleasant to my eyes.

I'm a major fan and have followed her career since 2001 when she was with DC. You make many good points. If we're talking about getting No #1 hits which is different than getting hits because believe it or not, in this decade she has 14 top 40s on the Billboard Hot 100, then she probably has peaked in that way.

Reason being is that most of her radio airplay is the Urban/Rhythmic Format, and she don't get much pop airplay compared to those who are getting #1s these days. She's not the massive #1 machine that she was with DC and early in her solo career. Not to mention, in this era, she didn't put the songs that are singles on a bunch streaming formats, like Spotify for example which is part of how a song peaks with they are on the charts. But that's another topic.

But the best thing is that she has people like myself who are major fans of hers who support what she does as far as her entertainment brand. That's why she can still sell over a million in the states and have the highest selling album released in 2016 nearly 20 years into her career when album sales, sans Adele, are catastrophically low.

What I do think is that she's in her prime in terms of her artistic creativity to what she wants to do musically. Her vocal arrangements have never been better as far as her recordings and as a fan, that's what I look forward to.

[Edited 11/3/16 16:24pm]

TrivialPursuit said:

I don't necessarily believe artists peak like that. I believe it's the consumer that changes. (Of course an artist changes and grows, so I'm not addressing that sort of change.) New trends, and ideas, and musical sensibilities come to fruition in music, and often times once bigger stars get pushed to the side in favor of the trendy and the in-the-now artist. Just as a note: "Drunk In Love" was a #2 hit, and "Formation" was in the top 10. That's a hit. "Sorry" only hit #11, but went platinum, and "Formation" and "Hold Up" went gold. Of course, it's not "Single Ladies" territory.

I've long said this about Bey: She needs to chill. Meaning, I like the music. It's catchy, it's got hooks, some song soar, some are just good grooves. (Not even going to delve into her taking songwriting credits on stuff she didn't birth initially.) But she's kind of prolific, to a fault. It worked a bit against Prince, too. She puts out albums frequently. Her albums are roughly 2-3 years apart, which is a good time. But, the singles releases, the videos, then a tour - it goes on and on and on and on. It's overexposure. I love ol' girl. She's fun to listen to, it's good party music. But at some point, I'd like to turn on TV or radio or whatever and not hear Beyonce. That old adage of "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" is true in music. There's just too much Bey sometimes.

Even though Prince was doing an album a year, there was still downtime. That last time often lagged on the charts, and people sort of moved onto an MJ single, or Cyndi Lauper or Duran Duran or Human League. There was plenty to fill the gaps. We could figuratively 'forget' Prince wasn't doing anything, and focus elsewhere. Then when he showed up with a new record, it was like "OH MY GOD BECKY! Let's go to Sam Goody now to get the new Prince record. Seriously, I'm borrowing my mom's Cutlass and I'm coming to get you."

These days, there's such a gap in good music coming out. And most of the good music you have to dig for on the indie side of things. Record companies are pushing lackluster and mediocre talent with a lot of glitz and hype and photoshop and auto-tune. They have a popular song, but then you buy the record and it's like "fuck!" It sucks. I think people like Bey see that, and put out music to fill that gap and get that money. She might like working, so that leads to the frequency of output as well. JT's The 20/20 Experience go so much attention because it had been seven years since FutureSex/LoveSounds. Fans and some of the public were craving new JT output. Bey doesn't give fans that sort of time to gestate. At some point, the consumer is going to think "I'm so tired of her....", and it's really just too much. I need Beyonce to go way for a year, and not see or hear from her. Make me want it again, don't keep an IV with a Beyonce drip. I'ma get sick real fast.

Lemonade is a bit of BEYONCE part 2. She clearly ran off the back of the BEYONCE record (which I loved more than anything else she'd done, because it was so different and un-Beyonce). That might have felt a bit too familiar to fans.

When you speak of "fans", are you talking about " The Bey Hive", her loyal fanbase that keeps her popular and relevant nearly 20 years into her career whether she was with DC? Or the Casual Entertainment fan? Cause no one is forcing anyone to buy her work. You either like it or you don't? That's like telling a restaurant to close their business every 5 years so that the consumer can miss their product.

My point is that most of her fan base love what you're articulating about her pattern of releasing albums, singles and touring like that as well as love Lemonade. Think it's her best work yet(and critics agree with that btw) and look for her performing and music brand no matter how frequent it is. You're probably not part of that fanbase. That's fine but I wouldn't speaking for "The Hive" especially if you're not part of it.

[Edited 11/3/16 16:14pm]

namepeace said:

Will we even know that until her popularity and sales descend markedly? Because my sense is megastars in the 21st century don't make money on records as much as they make it on touring and promotional deals.

You're right. However, I think what the OP is speaking on is she able to get a #1 again or that's it for her and I would say with the way she and her team does things, I would say yes. Now you can argue that #1 songs don't equal popularity. Streaming is supposed to be the thing that reflects the popularity of a recording entertainer now but what if an artist is a streaming giant but their albums only sell wood. How popular are they really? How big is their brand, really?

If a song is #1, is it about the song or the entertainer? Because the casual entertainer aren't usually major fans of an entertainer. If it is a "bop", they stream it usually. Singles don't even sell like they use to. The Casual entertainment fan is likely to stream a song than buy it. So for me, it's about an entertainer making their brand big enough, having a loyal fanbase big enough that they don't need massive #1s to continue to have longevity in the industry.

not sure if she's peaked or not, but her sister has 2 songs on her new album ('Junie" and "Cranes In The Sky") that are better than anything Beyonce has ever done (except for maybe, "Love On Top")..

for whatever thats worth...

TrivialPursuit said:

mjscarousal said:

Because the hits that the OP were referring to are number one hit singles whether they are on the R&B charts or not.

I am not dismissing the R&B charts but in the context of Beyonce and her hits she does not chart very high on other charts at this point in her career outside of the R&B charts and again she has not had a number one song on either chart whether its R&B or Hot 100 since 2008. A hit is a number one song. A successful song charts in the Top 10 but that doesn't mean its the same as a number one song which you implied.

I should restate. I didn't want you to think I was being accusatory. I wasn't. My statement was more a generalized statement, not pointed toward you. For me, the R&B charts are as important as the gentrified Top 200 or Top 100, etc., especially to R&B artists. A hit is a hit, and even if one segment of listeners dig a song enough to put it on the charts. (I'm glad they aren't called Black Music charts or whatever anymore. It was so archaic back then, wasn't it?)

Fair enough, thanks and my point was to clarify the type of hits the OP was referring too which were number one singles and that is why they said Beyonce has so little, she only has 5.

MotownSubdivision said:

mjscarousal said:

Drunk In Love was number 2 on the R&B charts not the pop charts and a Hit single is a #1 single, not a number 2, not a number 3 or a number 4 on the pop Billboard charts. She has not had a number one hit single since Single Ladies which was back in 2008.

Anything song or album that lands in the Top 40 is considered a hit whether it's #1 or #40. Beyonce has gotten as popular as she can get so yes, she has peaked. Album sales have never really been her strong suit (according to Wikipedia her worldwide sales are just over 35 million) she's got many hit singles but her stats aren't as impressive as one may think with just 5 #1's (only 2 of which have no featured artist) and 9 non-#1 Top 10 hits. Not bad at all but it's been done better before and after her. None of her Lemonade singles have hit #1 on the pop charts with the most successful one ("Formation") just making the Top 10. Lemonade itself only topped the pop charts for a week before the season of Drake set in. In Beyonce's case, it's a combination of great overexposure and just being on the downhill commercial run that all (longtime) popular artists experience; it's happened to the best of them. I'm certainly no fan of Beyonce but honestly, what more can she do at this point? She's had a successful career as both a member of DC and as a solo artist and has basically reaped every benefit from it. I'm noticing more people tiring of her as well so I think her commercial peak has definitely been reached.

Thank you and that is my point. Statistically, her stats does not match her hype and there have been artists before and after her that sell more and chart higher as well as have more hits. Beyonce is a media and industry darling and at this point in career is more famous for being Beyonce than for her actual music or the quality of her performances. I don't see this fascination over Beyonce in real life and most people I run into casually find her overrated including people in their 20s and teens I've talked too. This "dominance" seems to be a media made up facade and veering toward propaganda territory because her music and performaces are trash. She is not better than Michael, Janet, Madonna, or Tina Turner so they can miss me with the bullshit in this thread...But yea I agree with you post Im just sick and tired of her, she is soooooo overrated.

mjscarousal said:

MotownSubdivision said:

mjscarousal said: Anything song or album that lands in the Top 40 is considered a hit whether it's #1 or #40. Beyonce has gotten as popular as she can get so yes, she has peaked. Album sales have never really been her strong suit (according to Wikipedia her worldwide sales are just over 35 million) she's got many hit singles but her stats aren't as impressive as one may think with just 5 #1's (only 2 of which have no featured artist) and 9 non-#1 Top 10 hits. Not bad at all but it's been done better before and after her. None of her Lemonade singles have hit #1 on the pop charts with the most successful one ("Formation") just making the Top 10. Lemonade itself only topped the pop charts for a week before the season of Drake set in. In Beyonce's case, it's a combination of great overexposure and just being on the downhill commercial run that all (longtime) popular artists experience; it's happened to the best of them. I'm certainly no fan of Beyonce but honestly, what more can she do at this point? She's had a successful career as both a member of DC and as a solo artist and has basically reaped every benefit from it. I'm noticing more people tiring of her as well so I think her commercial peak has definitely been reached.

Thank you and that is my point. Statistically, her stats does not match her hype and there have been artists before and after her that sell more and chart higher as well as have more hits. Beyonce is a media and industry darling and at this point in career is more famous for being Beyonce than for her actual music or the quality of her performances. I don't see this fascination over Beyonce in real life and most people I run into casually find her overrated including people in their 20s and teens I've talked too. This "dominance" seems to be a media made up facade and veering toward propaganda territory because her music and performaces are trash. She is not better than Michael, Janet, Madonna, or Tina Turner so they can miss me with the bullshit in this thread...But yea I agree with you post Im just sick and tired of her, she is soooooo overrated.

I agree with you to some extend, but she is not more overrated than Adele, and look how huge Adele's sales are, Beyoncé has got very good songs throughout his carreer.

214 said:

mjscarousal said:

Thank you and that is my point. Statistically, her stats does not match her hype and there have been artists before and after her that sell more and chart higher as well as have more hits. Beyonce is a media and industry darling and at this point in career is more famous for being Beyonce than for her actual music or the quality of her performances. I don't see this fascination over Beyonce in real life and most people I run into casually find her overrated including people in their 20s and teens I've talked too. This "dominance" seems to be a media made up facade and veering toward propaganda territory because her music and performaces are trash. She is not better than Michael, Janet, Madonna, or Tina Turner so they can miss me with the bullshit in this thread...But yea I agree with you post Im just sick and tired of her, she is soooooo overrated.

I agree with you to some extend, but she is not more overrated than Adele, and look how huge Adele's sales are, Beyoncé has got very good songs throughout his carreer.

Beyonce is the most overrated pop star of all time. She has more grammies than Michael, Prince, Marvin Gaye, Sly, Marvin, Funkadelic, and she is about 5 awards away from being the most awarded ever.

She is definitly more overrated than Adele Lol. Adele also makes much better music and is a better singer.

mjscarousal said:

214 said:

I agree with you to some extend, but she is not more overrated than Adele, and look how huge Adele's sales are, Beyoncé has got very good songs throughout his carreer.

Beyonce is the most overrated pop star of all time. She has more grammies than Michael, Prince, Marvin Gaye, Sly, Marvin, Funkadelic, and she is about 5 awards away from being the most awarded ever.

She is definitly more overrated than Adele Lol. Adele also makes much better music and is a better singer.

Of course she has more awards than them, because The Grammys keep chopping and changing their categories, hence she has more chances to win these awards......plus she hasn't got that much competition. The same thing applies with Drake's recent AMA nominations......he has more that MJ because their are more categories today than there was in 1984.

does she really write her own songs???