SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

This has nothing to do with Michael so why bring him up?

I am not speaking in terms of impact. I am strictly referring to the way JT has been branded image and musically marketed as. His entire solo career has been fake water down imitations of black music as wel as his image. He also tries to associate himself with Black artists. He gets showered with grammys and awards as if makin R&B music is something that he innovated when D Angelo, Mint Condition and Anthony Hamilton been doing it since the beginning and do it better. My issue is that he is marginally talented and makes so so music but he is elevated more than what he is. All he does is steal from Black culture but he is always presented as inventive and innovative when he is not.

Thank you....these folks are being disingenous really but they know exactly the point being made. Denial is a powerful tactic to keep right along with bad behavior....

Its disingenuous and immaturity. Cultural Appropiation is real, this is not a joke.

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Thank you....these folks are being disingenous really but they know exactly the point being made. Denial is a powerful tactic to keep right along with bad behavior....

Its disingenuous and immaturity. Cultural Appropiation is real, this is not a joke.

Right! It's one thing if you're Michael McDonald, Teena Marie, hell even Paul Wall....but Justin TimberFAKE likes to "play black" and then when the lights and camera turn off he distances himself from black people...anyone who says he does anything otherwise is a liar.

mjscarousal said:

Cinny said:

It's this logic that I keep reading and don't agree with. You always start with his skin, and end with that.

You might would understand better if you actually read my posts instead of taking words and phrases out of context to derive to your own assumptions.

Amazing how some people in this thread are upset that people don't like like Justin Timberlake but then say we are only saying we don't like him because he's white doing "black" music....yeah okay, THAT is the reason. Nevermind the fact that he's MEDIOCRE...that's not the reason huh? So, all of the promotion and accolades he gets is because he's just soooooooooo much better than the black artists who are underpromoted and not treated well by these same record labels....

^Agree with everything sis! Tell em girl!

mjscarousal said:

^Agree with everything sis! Tell em girl!

How much you wanna bet that Timberfake is going to drop a 2016 version of this song below and then these same folks in this thread will herald it as a great renaissance for "R&B" LOLOLOL

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

You might would understand better if you actually read my posts instead of taking words and phrases out of context to derive to your own assumptions.

Amazing how some people in this thread are upset that people don't like like Justin Timberlake but then say we are only saying we don't like him because he's white doing "black" music....yeah okay, THAT is the reason. Nevermind the fact that he's MEDIOCRE...that's not the reason huh? So, all of the promotion and accolades he gets is because he's just soooooooooo much better than the black artists who are underpromoted and not treated well by these same record labels....

Prove or show that Justin Timberlake is "mediocre." Prove or show that the media's hype of
Justin Timberlake has included claims that he's "just sooooooooooo much better than the black
artists who are underpromoted and not treated well by these same record labels."

I think if you can't do these two things, then you should leave the thread.

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Thank you....these folks are being disingenous really but they know exactly the point being made. Denial is a powerful tactic to keep right along with bad behavior....

Its disingenuous and immaturity. Cultural Appropiation is real, this is not a joke.

There is a difference between "culture vulture-ism" and "cultural appropriation." For example:
my father was in the military so we lived overseas. We spent four years in Okinawa. There, I
took karate and drank green tea and did other things that were in line with Japanese and Oki-
nawan culture that was outside our American culture. I have appropriated the practice of drinking
green tea in my diet here in the states. I respect Japanese and Okinawan cultural aspects. So,
I think you are using words carelessly and you are not thinking much about what you're saying in
this thread. There can be a positive cultural appropriation like when you eat pizza or sushi.

Boy, you are consistent with your racism, as this is strictly a case built on Justin Timberlake's
skin color. Proof? We would not be having this argument if Justin Timberlake was a Black
Nigerian, completely new to Black American art forms, and using Michael Jackson and R&B
pop as his template for performing/recording pop music. Your argument is racist because you
don't think about what you're saying.

[Edited 3/25/16 2:31am]

Cinny said:

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

^Agree with everything sis! Tell em girl!

How much you wanna bet that Timberfake is going to drop a 2016 version of this song below and then these same folks in this thread will herald it as a great renaissance for "R&B" LOLOLOL

Didn't Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars already do that last year?

duccichucka said:

mjscarousal said:

Its disingenuous and immaturity. Cultural Appropiation is real, this is not a joke.

There is a difference between "culture vulture-ism" and "cultural appropriation." For example:
my father was in the military so we lived overseas. We spent four years in Okinawa. There, I
took karate and drank green tea and did other things that were in line with Japanese and Oki-
nawan culture that was outside our American culture. I have appropriated the practice of drinking
green tea in my diet here in the states. I respect Japanese and Okinawan cultural aspects. So,
I think you are using words carelessly and you are not thinking much about what you're saying in
this thread. There can be a positive cultural appropriation like when you eat pizza or sushi.

Boy, you are consistent with your racism, as this is strictly a case built on Justin Timberlake's
skin color. Proof? We would not be having this argument if Justin Timberlake was a Black
Nigerian, completely new to Black American art forms, and using Michael Jackson and R&B
pop as his template for performing/recording pop music. Your argument is racist because you
don't think about what you're saying.

[Edited 3/25/16 2:31am]

Your argument is racist and you are beyond ignorant and pathetic. You have no clue what cultural appropiation is but keep spewing your immaturity and ignorance since that is what you are good at.

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

You might would understand better if you actually read my posts instead of taking words and phrases out of context to derive to your own assumptions.

Amazing how some people in this thread are upset that people don't like like Justin Timberlake Nevermind the fact that he's MEDIOCRE...

Bingo.

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

Your argument is racist and you are beyond ignorant and pathetic. You have no clue what cultural appropiation is but keep spewing your immaturity and ignorance since that is what you are good at.

He'll never admit Timberfake is a swagger jacker but denial doesn't erase the truth!

Watch him come back here and cuss us out and call us everything but a child of god

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said: He'll never admit Timberfake is a swagger jacker but denial doesn't erase the truth!

Watch him come back here and cuss us out and call us everything but a child of god

That dialogue he wrote is a sign he has no life LOL

Ellie said:

As I'm a white British woman (the same age as Justin Timberlake) who grew up with many aspects of American culture and black American culture simply due to my personal taste in music and film etc. I can't say much. I never thought of him as what you call a Swagger Jagger, but the attention he got for his first album did irk me a lot due to the following reasons: 1. During the promotion for him launching his solo career, he decided to pretend that he was influenced by Coldplay, Radiohead (unable to even find a connection there) and Frank Sinatra, even so much as saying the fedora came from him. He completely dismissed any mention of Michael Jackson and instead pretended that he directly got influence from James Brown. He did once go as far as saying he loved Off The Wall and Thriller only (because the general media think it's only acceptable to like MJ before his skin got light), but he was straight up jacking the image and music from Bad and Dangerous, which makes more sense as they are the eras he grew up with directly. Much the same as when Christina Aguilera stated Etta James was her childhood idol and not Mariah Carey. Of course Timberlake and Aguilera probably are fans of James Brown and Etta James, but likely only because they learned of them through their own childhood idols. Me personally grew up adoring Michael Jackson. I learned a hell of a lot about pop culture before my time through him. 2. Nothing to do with Timberlake himself, but the media put him on a pedestal based on his commercial success, when he didn't actually have all that much. The sales of his albums were mediocre yet at the same time there were more popular acts with a lower media profile (Usher's Confessions sold way more).. It's not even necessarily a race thing because I swear the same thing happened in reverse in the early 00s where Pink was more successful than Beyoncé, but Beyoncé appeared to reap the apparent accolades associated with commercial success. It's really that the press seem to decide who or what they want to portray as the biggest and the best, regardless of facts. [Edited 3/25/16 22:34pm]

Such a RATIONAL and MATURE post that objectiveLY and MATURELY crtiques BOTH sides. THANKYOU, THANKYOU AND THANKYOU!!!!!!!!

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

Watch him come back here and cuss us out and call us everything but a child of god

That dialogue he wrote is a sign he has no life LOL

Pretty much. I mean anytime you have to irately cuss somebodyout for no aparent reason means that something is not clicking upstairs. Especially calling a woman out her name, I just can't

Ellie said:

As I'm a white British woman (the same age as Justin Timberlake) who grew up with many aspects of American culture and black American culture simply due to my personal taste in music and film etc. I can't say much. I never thought of him as what you call a Swagger Jagger, but the attention he got for his first album did irk me a lot due to the following reasons: 1. During the promotion for him launching his solo career, he decided to pretend that he was influenced by Coldplay, Radiohead (unable to even find a connection there) and Frank Sinatra, even so much as saying the fedora came from him. He completely dismissed any mention of Michael Jackson and instead pretended that he directly got influence from James Brown. He did once go as far as saying he loved Off The Wall and Thriller only (because the general media think it's only acceptable to like MJ before his skin got light), but he was straight up jacking the image and music from Bad and Dangerous, which makes more sense as they are the eras he grew up with directly. Much the same as when Christina Aguilera stated Etta James was her childhood idol and not Mariah Carey. Of course Timberlake and Aguilera probably are fans of James Brown and Etta James, but likely only because they learned of them through their own childhood idols. Me personally grew up adoring Michael Jackson. I learned a hell of a lot about pop culture before my time through him. 2. Nothing to do with Timberlake himself, but the media put him on a pedestal based on his commercial success, when he didn't actually have all that much. The sales of his albums were mediocre yet at the same time there were more popular acts with a lower media profile (Usher's Confessions sold way more).. It's not even necessarily a race thing because I swear the same thing happened in reverse in the early 00s where Pink was more successful than Beyoncé, but Beyoncé appeared to reap the apparent accolades associated with commercial success. It's really that the press seem to decide who or what they want to portray as the biggest and the best, regardless of facts. [Edited 3/25/16 22:34pm]

Thanks so much for your opinion. It's appreciated. I think because of things that have happened throughout history, that's why a lot of people consider race/racism to be a factor. If you have time, go on Youtube to find videos about racism and the distribution of music. Even up until around 1982/3 MTV refused to play black artists and the letter that circulated from the execs made it clear not to play black artists. It's frustrating to hear people say something "isn't about race" when this country was (and still) operates from a view point that is deeply seeded in racism and white supremacy being "the standard". It's such a heavily ingrained part of our society that people can't (or won't) see it, especially when it comes to the entertainment industry.

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

That dialogue he wrote is a sign he has no life LOL

Pretty much. I mean anytime you have to irately cuss somebodyout for no aparent reason means that something is not clicking upstairs. Especially calling a woman out her name, I just can't

The truth hurts

SeventeenDayze said:

Thanks so much for your opinion. It's appreciated. I think because of things that have happened throughout history, that's why a lot of people consider race/racism to be a factor. If you have time, go on Youtube to find videos about racism and the distribution of music. Even up until around 1982/3 MTV refused to play black artists and the letter that circulated from the execs made it clear not to play black artists. It's frustrating to hear people say something "isn't about race" when this country was (and still) operates from a view point that is deeply seeded in racism and white supremacy being "the standard". It's such a heavily ingrained part of our society that people can't (or won't) see it, especially when it comes to the entertainment industry.

That might be true, but on the other hand, sometimes history tries to put it all in a neat little box with a bow on top, such as the story of MJ being the first black artist on MTV. He might have been the first one to be playlisted and circulated on MTV and definitely broke down a lot of barriers, but he certainly wasn't the first to be played at all (Eddy Grant, Musical Youth and Prince were all on quite regularly the year before Billie Jean).

I see that stuff all the time and half of it isn't true. The worst is the case when all those "talking heads" like to talk about the popularity of Grunge music in the early 90s, marking Nirvana knocking Dangerous off the Billboard charts as some seminal moment to signify some kind of passing a baton of genres. Oh, never mind the fact that the majority of the biggest hits for the next year came from Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men. Seriously, according to all of those shows, GRUNGE was taking over the "whole world" after Nirvana's Nevermind hit number one at the end of 1991... let's look at the biggest US hits of 1992, shall we?

https://en.wikipedia.org/...es_of_1992

[Edited 3/26/16 8:55am]

Ellie said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Thanks so much for your opinion. It's appreciated. I think because of things that have happened throughout history, that's why a lot of people consider race/racism to be a factor. If you have time, go on Youtube to find videos about racism and the distribution of music. Even up until around 1982/3 MTV refused to play black artists and the letter that circulated from the execs made it clear not to play black artists. It's frustrating to hear people say something "isn't about race" when this country was (and still) operates from a view point that is deeply seeded in racism and white supremacy being "the standard". It's such a heavily ingrained part of our society that people can't (or won't) see it, especially when it comes to the entertainment industry.

That might be true, but on the other hand, sometimes history tries to put it all in a neat little box with a bow on top, such as the story of MJ being the first black artist on MTV. He might have been the first one to be playlisted and circulated on MTV and definitely broke down a lot of barriers, but he certainly wasn't the first to be played at all (Eddy Grant, Musical Youth and Prince were all on quite regularly the year before Billie Jean).

I see that stuff all the time and half of it isn't true. The worst is the case when all those "talking heads" like to talk about the popularity of Grunge music in the early 90s, marking Nirvana knocking Dangerous off the Billboard charts as some seminal moment to signify some kind of passing a baton of genres. Oh, never mind the fact that the majority of the biggest hits for the next year came from Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men. Seriously, according to all of those shows, GRUNGE was taking over the "whole world" after Nirvana's Nevermind hit number one at the end of 1991... let's look at the biggest US hits of 1992, shall we?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1992

[Edited 3/26/16 8:54am]

I went out of my way to make sure I didn't say MJ was the first black artist played on MTV Yes, Prince was a pioneer in that regard. As far as the grunge music thing in the 90s...perhaps the media was just clammoring to paint MJ as "passe" because after all, he had bought that Sony/ATV catalog and it pissed off the higher ups who were probably more content with MJ being a song and dance man instead of a business man...

SeventeenDayze said:

I went out of my way to make sure I didn't say MJ was the first black artist played on MTV Yes, Prince was a pioneer in that regard. As far as the grunge music thing in the 90s...perhaps the media was just clammoring to paint MJ as "passe" because after all, he had bought that Sony/ATV catalog and it pissed off the higher ups who were probably more content with MJ being a song and dance man instead of a business man...

Oh, I'm sure, but it's not even just an MJ vs. the media thing. It's everywhere with those nostalgia shows. Here in the UK there's this big myth that Firestarter by The Prodigy was a massive movement in anarchy in 1996 and that Brit Pop was some kind of national movement. Apparently in 1997 after the death of Princess Diana, everyone was in mourning for the next year and the charts reflected it with the obsession over The Verve, Radiohead and Robbie Williams' Angels. You know what knocked Elton John off #1? Spice Up Your Life, followed by Barbie Girl, shortly after followed by The Teletubbies! They never mention that.

It kind of shows the old saying - say something often enough and you'll start to believe it (to loosely quote MJ). And this is just music history, so it makes me wonder what else the media lies about (pretty much everything).



[Edited 3/26/16 9:21am]

Ellie said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I went out of my way to make sure I didn't say MJ was the first black artist played on MTV Yes, Prince was a pioneer in that regard. As far as the grunge music thing in the 90s...perhaps the media was just clammoring to paint MJ as "passe" because after all, he had bought that Sony/ATV catalog and it pissed off the higher ups who were probably more content with MJ being a song and dance man instead of a business man...

Oh, I'm sure, but it's not even just an MJ vs. the media thing. It's everywhere with those nostalgia shows. Here in the UK there's this big myth that Firestarter by The Prodigy was a massive movement in anarchy in 1996 and that Brit Pop was some kind of national movement. Apparently in 1997 after the death of Princess Diana, everyone was in mourning for the next year and the charts reflected it with the obsession over The Verve, Radiohead and Robbie Williams' Angels. You know what knocked Elton John off #1? Spice Up Your Life, followed by Barbie Girl, shortly after followed by The Teletubbies! They never mention that.

It kind of shows the old saying - say something often enough and you'll start to believe it (to loosely quote MJ). And this is just music history, so it makes me wonder what else the media lies about (pretty much everything).



[Edited 3/26/16 9:21am]

That's true. Btw, why is your text so small? LOL...Anyway, I agree. Many people fall into the trap of believing revisionist history. But, you could put 10 people in a room and ask them to write about a particular historical event and you'll undoubtedly get ten different accounts...

For some reason this form doesn't allow me use spaces between paragraphs unless I format the text to be tiny!

SeventeenDayze said:

Ellie said:

Oh, I'm sure, but it's not even just an MJ vs. the media thing. It's everywhere with those nostalgia shows. Here in the UK there's this big myth that Firestarter by The Prodigy was a massive movement in anarchy in 1996 and that Brit Pop was some kind of national movement. Apparently in 1997 after the death of Princess Diana, everyone was in mourning for the next year and the charts reflected it with the obsession over The Verve, Radiohead and Robbie Williams' Angels. You know what knocked Elton John off #1? Spice Up Your Life, followed by Barbie Girl, shortly after followed by The Teletubbies! They never mention that.

It kind of shows the old saying - say something often enough and you'll start to believe it (to loosely quote MJ). And this is just music history, so it makes me wonder what else the media lies about (pretty much everything).



[Edited 3/26/16 9:21am]

That's true. Btw, why is your text so small? LOL...Anyway, I agree. Many people fall into the trap of believing revisionist history. But, you could put 10 people in a room and ask them to write about a particular historical event and you'll undoubtedly get ten different accounts...

Very good post. It falls into the same trap as "eye witnesses" They all will have different accounts. The thing about history is that its so dimensional and people have different experiences, life styles etc. So its all bound to be different for different people in how they remember it.

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

That's true. Btw, why is your text so small? LOL...Anyway, I agree. Many people fall into the trap of believing revisionist history. But, you could put 10 people in a room and ask them to write about a particular historical event and you'll undoubtedly get ten different accounts...

Very good post. It falls into the same trap as "eye witnesses" They all will have different accounts. The thing about history is that its so dimensional and people have different experiences, life styles etc. So its all bound to be different for different people in how they remember it.

Right. It all comes down to the person's experiences and how they recall certain things. You could hae something happen and then ask them about it. Then, you could ask a year later about the same events and they might have a totally different recollection about something altogether. I think when it comes to Timberfake though the media tries to hype him up to be something that he's not. He's not even close to MJ but you have people in the media who seriously (or have been paid to say) that he seriously is?? What a joke.

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

Very good post. It falls into the same trap as "eye witnesses" They all will have different accounts. The thing about history is that its so dimensional and people have different experiences, life styles etc. So its all bound to be different for different people in how they remember it.

Right. It all comes down to the person's experiences and how they recall certain things. You could hae something happen and then ask them about it. Then, you could ask a year later about the same events and they might have a totally different recollection about something altogether. I think when it comes to Timberfake though the media tries to hype him up to be something that he's not. He's not even close to MJ but you have people in the media who seriously (or have been paid to say) that he seriously is?? What a joke.

JT super fake. He benefits greatly from his white priveleged

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Right. It all comes down to the person's experiences and how they recall certain things. You could hae something happen and then ask them about it. Then, you could ask a year later about the same events and they might have a totally different recollection about something altogether. I think when it comes to Timberfake though the media tries to hype him up to be something that he's not. He's not even close to MJ but you have people in the media who seriously (or have been paid to say) that he seriously is?? What a joke.

JT super fake. He benefits greatly from his white priveleged

Run for your life MJ, LOL....run for your life! LOL

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

JT super fake. He benefits greatly from his white priveleged

Run for your life MJ, LOL....run for your life! LOL