LittleBLUECorvette said:

What's goin on in here?

The Jacksons are still pissed they didn't get a grammy. They most certainly should have for 'Shake your body (down to the ground)' and Scorp now works for the Saudi Arabian tourist board, and I don't... Something about Janet too. In the wrong thread. Where's the Janet sticky? Again? where is it? There'll be a flood of Janet threads in a few days. Watch. It'll be unbearable.

[Edited 9/28/15 18:28pm]

Lawd....

Real talk, peeps better get back on topic or they'll lock this thread and refer everybody to the sticky of doom.



edit....I certainly think they deserved a grammy. I know that nobody's automatically entitled to anything, but still.

[Edited 9/28/15 18:34pm]

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Marrk said:

mjscarousal said:

^ But what does someone's age have to do the fact that you are an ex-MJ fan who hates Michael? None of that justifies that your opinions are just that, opinions. Did you bother to read any of the facts that have been posted about the publishing and royalities? Probably not because you do not care about that. You don't care about the facts. You just care about asserting your delusions and hatred for MJ. You can sit here all day long and talk about back in "your day" but the fact of the matter is... you don't like Michael anymore. Your clearly not a fan. I wish you stop perpetuating that dislike on others having the problem when it is really you. People don't have to mold their opinions to your liking. Again, this has nothing to do with upholding lies, someone's age or whatever twisted delusion you think. These are all opinions. The fact that you can't even address the information someone presented that pretty much debunks your claims regarding the Jacksons publishing is sad. Are you that blinded by your hatred for Michael Jackson that you can not maturely admit when you clearly have been misinformed?

I'm a start w/point A before getting to point B..........

besides your miscalculation that I'm an ex fan of MJ.......ex fans don't buy all of his solo albums the day they were released and adhere to his musical message, a message embraced yesterday, today, forever......the one constant throughout all of this was the message, and listen to that message continuously to this very day.......so let's get that out of the way about this notion of being an ex fan....

the more pertinent question to king of pop fans who attack anyone on site and other sites and online

tell me why in stark detail why fans of MIchael Jackson from 1969-1984, especially during the early stages of his solo career

tell me why there was no discored among his fanbase, which consisted of people from 8-80....tell me why during that whole period that I never ever had a dispute, argument, whatever u wanna call it with another Michael Jackson fan....EVER.......tell me why the conversation was on the very thing that today's following always say the focus should be on...the music..........tell me why there was no beef among MJ fans when any other member of his family comes up in the conversation.....tell me why none of this happened? tell me why there was no static

give me an explanation on all that

[Edited 9/28/15 20:11pm]

crickets

Scorp said:

Free2BMe said:

mjscarousal said:

I'm not going to speak on somebody else's behalf, but Michael Jackson was as big as you could become around 1983-84. Kids spent the next day talking about his performance at the Motown 25 special or after the debut of Thriller. It was cool to want to emulate his style with Beat It outfits or have friends over to watch The Making of Thriller. Michael Jackson was a household name across America during this time and his face was beloved by people from all walks of life.

What he did to himself, the new chin and another nosejob, turned away a lot of his original fans. His skin became lighter too and no explanation was offered, leading most to conclude that he was rejecting his racial identity. He went from being among the most respected artists in the world to a punchline.

He took a face that America loved and turned it into a face that was racially and sexually ambiguous. That's when the evaluation and criticism of his personality started. When America saw the new Michael Jackson, many fans from 69-84 rejected him. That explains why Bad managed to sell only 6 million copies in America from 1987-89 while Thriller sold about 20 million from 82-84.

While 6 million copies would be fantastic numbers for most acts, it was disappointing for an album that was the followup to the biggest seller of all time. It still hasn't managed to break the 10 million mark today, even after the surge in his album sales when he died and the promotion from Bad 25.

Bad was one of the most anticipated albums in the history of popular music and it delivered, as it was a well-crafted album. Practically every song had the potential to be a hit and the videos were spectacular, showing MJ taking his choreography to new heights.

But instead of receiving respect and admiration, it became uncool to even mention being an MJ fan by 1987. People could not get over his new face and lighter skin. Kids were no longer emulating him by wearing Bad outfits either. His music was no longer the focal point when it came to discussing Michael Jackson.

MJ planting the stories about the Elephant Man or sleeping in an oxygen chamber just added to the perception that he was a weirdo. Whatever he hoped to achieve by selling those stories to the tabloids backfired on him.

This would have happened to any major artist. If their appearance changed so drastically in a mere three years that they were nearly unrecognizable, many fans would lose interest and most of his former African American supporters began to resent him. The teenage girls that adored him during the Thriller Era also lost interest in the new MJ. He lost fans from every major demographic that made him the America's biggest star from 1983-1984.

And while many of us have supported MJ and purchased his albums like Bad, Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible, we are not oblivious to why the general public were more focused on his transformed face and weird persona than on his music, starting with Bad in 1987.

[Edited 10/1/15 20:00pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:02pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:04pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:09pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:20pm]

Free2BMe said:

why is it that threads about the Jacksons become so long and epic? Remember a few years ago when the brothers kidnapped Katherine and tried to re-write Michael's will (or something like that)?! That thread went on for days...LMAO.... and now here we are again with yet another long-ass Jacksons thread!! This is hilarious! I guess this thread will last for another month or so

Free2BMe said:

mjscarousal said:

Scorpio I will never understand what your problem is with Michael. It appears to be deep seeded. You paint yourself as a MJ fan which you probably were but you obviously are not anymore. The truth of the matter is you are an ex- MJ fan and you hate Michael. I just wish you admit that and stop pretending you are a fan when you obviously are an old disgruntle fan. You constatly go out of your way to throw shade, criticize and to attack him. Nothing MJ has done in his career or personal life is never right to you. You never think any of his siblings or parents have done anything questionable when it comes to anything related to MJ. Its okay if you don't like him but I don't see the point in going on and on with these redundant conspiracy theories like they are "facts". You hate Michael and love Janet and the rest of the other siblings, fine but please stop asserting your conspiracies and assumptions as facts. These are not facts, these are just your opinions. Receipts have been provided to shut down your opinions and even still you will come up with some delusional excuse as to why you think MJ sabataged his brothers and is the root of all evil. I don't care to go back in forth (because I know it will be like talking to a brick wall) but I just wanted to say this much at least.

[Edited 9/28/15 13:32pm]

Carousel, you are correct. Scorp doesn't care about the truth when it comes to Michael. Have you noticed he ignores The facts and continues with HIS fantasy. Seriously, I think that their is something mentally wrong with Scorp. He seems to be obzessed with Michael and acts as if he was a jilted or scorned lover. There is just something not normal about someone continually brings up Thriller as if Michael didn't release anymore albums. Scorp's obsession with Michael has affected him more than he is admitting.

It is sad.

Because scorp sounds like someone who use to really like Michael but for some reason is not a fan anymore. I really tried to reason with him to see if he would at least acknowledge the information bboy presented about the royalties and publishing and he doesn't even want to do that. Its almost as if he wants to ignore the facts just to assert his own personal assumptions. It's alright to have your opinions but if someone pointed out facts that pretty much debunk your assumptions why are you still asserting your assumptions as facts? I just don't understand it. Just admit when you are misinformed or wrong.

Let me spread some positivity in here

MichaelJackson5 said:

I'm not going to speak on somebody else's behalf, but Michael Jackson was as big as you could become around 1983-84. Kids spent the next day talking about his performance at the Motown 25 special or after the debut of Thriller. It was cool to want to emulate his style with Beat It outfits or have friends over to watch The Making of Thriller. Michael Jackson was a household name across America during this time and his face was beloved by people from all walks of life.

What he did to himself, the new chin and another nosejob, turned away a lot of his original fans. His skin became lighter too and no explanation was offered, leading most to conclude that he was rejecting his racial identity. He went from being among the most respected artists in the world to a punchline.

He took a face that America loved and turned it into a face that was racially and sexually ambiguous. That's when the evaluation and criticism of his personality started. When America saw the new Michael Jackson, many fans from 69-84 rejected him. That explains why Bad managed to sell only 6 million copies in America from 1987-89 while Thriller sold about 20 million from 82-84.

While 6 million copies would be fantastic numbers for most acts, it was disappointing for an album that was the followup to the biggest seller of all time. It still hasn't managed to break the 10 million mark today, even after the surge in his album sales when he died and the promotion from Bad 25.

Bad was one of the most anticipated albums in the history of popular music and it delivered, as it was a well-crafted album. Practically every song had the potential to be a hit and the videos were spectacular, showing MJ taking his choreography to new heights.

But instead of receiving respect and admiration, it became uncool to even mention being an MJ fan by 1987. People could not get over his new face and lighter skin. Kids were no longer emulating him by wearing Bad outfits either. His music was no longer the focal point when it came to discussing Michael Jackson.

MJ planting the stories about the Elephant Man or sleeping in an oxygen chamber just added to the perception that he was a weirdo. Whatever he hoped to achieve by selling those stories to the tabloids backfired on him.

This would have happened to any major artist. If their appearance changed so drastically in a mere three years that they were nearly unrecognizable, many fans would lose interest and most of his former African American supporters began to resent him. The teenage girls that adored him during the Thriller Era also lost interest in the new MJ. He lost fans from every major demographic that made him the America's biggest star from 1983-1984.

And while many of us have supported MJ and purchased his albums like Bad, Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible, we are not oblivious to why the general public were more focused on his transformed face and weird persona than on his music, starting with Bad in 1987.

[Edited 10/1/15 20:00pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:02pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:04pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:09pm]

[Edited 10/1/15 20:20pm]

100% fact of the situation

there are not haters.....there is no enemy

the enemy and the only ememy was the false image that drew Michael Jackson away from his center whereas if the false image never had been presented to him, he would still be present today making the level of music he was accustomed to and these conversations wouldn't exist

what current MJ fans need to do is interview people who they think are haters now and get a first hand account for themselves what went down...that way, they won't think a person posting responses online is a hater

why do current fans think other people are haters?...what is the exact reason for that

"I Can't Help It" is quite possibly the best song that Michael ever recorded....it's so damn soulful!! After all these decades,this song still knocks me out!! Wow!!

Well, Wonder wrote it.

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Cinny said:

There are cases where the Grammys play catch up and reward them later (ie. Steely Dan).

The difference being that Steely Dan deserve grammys and the Jacksons do not.

One critic stated that The Jackson 5's legacy was already cemented with their first four songs.

I stand by that statement.

Of course they deserved a Grammy, but they were kids, so they were overlooked.

steakfinger said:

Cinny said:

Well, Wonder wrote it.

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Wow!

.

[Edited 10/4/15 12:04pm]

dancing machine ws the biggest song of 1974, yet it was overlook by the grammys

steakfinger said:

Cinny said:

There are cases where the Grammys play catch up and reward them later (ie. Steely Dan).

The difference being that Steely Dan deserve grammys and the Jacksons do not.

I think if the Jacksons (including Michael) could have recorded a quality reunion album sometime this decade, it could have been recognized. Steely Dan's later efforts were outstanding and deserved acknowledgement, but if the Jacksons never do an album newer than 1989's 2300 Jackson Street, well sorry, there will be no reason for people to look back on their legacy.

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MichaelJackson5 said:

At least they got into the Rock n Roll HOF. Duran Duran can't even receive that honor. Take away the 4 straight No 1s the J5 enjoyed and Duran has arguably the stronger discography.

>

I don't think Duran Duran's discography takes away from J5's at all!

CynicKill said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

At least they got into the Rock n Roll HOF. Duran Duran can't even receive that honor. Take away the 4 straight No 1s the J5 enjoyed and Duran has arguably the stronger discography.

>

I don't think Duran Duran's discography takes away from J5's at all!

Duran had a much bigger influence on MTV's early days than the Jacksons. Obviously, the Victory album didn't have MJ's full involvement and the video for Torture is awful. Comparing discographies without the initial 4 No.1s by the J5 in 1969, it's debatable who had a better discography.

1980s

MichaelJackson5 said:

CynicKill said:

>

I don't think Duran Duran's discography takes away from J5's at all!

Duran had a much bigger influence on MTV's early days than the Jacksons. Obviously, the Victory album didn't have MJ's full involvement and the video for Torture is awful. Comparing discographies without the initial 4 No.1s by the J5 in 1969, it's debatable who had a better discography.

1980s

Year	Single	Peak chart positions													Certifications (sales thresholds)	Album
		UK [3]	AUS [4]	FIN [7]	FRA [8]	GER [23]	IRE [10]	ITA [11]	NL [12]	NZ [13]	SWI [24]	US [6]	US Dance [6]	US Rock [6]
1981	"Planet Earth"	12	8	—	1	—	14	—	—	—	—	—	26	—		Duran Duran
	"Careless Memories"	37	60	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	72	—
	"Girls on Film"	5	11	—	2	—	16	—	—	4	—	—	26	19
	"My Own Way"	14	10	14	—	—	20	—	—	12	—	—	—	—		Rio
1982	"Hungry Like the Wolf"	5	5	4	—	—	4	32	50	4	—	3	36	1	CAN: Gold[25] UK: Silver[26] US: Gold[27]
	"The Chauffeur"	—	—	—	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
	"Save a Prayer"	2	56	—	1	—	2	—	—	35	—		—	—	UK: Silver[26]
	"Rio"	9	60	14	—	—	9	—	—	36	—	14	—	5	UK: Silver[26]
1983	"Is There Something I Should Know?"	1	4	2	—	28	2	29	24	5	7	4	34	3	UK: Gold[26]	Non-album single but in USA with reedition of Duran Duran
	"Union of the Snake"	3	4	1	8	37	5	22	17	3	—	3	33	2	CAN: Gold[25] UK: Silver[26]	Seven and the Ragged Tiger
1984	"New Moon on Monday"	9	48	6	—	—	5	—	28	32	—	10	—	4
	"The Reflex"	1	4	3	6	8	1	11	1	6	10	1	15	35	CAN: Platinum[25] UK: Silver[26] US: Gold[27]
	"The Wild Boys"	2	3	4	10	1	2	1	3	5	2	2	27	42	CAN: Gold[25] GER: Gold[28] UK: Silver[26] US: Gold[27]	Arena
1985	"Save a Prayer" (US Single Version)	—	—	—	—	27	—	—	17	—	—	16	—	—	—	Rio
	"A View to a Kill"	2	6	6	7	9	2	1	3	13	7	1	—	42	CAN: Gold[25] UK: Silver[26]	A View to a Kill (soundtrack)
1986	"Notorious"	7	17	4	—	12	5	1	6	6	4	2	26	—		Notorious
1987	"Skin Trade"	22	—	—	—	35	10	10	11	36	—	39	—	—
	"Meet El Presidente"	24	—	—	10	54	13	16	31	—	—	70	—	—
1988	"I Don't Want Your Love"	14	23	15	10	31	8	1	11	12	15	4	1	13		Big Thing
	"All She Wants Is"	9	74	17	3	28	10	4	44	47	—	22	1	24
1989	"Do You Believe in Shame?"	30	—	22	—	—	17	7	41	—	—	72	—	—
	"Burning the Ground"	31	—	—	—	—	23	7	75	—	—	—	23	—		Decade: Greatest Hits'

The Chauffeur and Save a Prayer, while not chart hits were very underrated songs. And Duran Duran reinvigorated their sound with Ordinary World and Come Undone in the early 90s. The J5/Jacksons weren't even an entity by then.

"—" denotes releases that did not chart

Epic/CBS releases (The Jacksons)

Duran also wrote all of their hits. The J5 did not until they left Motown.

[Edited 10/6/15 20:23pm]

[Edited 10/6/15 20:26pm]