kremlinshadow said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

How were you "correcting me" when you claimed to see no serious visible damage when the tip of his nose is looking dark and unnatural in that video?

If that video doesn't prove how much damage was done to his nose already, nothing will.

Because you were being purposely provocative and dramatic, it's not hard to see in the video (which is ages old) that he has only the usual tape on the tip of his nose, which has shadow thrown on it like the bottom half of his face. It's no diffrent to how we've seen him a million times. And I stated the reasoning for the 'tape' as explained by a former patient of the same surgeon, so the appearance is nothing new and nothing to twist into debate.

[Edited 10/21/15 11:33am]

There is no deliberate drama here. His nose looked as horrible in the 1993 video as that 2002 court appearance. If you don't see the severe damage at the tip of his nose, that just shows how many MJ fans were and still are indifferent to the mutilation this man underwent to become something he was never meant to be.

If you think his nose looked fine and natural in that 2002 appearance, than to each his own.

US album sales would indicate otherwise as the public were growing wary of his changing appearance with each album after Thriller. Bad 7-8 Million, Dangerous 6-7 Million, HIStory 2-3 Million (if counted as a single album), Invincible 1.5-2 Million.

And before the allegations are brought up, Dangerous was already in the bottom half of Billboard's Hot 200 Albums by the Autumn of 1992:

http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200/1992-10-24

What I was pointing out was that his nose was already deteriorating as early as 1993 and that was the first time I saw it look that mangled at that stage of his life. That video hasn't been widely circulated since it was a private tape somebody sold to the highest bidder. If the tape has been around for "ages" why has it only surfaced on YouTube in the last year? Note how Jackson never used this one in his Private Home Movies special. Even without the tape, his nose looked disfigured in that video.

Under natural lighting conditions with no prosthetics, that's the way his nose would look like. Shadows don't make the tip of a person's nose look a zombie.

Makeup techniques, prosthetics and lighting adjustments helped MJ look "better" in televised public appearances but the 1993 Xmas tape proves it was all smoke and mirrors.

Note how bright the room is when he's presenting his home movies. That's to conceal the damage inflicted on his face from years of plastic surgery and skin bleaching. In addition, he started wearing wigs in the 2000s since his hair was falling out because of all the relaxants he used for over a decade.

The tip of his nose is not the most revealing thing about this video, for me. We have discussed that to death. The thing I found most interesting was where MJ said "I am not a narcissist, just checking the camera." Really MJ, you are not a narcissist? LOL. Miss him.

Prince Michael Jackson Reveals the King of Pop May Not Be His Father

The eldest son of pop icon Michael Jackson revealed he may not be Michael’s biological son.

Many believe Prince Michael Jackson, 18, his sister Paris Jackson, 17, and their brother Bigi Jackson, 13, are not Michael’s biological seeds. It has been proven that family friend Debbie Rowe is the mother of Prince and Paris. Bigi’s mother is unknown.

A Twitter user with the handle @Akrone6 tweeted, “Everyone knows you are a Rowe-Klein NOT A Jackson!! Yall should stop trying to put on a FAKE front and get real.”

In response Prince tweeted:

From Gossip Cop:

Before his death, Michael maintained that he was indeed the biological father of his three children, but that didn’t stop rumors that Dr. Arnie Klein, the singer’s dermatologist, was in fact the kids’ dad. Klein himself hinted that he may have fathered the children when he posted on Facebook in 2013 a picture comparing Prince to one of his old driver’s licenses.

While Prince’s latest tweet indicates he might not be 100 percent sure who his biological father is, he still very much considers Michael his dad.

I guess Prince is tired of the speculation. Either way they still inherited his massive fortune..

http://sandrarose.com/2015/10/prince-michael-jackson-reveals-the-king-of-pop-may-not-be-his-father/#more-124036

Michael's nose jobs unfortunately DO have something to do with who he was as a person. It's sad what he put himself through, better yet, what doctors allowed him to be put through. It will always be a part of his story. How could it not be?

I remember one British tv channel did a show about his surgery, it was tacky and horrible, but the tagline was 'If this is what's going on outside, what's going on inside?' And that is true for anybody in life. You can sometimes spot signs of depression or Body Dismorphia in peoples outter appearence and behaviours. Their weight gain/loss, lack of self care, even too much grooming, etc. Michael had 5 or so nose jobs before the time he hit 30, and work on his nose continued for the rest of his life. That isn't fair on himself, it's not right that he was allowed to continue to the point of having a bridge being rebuilt. Not that it was a horrible nose he ended up having (and tweaking over the years), he had a cute Peter Pan nose, but his God Given nose was just fine too, it wasn't something he needed to change, it wasn't for 'higher notes' as he once said, it was because he had a complex about it, simple as.

Some say his nose surgery was something he needed because it plagued him so. Ok... for some this type of surgery is a success. But this insecurity of Michael's never went away from the time he hit puberty and he showed it back then too. When Michael had just completed The Wiz, Don Cornelius said 'You have the looks' for the movies, and Michael couldn't take that compliment at all. He went all introverted and said 'Nah'. And that never changed through his entire life, as a 40 something year old male, he told Rabbi Schumley that he thought he was ugly, that he Googled himself and couldn't bare it because he looked like 'a lizard'. He hated the photographs he saw. So nothing changed, he didn't go from 'I hate my nose' to 'Oh, I'm hot now!' or even a 'That's better'. He went down an endless road. God knows if he spoke to anyone about his plagues other than his Mother. David Gest said MJ had surgeons whispering in his ear constantly, which is not surprising. But after the third nose job didn't make him happy enough, someone could have talked to him. I'll let the second one slide, because sometimes the first nose job doesn't turn out right, so I'll let him have two for free, but as it kept going on... he needed someone to ask him if he was OK.

But what was he to do really? His friends AND family were all having work done too, I think Jackie is the only one who never had a nose job. He was in a horrible location of the world for the insecure - celebrity land.

Michael Jackson's choice of surgery has been discussed endlessly, but it always will be because it's something that the world saw happen infront of it's eyes; this young little star growing up, becoming globally beloved, yet had this constant iscolation, self doubt and deep insecurity about himself. He was a strong ox as an artist and an entertainer, but also a fawn at the same time. It's why he's very endearing to many, and beloved by sensitive people the world over.

[Edited 10/22/15 16:09pm]

[Edited 10/22/15 16:11pm]

[Edited 10/22/15 16:13pm]

......

[Edited 10/22/15 19:07pm]

tmz.com

Prince Jackson: Michael Jackson Might NOT Be My Biological Dad, But I Don't Care

10/22/2015 9:06 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

breaking news

Prince Jackson is admitting it ... there's a chance Michael Jackson isn't his biological parent, but he's also saying MJ is still dad.

This started when someone trolled Prince on Twitter by saying, "everyone knows you are a Rowe-Klein NOT A Jackson!!" Prince responded, "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb ... I was raised by my dad with my brother and sister."

Prince's statement is the closest he's ever come to saying MJ isn't blood -- but it also makes it clear Michael is the only father he's ever known.

There have been a lot of rumors claiming Dr. Arnie Klein fathered Michael's kids with Debbie Rowe. Klein added fuel to the fire in 2013 when he compared an old drivers license pic of himself to one of Prince.

But as TMZ has confirmed, and previously reported, Michael is NOT Prince's biological father ... and neither is Arnie Klein.

[Edited 10/22/15 19:30pm]

for the past 10 years, really since all this started, but for the past 10 years, I've seen king of pop fans swear up and down that Michael Jackson fathered these 3 kids, Iv'e seen insults and profanity laced tirades directed towards anyone, everyone and their moma, all across the internet and abroad who stated the obvious about this situation, I've seen physical attacks posed towards a whole sea of people who have stated the obvious, comments filled with nothing but sheer hate about a situation and a presentation that was never real, it was all smoke, and me personally, I know I've been cursed out verbatim about this situation

Michael Jackson didn't father anyone of these 3 kids soon to be adults, not one, not the oldest, not the middle, and not the youngest, it's so overbearing and intense, even this now young man is tired of the shenanigans and the charade........even the fans who have stood over hand and foot trying to convince the world MJ fathered these kids know deep down that he didn't

for the life of me, out of all the things I've witnessed in my short existence, I have been stunned and downright flabbergasted that anyone would believed he fathered these 3 kids when none possessed any physical/genetic traits of MJ did (in his natural state)

so all these pictures and clips on youtube of fans trying to prove that he fathered them, they better go ahead and bring em on down because it's time

Scorp said:

for the past 10 years, really since all this started, but for the past 10 years, I've seen king of pop fans swear up and down that Michael Jackson fathered these 3 kids, Iv'e seen insults and profanity laced tirades directed towards anyone, everyone and their moma, all across the internet and abroad who stated the obvious about this situation, I've seen physical attacks posed towards a whole sea of people who have stated the obvious, comments filled with nothing but sheer hate about a situation and a presentation that was never real, it was all smoke, and me personally, I know I've been cursed out verbatim about this situation

Michael Jackson didn't father anyone of these 3 kids soon to be adults, not one, not the oldest, not the middle, and not the youngest, it's so overbearing and intense, even this now young man is tired of the shenanigans and the charade........even the fans who have stood over hand and foot trying to convince the world MJ fathered these kids know deep down that he didn't

for the life of me, out of all the things I've witnessed in my short existence, I have been stunned and downright flabbergasted that anyone would believed he fathered these 3 kids when none possessed any physical/genetic traits of MJ did (in his natural state)

so all these pictures and clips on youtube of fans trying to prove that he fathered them, they better go ahead and bring em on down because it's time

You are delusional. He did not admit that MJ was not his father and this is TMZ you are quoting but you expect for people to take your seriously?

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

for the past 10 years, really since all this started, but for the past 10 years, I've seen king of pop fans swear up and down that Michael Jackson fathered these 3 kids, Iv'e seen insults and profanity laced tirades directed towards anyone, everyone and their moma, all across the internet and abroad who stated the obvious about this situation, I've seen physical attacks posed towards a whole sea of people who have stated the obvious, comments filled with nothing but sheer hate about a situation and a presentation that was never real, it was all smoke, and me personally, I know I've been cursed out verbatim about this situation

Michael Jackson didn't father anyone of these 3 kids soon to be adults, not one, not the oldest, not the middle, and not the youngest, it's so overbearing and intense, even this now young man is tired of the shenanigans and the charade........even the fans who have stood over hand and foot trying to convince the world MJ fathered these kids know deep down that he didn't

for the life of me, out of all the things I've witnessed in my short existence, I have been stunned and downright flabbergasted that anyone would believed he fathered these 3 kids when none possessed any physical/genetic traits of MJ did (in his natural state)

so all these pictures and clips on youtube of fans trying to prove that he fathered them, they better go ahead and bring em on down because it's time

You are delusional. He did not admit that MJ was not his father and this is TMZ you are quoting but you expect for people to take your seriously?

but I'm the one who delusional....

I'm quite sure you believe he fathered them kids

for him to even suggest it to the press shows that he not only has doubts but know he is not Michael Jacksons' biological kid

and I don't need TMZ to state the obvious

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

You are delusional. He did not admit that MJ was not his father and this is TMZ you are quoting but you expect for people to take your seriously?

but I'm the one who delusional....

I'm quite sure you believe he fathered them kids

for him to even suggest it to the press shows that he not only has doubts but know he is not Michael Jacksons' biological kid

and I don't need TMZ to state the obvious

Your quoting an unreliable source as an excuse to get on your bash mj kick. At least quote a reliable source if you are going to quote one

Scorp said:

for the past 10 years, really since all this started, but for the past 10 years, I've seen king of pop fans swear up and down that Michael Jackson fathered these 3 kids, Iv'e seen insults and profanity laced tirades directed towards anyone, everyone and their moma, all across the internet and abroad who stated the obvious about this situation, I've seen physical attacks posed towards a whole sea of people who have stated the obvious, comments filled with nothing but sheer hate about a situation and a presentation that was never real, it was all smoke, and me personally, I know I've been cursed out verbatim about this situation

Michael Jackson didn't father anyone of these 3 kids soon to be adults, not one, not the oldest, not the middle, and not the youngest, it's so overbearing and intense, even this now young man is tired of the shenanigans and the charade........even the fans who have stood over hand and foot trying to convince the world MJ fathered these kids know deep down that he didn't

for the life of me, out of all the things I've witnessed in my short existence, I have been stunned and downright flabbergasted that anyone would believed he fathered these 3 kids when none possessed any physical/genetic traits of MJ did (in his natural state)

so all these pictures and clips on youtube of fans trying to prove that he fathered them, they better go ahead and bring em on down because it's time

That's a good point. This young man openly tweeted that he has doubts Michael Jackson is his biological father and why shouldn't he? Only blind MJ stans believe those three kids have any Jackson DNA.

The truth is finally surfacing. And as great an entertainer as MJ was, he lied about almost everything since 1993..1988 if you include his biography. He wanted to be white, he wanted his children to be white too. He even bleached Prince's hair blonde to look more Aryan just like he bleached his own skin and had at least 10 nosejobs in his life.

I think now would be the perfect time for the Jackson family to come out and admit the autopsy "proving he suffered from vitiligo" was a fraud. Prince, Paris and Blanket (Bigi) should have a DNA test conducted to put this fiasco to rest once and for all.

Michael Jackson's brothers deserve the money from his estate more than these artifically created kids. I doubt Debbie Rowe was more than a surrogate, so she likely isn't even biologically related to those first two kids either.

His brothers deserve some of it because they helped Michael Jackson become a global star during the J5 era and working with him on post-Motown albums like Triumph and Destiny.

But I bet you anything the MJ fans new argument is going to be that despite not being the biological father, he was spiritually their father.

Its funny how people will twist what someone says and support false reports just to support their own agenda. Prince literally did not say that at all but these delusional non MJ stans don't give a fuq, they just hate MJ

mjscarousal said:

Its funny how people will twist what someone says and support false reports just to support their own agenda. Prince literally did not say that at all but these delusional non MJ stans don't give a fuq, they just hate MJ

I know one thing, go ahead and put your paycheck up on this bet and watch all that air that travels through those pockets because u won't be pulling out anything but lint

[Edited 10/22/15 21:20pm]

Nobody is an MJ-hater for wanting the truth about this man to be revealed once and for all.

If he didn't want to pass his DNA onto his kids, it's pretty obvious he hated his own black heritage. That's why he mutilated himself and bleached his skin. That's why Bad sold so poorly in the US compared to Thriller. People felt that if he couldn't love himself, why should they support and love him? He was still popular in Europe and Japan (where those people worship whites, just look at their anime for proof).

And if that's the case, all his excuses about being teased by his family about his nose is nothing but a lie. All his siblings except Randy had a nosejob as well as Katherine and Joe.

This story is going viral. Normal MJ fans never hated the man, they hated the false narrative and lies presented to the public over the years. MJ Stans hate the original black Michael Jackson. That's the only explanation for why they viciously attack anybody that questions the origins of Prince, Paris and Prince 2. Anyone with eyes can see those three kids don't have a strand of Jackson DNA in their genome. The chances of two biracial children looking white are statistically close to being impossible.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Its funny how people will twist what someone says and support false reports just to support their own agenda. Prince literally did not say that at all but these delusional non MJ stans don't give a fuq, they just hate MJ

I know one thing, go ahead and put your paycheck up on this bet and watch all that air that travels through those pockets because u won't be pulling out anything but lint

[Edited 10/22/15 21:20pm]

Good point. If fans such as her believe that Prince and Paris are really MJ's biological children, I dare them to put $10 000 on a wager.

But it doesn't matter because Mike was the only father they knew. You know it's coming.

MichaelJackson5 said:

Nobody is an MJ-hater for wanting the truth about this man to be revealed once and for all.

If he didn't want to pass his DNA onto his kids, it's pretty obvious he hated his own black heritage. That's why he mutilated himself and bleached his skin. That's why Bad sold so poorly in the US compared to Thriller. People felt that if he couldn't love himself, why should they support and love him? He was still popular in Europe and Japan (where those people worship whites, just look at their anime for proof).

And if that's the case, all his excuses about being teased by his family about his nose is nothing but a lie. All his siblings except Randy had a nosejob as well as Katherine and Joe.

This story is going viral. Normal MJ fans never hated the man, they hated the false narrative and lies presented to the public over the years. MJ Stans hate the original black Michael Jackson. That's the only explanation for why they viciously attack anybody that questions the origins of Prince, Paris and Prince 2. Anyone with eyes can see those three kids don't have a strand of Jackson DNA in their genome. The chances of two biracial children looking white are statistically close to being impossible.

Whatever, you have been trashing the man ever since you joined the site. Just because you have Michael Jackson in your username doens't make you a fan.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Its funny how people will twist what someone says and support false reports just to support their own agenda. Prince literally did not say that at all but these delusional non MJ stans don't give a fuq, they just hate MJ

I know one thing, go ahead and put your paycheck up on this bet and watch all that air that travels through those pockets because u won't be pulling out anything but lint

[Edited 10/22/15 21:20pm]

Thats besides the point, you sat here and insisted Prince said something that he literally did NOT say You prove your hate with every post can you at least find a credible source to support your delusions instead of making up lies?

This is right out of the kid's twitter account:

https://twitter.com/princemjjjaxon

If he thought otherwise, how come he's using this weird proverb? Why doesn't he just say "I know my biological father and that was the King of Pop, Michael Jackson"?

Learn to read between the lines, the kid knows the only thing MJ did was raise him.

Like MJ said:

But the kid is not my son
She says I am the one, but the kid is not my son

Talk about life imitating art.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

I know one thing, go ahead and put your paycheck up on this bet and watch all that air that travels through those pockets because u won't be pulling out anything but lint

[Edited 10/22/15 21:20pm]

Thats besides the point, you sat here and insisted Prince said something that he literally did NOT say You prove your hate with every post can you at least find a credible source to support your delusions instead of making up lies?

it ain't just tmz, google the name Michael Jackson and see what you pull up, its' all over

when this is all said and done, you will see that there was never any haters

there was no enemy, the enemy was the false image itself........

Aren't there some Anti- MJ boards yall can go too?

MattyJam said:

mjscarousal said:

Aren't there some Anti- MJ boards yall can go too?

A place for people to discuss music: boards.

A place for people to discuss a musician's kids, hair, pets, eye colour, garden, favorite food : high schools or asylums.

Free2BMe said:

MattyJam said:

I really don't get the people who say MJ is not their father just because of biology. I'm as big an MJ fan as you can get, I even have a tattoo of the man on my arm but I've never believed the kids were biologically Michael's, but people adopt children all the time, what's the difference? MJ is their father in all the ways that matter. He raised them, loved them, sacrificed for them and put his career on the backburner to bring them up. THAT is what makes them his children, not whose sperm cells were used.

I agree with most of what you said; however I believe that Michael is the Biological father of his three children. He said that it was HIS sperm cells that produced his children and I believe him. He could easily have said that he adopted these children. Debbie was Michael's Wife and she conceived Prince and Paris with Michael. Prince II aka Blanket mother was another woman. Until someone has PROOF to prove otherwise, I'm going to believe that Michael is the BIOLOGICAL father of His kids. Again, I agree with everything else that you said.

and that belief has just as much worth as a ponzi scheme.....

and THIS is the problem, believing in the lies, and because of the insatiable need to uphold the lies, the greatest entertainer of the modern era self destructed when he was on the path of having the greatest story in music history......because of the false image, because of being led to deny his true being from the onset

Debbie Rowe did not conceive anything with MJ, she was a surrogate who did not have the natural emotional ties that an actual mother would have bearing children

MJ said on Bashir that at first, he didn't know who the identity of the youngest kids mother, then when Bashir said the kids mother is not black, then exactly 30 seconds later MJ said that the youngest kid's mother was.......because he knows he did not father any one of them

I bet when it comes down to it, no fan would put their paycheck on the line w/that belief because deep down, they know they will be skimmed dry

children deserve to know what their real lineage is and these 3 kids grew up not having a clue, Michael Jackson grew up knowing who his parents are

and any fan who upholds the lies is doing zero service to the legacy of MJ fans want the world to acknowledge

the false image is what derailed everything, the greater public at large loved Michael Jackson before the false image

[Edited 10/23/15 5:18am]

MattyJam said:

Pentacle said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

Pentacle said:

A place for people to discuss music: boards.

A place for people to discuss a musician's kids, hair, pets, eye colour, garden, favorite food : high schools or asylums.

What you just said trivializes all the surgeries and skin lightening procedures Jackson put his body through. In fact, had he stopped transforming by 1983, he likely wouldn't have ended up addicted to painkillers and ultimately, propofol. He'd still be alive today, one of the most respected and accomplished artist in music history instead of being known as Wacko Jacko the second half of his life.

I'd agree that the surgery is a 'worthy' topic of discussion, as he has 'confronted' us with that himself, he put that out in the public arena.

Does it have anything to do with the music he created? Not really.

But refusing to speak about the surgery doesn't trivialize it. What does anybody care what you or I think about that?
Had I been a personal friend of MJ and never brought it up, then yes, I would be trivializing it. His friends, if he had any, should have stopped him and/or have had him committed for a while. Then he'd still be alive.

Free2BMe said:

MattyJam said:

I really don't get the people who say MJ is not their father just because of biology. I'm as big an MJ fan as you can get, I even have a tattoo of the man on my arm but I've never believed the kids were biologically Michael's, but people adopt children all the time, what's the difference? MJ is their father in all the ways that matter. He raised them, loved them, sacrificed for them and put his career on the backburner to bring them up. THAT is what makes them his children, not whose sperm cells were used.

I agree with most of what you said; however I believe that Michael is the Biological father of his three children. He said that it was HIS sperm cells that produced his children and I believe him. He could easily have said that he adopted these children. Debbie was Michael's Wife and she conceived Prince and Paris with Michael. Prince II aka Blanket mother was another woman. Until someone has PROOF to prove otherwise, I'm going to believe that Michael is the BIOLOGICAL father of His kids. Again, I agree with everything else that you said.