MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

ALL of your comments on MJ have been negative. I am perfectly aware that you can be a fan and not agree with everything a favorite artist has done but that is not what is going on here. You are purposely going out of your way to bash and discredit MJ (even when the topic has nothing to do with him or personal matters)and that is something a true fan would not do. It doesn't matter whether you are a fan or not a fan but you have pretty much proven you are not a fan so insisting you are a fan (in order to justify your constant MJ bashing) is foolish at this point.

You're wrong. That guy was saying that MJ has been following a template since Thriller. He said songs from the Jackson discography were literally interchangeable and that he never made songs outside of his formula.

I stepped in and brought up my opinion that TDCAU was a groundbreaking innovative song (one of my favorite MJ songs from the 90s) in composition, arrangement, rhythm structure. He said it was just another protest song that many artists have done in a better fashion.

I tried to prove to him that the song is more than a run of the mill protest song. It's about MJ's personal experience of being victimized by leeches like the Chandler family and those in the media.

Just because I don't believe MJ wants to be black and think his kids were artifically created doesn't mean I hate him. That's his choice. It doesn't take away the fact that he was a great entertainer and provided me with some of the best music in the 80s and 90s.

Vitiligo doesn't change your skin color gradually the way MJ's skin turned lighter.

But what does that have to do with this thread? You are supporting my point. You bash MJ when it is not warranted or justified. That has nothing to do with this thread.

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

You are not a fan and I don't believe you own BAD, Dangerous or HIStory

You're wrong. They were day one purchases too. My version of HIStory even contain the Jew-offending lyrics.

Not that you care but you are a joke and I don't believe a word you say on anything...

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

ALL of your comments on MJ have been negative. I am perfectly aware that you can be a fan and not agree with everything a favorite artist has done but that is not what is going on here. You are purposely going out of your way to bash and discredit MJ (even when the topic has nothing to do with him or personal matters)and that is something a true fan would not do. It doesn't matter whether you are a fan or not a fan but you have pretty much proven you are not a fan so insisting you are a fan (in order to justify your constant MJ bashing) is foolish at this point.

You're wrong. That guy was saying that MJ has been following a template since Thriller. He said songs from the Jackson discography were literally interchangeable and that he never made songs outside of his formula.

I stepped in and brought up my opinion that TDCAU was a groundbreaking innovative song (one of my favorite MJ songs from the 90s) in composition, arrangement, rhythm structure. He said it was just another protest song that many artists have done in a better fashion.

I tried to prove to him that the song is more than a run of the mill protest song. It's about MJ's personal experience of being victimized by leeches like the Chandler family and those in the media.

Just because I don't believe MJ wants to be black and think his kids were artifically created doesn't mean I hate him. That's his choice. It doesn't take away the fact that he was a great entertainer and provided me with some of the best music in the 80s and 90s.

Vitiligo doesn't change your skin color gradually the way MJ's skin turned lighter.

No I am right and you defending the TDCAU song means nothing when you pretty much implied MJ was racist and then went on to personally attack the man.

You have done this in almost every single thread since joining this site.

alphastreet said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

A fan since the Thriller Era. I would say that doesn't makes me a long time fan. I wasn't into him during the Triump or Destiny periods. Not even Off The Wall.

In fact, during the 84-85 period I was more a Duran Duran fan. And in the 70s I was into the Bee Gees, Commodores, and Supertramp.

Ironically, Bad was when I started really getting into MJ. It was released when I started college and helped me through those years. But it wasn't like one could tell folks they were a Michael Jackson fan by that point. He already lost the respect of the general public even back in the Fall of 1987, at least in North America. There was a lot of animosity towards him because of his new look, and not only from blacks.

Looking back retrospectively, he made a huge mistake changing a face that was beloved by America. He lost millions in album sales of Bad, Dangerous and HIStory as he turned more and more white.

Duran Duran is brilliant. I was really little in the 80's but didn't feel I could single out just one artist to be my favourite, not even mj, cause there was just too much good music out there. Bad is definitely one of my favourite albums and probably the one I loved the most during my youth in high school and university too though it was at least a good 10-15 years after the release, just having an account of the title track being a very popular hit at the time of release cause of my age. I was confused by his face too and people saying it's mj cause I was already familiar with the Thriller videos a year or two before Bad came out, but was too young to give it deep thought and was into other things to really care and just a tad bit confused...it's always a great thing when any music that resonates with you in a given time of your life can help you look back. Whether mj felt certain things or didn't about his life experiences, blackness, etc. though, it's all done now and in the past, the best thing one can do is just think about whatever else was going on during those times that have nothing to do with him, and cherish the good memories

Duran's music was tight. And when they made that comeback in 1993 with Ordinary World and Come Undone, it was a fantastic period. MJ's Heal The World was getting radio airplay again and Will You Be There was climbing up the charts. Two of my favorite acts, both getting heavy airplay. The interview with Oprah was a great public relations move. For a fleeting moment in time, it wasn't embarassing to be an MJ fan again.

Bad is a brilliant album. Practically every song on it could have been a hit. There were a lot of great acts in the 80s like George Michael, Whitney Houston, Lionel Richie, Billy Ocean, The Police, Cyndi Lauper, Culture Club, Men at Work, Genesis and Phil Collins, Thompson Twins, Thomas Dolby, Howard Jones, the list is never ending.

It's too bad music nowadays is practically void of talent. Taylor Swift would have been a 1-2 album phenomenon back in the 80s. Kanye West is another overrated artist.

alphastreet said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

A fan since the Thriller Era. I would say that doesn't makes me a long time fan. I wasn't into him during the Triump or Destiny periods. Not even Off The Wall.

In fact, during the 84-85 period I was more a Duran Duran fan. And in the 70s I was into the Bee Gees, Commodores, and Supertramp.

Ironically, Bad was when I started really getting into MJ. It was released when I started college and helped me through those years. But it wasn't like one could tell folks they were a Michael Jackson fan by that point. He already lost the respect of the general public even back in the Fall of 1987, at least in North America. There was a lot of animosity towards him because of his new look, and not only from blacks.

Looking back retrospectively, he made a huge mistake changing a face that was beloved by America. He lost millions in album sales of Bad, Dangerous and HIStory as he turned more and more white.

Duran Duran is brilliant. I was really little in the 80's but didn't feel I could single out just one artist to be my favourite, not even mj, cause there was just too much good music out there. Bad is definitely one of my favourite albums and probably the one I loved the most during my youth in high school and university too though it was at least a good 10-15 years after the release, just having an account of the title track being a very popular hit at the time of release cause of my age. I was confused by his face too and people saying it's mj cause I was already familiar with the Thriller videos a year or two before Bad came out, but was too young to give it deep thought and was into other things to really care and just a tad bit confused...it's always a great thing when any music that resonates with you in a given time of your life can help you look back. Whether mj felt certain things or didn't about his life experiences, blackness, etc. though, it's all done now and in the past, the best thing one can do is just think about whatever else was going on during those times that have nothing to do with him, and cherish the good memories

Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with maturely discussing these issues but I don't think its appropiate to discuss these things in every Jackson related topic. The way he is going about it is deragatory and he is not open to other opinions. Its not appropiate to constantly bring these issues up which derail threads and makes them off topic. It comes off trollish and if that is not his intentions than he needs to go about it a different way...

214 said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

You're wrong. That guy was saying that MJ has been following a template since Thriller. He said songs from the Jackson discography were literally interchangeable and that he never made songs outside of his formula.

I stepped in and brought up my opinion that TDCAU was a groundbreaking innovative song (one of my favorite MJ songs from the 90s) in composition, arrangement, rhythm structure. He said it was just another protest song that many artists have done in a better fashion.

I tried to prove to him that the song is more than a run of the mill protest song. It's about MJ's personal experience of being victimized by leeches like the Chandler family and those in the media.

Just because I don't believe MJ wants to be black and think his kids were artifically created doesn't mean I hate him. That's his choice. It doesn't take away the fact that he was a great entertainer and provided me with some of the best music in the 80s and 90s.

Vitiligo doesn't change your skin color gradually the way MJ's skin turned lighter.

You don't know a shit, you are a liar, that's what you are. His skin was not enitrely white, and there are many photos to poreve it, he used prescription pills to cease his pain, not because of his "many" cosmetic surgeries, but because of the Pepsi comercial accident; when he get burned in the hairline, form that moment on, he had to deal with the physical consequences of it. Then unfortunately he got a morphine dependence.

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

MichaelJackson5 said:

214 said:

You don't know a shit, you are a liar, that's what you are. His skin was not enitrely white, and there are many photos to poreve it, he used prescription pills to cease his pain, not because of his "many" cosmetic surgeries, but because of the Pepsi comercial accident; when he get burned in the hairline, form that moment on, he had to deal with the physical consequences of it. Then unfortunately he got a morphine dependence.

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

You just hate the guy or you are racist, or just a jerk.God only knows

MichaelJackson5 said:

alphastreet said:

Duran Duran is brilliant. I was really little in the 80's but didn't feel I could single out just one artist to be my favourite, not even mj, cause there was just too much good music out there. Bad is definitely one of my favourite albums and probably the one I loved the most during my youth in high school and university too though it was at least a good 10-15 years after the release, just having an account of the title track being a very popular hit at the time of release cause of my age. I was confused by his face too and people saying it's mj cause I was already familiar with the Thriller videos a year or two before Bad came out, but was too young to give it deep thought and was into other things to really care and just a tad bit confused...it's always a great thing when any music that resonates with you in a given time of your life can help you look back. Whether mj felt certain things or didn't about his life experiences, blackness, etc. though, it's all done now and in the past, the best thing one can do is just think about whatever else was going on during those times that have nothing to do with him, and cherish the good memories

Duran's music was tight. And when they made that comeback in 1993 with Ordinary World and Come Undone, it was a fantastic period. MJ's Heal The World was getting radio airplay again and Will You Be There was climbing up the charts. Two of my favorite acts, both getting heavy airplay. The interview with Oprah was a great public relations move. For a fleeting moment in time, it wasn't embarassing to be an MJ fan again.

Bad is a brilliant album. Practically every song on it could have been a hit. There were a lot of great acts in the 80s like George Michael, Whitney Houston, Lionel Richie, Billy Ocean, The Police, Cyndi Lauper, Culture Club, Men at Work, Genesis and Phil Collins, Thompson Twins, Thomas Dolby, Howard Jones, the list is never ending.

It's too bad music nowadays is practically void of talent. Taylor Swift would have been a 1-2 album phenomenon back in the 80s. Kanye West is another overrated artist.

1993 was a good year musically for so many acts, I remember will you be there being everywhere and mentions of the oprah interview though I just heard hearsay about what was spoken about. You should play come undone and mj's who is it the most patient mix back to back at night, it's heaven and for extra measure, this one remix of in the air tonight I discovered awhile back with a similar beat.

The 80's are the best though, I play all those artists often too till this day

[Edited 10/5/15 13:40pm]

[Edited 10/5/15 13:41pm]

MichaelJackson5 said:

214 said:

You don't know a shit, you are a liar, that's what you are. His skin was not enitrely white, and there are many photos to poreve it, he used prescription pills to cease his pain, not because of his "many" cosmetic surgeries, but because of the Pepsi comercial accident; when he get burned in the hairline, form that moment on, he had to deal with the physical consequences of it. Then unfortunately he got a morphine dependence.

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

I used to wonder why he didn't at least address it in the moonwalk book instead of being defensive about his appearance in a paragraph the size of a footnote, but maybe it was part of his acceptance of having it, only he knew the answer to why, and it was his experience, not ours.

[Edited 10/5/15 13:43pm]

MichaelJackson5 said:

214 said:

You don't know a shit, you are a liar, that's what you are. His skin was not enitrely white, and there are many photos to poreve it, he used prescription pills to cease his pain, not because of his "many" cosmetic surgeries, but because of the Pepsi comercial accident; when he get burned in the hairline, form that moment on, he had to deal with the physical consequences of it. Then unfortunately he got a morphine dependence.

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

You claim to be a MJ fan but didn't even read his autospy?

You telling on yourself now

JOKE

214 said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

You just hate the guy or you are racist, or just a jerk.God only knows

Pretty much

I can't even take him seriously anymore. He wants us to believe he is a hard core MJ fan but didnt even read his autospy report which states he had vitiligo.

mjscarousal said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

You're wrong. That guy was saying that MJ has been following a template since Thriller. He said songs from the Jackson discography were literally interchangeable and that he never made songs outside of his formula.

I stepped in and brought up my opinion that TDCAU was a groundbreaking innovative song (one of my favorite MJ songs from the 90s) in composition, arrangement, rhythm structure. He said it was just another protest song that many artists have done in a better fashion.

I tried to prove to him that the song is more than a run of the mill protest song. It's about MJ's personal experience of being victimized by leeches like the Chandler family and those in the media.

Just because I don't believe MJ wants to be black and think his kids were artifically created doesn't mean I hate him. That's his choice. It doesn't take away the fact that he was a great entertainer and provided me with some of the best music in the 80s and 90s.

Vitiligo doesn't change your skin color gradually the way MJ's skin turned lighter.

No I am right and you defending the TDCAU song means nothing when you pretty much implied MJ was racist and then went on to personally attack the man.

You have done this in almost every single thread since joining this site.

MJ made those comments about Jews himself and I provided a link to it on YouTube. It's unfortunate that he felt that way but he did. And where have I personally attacked MJ? I've praised Bad, said TDCAU is a great song. I even said Bad and Dangerous had the potential to sell 12-15 million units in America instead of the 8-9 and 6-7 million units they sold respectively. Unless you want to be an MJ-Stan and drink the Kool-Aid, you take the good with the bad.

As far as his surgeries and new look for Bad, there is no way of talking about it in a complimentary fashion. He lost millions of fans when he came out looking androgynous. Nothing good came from getting a new nose and chin. He looked just right around the Victory/Captain Eo period. That's where the plastic surgery should have stopped.

mjscarousal said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

You claim to be a MJ fan but didn't even read his autospy?

You telling on yourself now

JOKE

Anybody can pay a coroner off to claim he had Vitiligo. The original autopsy when he died revealed nothing about Vitiligo. This was a private autopsy conducted by the Jackson family. But if he had the disorder where is the MJ Vitiligo Foundation?

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

No I am right and you defending the TDCAU song means nothing when you pretty much implied MJ was racist and then went on to personally attack the man.

You have done this in almost every single thread since joining this site.

MJ made those comments about Jews himself and I provided a link to it on YouTube. It's unfortunate that he felt that way but he did. And where have I personally attacked MJ? I've praised Bad, said TDCAU is a great song. I even said Bad and Dangerous had the potential to sell 12-15 million units in America instead of the 8-9 and 6-7 million units they sold respectively. Unless you want to be an MJ-Stan and drink the Kool-Aid, you take the good with the bad.

As far as his surgeries and new look for Bad, there is no way of talking about it in a complimentary fashion. He lost millions of fans when he came out looking androgynous. Nothing good came from getting a new nose and chin. He looked just right around the Victory/Captain Eo period. That's where the plastic surgery should have stopped.

>

Truth be told the backlash was starting even then. Even before then, at least in my circles. Eyebrows were raised when people saw the cover of Thriller. The nose.

alphastreet said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

Duran's music was tight. And when they made that comeback in 1993 with Ordinary World and Come Undone, it was a fantastic period. MJ's Heal The World was getting radio airplay again and Will You Be There was climbing up the charts. Two of my favorite acts, both getting heavy airplay. The interview with Oprah was a great public relations move. For a fleeting moment in time, it wasn't embarassing to be an MJ fan again.

Bad is a brilliant album. Practically every song on it could have been a hit. There were a lot of great acts in the 80s like George Michael, Whitney Houston, Lionel Richie, Billy Ocean, The Police, Cyndi Lauper, Culture Club, Men at Work, Genesis and Phil Collins, Thompson Twins, Thomas Dolby, Howard Jones, the list is never ending.

It's too bad music nowadays is practically void of talent. Taylor Swift would have been a 1-2 album phenomenon back in the 80s. Kanye West is another overrated artist.

1993 was a good year musically for so many acts, I remember will you be there being everywhere and mentions of the oprah interview though I just heard hearsay about what was spoken about. You should play come undone and mj's who is it the most patient mix back to back at night, it's heaven and for extra measure, this one remix of in the air tonight I discovered awhile back with a similar beat.

The 80's are the best though, I play all those artists often too till this day

[Edited 10/5/15 13:40pm]

[Edited 10/5/15 13:41pm]

It was certainly a fantastic decade of music. Especially the first half of the decade. I'll try listening to D2 and MJ back to back. Thanks for the idea.

alphastreet said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

You keep believing that. Those photos are photoshopped or his natural melanin trying to return to it's original state. And if he really suffered from Vitiligo, how come he never started a Michael Jackson Vitiligo Foundation? He created the MJ Burn Center after the Pepsi incident. If he was so traumatized by this skin disorder, and considering his philanthropic nature, you'd think he have started something for other victims that started looking like cows, right?

I used to wonder why he didn't at least address it in the moonwalk book instead of being defensive about his appearance in a paragraph the size of a footnote, but maybe it was part of his acceptance of having it, only he knew the answer to why, and it was his experience, not ours.

[Edited 10/5/15 13:43pm]

That's the thing right? His autobiography would have been the perfect time to address his "medical condition" given everyone was talking about his lighter skin.

By the time he mentioned it on Oprah, most already made the conclusion he was bleaching his skin.

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

You claim to be a MJ fan but didn't even read his autospy?

You telling on yourself now

JOKE

Anybody can pay a coroner off to claim he had Vitiligo. The original autopsy when he died revealed nothing about Vitiligo. This was a private autopsy conducted by the Jackson family. But if he had the disorder where is the MJ Vitiligo Foundation?

LOL!!!!!!!

What the hell are you talking about?

You didn't even read the autospy report so why are you making up lies?

MichaelJackson5 said:

alphastreet said:

I used to wonder why he didn't at least address it in the moonwalk book instead of being defensive about his appearance in a paragraph the size of a footnote, but maybe it was part of his acceptance of having it, only he knew the answer to why, and it was his experience, not ours.

[Edited 10/5/15 13:43pm]

That's the thing right? His autobiography would have been the perfect time to address his "medical condition" given everyone was talking about his lighter skin.

By the time he mentioned it on Oprah, most already made the conclusion he was bleaching his skin.

None of that really matters because the autospy report shows that he in fact had vitligo regardless of what you or anyone else thinks. The only reason why you don't think it is true is because you don't want to believe it, that is your problem not anyone elses.

You get it, so he didn´t have vitiligo because if he did then he should make a vitiligo foundation, oh you are totally right how blind i was...

CynicKill said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

MJ made those comments about Jews himself and I provided a link to it on YouTube. It's unfortunate that he felt that way but he did. And where have I personally attacked MJ? I've praised Bad, said TDCAU is a great song. I even said Bad and Dangerous had the potential to sell 12-15 million units in America instead of the 8-9 and 6-7 million units they sold respectively. Unless you want to be an MJ-Stan and drink the Kool-Aid, you take the good with the bad.

As far as his surgeries and new look for Bad, there is no way of talking about it in a complimentary fashion. He lost millions of fans when he came out looking androgynous. Nothing good came from getting a new nose and chin. He looked just right around the Victory/Captain Eo period. That's where the plastic surgery should have stopped.

>

Truth be told the backlash was starting even then. Even before then, at least in my circles. Eyebrows were raised when people saw the cover of Thriller. The nose.

Nobody in my neck of the woods said anything about his nose on the cover of Thriller. It was strange because he had another nosejob in 1983 during the middle of Thriller's run and people didn't notice it. And MJ is right that all celebrities have had something done to their face.

His problem was when he looked entirely like another person just 2.5 years after the end of the Victory Tour. There's nothing wrong with plastic surgery to make one more confident in their looks. But when it's used to make a man look less masculine and look racially ambiguous, that was when the media could no longer remain silent.

He was a strikingly handsome man around 1983 in the Say Say Say video. That should have been the end of his facial transformations.

214 said:

You get it, so he didn´t have vitiligo because if he did then he should make a vitiligo foundation, oh you are totally right how blind i was...

I am convinced that if a MJ sex tape had leaked, people would still make up excuses that he was gay or he didn't like girls. I have come to the conclusion that people will think what they want to think about MJ regardless of facts.

214 said:

You get it, so he didn´t have vitiligo because if he did then he should make a vitiligo foundation, oh you are totally right how blind i was...

Well, that would have been keeping with his generous and caring nature, wouldn't it? Look at how much Michael J. Fox has done for Parkinson's Disease because he was diagnosed with it.

MichaelJackson5 said:

CynicKill said:

>

Truth be told the backlash was starting even then. Even before then, at least in my circles. Eyebrows were raised when people saw the cover of Thriller. The nose.

Nobody in my neck of the woods said anything about his nose on the cover of Thriller. It was strange because he had another nosejob in 1983 during the middle of Thriller's run and people didn't notice it. And MJ is right that all celebrities have had something done to their face.

His problem was when he looked entirely like another person just 2.5 years after the end of the Victory Tour. There's nothing wrong with plastic surgery to make one more confident in their looks. But when it's used to make a man look less masculine and look racially ambiguous, that was when the media could no longer remain silent.

He was a strikingly handsome man around 1983 in the Say Say Say video. That should have been the end of his facial transformations.

>

It wasn't a big backlash but people did notice.

Black people weren't accustomed to plastic surgery back then so it was somewhat of a deal. But when it really became noticeable is when all hell broke loose. Then Latoya started surfacing with what looked like the same doctor's work? People couldn't deal.

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

No I am right and you defending the TDCAU song means nothing when you pretty much implied MJ was racist and then went on to personally attack the man.

You have done this in almost every single thread since joining this site.

MJ made those comments about Jews himself and I provided a link to it on YouTube. It's unfortunate that he felt that way but he did. And where have I personally attacked MJ? I've praised Bad, said TDCAU is a great song. I even said Bad and Dangerous had the potential to sell 12-15 million units in America instead of the 8-9 and 6-7 million units they sold respectively. Unless you want to be an MJ-Stan and drink the Kool-Aid, you take the good with the bad.

As far as his surgeries and new look for Bad, there is no way of talking about it in a complimentary fashion. He lost millions of fans when he came out looking androgynous. Nothing good came from getting a new nose and chin. He looked just right around the Victory/Captain Eo period. That's where the plastic surgery should have stopped.

It is not even about being a MJ stan. Alot of what you are saying are YOUR opinions and are not based on any objective facts. You sat up here and insisted that MJ did not have vitilgo and that his autospy report is phony all because in your mind you believe he bleached his skin. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and makes you look not only ridiculous but beyond ignorant. Because it doesn't matter how much you dislike someone or your preconceived notions, facts are facts...period.

Personally attacking? So you don't think calling someone a racist is not personally attacking someone?

I am still confused with how any of this has to do with this thread.

mjscarousal said:

214 said:

You get it, so he didn´t have vitiligo because if he did then he should make a vitiligo foundation, oh you are totally right how blind i was...

I am convinced that if a MJ sex tape had leaked, people would still make up excuses that he was gay or he didn't like girls. I have come to the conclusion that people will think what they want to think about MJ regardless of facts.

>

And that's why I wish Michael was a stronger person and not so reliant on global success.

You've been a veteran since 1969. You have more money than any artist living or dead ten times over. No one can touch you on stage.

If that isn't enough to boost your confidence then nothing will, and nothing did.

It's the reason why I think he should've went back to his family. Michael's sound went from grown and sexy to childlike and Disney after Thriller. Grown folks looking for grown and sexy were disappointed with BAD. I'm not saying it's a bad album but at the time I really think people were hoping for something else. But I'm no expert.

MichaelJackson5 said:

214 said:

You get it, so he didn´t have vitiligo because if he did then he should make a vitiligo foundation, oh you are totally right how blind i was...

Well, that would have been keeping with his generous and caring nature, wouldn't it? Look at how much Michael J. Fox has done for Parkinson's Disease because he was diagnosed with it.

Not, i mean it sounds logic but that fact does not denie his vitiligo condition

CynicKill said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

Nobody in my neck of the woods said anything about his nose on the cover of Thriller. It was strange because he had another nosejob in 1983 during the middle of Thriller's run and people didn't notice it. And MJ is right that all celebrities have had something done to their face.

His problem was when he looked entirely like another person just 2.5 years after the end of the Victory Tour. There's nothing wrong with plastic surgery to make one more confident in their looks. But when it's used to make a man look less masculine and look racially ambiguous, that was when the media could no longer remain silent.

He was a strikingly handsome man around 1983 in the Say Say Say video. That should have been the end of his facial transformations.

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It wasn't a big backlash but people did notice.

Black people weren't accustomed to plastic surgery back then so it was somewhat of a deal. But when it really became noticeable is when all hell broke loose. Then Latoya started surfacing with what looked like the same doctor's work? People couldn't deal.

That's another thing. LaToya's skin was becoming as light as MJ's at one point yet she didn't claim to suffer from Vitiligo. How does that work?

I'm not surprised by the backlash. When the biggest star the black community has produced releases a new album while no longer looking visibly black, it's no surprise they'd be outraged. Word is that Bad was never a big seller among African Americans who previously were the foundation of his fan base.

CynicKill said:

mjscarousal said:

I am convinced that if a MJ sex tape had leaked, people would still make up excuses that he was gay or he didn't like girls. I have come to the conclusion that people will think what they want to think about MJ regardless of facts.

>

And that's why I wish Michael was a stronger person and not so reliant on global success.

You've been a veteran since 1969. You have more money than any artist living or dead ten times over. No one can touch you on stage.

If that isn't enough to boost your confidence then nothing will, and nothing did.

It's the reason why I think he should've went back to his family. Michael's sound went from grown and sexy to childlike and Disney after Thriller. Grown folks looking for grown and sexy were disappointed with BAD. I'm not saying it's a bad album but at the time I really think people were hoping for something else. But I'm no expert.

I respect your opinion but honestly its not really anyone's right to say what person Michael should or should not have been because we didn't live his life or go through his experiences. It is easy from the outside looking in to insist what Michael should have done because we are obviously not MJ but when you grow up with the unique talent and personality that he had in the spotlight and experience the type of upbringing that he did, his experiences and the way he looked at life is naturally going to be different from the way we do. I know it sounds cliche but its true and its true really for anybody. We live in such a judgemental society where we lable and judge people based on OUR own experiences instead of taking the time to really understand people.

I personally think Michael's best work artistically consist of Dangerous and HIStory. Also the un-remix tracks on Blood on the Dance Floor. I think most of the people who crticize those albums haven't bothered to actually listen to them...

MichaelJackson5 said:

CynicKill said:

>

It wasn't a big backlash but people did notice.

Black people weren't accustomed to plastic surgery back then so it was somewhat of a deal. But when it really became noticeable is when all hell broke loose. Then Latoya started surfacing with what looked like the same doctor's work? People couldn't deal.

That's another thing. LaToya's skin was becoming as light as MJ's at one point yet she didn't claim to suffer from Vitiligo. How does that work?

I'm not surprised by the backlash. When the biggest star the black community has produced releases a new album while no longer looking visibly black, it's no surprise they'd be outraged. Word is that Bad was never a big seller among African Americans who previously were the foundation of his fan base.

OMG, La Toya has always been light skin. However, La Toya said during her abusive and controlling marriage in the 90's, her husband made her wear white powdered foundation so she could look more like Michael. Do you even bother to research before you comment?

Michael had millions of fans all around the world when Thriller became the biggest selling album. You don't get the biggest selling album with African American fans alone...

mjscarousal said:

CynicKill said:

>

And that's why I wish Michael was a stronger person and not so reliant on global success.

You've been a veteran since 1969. You have more money than any artist living or dead ten times over. No one can touch you on stage.

If that isn't enough to boost your confidence then nothing will, and nothing did.

It's the reason why I think he should've went back to his family. Michael's sound went from grown and sexy to childlike and Disney after Thriller. Grown folks looking for grown and sexy were disappointed with BAD. I'm not saying it's a bad album but at the time I really think people were hoping for something else. But I'm no expert.

I respect your opinion but honestly its not really anyone's right to say what person Michael should or should not have been because we didn't live his life or go through his experiences. It is easy from the outside looking in to insist what Michael should have done because we are obviously not MJ but when you grow up with the unique talent and personality that he had in the spotlight and experience the type of upbringing that he did, his experiences and the way he looked at life is naturally going to be different from the way we do. I know it sounds cliche but its true and its true really for anybody. We live in such a judgemental society where we lable and judge people based on OUR own experiences instead of taking the time to really understand people.

I personally think Michael's best work artistically consist of Dangerous and HIStory. Also the un-remix tracks on Blood on the Dance Floor. I think most of the people who crticize those albums haven't bothered to actually listen to them...

>

True.

There's a lot of assumtions in that post.