Yeah, I'm sure everyone you listen to made a stop in your weird location.

Yeah. Sometimes they do and if not I go to where the gigs are.

One would literally have to see a gig every night of the year to match the number of artists they listen to daily, and even then it would fall short. Nice excuse though.

"I don't pay for music but I go to gigs"

I guess I'm one of the few who do pay for music for those I choose to go see.

Well, if you want to see an artist live most of the time you have to pay for it unless you have some contacts to get free tickets.

It's much easier to find a way to get recorded music for free.

I love live music, and if there was a way I could see live shows for free trust me I would do that!

Cinny said:

One would literally have to see a gig every night of the year to match the number of artists they listen to daily, and even then it would fall short. Nice excuse though.

Nah, not really. Obviously I also own cds, but there are several bands of whom I didn't own cds, but went to their concerts instead. Did buy live DVDs afterwards though.

PatrickS77 said:

Obviously I also own cds

This wasn't directed at you then

I was at a panel at a music conference a couple years ago and they had some old school record guys and radio guys talking about "the future of music distribution". The most interesting part was when they asked some of the young peeople in the audiejce to talk about whether they pay for music. One said, no not really, but he supports the artists by sharing the music he likes with all his friends. The other used the free version of Spotify, which is ad-supported, so she feels like she has paid for it.

One of the panelists was Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys and he asked the first kid, so, if you went to work at your job, and your boss said, you know what instead of paying you a salary, I'm just gonna tell everyone in the building "Joe's a real great guy!", how would that work for you?

But I think that's an old fashioned way of thinking. We old people got used to paying for music when we were young, not because we were so moral, but because it was scarce, and we wanted it. So that seems obvious and natural to us. But not to young people. Music is never going to be scarce again.

The hope is to find a way for independent artists to succeed today without big, up front investments. Some people feel like things are already as good for artists as they were in the old days, maybe better.

It seems to me that music is moving from a consumer model to a patron model. The listener has to support the artists musical releases. With these new artists, they perform often in small venues, and can't afford to live off a share of the gate or bar.

It's up to us to find and buy the music we really love to make sure it keeps coming.

Doesn't Live Nation exist to take from the mega artists' touring revenue as well?

Who is the OP quoting?

You really just have to find your audience and sell to them, get a loyal following somehow or if you are an artist that has been around and you write and own your shit, your set for life if you can still sell a few albums and sell some tickets. Most new artists cant sell shows and make shit on their music good or not so many today arent getting into music they are getting into business of becoming a "Brand".

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Who is the OP quoting?

Could be a paraphrase of what I've recently written here.

I don't see what the problem is when the artists themselves don't have a problem with it. If they're the ones putting their own songs on streaming services, of course it's perfectly okay to listen to those songs for free and not pay for them.

Frankly speaking, most underground artists I know personally are happy if they can get most of their stocks of physical releases out of their own houses and then have some additional online listeners (and even downloaders). People just want to be able to recoup their production costs and ensure people will actually hear the music (so that they didn't do it for nothing). The money's in the live gigs and the recorded stuff is what attracts a larger number of people to the gigs.

It's not like people used to pay for all the music they listened to in the past decades either. They were taping a lot of stuff, using the music collections in libraries and so on. All perfectly legal.

I'm just saying, it sounds right, but realistically there is a gap there.

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Who is the OP quoting?

Use my name like you've been seeing it for a decade

I'm stuck in a quandry...

...I am ethically against downloading free music. Yes...back in the day I used to sit with a blank cassette tape in my stereo, listening to the radio station, and would hit "record" when a great tune came on. BUT, if I wanted a GOOD copy of that record, then I'd go buy the single.

When filesharing hit its stride, I got alot of music off of Bearshare but I also shared alot that I had...it was my "justification" since it was sharing...then when they killed Napster and started hitting people with fines, I stopped.

Now I buy whatever I want, either iTunes or Amazon. BUT I am not going out and buying music as if I was in my 20's either. I buy a song every now and then. If I listen to a nice song on the radio that I really, really must have, I buy it. If an artist releases an album that I want, I wait to get it on vinyl preferably (via Amazon with the free MP3 file).

So, for example...the last Sheila E album...I want it. But I want it on vinyl but since I kept forgetting to order it, I still don't have it! But I respect her too much to download it for free. When I have the $40 to blow on an album (and I remember) I will order the damn thing.

Otherwise I just won't get the music & just listen to it on Spotify.

...I wonder if Sheila's album will be for sale at her show in 2 weeks...?

Cinny said:

Doesn't Live Nation exist to take from the mega artists' touring revenue as well?

They would say they exist to make those mega millions for artists possible. They've made some deals similar to record label deals.

My own impression though is that, yeah, they have probably learned how to count money like the record people.

But I don't know what the alternative is. AEG? They're kind of the same thing as Live Nation but not quite so big. Local promoters? Those don't exist anymore on a big scale.

Re Sheila E - at the show I saw a couple months ago, not only did they have someone going table to table selling merch, Sheila came around during one song and signed everybody's stuff without missing a note. So yes, bring some cash!

bobzilla77 said:

Re Sheila E - at the show I saw a couple months ago, not only did they have someone going table to table selling merch, Sheila came around during one song and signed everybody's stuff without missing a note. So yes, bring some cash!

She didn't do that at the last show that I went to (at BBK's) but maybe since that album is recent she may!

^^ Ther show I saw was in a small venue with a seated audience at tables, she may not do that if it is a big crowd in front of the stage, but they were very interested in having you buy some merch! CD, vinyl, and her book. Wish I'd had cash on me, the set was mostly songs from that new album & it was very good.

Cinny said:

One would literally have to see a gig every night of the year to match the number of artists they listen to daily, and even then it would fall short. Nice excuse though.

As a person who very much still values and thus pays for music, I can admit that everything I may listen to on a daily basis, I don't necessarily feel inclined to buy .


Clarification: During the workday, I'll often play mixes online for some variety.

[Edited 4/14/15 16:46pm]

thekidsgirl said:

Cinny said:

One would literally have to see a gig every night of the year to match the number of artists they listen to daily, and even then it would fall short. Nice excuse though.

As a person who very much still values and thus pays for music, I can admit that everything I may listen to on a daily basis, I don't necessarily feel inclined to buy .


Clarification: During the workday, I'll often play mixes online for some variety.

I just wanted to make the point to the people who accept this excuse "but I pay for gigs" in day-to-day discussion. I know a lot of orgers still spend a tonne of money.

Cinny said:

I don't pay for music if it ain't good and I barely go to gigs since it's the same old stuff from 1998-2008 but 5 times more expensive...

JoeTyler said:

I don't pay for music if it ain't good

Well, if it "ain't good" then why you downloading it and listening to it?

Cinny said:

JoeTyler said:

I don't pay for music if it ain't good

Well, if it "ain't good" then why you downloading it and listening to it?

spotify

stfu

My siblings and I and countless others still have mix-tapes floating around the Chicago-Metro area.

... taping, burning a cd, downloading, now streaming — didn't just started yesterday. Folks have acquired music for free, depending on the technology at hand.

The thing about music... streaming the net most people don't see this any differently than listening to the radio. Just as most folks didn't see sharing their music via the net as illegal or wrong.

p.s. Let me say this file sharing is still going on but what is coming up on the horizon...

streaming files without having to use the net... which isn't traceable. this technology is still in its infancy.

=============================

[Edited 4/19/15 1:22am]

JoeTyler said:

Cinny said:

Well, if it "ain't good" then why you downloading it and listening to it?

spotify

stfu

That don't answer my question! Do you like the music on Spotify? Are you listening to playlists or what? You listen to the one with ads?

TD3 said:

My siblings and I and countless others still have mix-tapes floating around the Chicago-Metro area.

... taping, burning a cd, downloading, now streaming — didn't just started yesterday. Folks have acquired music for free, depending on the technology at hand.

The thing about music... streaming the net most people don't see this any differently than listening to the radio. Just as most folks didn't see sharing their music via the net as illegal or wrong.

p.s. Let me say this file sharing is still going on but what is coming up on the horizon...

streaming files without having to use the net... which isn't traceable. this technology is still in its infancy.

=============================

No doubt, we see that 8tracks link, holla!