Victory is a very good album, yeah I said it

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Reply #30 posted 03/18/15 2:36pm

MickyDolenz

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thetimefan said:

With Jermaine back on board they should have pulled all the stops out

He wasn't originally involved with the album and came in halfway during the sessions. That's why there's publicity photos that were taken before Jermaine signed up with the Triumph lineup including a Little Rascals style album cover. Jermaine's part on Torture was originally sung by Jackie. It's interesting that they sang Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming on the tour and not any songs from Victory. Mick Jagger sang State Of Shock with Tina Turner at Live Aid.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton

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Reply #31 posted 03/18/15 2:36pm

MickyDolenz

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Reply #32 posted 03/18/15 2:43pm

Scorp

thetimefan said:

Coming off the back of 'Destiny' & 'Triumph' which are definitely strong albums with really good songs, Victory actually kinda falls flat in comparison. IMO, 'One More Chance' is the standout track and IIRC doesn't have any involvement from Michael. With Jermaine back on board they should have pulled all the stops out, but what I wonder when you analyse the creative direction, is do they go with the current 80's style production of the time (more R&B/soul orientated like the Gap Band, One Way, Midnight Star etc), more pop-soul like Kool & The Gang were doing, or do they go retro and go back to a more traditional Motown-esque sound to hark back to their J5 days?. MJ was probably like I wanna work on the follow up to Thriller and was keeping his best songs for that, whilst the other brothers wanted to try & forge a career for themselves independently of Mike (who they no doubt knew wanted to go solo and break away from the Jacksons), so I think it's like they were going in two different directions. I think if the story in the J Randy Taraborrelli book is true, Michael was cajoled into working with his bro's again by Katherine, so it could have been a case of him being along for the ride, but didn't want to be too hands on with the project. Could be wrong though. I'd like to have heard a continuation of 'Triumph' and them trying to go forward with their music and perhaps try and incorporate some new emerging sounds like hip hop in their music. I'm not saying they should have started rapping but maybe did like a cool hip hop style beat and maybe got like Run-DMC on a song to show they were moving with the times and be like when MJ did the Rock/Pop-Soul crossover with Beat It.

I always felt the Victory Tour never should have taken place, this was a situation MJ was right in having reservations with. The show was mainly a rehashing of themes the brothers did during the Triumph Tour but lacking the ingenuity. It was a good show but wasnt viewed as his best. I think it would have been better if a reunion tour had taken place after MJ did his first solo tour because the tour that took place in 1984 should have been done solo as a celebration for what he achieved with Thriller

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Reply #33 posted 03/18/15 2:51pm

2freaky4church
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Torture is a real masterpiece. Up there with Billie Jean.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!

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Reply #34 posted 03/18/15 5:42pm

SoulAlive	I remember hearing the song "Somebody's Watching Me" in early 1984 and mistakenly thinking it was the Jackson's new single it would have been a perfect song for Victory!
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Reply #35 posted 03/19/15 12:19pm

whatsgoingon

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SoulAlive said:

thetimefan said:

I think if the story in the J Randy Taraborrelli book is true, Michael was cajoled into working with his bro's again by Katherine, so it could have been a case of him being along for the ride, but didn't want to be too hands on with the project.

I believe that story.Katherine talked Michael into doing that album and tour with his brothers.In my opinion,'Destiny' should have been Michael's final album with his brothers.A year later he released OTW and that album turned him into a solo superstar.He had proven that he could do it on his own,with amazing results.

Well, I am glad he stayed with his brothers and did Triumph, which I think is a great album. In fact I think some of the Jacksons albums were better than Michael's solo stuff.

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Reply #36 posted 03/19/15 10:19pm

SoulAlive

whatsgoingon said:
SoulAlive said:

I believe that story.Katherine talked Michael into doing that album and tour with his brothers.In my opinion,'Destiny' should have been Michael's final album with his brothers.A year later he released OTW and that album turned him into a solo superstar.He had proven that he could do it on his own,with amazing results.

Well, I am glad he stayed with his brothers and did Triumph, which I think is a great album. In fact I think some of the Jacksons albums were better than Michael's solo stuff.

hmmm to me,the only Jacksons album that comes close to OTW and Thriller is Destiny.

I'm curious to know...what Jacksons album would you say is better than OTW?

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Reply #37 posted 03/20/15 8:27am

whatsgoingon

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SoulAlive said:

whatsgoingon said:

SoulAlive said:

I believe that story.Katherine talked Michael into doing that album and tour with his brothers.In my opinion,'Destiny' should have been Michael's final album with his brothers.A year later he released OTW and that album turned him into a solo superstar.He had proven that he could do it on his own,with amazing results.

Well, I am glad he stayed with his brothers and did Triumph, which I think is a great album. In fact I think some of the Jacksons albums were better than Michael's solo stuff.

hmmm to me,the only Jacksons album that comes close to OTW and Thriller is Destiny.

I'm curious to know...what Jacksons album would you say is better than OTW?

I meant to say better than some of his solo stuff.
I am not a fan of Bad, Dangerous or History. So I will take Triumph, Destiny and even Going Places over all those albums.

Michael's most creative period for me, was between 78, the Destiny album and 82, Thriller. Within these 4 years he created 4 classic albums, both as a solo artist and as part of the Jacksons.

After he left his brothers, completely, you get 4 albums in 20 years and the quality wasn't even that great. They may have sold more than the likes of Destiny and Triumph but so did the likes of Britney albums, so that doesn't mean much to me. So I do believe being with his brothers had something to do with his creativity.

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Reply #38 posted 03/20/15 8:38am

MotownSubdivis
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SoulAlive said:

whatsgoingon said:

SoulAlive said:

I believe that story.Katherine talked Michael into doing that album and tour with his brothers.In my opinion,'Destiny' should have been Michael's final album with his brothers.A year later he released OTW and that album turned him into a solo superstar.He had proven that he could do it on his own,with amazing results.

Well, I am glad he stayed with his brothers and did Triumph, which I think is a great album. In fact I think some of the Jacksons albums were better than Michael's solo stuff.

hmmm to me,the only Jacksons album that comes close to OTW and Thriller is Destiny.

I'm curious to know...what Jacksons album would you say is better than OTW?

Triumph > Destiny

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Reply #39 posted 03/20/15 12:23pm

SoulAlive	MotownSubdivision said: Triumph > Destiny Destiny kills Triumph.It's a much stronger,better album.
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Reply #40 posted 03/20/15 1:19pm

mjscarousal	MotownSubdivision said: SoulAlive said: to me,the only Jacksons album that comes close to OTW and Thriller is Destiny. I'm curious to know...what Jacksons album would you say is better than OTW? Triumph > Destiny Yep, agree with this. Also, I LOVE State of Shock!!!! One More Chance is great as well. However, this is not an album I listen to a lot overall.
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Reply #41 posted 03/20/15 2:44pm

MotownSubdivis ion	SoulAlive said: MotownSubdivision said: Triumph > Destiny Destiny kills Triumph.It's a much stronger,better album. Nah. Too many slow songs and the flow isn't as smooth nor is the vibe as atmospheric as Triumph's. I also prefer the more polished production of Triumph though the somewhat grittier and more down to earth, organic production of Destiny is by no means bad.
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Reply #42 posted 03/20/15 2:54pm

MotownSubdivis
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mjscarousal said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SoulAlive said:

to me,the only Jacksons album that comes close to OTW and Thriller is Destiny.

I'm curious to know...what Jacksons album would you say is better than OTW?

Triumph > Destiny

Yep, agree with this. nod Also, I LOVE State of Shock!!!! One More Chance is great as well. However, this is not an album I listen to a lot overall.

Thanks lady! I just purchased the album about a week ago (a week ago!) so I can't say I've bumped it many times, collectively at least. Been bumping many of the songs individually countless times over the past 7 days. Couldn't put down "Wait", "The Hurt", "We Can Change the World", "One More Chance", and (to a lesser extent) "Body" in particular.

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Reply #43 posted 03/20/15 3:29pm

Identity	MotownSubdivision said: Triumph > Destiny Triumph is probably their most mature album and easily their best work.
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Reply #44 posted 03/20/15 3:49pm

SoulAlive	Identity said: MotownSubdivision said: Triumph > Destiny Triumph is probably their most mature album and easily their best work. No it's not! I always thought that "Heartbreak Hotel" is kinda silly."Lovely One" is OK,I guess.There's one song that rips off MJ's own "Get On The Floor".I forgot the name of it.Overall,it's a decent album but not nearly as strong as 'Destiny'.
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Reply #45 posted 03/20/15 4:38pm

mjscarousal	You talking about "Everybody"? That song is FIRE I love that song. I always find myself playing Triumph and I think "This Place Hotel" is one of the best songs Michael wrote in his career (very high point for him as a songwriter imo). The entire album is FIRE. Everybody has their preferences though. Some prefer Destiny, some prefer Triumph. I love both but Triumph wins!
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Reply #46 posted 03/20/15 5:13pm

SoulAlive	So nobody's on my side? I feel so alone
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Reply #47 posted 03/20/15 6:07pm

MotownSubdivis ion	SoulAlive said: So nobody's on my side? I feel so alone We still love ya bro but we just love Triumph more. Destiny definitely has the cover art game on lock though. Even better than Victory's. [Edited 3/20/15 18:08pm]
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Reply #48 posted 03/20/15 6:16pm

Scorp	I loved the peacock symbols on the back of their albums. I loved that peacock
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Reply #49 posted 03/20/15 8:33pm

SoulAlive	MotownSubdivision said: SoulAlive said: So nobody's on my side? I feel so alone We still love ya bro but we just love Triumph more. Destiny definitely has the cover art game on lock though. Even better than Victory's. [b]
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Reply #50 posted 03/21/15 4:15pm

ChickenMcNugge
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Yeah, I prefer Triumph to Destiny as well, lol. They're both fantastic albums, but Destiny to me feels like it was built around "Shake Your Body", with too many of the other tracks being slow numbers... Triumph feels more like an entire album, a great way for the brothers to respond to OTW.

Back on the subject of Victory, I recently watched one of the concerts (Toronto?) on YouTube, and towards the end, Michael actually briefly sings a few lines from "State of Shock", lol! Wonder if he was goading his brothers a bit...

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Reply #51 posted 04/19/15 1:23pm

MotownSubdivis
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ChickenMcNuggets said:

Wouldn't surprise me. Besides that, the closest the came to performing a song off the album was when Jermaine and Michael would sing "Tell Me I'm not Dreaming" from Jermaine's Arista debut album.

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Reply #52 posted 04/20/15 7:49am

RJOrion	be clear...this album was, and still is, trash... all it did was confirm that Michael, Jermaine & Janet should be the only Jackson siblings ever allowed near a recording studio [Edited 4/20/15 7:51am]
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Reply #53 posted 04/20/15 7:56am

RJOrion	Triumph >>>>>> Destiny "Lovely One"??? "Can You Feel It"??? those 2 songs alone, are better than anything on Destinyy, or Destiny in its entirety [Edited 4/20/15 10:58am]
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Reply #54 posted 04/20/15 9:44am

MotownSubdivis ion	RJOrion said: Triumph >>>>>> Victory "Lovely One"??? "Can You Feel It"??? those 2 songs alone, are better than anything on Victory, or Victory in its entirety Who said Victory was better than Triumph? All that's being said is that the former is a good album.
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Reply #55 posted 04/20/15 9:45am

MotownSubdivis ion	RJOrion said: be clear...this album was, and still is, trash... all it did was confirm that Michael, Jermaine & Janet should be the only Jackson siblings ever allowed near a recording studio [Edited 4/20/15 7:51am] Randy, Jackie, and Tito would like a word with you.
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Reply #56 posted 04/20/15 10:55am

RJOrion	MotownSubdivision said: RJOrion said: Triumph >>>>>> Victory "Lovely One"??? "Can You Feel It"??? those 2 songs alone, are better than anything on Victory, or Victory in its entirety Who said Victory was better than Triumph? All that's being said is that the former is a good album. my bad...i meant destiny not victory
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Reply #57 posted 04/20/15 1:15pm

MotownSubdivis ion	RJOrion said: MotownSubdivision said: Who said Victory was better than Triumph? All that's being said is that the former is a good album. my bad...i meant destiny not victory Savvy.
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Reply #58 posted 04/20/15 7:24pm

MickyDolenz

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Victory is one of the few albums I have different versions of: cassette, record, picture disc, & CD.

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Reply #59 posted 04/21/15 4:25pm

ChickenMcNugge
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RJOrion said:

be clear...this album was, and still is, trash...

all it did was confirm that Michael, Jermaine & Janet should be the only Jackson siblings ever allowed near a recording studio
[Edited 4/20/15 7:51am]

Nah... the others are generally talented too, but more as session musicians. Randy and Jackie played big parts in some of the best things about Destiny, Triumph and Victory. Just look at the production/songwriting credits.

I'm due to see Tito do a rare solo show in London in July! Should be fun.

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