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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Victory is a very good album, yeah I said it
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Thread started 03/13/15 10:55am

MotownSubdivis
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Victory is a very good album, yeah I said it



Just gave the album my first true listen outside of the individual songs and I got to say, on its own merits, the album is pretty good. Are some songs noticeably dated? Yes but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't hold up well though a few may not hold up as well as others ("Torture", "Wait", "The Hurt"). I've said before that the album is a big disappointment when you consider all that was going on at the time of its creation and release and should have been near flawless as well as timeless but if you can overlook the aligning of the stars, the sheer spectacle of MJ/ the overshadowing of the rest of the brothers, and the tour, Victory is actually quite enjoyable. It feels more like a somewhat disjointed compilation album than an actual team effort like previous releases but looking at the glass as half full, it gave everybody a chance to shine and their contributions individually actually outdid that of the reluctant and restless MJ. If MJ was actually willing to give it his all one last time, then the album would have been that much better and Jackie, Tito, Marlon, and Randy probably would've been viewed as more than just MJ's siblings and had more subsequent success; especially as far as the tour is concerned.

Anyway, as for the album itself, I grade each individual song as follows:
Torture: ***1/2
Wait: ****
One More Chance: ****1/2
Be Not Always: **
State of Shock: ***
We Can Change the World: ****
The Hurt: ****
Body: ***1/4

Overall, a good album when viewed independently from the circumstances surrounding it but merely a decent/ passable release if one includes all the hoopla.

P.S.
Album Cover: ***** (Best one next to Destiny's)
[Edited 3/13/15 10:57am]
[Edited 3/15/15 12:38pm]
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Reply #1 posted 03/13/15 1:47pm

ChickenMcNugge
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It's arguably the most "interesting" Jacksons album. I actually liked that the other brothers got a chance to shine on this one, rather than everything being so Michael-dominated. After all, isn't that what his solo albums were for?

I wouldn't have minded Mike 'pulling a Victory' about once a decade or so... by which I mean, rejoining the brothers for an album but only contributing three or four songs. Just an idea... lol

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Reply #2 posted 03/13/15 3:13pm

MotownSubdivis
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Actually, that's quite a spiffy idea!

That would have also kept the bros in the mainstream eye a bit longer and allowed them to maintain relevance. So long as the songs aren't as derivative and cookie cutter as the ones on Victory.
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Reply #3 posted 03/14/15 4:48am

paisleypark4

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Yeah i do listen to 4 of the songs quite often...Body, The Hurt and One More Chance are played out on my ipod
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Reply #4 posted 03/14/15 5:11am

Scorp

I always loved the album cover......that was a great album cover

I never felt the Victory Tour should have taken place though, not during the year it did take place

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Reply #5 posted 03/14/15 8:26am

MotownSubdivis
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For all the things wrong with the tour, I wouldn't say it taking place in '84, the greatest year in pop/ mainstream music was a bad thing.
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Reply #6 posted 03/14/15 1:41pm

Identity

Too much filler. Victory contains four marginally likable songs, one of which ("Be Not Always") has classic potential.

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Reply #7 posted 03/14/15 3:24pm

MotownSubdivis
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Identity said:

Too much filler. Victory contains four marginally likable songs, one of which ("Be Not Always") has classic potential.

Interesting for you to say that since "Be Not Always" feels like a filler track more than any other song on the album.

"We Can Change the World" probably follows it but it's a very good and criminally underrated song regardless. I dare say it holds up better than every other track.

For a Jacksons album it is disappointing, it is a letdown, and I suppose you can say that it's laden with filler in comparison to their previous efforts but on its own, Victory is actually a concise album.
[Edited 3/14/15 19:49pm]
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Reply #8 posted 03/14/15 4:09pm

babybugz

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I like it too don't worry lol

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Reply #9 posted 03/14/15 4:30pm

lowkey

its an ok album but it seems like it was thrown together to capitolize off the thriller phenomenon just like the tour.

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Reply #10 posted 03/14/15 5:05pm

MotownSubdivis
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lowkey said:

its an ok album but it seems like it was thrown together to capitolize off the thriller phenomenon just like the tour.

No question about it. Everything about Victory was purpose-built to piggyback MJ's stratospheric popularity but even so, could've been executed much better so it at least it wouldn't have been so obvious.
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Reply #11 posted 03/14/15 5:06pm

MotownSubdivis
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babybugz said:

I like it too don't worry lol

*Daps*
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Reply #12 posted 03/14/15 7:27pm

Derek1984

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Buffalo Bill > Be Not Always

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Reply #13 posted 03/15/15 6:18am

phunkdaddy

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I like the album too. Liked all the tracks except Be Not Always. Torture was by far my favorite off the album. Wait, One More Chance, and State Of Shock,and Body were album favorites too.
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Reply #14 posted 03/15/15 8:46am

JabarR74

Only 2 videos were made for that albums and none of them featured Jermaine and Michael

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Reply #15 posted 03/15/15 9:02am

MotownSubdivis
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JabarR74 said:

Only 2 videos were made for that albums and none of them featured Jermaine and Michael




Can't blame them, honestly. Definitely can't get mad at Mike for not appearing on "Body". I think their absence on "Torture" helped the video though. Added an aura.
[Edited 4/19/15 13:14pm]
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Reply #16 posted 03/15/15 9:39am

Scorp

if a song like Torture was released for the first time in 2015, it would blow every other record out of the water and what's funny, in 1984, as good as it was, it did not reach #1

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Reply #17 posted 03/15/15 11:27am

scorp84

"One More Chance" is easily the best song the album has to offer, imo.

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Reply #18 posted 03/15/15 12:13pm

SoulAlive

It's a very mediocre album.It's obvious that Michael didn't wanna participate,but he felt obligated.Notice that,on one of his contributions ("State Of Shock"),he sings with Mick Jaggger instead of one of his own brothers.That tells you how he really felt about his brothers lol

The "Body" video is hilarious biggrin alot of unintentional humor in that clip

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Reply #19 posted 03/15/15 12:37pm

MotownSubdivis
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My main issue with the album is that it sounded no different from most pop music at the time. I love 80's music and like that blatant 80's sound but Victory's production blended in with the mass majority of mainstream music at the time and lacked that Jacksons flavor that their other albums definitely possessed.

Still, it isn't nearly as timeless or as good a project as The Jacksons are known for but it's still a solid effort for what it is. I enjoy the album even with the knowledge that it should have been much better than what we ended up getting. It's better still when you realize there's only one filler/ skippable track. The album is at least a 3/5.
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Reply #20 posted 03/15/15 5:36pm

ChickenMcNugge
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SoulAlive said:

It's a very mediocre album.It's obvious that Michael didn't wanna participate,but he felt obligated.Notice that,on one of his contributions ("State Of Shock"),he sings with Mick Jaggger instead of one of his own brothers.That tells you how he really felt about his brothers lol



The "Body" video is hilarious biggrin alot of unintentional humor in that clip






I wonder whether Michael was even in the room with his brothers for his parts on Torture and Wait. He and Jermaine at least shared a studio when they were recording Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming (so says Jerm's book - yeah, I know)...
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Reply #21 posted 03/17/15 6:29pm

SoulAlive

I think "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" is better than anything on Victory.Epic should have fought hard to have that song included on Victory.
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Reply #22 posted 03/17/15 6:48pm

Scorp

SoulAlive said:

I think "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" is better than anything on Victory.Epic should have fought hard to have that song included on Victory.




Amen, that was a brilliant record
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Reply #23 posted 03/18/15 1:14am

SoulAlive

Scorp said:

SoulAlive said:
I think "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" is better than anything on Victory.Epic should have fought hard to have that song included on Victory.
Amen, that was a brilliant record

nod I think it's even better than "State Of Shock"

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Reply #24 posted 03/18/15 4:40am

LiLi1992

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Scorp said:

I always loved the album cover......that was a great album cover

the only good thing about this album.

although the cover is also a bit strange.

5 (well, 4, except for Tito) Strong, muscular, sexy, scantily clad guys ...and Michael in the background.

but cover catchy and attracts attention.

[Edited 3/18/15 4:46am]

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Reply #25 posted 03/18/15 4:59am

Scorp

SoulAlive said:

Scorp said:

SoulAlive said: Amen, that was a brilliant record

nod I think it's even better than "State Of Shock"

same here biggrin

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Reply #26 posted 03/18/15 5:16am

MotownSubdivis
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SoulAlive said:

I think "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" is better than anything on Victory.Epic should have fought hard to have that song included on Victory.

I'll give you this. Song is fire.

And yes, it's much better than "State of Shock".

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Reply #27 posted 03/18/15 1:57pm

SoulAlive

MotownSubdivision said:

SoulAlive said:

I think "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" is better than anything on Victory.Epic should have fought hard to have that song included on Victory.

I'll give you this. Song is fire.

And yes, it's much better than "State of Shock".

nod

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Reply #28 posted 03/18/15 2:19pm

thetimefan

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Coming off the back of 'Destiny' & 'Triumph' which are definitely strong albums with really good songs, Victory actually kinda falls flat in comparison. IMO, 'One More Chance' is the standout track and IIRC doesn't have any involvement from Michael. With Jermaine back on board they should have pulled all the stops out, but what I wonder when you analyse the creative direction, is do they go with the current 80's style production of the time (more R&B/soul orientated like the Gap Band, One Way, Midnight Star etc), more pop-soul like Kool & The Gang were doing, or do they go retro and go back to a more traditional Motown-esque sound to hark back to their J5 days?. MJ was probably like I wanna work on the follow up to Thriller and was keeping his best songs for that, whilst the other brothers wanted to try & forge a career for themselves independently of Mike (who they no doubt knew wanted to go solo and break away from the Jacksons), so I think it's like they were going in two different directions. I think if the story in the J Randy Taraborrelli book is true, Michael was cajoled into working with his bro's again by Katherine, so it could have been a case of him being along for the ride, but didn't want to be too hands on with the project. Could be wrong though. I'd like to have heard a continuation of 'Triumph' and them trying to go forward with their music and perhaps try and incorporate some new emerging sounds like hip hop in their music. I'm not saying they should have started rapping but maybe did like a cool hip hop style beat and maybe got like Run-DMC on a song to show they were moving with the times and be like when MJ did the Rock/Pop-Soul crossover with Beat It.

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Reply #29 posted 03/18/15 2:29pm

SoulAlive

thetimefan said:

I think if the story in the J Randy Taraborrelli book is true, Michael was cajoled into working with his bro's again by Katherine, so it could have been a case of him being along for the ride, but didn't want to be too hands on with the project.

I believe that story.Katherine talked Michael into doing that album and tour with his brothers.In my opinion,'Destiny' should have been Michael's final album with his brothers.A year later he released OTW and that album turned him into a solo superstar.He had proven that he could do it on his own,with amazing results.

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