I have to say i love the guitar tones. Nu Metal started out with such good promise. When it was just ''funk metal'' Living colour, faith no more, fishbone, Rage Against The Machine, Primus, bootsauce, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Praxis, White Zombie, Early Powerman 5000 etc.

I think bands like Korn, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Coal Chamber, Slipknot etc. Had some good production on their albums. And i honestly loved a lot of the guitar tones. It was sludgy, nasty, and dark. And i used right could have been some dark music. The issue with nu metal is the lyrics.

Fred Durst is one of the worst lyricists (and rappers) ever. Wes Borland is a rather exciting guitarist. Who didn't get to show too much chops in LB. But he did do some good work in the band. Even the bass player had some good lines from time to time. But the lyrics and choruses were horrible.

Korn's first three albums had some good songs. Their first album is their best bar none. They still had a darkness and edge to them. And fieldy is honestly a really good bass player. But his ''style'' is way too samey from 1999 to now. Korn had a really murky sound and production. That would have done better without the angsty lyrics. Which just make it teenage angst bullshit.

Linkin Park and Coal Chamber had great production too. Mike Shinoda is a well rounded producer. But his lyrics are... and the guitar is so basic and boring. But the hip-hop productions on the records are damn good. If only they used more of that. And less of that shitty guitar.

So... yeah. I know Nu metal is seen as shit. But i think a big problem is the lyrics. And the front men of the band in general. If they had better writers and front men. Nu Metal honestly could have been amazing.

Before I go on with my retort to this topic, I have to say something: PLEASE DO NOT lump Faith No More in with the "funk metal" catagory. That band (my fav band ever) was and is capable of doing any kind of music and did, and it all sounded so very sincere. FNM, much like Prince, is a music nerd's kind of music (very much like how Prince is a musician's musician) that just could not settle on one kind of style, but ALWAYS sounded like them performing.

Anyway, I was in my early teens when nu-metal really took off into the mainstream (around 1998-99) and of course I soaked that shit up. It sounded all so fresh and intense. Korn was the center of my universe at that time. The first two Korn records are bonafide classics that are quite frankly going to stand the test of time and not sound dated. When they released "Follow the Leader" was when an expiration date was apparent. Sounded great at the time, but now some of the record is rather cringe-worthy in some spots. I was happy and relieved when they returned back to the strictly heaviness with "Issues". Issues was their last good/great record and they've been one of the most inconsistent bands ever since. Limp Bizkit took Korn's formula to the extreme and it fizzled out as such. LB's first album is another classic and "Significant Other" still has it's amazing moments but "Chocolate Starfish.." is just hilarious in it's absurdity. And I agree, Durst isnt very capable of composing very good lyrics and his verse compared to Method Man's on "N 2gether Now" clearly shows that. Linkin Park, while I never was a fan and still am not, saw the writing on the wall and changed up their sound as such. And while nu-metal as a genre of music was rather clever in it's composing aspect, there was absolutely no challenge in their performances. It was mostly a 4-on-the-floor band with a singer catering to a here now/gone tomorrow style. Just absolutely zero intricacy, and I feel this is why the average music fan got impatient and the HEAVY-AS-FUCK style of metal came back into the mainstream (Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, etc.). And as bad as some of today's metal music is, the genre is clearly thriving again and nu-metal is looked back upon with embarassment as it should. Unintellegent music catered to an unintellegent music fan's market. I hope the bands that were hot at the time saved their money and invested wisely cus i'd imagine those royalty checks they continue to receive arent worth much..

My favourite nu metal album (and band) was Sinner by Drowning Pool.

Who cares what people like to "hate on" - like what you like no matter the catgegory.

That's what I do! Good song is a good song.

Limp Bizkit are often seen as the poster boys for all the bad press nu-metal gets these days, but there was a time when they were the most exciting rock band on the planet, before they became a parody of themselves.

"Significant Other" was an album that had some serious buzz. I was 12 or 13 when it dropped, which was pretty much their exact demographic, and they were blending rock with hip-hop in a truly great way. By collaborating with people like Method Man, DJ Premier, DMX etc they gained hip-hop credibility, and their musicianship rock-wise was solid. Everyone I knew loved that album.

There's an anecdote I'm not sure I've shared before that shows how on the button they were with youth culture. I was about 14 years old and on a school trip, the day "Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water" came out. At one point, we had the coach stop at a service stop, where there happened to be a music store. Every last kid on the coach bought that damn record, including myself. That's like 30-40 kids. You weren't cool if you didn't have that record. When BBC Radio 1 premiered the Mission Impossible theme song, "Take A Look Around", EVERYONE I knew my age was tuned in.

And although in hindsight some of Fred's lyrics seem cringeworthy, they didn't at the time, and we were his core demographic. Bizkit was a band pretty much purely aimed at teenagers and young people.

I think some of the Bizkit tracks, like "Boiler" still hold up pretty well, actually.



Slipknot and Korn were bands we loved and I still do actually, I think a lot of their stuff holds up too.

A lot of people jumped on the nu-metal bandwagon, and once something becomes a "trend" like that then it's really destined to have a short-shelf life before a major backlash happens, much like when the "Disco Sucks" movement happened after Saturday Night Fever etc etc. But just like with nu-metal, if you go back and listen to what people like Donna Summer and Chic and Georgio Morodor and Nile Rodgers were doing, a lot of it still holds up.

Militant said:

Limp Bizkit are often seen as the poster boys for all the bad press nu-metal gets these days, but there was a time when they were the most exciting rock band on the planet, before they became a parody of themselves.

"Significant Other" was an album that had some serious buzz. I was 12 or 13 when it dropped, which was pretty much their exact demographic, and they were blending rock with hip-hop in a truly great way. By collaborating with people like Method Man, DJ Premier, DMX etc they gained hip-hop credibility, and their musicianship rock-wise was solid. Everyone I knew loved that album.

There's an anecdote I'm not sure I've shared before that shows how on the button they were with youth culture. I was about 14 years old and on a school trip, the day "Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water" came out. At one point, we had the coach stop at a service stop, where there happened to be a music store. Every last kid on the coach bought that damn record, including myself. That's like 30-40 kids. You weren't cool if you didn't have that record. When BBC Radio 1 premiered the Mission Impossible theme song, "Take A Look Around", EVERYONE I knew my age was tuned in.

And although in hindsight some of Fred's lyrics seem cringeworthy, they didn't at the time, and we were his core demographic. Bizkit was a band pretty much purely aimed at teenagers and young people.

I think some of the Bizkit tracks, like "Boiler" still hold up pretty well, actually.



Slipknot and Korn were bands we loved and I still do actually, I think a lot of their stuff holds up too.

A lot of people jumped on the nu-metal bandwagon, and once something becomes a "trend" like that then it's really destined to have a short-shelf life before a major backlash happens, much like when the "Disco Sucks" movement happened after Saturday Night Fever etc etc. But just like with nu-metal, if you go back and listen to what people like Donna Summer and Chic and Georgio Morodor and Nile Rodgers were doing, a lot of it still holds up.

You know, I totally forgot about "Boiler". That really is a pretty damn solid track. Theres another track on Chocolate called "The One" that I still love to this day. LB had their moments and they've got great musicians in the band, but they ignored their full potential and dumbed down their playing to do nu-metal. As for Slipknot, I wouldnt consider them nu-metal exactly. Their debut definitely had some stuff that was clearly nu-metal but that album and the subsequent others had some very musically-impressive stuff that showed that not only were they not 100% nu-metal, but a group with musicians that could REALLY play some jaw-dropping music that the most elite of music snobs could appreciate. A lot of folks still cant get past Slipknot's image and masks as its a gimmick (and they totally ripped off Mr. Bungle by doing it) and thats a shame because they're avoiding a group with a forward-thinking attitude towards metal music. A perfect example of Slipknot's talent is the "Vol. 3 The Subliminal Verses" album. Some really awesome shit on that record, and it sold me on the knot's music.

[Edited 1/12/15 11:02am]

I see it as part of the evolution of the music, and it obviously evolved way faster than I did. It left me back in the dirt. I know it's my problem, being such a stick in the mud. I'm still tied to a certain pop music tradition of hooks & catchy choruses that you can even hear in Slayer.

I do like Napalm Death and some early extreme metal for how different and weird and brutal sounding it is, but once that becomes a style that other people pick up on, I just don't care as much.

Also let's be honest - most of those guys are pathetic rappers!

kygermo said:

Before I go on with my retort to this topic, I have to say something: PLEASE DO NOT lump Faith No More in with the "funk metal" catagory. That band (my fav band ever) was and is capable of doing any kind of music and did, and it all sounded so very sincere. FNM, much like Prince, is a music nerd's kind of music (very much like how Prince is a musician's musician) that just could not settle on one kind of style, but ALWAYS sounded like them performing.

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I would say much the same for Living Colour. I'd say a label like 'funk metal' or 'funk rock' doesn't cover what they do. LC are primarily a hardrock band that incorporates influences from many other genres (hence why they're also considered a fusion band). They can hop from style to style on different tracks (calypso on 'Solace Of You', metal on 'Go Away', blues on 'Love Rears Its Ugly Head').

.

On the analysis of Limp Bizkit, I position myself squarely behind kygermo and Militant. 3$Bill and S/O were hot stuff, especially in the timeframe they came out in. Afterwards, they quickly turned into a parody of themselves.

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As to whether Slipknot are nu-metal or not, nu-metal was such a hot trend at that time that I think everyone got sucked into it one way or another, and it depends how you define the term.

Some define it more with the hip-hop influence, meaning bands like Bizkit and Linkin Park are the most obvious examples, but other people actually define it more with the downtuned guitars and more obvious groove based songs, so that sort of widens the scope a little bit, and that definitely would include Slipknot IMO, as well as Marilyn Manson, who definitely wasn't nu-metal when he started out but certainly became nu-metal around the Mechanical Animals era.

One of my favorite nu-metal albums is actually "Roots" by Sepultura. Apparently Max the lead singer was the one who pushed for this kind of sound after hearing Korn's debut, and both Jonathan Davis and David Silveria of Korn featured on the album. Sepultura broke up after this, and the rest of the band went back to making thrash, whereas Max formed Soulfly and continued making more nu-metal style music.

ginusher said:

kygermo said:

Before I go on with my retort to this topic, I have to say something: PLEASE DO NOT lump Faith No More in with the "funk metal" catagory. That band (my fav band ever) was and is capable of doing any kind of music and did, and it all sounded so very sincere. FNM, much like Prince, is a music nerd's kind of music (very much like how Prince is a musician's musician) that just could not settle on one kind of style, but ALWAYS sounded like them performing.

.

I would say much the same for Living Colour. I'd say a label like 'funk metal' or 'funk rock' doesn't cover what they do. LC are primarily a hardrock band that incorporates influences from many other genres (hence why they're also considered a fusion band). They can hop from style to style on different tracks (calypso on 'Solace Of You', metal on 'Go Away', blues on 'Love Rears Its Ugly Head').

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On the analysis of Limp Bizkit, I position myself squarely behind kygermo and Militant. 3$Bill and S/O were hot stuff, especially in the timeframe they came out in. Afterwards, they quickly turned into a parody of themselves.

.

I have to be honest: I really don't know anything about Living Colour's music, with the exception of "Cult of Personality" of course. I mean, I know the band consists of some of the best musicians walking the planet (Will Calhoun = MONSTER DRUMMER!), but I was a very small child during their hay day and they're just one of those groups I haven't sought out yet..where should I start?

Militant said:

One of my favorite nu-metal albums is actually "Roots" by Sepultura. Apparently Max the lead singer was the one who pushed for this kind of sound after hearing Korn's debut, and both Jonathan Davis and David Silveria of Korn featured on the album. Sepultura broke up after this, and the rest of the band went back to making thrash, whereas Max formed Soulfly and continued making more nu-metal style music.

Sepultura as a whole are one of my very favorite bands ever. Even though the band consists of only one original member (Paulo) from the very beginning, as well as the Cavalera brothers both splitting, I have to tip my hat to Andreas Kisser for keeping the band rolling. Pretty much the entire metal scene (bunch of insatiable bastards lol) has written them off, but the band continues to release semi to half-decent albums (But their last album, "The Mediator.." is absolutely fucking fantastic) and they tour their asses off. And my love of Sep began with "Roots". I got into them right around when Soulfly came out, and I wont lie when I say that I checked Sep out strictly because of Ross Robinson's name being involved with it. And that record...did some great things for me. Even though it very much leans towards nu-metal, the ground Sep broke with the Brazilian tribal influences mixed with molten-hot metal was and is still just crazy to hear, and even crazier that it WORKED. Its almost like the "Bitches Brew" of metal music. And because that album is so ambitious and dense, you're always going to hear new stuff happening within the mix. And Roots continues to go over some people's heads which proves to me it was a revolutionary album you can't help but respect even if it isnt exactly your cup of tea. Thanks for reminding me of it, felt great to write about it just now!

kygermo said:

I have to be honest: I really don't know anything about Living Colour's music, with the exception of "Cult of Personality" of course. I mean, I know the band consists of some of the best musicians walking the planet (Will Calhoun = MONSTER DRUMMER!), but I was a very small child during their hay day and they're just one of those groups I haven't sought out yet..where should I start?

.

I would personally say that their sophomore album Time's Up (1990) is the one that can be considered their signature album, if they have one. A great introduction, plenty eclectic too.

.

If you like that, their debut Vivid (1988), which has 'Cult of Personality' on it, is also excellent, but in some places a tiny bit dated. It does feature a fine cover of a lesser known Talking Heads song.

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Their third album Stain (1993) was a departure in tone from their previous material, featuring a more sinister and angrier sound, but it remains my personal favourite. This was their first album to feature Doug Wimbish on bass, replacing Muzz Skillings.

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I think those three albums would make a fairly well-rounded introduction to the band (Time's Up itself would do); I must admit I haven't been keeping up with what they did after their reunion in 2003, although I did get to see them live in Amsterdam in 2008, which was a fantastic experience.

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ginusher said:

I would personally say that their sophomore album Time's Up (1990) is the one that can be considered their signature album, if they have one. A great introduction, plenty eclectic too.

.

If you like that, their debut Vivid (1988), which has 'Cult of Personality' on it, is also excellent, but in some places a tiny bit dated. It does feature a fine cover of a lesser known Talking Heads song.

.

Their third album Stain (1993) was a departure in tone from their previous material, featuring a more sinister and angrier sound, but it remains my personal favourite. This was their first album to feature Doug Wimbish on bass, replacing Muzz Skillings.

.

I think those three albums would make a fairly well-rounded introduction to the band (Time's Up itself would do); I must admit I haven't been keeping up with what they did after their reunion in 2003, although I did get to see them live in Amsterdam in 2008, which was a fantastic experience.

.

Stain it is! Going to dl that bad boy now, thank you!

kygermo said:

Roots continues to go over some people's heads which proves to me it was a revolutionary album

Absolutely.

A truly revolutionary record.

Have you seen Soulfly live? "Roots Bloody Roots" is still in their set, since stylistically it kinda fits better with the rest of the Soulfly material than it does with Sepultura material.

I was fortunate enough to see Soulfly on the "Dark Ages" tour and the whole place lost their shit when they played that song.

Militant said:

Have you seen Soulfly live? "Roots Bloody Roots" is still in their set, since stylistically it kinda fits better with the rest of the Soulfly material than it does with Sepultura material.

I was fortunate enough to see Soulfly on the "Dark Ages" tour and the whole place lost their shit when they played that song.

I have, twice. First time as headliners at a club gig in Philly, and then a second time opening up for Slayer a couple years later. Have also seen Sep (with Derrick Green on vocals, and Igor was still in the band) once and then I saw Cavalera Conspiracy, and CC was by far the best one. It was when they released their first album so the show was like 1/3 CC material and the other 2/3 classic Sepultura and it was...intense. I have to tell you the truth and thats that Im not the biggest Soulfly fan. Im old-school Sepultura all the way, and I feel the line-up after Max left did some pretty interesting stuff with their music. Not all of it worked of course, but I appreciated them branching out whereas I feel Max beat a dead horse with taking the Roots-sound as far as he could go with Soulfly, and while I think "Dark Ages" rocks pretty hard (and I only checked it out because he was saying he was going back to his thrash days while doing press for it), the dude is pretty much out of ideas as a composer, and I stopped paying attention after "Conquer" simply because he was saying nothing new. But I WILL say he has a knack for having good bands, as his current axeman Marc Rizzo is just a beast of a player. On that note, Cavalera Conspiracy released a new album, and it was so heavy it scared the hell out of me and I'd recommend it in a heartbeat. Something about the brothers Cavalera...they always bring the scary shit when together. But nothing beats the original Sepultura.

bobzilla77 said:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Rg2m66Dv0iw[]

This was my favorite of the Ross Robinson produced bands at the time. Pretty trad.

[Edited 1/13/15 22:31pm]

Amen are a pretty cool band. I couldn't really get into the Death Before Musick, album though.

Anyway I saw them back in 2003 when they opened up for killing Joke. Casey Chaos is pretty much a legend in Punk circles, and is off the hook(crazy) when he performs !