nextedition said:

nextedition said:

MattyJam said:

Prince was asked in one word to describe Michael and he said "Genius". When asked to describe Janet he said "Genius's sister".

Looks like it's not just only in my dreams after all....

Why do i always get the feeling that men are called geniusses and women are puppets?

Michael needed Quincy Jones just at much.

But Janet was only just a puppet of course with no talent.

And Madonna is a slut of course with no talent.

Michael continued having hits long after ditching Quincy.

Janet's career derailed the moment she stopped being produced by Jam & Lewis.

Than why didn't jam&lewis have the same success with any other of their artists?

------------

They have written 31 top ten hits in the UK and 41 in the USA...they werent all for Michael's little sister...

google their discography and then TRY to ask that question again...

new edition

michael jackson

human league

force mds

SOS Band

Ralph Tresvant

sounds of blackness

mariah carey

earth wind & fire

george michael

boys 2 men

mary j blige

johnny gill

alexander oneal

cherrelle

the above artists beg to differ with your statement...their works with janet was more publicized because it got more pop station airplay, than most of their other projects

[Edited 12/26/14 16:55pm]

MattyJam said:

Michael's worst album (Invincible imo) is better than Janet's best. Michael was a genius. Janet was a good popstar. Lets keep some perspective here people.

Not to turn this into a tit-for-tat thread (for the love of all that is holy), but Invincible is better than RN or The Velvet Rope? Surely you jest.

SEANMAN said:

MattyJam said:

Michael's worst album (Invincible imo) is better than Janet's best. Michael was a genius. Janet was a good popstar. Lets keep some perspective here people.

Not to turn this into a tit-for-tat thread (for the love of all that is holy), but Invincible is better than RN or The Velvet Rope? Surely you jest.

and this is the exact reason why Janet Jackson is half way across the world w/no thoughts of coming back

Janet's career derailed the moment she stopped being produced by Jam & Lewis.

------

... EXACTLY...

and it was going nowhere B4 she got with them

I had forgotten about "Come Give Your Love To Me" great song! I like the New Wave feel of that song.Her first album is underrated.Some good songs there.

RJOrion said:

RJOrion said:

Scorp said:

what exactly is/was Janet great at?

* average to below average voice

* robotic, over-crowded, over-choreographed, "dancing"?

* plastic, artificially enhanced beauty?

* marriage?

no hate, but im just not seeing/hearing the greatnesss...she had some great songs (produced by Harris and Lewis), but can anyone name a song by Janet Jackson, NOT produced by Jam & Lewis, that was a genuine hit?...

clearly, she needed them (and her Family Name) more than they needed her...without her, they were still prolific hit-makers.. but without them, she was just "Penny" from "Good Times", or Michael & Jermaine's baby sister

be clear

RJOrion said:

SEANMAN said:

MattyJam said:

Michael's worst album (Invincible imo) is better than Janet's best. Michael was a genius. Janet was a good popstar. Lets keep some perspective here people.

Not to turn this into a tit-for-tat thread (for the love of all that is holy), but Invincible is better than RN or The Velvet Rope? Surely you jest.

Perhaps TVR is better (definately Janet's artistic peak), but RN is overrated imo. It may be her most iconic album, but musically it has dated badly and there's too many silly interludes which I find hard to take seriously. Granted, MJ was definately inspired by the social-political content on RN but he one-upped her with Dangerous, which is leagues above RN in every way.

I actually preferred JJ from 93 onwards, the Janet album, TVR, AFY and Damita Jo (which was a very underrated album). You can still play most of the songs from those albums in 2014 and it sounds fresh.

Unlike some of the folks in this thread I do rate Janet as a great popstar. I just think Michael was in a whole other league musically and talent-wise. Invincible may be his worst album, but it has aged remarkably well and songs like Speechless, Heaven Can Wait, Butterflies, Whatever Happens and YRMW still sound great today.

[Edited 12/27/14 1:01am]

MattyJam said:

SEANMAN said:

Not to turn this into a tit-for-tat thread (for the love of all that is holy), but Invincible is better than RN or The Velvet Rope? Surely you jest.

Perhaps TVR is better (definately Janet's artistic peak), but RN is overrated imo. It may be her most iconic album, but musically it has dated badly and there's too many silly interludes which I find hard to take seriously. Granted, MJ was definately inspired by the social-political content on RN but he one-upped her with Dangerous, which is leagues above RN in every way.

I actually preferred JJ from 93 onwards, the Janet album, TVR, AFY and Damita Jo (which was a very underrated album). You can still play most of the songs from those albums in 2014 and it sounds fresh.

Unlike some of the folks in this thread I do rate Janet as a great popstar. I just think Michael was in a whole other league musically and talent-wise. Invincible may be his worst album, but it has aged remarkably well and songs like Speechless, Heaven Can Wait, Butterflies, Whatever Happens and YRMW still sound great today.

[Edited 12/27/14 1:01am]

one thing I've never ever understood over the past two decades is the need to uphold Michael Jackson by tearing Janet Jackson or any other member of the Jackson family who has significant musical output of their own

I don't understand that at all.......

why does Michael Jackson need propping up for......we all know what he accomplished in his career

but I think I do know what it is though

during the age of OFF THE WALL and THRILLER, his fans during that time didn't feel the need to tear the family down to build up MJ because this is when MJ was at his absolute best, when the entire family contribution was acknowledged and appreciated before things got distorted

if you were a fan of MJ, you were a fan of Janet, you were a fan of Jermaine, and even if u didn't buy their albums per se, you respected and acknowledged their own brand of talent

when Janet is compared to MJ, her albums are NEVER compared to OFF THE WALL or THRILLER...no need for comparison, things were so authentic, we didn't have to bring up who sold what, who produced what, who contributed what.....it was what it was

but when Janet's work is compared to MJ's work, it's always from MJ'S albums of Dangerous, History, and Invincible....even Bad

Rhythm Nation hasn't dated at all....the problem is radio doesn't want to play those type of songs because of his sociall conscious imprint throughout that entire album......they dont' want to touch it, which explains why we don't hear anyone on the scene at the moment making socially conscious songs either.....

Janet has absolutely nothing to prove as a female performer in this ever fickle, toast riddled music industry and that's why she's living half way across the world w/zero thoughts of ever coming back......when there is absolutely nothing to come back to.....she knows the industry is finished

MattyJam said:

MattyJam said:

JanFan said:

MattyJam said:

Prince was asked in one word to describe Michael and he said "Genius". When asked to describe Janet he said "Genius's sister".

Looks like it's not just only in my dreams after all....

And??? Is Prince God now? Who gives a shit about his opinion. Prince is a known asshole. As much great material he has produced, he's released just as much crap. He always carries himself with this arrogance and looks down on other artists just because he plays an instrument. As if everything he writes is prolific.

SoulAlive said:

JanFan said:

MattyJam said: And??? Is Prince God now? Who gives a shit about his opinion. Prince is a known asshole. As much great material he has produced, he's released just as much crap. He always carries himself with this arrogance and looks down on other artists just because he plays an instrument. As if everything he writes is prolific.

I'm not sure Janfan knows what the word 'prolific' means Because Prince is the definition of it, but whatever.

.

I'm fine with most of Janet's music up to a point, specifically TVR, but then there is a decline and when it gets to say 'Rock Wit U', well fuck that, it's just crap.

.

I'm amazed that an artist that claims she loves Joni Mitchell so much can't find it in her to sit and write something with substance, a bit of thought, with real musicians involved. No more "sexy" segues from a middle aged woman. Won't happen though now as she's married that filthy-rich arab billionare, so her hands will be tied. That, and she seemingly can't be arsed anymore anyway.

.

Oh well!

JanFan said:

MattyJam said:

Michael's worst album (Invincible imo) is better than Janet's best. Michael was a genius. Janet was a good popstar. Lets keep some perspective here people.

Michael's last great album was Dangerous. Everything after was self-conscious and bogged down with filler. By History his music had become redundant. All that and Invincible consisted of was tabloid and environmental songs. There was nothing genius on either. Michael is my second favorite artist but that's the truth. I can admit Janet's shortcomings and I can do so without bringing Michael down. It seems like Michael is always put on this untouchable pedestal while his sister is put down in the process. By 1995 Michael's music, performances and dance moves became stale and repitative. By 1995, Michael the genius was no more. His personal life completely overshadowed his music a nd that affected his music. His music was best when he didn't constantly repond to rumors about him. That's why he never topped Off the Wall and Thriller.

HIStory was a fantastic work precisely because it was a reaction with real emotion. It's more real than anything on Bad or Dangerous for sure. That was still Disney Mike, HIStory most certainly was not.

.

What a dark fucking album it is in places (Little Susie, Money & Stranger in Moscow etc) and for Michael, quite a quick release after the allegations.

.

You might see it as bogged down, but i hear it as inspired. Even if that inspiration came from a dark time for him. Great, great art.

.

Invincible was a bit shit though.

[Edited 12/27/14 16:50pm]

Marrk said:

Anytime someone brings up Janet on this site they are always quick to downplay her talent. Oh she is famous because she is Michael's sister, Oh she can't sing blah blah blah despite having four classic albums, iconic performances/albums and videos. Despite proving that she is a superstar in her own right outside of her last name and brother. Ya'll insist on bashing her but yet fond over a overrated hack like Beyonce. I will never get the logic behind it really. I am not sure why you have to bash Michael in order to like Janet but that is the way it goes this site. The Prince fans are relentless on the MJ hate.

mjscarousal said:

Anytime someone brings up Janet on this site they are always quick to downplay her talent. Oh she is famous because she is Michael's sister, Oh she can't sing blah blah blah despite having four classic albums, iconic performances/albums and videos. Despite proving that she is a superstar in her own right outside of her last name and brother. Ya'll insist on bashing her but yet fond over a overrated hack like Beyonce. I will never get the logic behind it really. I am not sure why you have to bash Michael in order to like Janet but that is the way it goes this site. The Prince fans are relentless on the MJ hate.

Agreed

BlackCat1985 said:

RJOrion said:

Janet's career derailed the moment she stopped being produced by Jam & Lewis.

------

... EXACTLY...

and it was going nowhere B4 she got with them

It was going nowhere because Janet didn't want to be a singer. Janet had great producers on those first two ablums. But her heart wasn't into it. She was just doing what her father said. Jimmy and Terry didn't want to work with Janet unless she spoke up and was involved with her project. It was the reason why they insisted that she come to Minneapolis in the first place.

THIS

RJOrion said:

Janet's career derailed the moment she stopped being produced by Jam & Lewis.

------

... EXACTLY...

and it was going nowhere B4 she got with them

No. Janet's career charts-wise was derailed by the SB incident. DAMITA JO was a Janet/Jam/Lewis affair for the most part, but the bruhaha over a .5 second flash of her nipple-shielded tit put a clamp on any further success the album might have enjoyed because radio and MTV abandoned her. The negativity from that incident went on to effect all of her subsequent output. It didn't matter who she worked with--radio just wouldn't have been willing to give it a chance. As for her career before J/L, well, her heart wasn't really in it. She had some great producers on those first two albums, but she didn't really find her niche or hit her stride until 1986.

SoulAlive said:

I had forgotten about "Come Give Your Love To Me" great song! I like the New Wave feel of that song.Her first album is underrated.Some good songs there.

all these years

not one time did I ever say, or believe that Janet Jackson's success resulted from being the sister of Michael Jackson

did her last name open a door for her.....sure it did

as Jermaine Jackson alluded to, the success of The Jackson Five set the foundation for everyone's success individually in that family who made music

MattyJam said:

RJOrion said:

im no Beyonce fan either, but she is more talented (and beautiful), than janet jackson...shit, Solange sings and dances and looks etter than janet jackson...ive always thought this was common knowledge, as almost everyone i know, feels the same about her average singing voice, and the fact that the music carried her songs...im quite surprised to encounter such an army of loyal stans who feel otherwise

another reason why Janet Jackson is never coming back.......

in the past 25 years, no female entertainer along w/a bevy of male entertainers has created an album, a centerpiece greater than what Janet did with Rhythm Nation....

SuperSoulFighter said:

MattyJam said:

Prince was asked in one word to describe Michael and he said "Genius". When asked to describe Janet he said "Genius's sister".

Looks like it's not just only in my dreams after all....

What did he say about LaToya?

After she covered his song "Private Joy"?