CynicKill said:

>

And possibly the worst song ever:

[Edited 8/4/14 14:29pm]

CynicKill---I would normally click on these videos but I am fearful that the combined eight minutes of this sideshow, I will never get back Judging from the still shots, it looks like these are just basic ratchet hip-hop anthems glorifying a bunch of stuff that they will burn their advance from the record label on. Any other brave soul want to watch these two videos and tell me what they are about so I don't lose my 8 minutes?

^^I say listen to the second one just for the unbelieveable tribute to a fictional Disney icon. You have to see it to believe it.

I thought Busta was in the Five Percent Nation?

CynicKill said:

^^I say listen to the second one just for the unbelieveable tribute to a fictional Disney icon. You have to see it to believe it.

Alright, alright, fair enough I'll listen to the second one but I will post every single thought that I have about it in this thread. So, please warn the hypersensitive people to look away

Okay CynicKill, now that I have watched the video, I'll write my dissertation below

First, I have heard this song before and have seen people post videos online of their kids gettin' turnt up, so to speak, from this song. The beat isn't the most complicated or intriguing but it's catchy. This is what you call gettin' drunk music. You know, the music in the club that's in the background while people are holding drinks, taking pics of themselves and posting it on social media. It's one of THOSE kinds of anthems. I sure hope that Versace gave them some kind of huge payout for basically doing a 4-minute commercial There's no lyrical depth whatsoever in this song and it's a far cry from the type of hip-hop that actually respected having a decent lyrical game.

A few months ago, these Migos guys were involved in a shootout in Atlanta after a concert. Not surprising that they face no charges and didn't spend a minute in jail. I bet the lawyers that record exes use are pretty good at making sure there's no jail time for wayward (popular) artists. The shootout happened after the Versace song was released. These guys, who look like knock off 2Chainz, seem to be popular on WorldStar Hip-Hop. But, I think they are popular with people who like mindless music and probably could care less about the lyrics.

The problem that I see with videos like this are the following:

First, within the first 60 seconds of the song, we hear references to the mafia, fancy clothes, white chicks (that were once forbidden to black men up until about 45 years ago) and alcohol. These guys are in some huge mansion, showing off expensive watches, clothes and other stuff. They evn have an exotic pet. But, all of these videos just show a lifestyle that for most people is completely unrealistic. They are selling the fantasy that the crooks who run the industry sell to impressionable minds.

These guys have zero flow and they pass off as about as interesting as watching paint dry. But, because they are being heavily promoted by their label, they will be sold to the masses for something better than what they are. Put these guys up against Common, Mos Def or Kendrick Lamar, Lupe Fiasco and they turn to dust....quickly! But the record companies love selling this type of nonsense because it keeps the image that they want to continue going strong. The shoe designers, clothes designers, alcohol brands just LOVE this type of stuff because it lets them sell their product. There was a shameless plug for a brand of alcohol about halfway in the video.

The repeated shoutouts to Miley Cyrus made me wonder if Mike Will Made It produced this but I don't feel like looking it up right now

[Edited 8/4/14 16:41pm]

[Edited 8/4/14 16:50pm]

This song is a few years old but still pretty stupid. Anybody care to analyze this one?

Gunsnhalen said:

I honestly can't be mad at Busta for this. Snoop has been doing this kind of thing for years and years.

He sure has..doesn't make it any better though. I remember when MTV was doing some kind of "Icons" show to legendary artists in the early 00's and Metallica was being honored. I don't know who in the hell asked Snoop to be a part of the tribute when he horribly "rapped" one of their well known songs (I forget which one it was) but when the camera cut to the band...Mr. Hetfield was not happy.

[Edited 8/4/14 16:52pm]

major toast

it's all over and been over for quite some time....

the gig is up

I just came across this video by Migos on World Star HipHop that was posted recently. It seems that despite there being a lot of negative comments about these guys in the comments section, they had a packed crowd at whatever gig they did this particular night.

Disclaimer: There are a few slurs used in this video, unfortunately.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhTnGX9WUndVJWlxQ4

missfee said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I honestly can't be mad at Busta for this. Snoop has been doing this kind of thing for years and years.

He sure has..doesn't make it any better though. I remember when MTV was doing some kind of "Icons" show to legendary artists in the early 00's and Metallica was being honored. I don't know who in the hell asked Snoop to be a part of the tribute when he horribly "rapped" one of their well known songs (I forget which one it was) but when the camera cut to the band...Mr. Hetfield was not happy.

[Edited 8/4/14 16:52pm]

Oh yeah! Snoop did Sad But true. I thought it was... aight. Snoop will work with anyone nowadays! if Martha Stewart called up for a rap album he's be on it.

Maybe Busta is in the same boat. He worked with Chris Brown... then went to Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, and Paris Hilton. I feel like he would have dissed them in the 90's. But, he gotta make bread.

SeventeenDayze said:

I just came across this video by Migos on World Star HipHop that was posted recently. It seems that despite there being a lot of negative comments about these guys in the comments section, they had a packed crowd at whatever gig they did this particular night.

Disclaimer: There are a few slurs used in this video, unfortunately.

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhTnGX9WUndVJWlxQ4

Hmmm...

Yeah they have an audience.

KoolEaze said:

duccichucka said:

You two are so crazy wrong. . .

Tell me: when was Biggie not rapping about Coogie sweaters, weed, how much money he

had, Versace materialism? Who was Biggie's promoter/producer? You cannot place the

blame squarely on Puffy's shoulders. If you do, you have to point at the rapper Puffy put

on the map as well.

And Suge Knight had nothing to do with Tupac's lifestyle. The two were attracted to each of

because of similar lifestyle. Face it, Tupac and Biggie were just as consumed with materialism

as any other materialistic rapper today.

But of course....that was my point.

I´m just saying that, despite the materialism, Biggie at least still had skills, funny punchlines and whatnot...unlike most rappers today...that kind of makes his music a guilty pleasure, if you will. Same goes for Tupac...for every smart lyric there is a really superficial and shallow one.

Puffy and Suge are not the only ones to blame, you´re right about that....however, as CEOs and producers, they benefitted from the whole atmosphere that they helped create, and embraced all the bad aspects that we, you and I , both mentioned already.

Maybe it´s just my blurred memory that makes me remember Puffy and Suge as the bigger evils behind it all, whereas Pac and Biggie at least made me think or smile or laugh...but yeah, you´re right, the blame lies with them as well, not just Suge and Puff.

To be honest, I like Biggie and Tupac in hindsight more than I actually did back then. Back then, I liked certain songs of them but all in all, I could already tell that things wouldn´t last and as an old school Hip Hop follower who still believed in the ideals of the Zulu Nation I always found the vulgar, obscene and materialistic trends in Hip Hop quite alarming.

Especially the way how the very term Hip Hop was being usurped, misused, exploited, tarnished and given a whole new meaning at some point.

But I digress and sound like an old man.

It´s just that I loved it so much back then and it´s a big part of my biography, and now it´s turned into a sad joke, a travesty. However, I do believe that there are still some very talented MCs out there.

So, materialistic rap is okay if you're witty? You said for every materialistic lyric Tupac

uttered, there was a "smart" one. But couldn't the same be said for Lil Wayne, or Petey

Pablo, or Kendrick Lamar? Rap inherently is materialistic because its contains so much

braggadocio. Rock n roll is about fucking chicks. Rap is about bragging. Am I being a

reductionist here? Yep. But if the shoe fits. . .

And you're still trying to blame Puffy for materialistic rap: Puffy was just highlighting what

was already popular in the 'hood: ghetto fabulousness. He just put it on MTV and BET. If

you want to blame somebody for the explosion of materialistic rap, look at the materialistic

and ironically poor Black Americans who lusted after living that lifestyle. Puffy gave those

east coast ninjas exactly what they wanted. And Suge gave those west coast homies what

they wanted too.

Anyways, yeah: rap is an art form that subsists on bragging about X, Y, and Z. Once you

realize this, or, come to terms with it, you won't get upset when Biggie and Tupac both

rap about Versace, just as I understand the context of Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher."

duccichucka said:

KoolEaze said:

But of course....that was my point.

I´m just saying that, despite the materialism, Biggie at least still had skills, funny punchlines and whatnot...unlike most rappers today...that kind of makes his music a guilty pleasure, if you will. Same goes for Tupac...for every smart lyric there is a really superficial and shallow one.

Puffy and Suge are not the only ones to blame, you´re right about that....however, as CEOs and producers, they benefitted from the whole atmosphere that they helped create, and embraced all the bad aspects that we, you and I , both mentioned already.

Maybe it´s just my blurred memory that makes me remember Puffy and Suge as the bigger evils behind it all, whereas Pac and Biggie at least made me think or smile or laugh...but yeah, you´re right, the blame lies with them as well, not just Suge and Puff.

To be honest, I like Biggie and Tupac in hindsight more than I actually did back then. Back then, I liked certain songs of them but all in all, I could already tell that things wouldn´t last and as an old school Hip Hop follower who still believed in the ideals of the Zulu Nation I always found the vulgar, obscene and materialistic trends in Hip Hop quite alarming.

Especially the way how the very term Hip Hop was being usurped, misused, exploited, tarnished and given a whole new meaning at some point.

But I digress and sound like an old man.

It´s just that I loved it so much back then and it´s a big part of my biography, and now it´s turned into a sad joke, a travesty. However, I do believe that there are still some very talented MCs out there.

So, materialistic rap is okay if you're witty? You said for every materialistic lyric Tupac

uttered, there was a "smart" one. But couldn't the same be said for Lil Wayne, or Petey

Pablo, or Kendrick Lamar? Rap inherently is materialistic because its contains so much

braggadocio. Rock n roll is about fucking chicks. Rap is about bragging. Am I being a

reductionist here? Yep. But if the shoe fits. . .

And you're still trying to blame Puffy for materialistic rap: Puffy was just highlighting what

was already popular in the 'hood: ghetto fabulousness. He just put it on MTV and BET. If

you want to blame somebody for the explosion of materialistic rap, look at the materialistic

and ironically poor Black Americans who lusted after living that lifestyle. Puffy gave those

east coast ninjas exactly what they wanted. And Suge gave those west coast homies what

they wanted too.

Anyways, yeah: rap is an art form that subsists on bragging about X, Y, and Z. Once you

realize this, or, come to terms with it, you won't get upset when Biggie and Tupac both

rap about Versace, just as I understand the context of Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher."

Tupac had several gems that didn't glorify violence, demean women or bragged about being hood rich. Songs such as Changes, Keep Ya Head Up, etc. were positive, IMHO.

SeventeenDayze said:

duccichucka said:

So, materialistic rap is okay if you're witty? You said for every materialistic lyric Tupac

uttered, there was a "smart" one. But couldn't the same be said for Lil Wayne, or Petey

Pablo, or Kendrick Lamar? Rap inherently is materialistic because its contains so much

braggadocio. Rock n roll is about fucking chicks. Rap is about bragging. Am I being a

reductionist here? Yep. But if the shoe fits. . .

And you're still trying to blame Puffy for materialistic rap: Puffy was just highlighting what

was already popular in the 'hood: ghetto fabulousness. He just put it on MTV and BET. If

you want to blame somebody for the explosion of materialistic rap, look at the materialistic

and ironically poor Black Americans who lusted after living that lifestyle. Puffy gave those

east coast ninjas exactly what they wanted. And Suge gave those west coast homies what

they wanted too.

Anyways, yeah: rap is an art form that subsists on bragging about X, Y, and Z. Once you

realize this, or, come to terms with it, you won't get upset when Biggie and Tupac both

rap about Versace, just as I understand the context of Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher."

Tupac had several gems that didn't glorify violence, demean women or bragged about being hood rich. Songs such as Changes, Keep Ya Head Up, etc. were positive, IMHO.

Exactly. Call me when someone like Migos writes a song like "Hold Ya Head", or "White Manz World", or "Letter 2 The President", or "Trapped", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", or "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Mama's Just A Little Girl", or "Thugz Mansion", or "Dear Mama", or "The Good Die Young".


Pac on his worst day was deeper than any of these cats making what passes for hip-hop now.

SeventeenDayze said:

duccichucka said:

So, materialistic rap is okay if you're witty? You said for every materialistic lyric Tupac

uttered, there was a "smart" one. But couldn't the same be said for Lil Wayne, or Petey

Pablo, or Kendrick Lamar? Rap inherently is materialistic because its contains so much

braggadocio. Rock n roll is about fucking chicks. Rap is about bragging. Am I being a

reductionist here? Yep. But if the shoe fits. . .

And you're still trying to blame Puffy for materialistic rap: Puffy was just highlighting what

was already popular in the 'hood: ghetto fabulousness. He just put it on MTV and BET. If

you want to blame somebody for the explosion of materialistic rap, look at the materialistic

and ironically poor Black Americans who lusted after living that lifestyle. Puffy gave those

east coast ninjas exactly what they wanted. And Suge gave those west coast homies what

they wanted too.

Anyways, yeah: rap is an art form that subsists on bragging about X, Y, and Z. Once you

realize this, or, come to terms with it, you won't get upset when Biggie and Tupac both

rap about Versace, just as I understand the context of Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher."

Tupac had several gems that didn't glorify violence, demean women or bragged about being hood rich. Songs such as Changes, Keep Ya Head Up, etc. were positive, IMHO.

And your point of making this distinction that was already made was. . . ? I think it has been

sufficiently established by me and KoolEaze that Tupac could be both materialistic and insightful

at the same time.

Militant said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Tupac had several gems that didn't glorify violence, demean women or bragged about being hood rich. Songs such as Changes, Keep Ya Head Up, etc. were positive, IMHO.

Exactly. Call me when someone like Migos writes a song like "Hold Ya Head", or "White Manz World", or "Letter 2 The President", or "Trapped", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", or "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Mama's Just A Little Girl", or "Thugz Mansion", or "Dear Mama", or "The Good Die Young".


Pac on his worst day was deeper than any of these cats making what passes for hip-hop now.

Do you know that one could easily scan Tupac's discography and list songs that glorified violence,

demeaned women, and rhapsodized about "thug life"? Tupac on his "worst day" may have been

deeper than A$AP Rocky, but that don't make his songs that glorified and rhapsodized violence

and the attraction to "thug life" any better.

You and 17dayze are missing the point: Tupac, like Biggie, and other rap artists, are both

materialistic and insightful as rap is mostly a bragging art form.

duccichucka said:

KoolEaze said:

But of course....that was my point.

I´m just saying that, despite the materialism, Biggie at least still had skills, funny punchlines and whatnot...unlike most rappers today...that kind of makes his music a guilty pleasure, if you will. Same goes for Tupac...for every smart lyric there is a really superficial and shallow one.

Puffy and Suge are not the only ones to blame, you´re right about that....however, as CEOs and producers, they benefitted from the whole atmosphere that they helped create, and embraced all the bad aspects that we, you and I , both mentioned already.

Maybe it´s just my blurred memory that makes me remember Puffy and Suge as the bigger evils behind it all, whereas Pac and Biggie at least made me think or smile or laugh...but yeah, you´re right, the blame lies with them as well, not just Suge and Puff.

To be honest, I like Biggie and Tupac in hindsight more than I actually did back then. Back then, I liked certain songs of them but all in all, I could already tell that things wouldn´t last and as an old school Hip Hop follower who still believed in the ideals of the Zulu Nation I always found the vulgar, obscene and materialistic trends in Hip Hop quite alarming.

Especially the way how the very term Hip Hop was being usurped, misused, exploited, tarnished and given a whole new meaning at some point.

But I digress and sound like an old man.

It´s just that I loved it so much back then and it´s a big part of my biography, and now it´s turned into a sad joke, a travesty. However, I do believe that there are still some very talented MCs out there.

So, materialistic rap is okay if you're witty? You said for every materialistic lyric Tupac

uttered, there was a "smart" one. But couldn't the same be said for Lil Wayne, or Petey

Pablo, or Kendrick Lamar? Rap inherently is materialistic because its contains so much

braggadocio. Rock n roll is about fucking chicks. Rap is about bragging. Am I being a

reductionist here? Yep. But if the shoe fits. . .

And you're still trying to blame Puffy for materialistic rap: Puffy was just highlighting what

was already popular in the 'hood: ghetto fabulousness. He just put it on MTV and BET. If

you want to blame somebody for the explosion of materialistic rap, look at the materialistic

and ironically poor Black Americans who lusted after living that lifestyle. Puffy gave those

east coast ninjas exactly what they wanted. And Suge gave those west coast homies what

they wanted too.

Anyways, yeah: rap is an art form that subsists on bragging about X, Y, and Z. Once you

realize this, or, come to terms with it, you won't get upset when Biggie and Tupac both

rap about Versace, just as I understand the context of Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher."

This statement could make one believe that you don't know much about music. Various rap music contains a broad range of topics, not just partying, talking the hard life, or screwing women....just as all rock n roll is NOT about chicks. When you think about artists like Public Enemy, KRS-One, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Gang Starr, Pete Rock, etc. their music wasn't about how they wanted to be the "Nino Brown" of the world or what kind of car they bought last month. There's plenty of rap music around that is really deep and give real and positives messages.

duccichucka said:

Militant said:

Exactly. Call me when someone like Migos writes a song like "Hold Ya Head", or "White Manz World", or "Letter 2 The President", or "Trapped", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", or "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Mama's Just A Little Girl", or "Thugz Mansion", or "Dear Mama", or "The Good Die Young".


Pac on his worst day was deeper than any of these cats making what passes for hip-hop now.

Do you know that one could easily scan Tupac's discography and list songs that glorified violence,

demeaned women, and rhapsodized about "thug life"? Tupac on his "worst day" may have been

deeper than A$AP Rocky, but that don't make his songs that glorified and rhapsodized violence

and the attraction to "thug life" any better.

You and 17dayze are missing the point: Tupac, like Biggie, and other rap artists, are both

materialistic and insightful as rap is mostly a bragging art form.

I'm intimately familiar with his catalog. I've worked with the Shakur family and I made a documentary for the BBC for the 10th anniversary of his passing back in 2006. The dichotomy between Tupac's "Thug Life" side (ie, the 'Pac that wrote "Hit Em Up") , and his socially aware, caring, activist, artistic side (ie, the 'Pac that wrote "The Rose That Grew From Concrete" poems and the songs I listed) is exactly what makes him so enigmatic, so appealing, and so, at times, puzzling. It's the classic struggle between two sides, like his fellow Gemini Prince.


So yes, while I can agree that at times, Tupac adhered to the "rules" of the art form, I'd also argue that he completely transcended it, which is why he is easily the most beloved hip-hop artist of all time.

2freaky4church1 said:

I thought Busta was in the Five Percent Nation?

No, he simply hates gays.

Militant said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Tupac had several gems that didn't glorify violence, demean women or bragged about being hood rich. Songs such as Changes, Keep Ya Head Up, etc. were positive, IMHO.

Exactly. Call me when someone like Migos writes a song like "Hold Ya Head", or "White Manz World", or "Letter 2 The President", or "Trapped", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", or "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Mama's Just A Little Girl", or "Thugz Mansion", or "Dear Mama", or "The Good Die Young".


Pac on his worst day was deeper than any of these cats making what passes for hip-hop now.

On a different thread (Jailing of Black America), I posted some of Tupac's videos with lyrics to show that the dude was a deep thinker. You posted a lot more songs that I did, Militant These are all good examples of how he was still very much what folks used to call a conscious rapper. There hasn't been an A-lister rapper with that amount of commercial success who was as equally deep into his lyricism. The fact that Stevie Wonder liked Tupac says a lot too. Stevie basically dissed Eminem and said Eminem would never be Tupac! Chuuuuurch! LOL!

[Edited 8/5/14 9:42am]

duccichucka said:

Militant said:

Exactly. Call me when someone like Migos writes a song like "Hold Ya Head", or "White Manz World", or "Letter 2 The President", or "Trapped", or "Brenda's Got A Baby", or "Keep Ya Head Up", or "Mama's Just A Little Girl", or "Thugz Mansion", or "Dear Mama", or "The Good Die Young".


Pac on his worst day was deeper than any of these cats making what passes for hip-hop now.

Do you know that one could easily scan Tupac's discography and list songs that glorified violence,

demeaned women, and rhapsodized about "thug life"? Tupac on his "worst day" may have been

deeper than A$AP Rocky, but that don't make his songs that glorified and rhapsodized violence

and the attraction to "thug life" any better.

You and 17dayze are missing the point: Tupac, like Biggie, and other rap artists, are both

materialistic and insightful as rap is mostly a bragging art form.

It seems that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, so to speak. Just because someone says that Tupac had several insightful songs, etc. is NOT implying that ALL songs that he did were like that. Geez. Are you just arguing for the sake of having an argument? Given that Dr Dre & Suge Knight were his boss at different points, it's amazing that Tupac got ANY positive music out there. Chew on that...

Cinny said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I thought Busta was in the Five Percent Nation?

No, he simply hates gays.

Interesting, now it makes me wonder if the gay rumors about him are true

Militant said:

duccichucka said:

Do you know that one could easily scan Tupac's discography and list songs that glorified violence,

demeaned women, and rhapsodized about "thug life"? Tupac on his "worst day" may have been

deeper than A$AP Rocky, but that don't make his songs that glorified and rhapsodized violence

and the attraction to "thug life" any better.

You and 17dayze are missing the point: Tupac, like Biggie, and other rap artists, are both

materialistic and insightful as rap is mostly a bragging art form.

I'm intimately familiar with his catalog. I've worked with the Shakur family and I made a documentary for the BBC for the 10th anniversary of his passing back in 2006. The dichotomy between Tupac's "Thug Life" side (ie, the 'Pac that wrote "Hit Em Up") , and his socially aware, caring, activist, artistic side (ie, the 'Pac that wrote "The Rose That Grew From Concrete" poems and the songs I listed) is exactly what makes him so enigmatic, so appealing, and so, at times, puzzling. It's the classic struggle between two sides, like his fellow Gemini Prince.


So yes, while I can agree that at times, Tupac adhered to the "rules" of the art form, I'd also argue that he completely transcended it, which is why he is easily the most beloved hip-hop artist of all time.

Yeah he was caught in two worlds. I think at times he was sick of it, judging by the music that he wrote especially towards the end of his life. To me, it seems that Tupac was rare in the sense that he had more of an artistic, thought-provoking approach to his music. I don't think he was being fed verses and told to carry himself a certain way. I think that's just who he really was. He just happened to be extremely commercially sucessful at the same time. I agree with what you said Militant about Tupac and Prince having similarities in that regard. Two geniuses trapped in the claws of fame.

3rdeyedude said:

hip hop will never die

The sound quality on this kinda sucks. Any other clips that you recommend? Am I the only one that think it's kinda foul to see about 10,000 white kids saying the N word? This seems like some suburban-gangsta hip hop

Cinny said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I thought Busta was in the Five Percent Nation?

No, he simply hates gays.

This is true.... sadly

Busta Rhymes has officially jumped the shark.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

TonyVanDam said:

I still say the beginning of the end started with Cash Money Records, especially Lil Wayne. 50Cent and his G-Unit made it worse.

Young Lil Wayne is not as bad as this version. He actually had more substance and rapprd about real life. Remember the song Everything? It wasn't 50 Cent. Get Rich or Die Trying was actually a great album. Lil Jon is responsible for the likes of Ying Yang Twins Crime Mob Lil Scrappy D4L ect. Jons sytle of chanting minimal lyrics and beats are still running strong today. His style is responsible for the likes of Soulja Boy Chief Keef Young Thug Future Rich Homie Quan ect. not Master P Cash Money or 50 Cent.

No. But I do remember The Block Is Hot & Drop It Like's It Hot, both songs from Lil'Wayne's solo debut:

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/Thablockishot.jpg/220px-Thablockishot.jpg[/img]

It was around that time that Wayne had some potential to have 2pac's then-vacanted torch. It too bad that he fell clean off course lyrically.

And please don't let 50 or G-Unit off the hook so easily. Excuse me, but in retrospect, 50Cent was as good as the beats that Dr. Dre provided for him. As soon as 50 was getting beats from everyone else, it exposes himself as overrated. And G-Unit (especially that wackass Tony Yayo) were overhyped and nonprogressive.

But I strongly agree with you about the legecy of Lil'Jon and Atlanta Crunk subgenre.

KoolEaze said:

Many people miss Tupac and Biggie and often bring them up when they compare "real" , old school Hip Hop vs. modern, mainstream Hip Hop but, while I still like most of Tupac´s work and acknowledge Biggie´s skills as a rapper, I must say that the downfall of Hip Hop started with Puffy and the obscene materialism that he and his crew glorified so unapologetically.

Don´t get me wrong, this does not take away from Biggie´s skills and of course they released a lot of good music but still....I think P.Diddy and Suge Knight are easily among the main culprits when it comes to the demise of Hip Hop as a culture and lifestyle..they totally perverted everything that the movement used to stand for and it turned into one big messy celebration of materialism, violence, misogyny, ignorance and partying.

So, what some consider the last breath of real Hip Hop was actually, in my opinion, the beginning of the end.

And yet everybody complaining about the decay of Hip Hop still likes Diddy and his cohorts, including people who I´d consider real Hip Hop (KRS 1, Chuck D., etc.).

Also don´t forget the extremely annoying Black Eyed Peas, the once omnipresent and equally annoying Wyclef Jean and of course Lil Wayne and Lil Jon and all them fucking Lils that are out there.

And Jay-Z Dude is very smart and has some nice, energetic songs and interesting rhymes but boy is he a selfish, arrogant, thieving, same ol same ol rapper who still raps about shit he did in ´88 for the umpteenth time.

Rant over.

To be more specific, Sean Combs (with Mary J. Blige as his muse) inventing hip-hop soul was equally as much to blame. Sean took Dr.Dre's idea of making beats at the slow tempo of 95 BPM. But unlike Dre, Sean Combs having his artists to not only rap but also sing on those beats. As a tragic result, it lead to damn nearly all of black music stuck on 95 BPM for almost 2 decades!

I can forgive Dr. Dre & Warren G simply because G-funk was basically George Clinton's P-funk as a slow tempo. But I will never forgive Sean Combs because his musically formula was just tacky.

TonyVanDam said:

KoolEaze said:

Many people miss Tupac and Biggie and often bring them up when they compare "real" , old school Hip Hop vs. modern, mainstream Hip Hop but, while I still like most of Tupac´s work and acknowledge Biggie´s skills as a rapper, I must say that the downfall of Hip Hop started with Puffy and the obscene materialism that he and his crew glorified so unapologetically.

Don´t get me wrong, this does not take away from Biggie´s skills and of course they released a lot of good music but still....I think P.Diddy and Suge Knight are easily among the main culprits when it comes to the demise of Hip Hop as a culture and lifestyle..they totally perverted everything that the movement used to stand for and it turned into one big messy celebration of materialism, violence, misogyny, ignorance and partying.

So, what some consider the last breath of real Hip Hop was actually, in my opinion, the beginning of the end.

And yet everybody complaining about the decay of Hip Hop still likes Diddy and his cohorts, including people who I´d consider real Hip Hop (KRS 1, Chuck D., etc.).

Also don´t forget the extremely annoying Black Eyed Peas, the once omnipresent and equally annoying Wyclef Jean and of course Lil Wayne and Lil Jon and all them fucking Lils that are out there.

And Jay-Z Dude is very smart and has some nice, energetic songs and interesting rhymes but boy is he a selfish, arrogant, thieving, same ol same ol rapper who still raps about shit he did in ´88 for the umpteenth time.

Rant over.

To be more specific, Sean Combs (with Mary J. Blige as his muse) inventing hip-hop soul was equally as much to blame. Sean took Dr.Dre's idea of making beats at the slow tempo of 95 BPM. But unlike Dre, Sean Combs having his artists to not only rap but also sing on those beats. As a tragic result, it lead to damn nearly all of black music stuck on 95 BPM for almost 2 decades!

I can forgive Dr. Dre & Warren G simply because G-funk was basically George Clinton's P-funk as a slow tempo. But I will never forgive Sean Combs because his musically formula was just tacky.

Tony-I agree with you in your other post about Lil Wayne. I liked him back in the "Go DJ" era but now he just gets on my nerves. Needs to retire or something....that "Believe Me" song is okay. I heard it for the first time when he came out with Floyd Mayweather's entourage during his last boxing match! So, I wasn't really actively searching for Lil Wayne's music. He also has to contend with the fact that Drake swagger jacked him ala Aaron Hall/R Kelly

I like Mary J. Blige but I agree that it made R&B basically sound extinct/dead/lifelifess for the longest time. The only ones really keeping it alive are singers like Maxwell.....I can't really say that TGT is keeping R&B alive because they kinda overdo their vocals and it seems like the use the same drab beats that I hear in every R&B song these days.