I've been listening to When Doves Cry by Prince a lot lately and I always wondered why people made such a big deal about its basslessness... It just has no bass, so what?

Bass is important in funk music, disco music, but you can always record a song that doesn't have a bass line.

It all depends....variety is the spice of life. You sure as hell wouldn't want to listen to music with no basslines for the rest of your life. But fortunately there are songs with no bassline, then songs with very busy basslines and everything in between.

.

The simple way I like to think about sound frequencies in music - you got the bass that shakes your feet on the floor right up to your stomach, the mid range which thumps you in the chest up to the neck and the air range which swirls around your head.

.

Music is nothing but vibrations through the air. There's a reason why people like music loud - it physically resonates your body. Bass by far feels the best in that respect. Good bass is a good feeling.

.

Let's not forget that while "When Doves Cry" has no bassline as such, it carries alot of bass frequencies in the kick drum and toms. One could argue that those toms and the kick combined actually do play a melodic bassline....the pattern of those is grooving down there, no doubt!

Well, yeah, you could easily substitute the basslines in many pop songs with just the root note of the chord played on a bass guitar or synth and it wouldn't ruin the songs as such. In many cases the notes that follow the note played on the first beat are just flourishes. They might "follow" the chords, but aren't necessary as such.

However, if you simply took out the bass from most songs those songs would feel like they're lacking a lot compared to the ones that have bass. Even if the bassline wouldn't be a "groovy" one it certainly makes things sound fuller. A recording without enough low frequency energy is like a cookie without enough sugar (like there's been something wrong with the production line).

I have to say a lot of young and inexperienced musicians repeat the type of "the bass is the most important instrument in a band" slogans just because they think it makes them seem knowledgeable. The truth is that you can rehearse most songs even in a band context without the bassist around.

nd33 said:

It all depends....variety is the spice of life. You sure as hell wouldn't want to listen to music with no basslines for the rest of your life. But fortunately there are songs with no bassline, then songs with very busy basslines and everything in between.

.

The simple way I like to think about sound frequencies in music - you got the bass that shakes your feet on the floor right up to your stomach, the mid range which thumps you in the chest up to the neck and the air range which swirls around your head.

.

Music is nothing but vibrations through the air. There's a reason why people like music loud - it physically resonates your body. Bass by far feels the best in that respect. Good bass is a good feeling.

.

Let's not forget that while "When Doves Cry" has no bassline as such, it carries alot of bass frequencies in the kick drum and toms. One could argue that those toms and the kick combined actually do play a melodic bassline....the pattern of those is grooving down there, no doubt!

That's what Prince did argue, in fact.

[From Bass Player magazine, 1999:]

The Artist’s all-time biggest hit, "When Doves Cry" [Purple Rain], is most distinctive because of its lack of a bass line. The song had one but it was pulled at the last minute. "They were almost done editing the movie," he explains, referring to his big-screen debut in Purple Rain. "‘When Doves Cry’ was the last song to be mixed, and it just wasn’t sounding right." Prince was sitting with his head on the console listening to a rough mix when one of his singers, Jill Jones, walked in and asked what was wrong. "It was just sounding too conventional, like every other song with drums and bass and keyboards. So I said, ‘If I could have it my way it would sound like this,’ and I pulled the bass out of the mix. She said, ‘Why don’t you have it your way?’" From the beginning Prince had an inkling the tune would be better bass-free, even though he hated to see the part go. "Sometimes your brain kind of splits in two -- your ego tells you one thing, and the rest of you says something else. You have to go with what you know is right."

So bass can work against a song then? "Not necessarily. ‘When Doves Cry’ does have bass in it -- the bass is in the kick drum. It’s the same with ‘Kiss’ [Parade]: The bass is in the tone of the reverb on the kick. Bass is a lot more than that instrument over there. Bass to me means B-A-S-E. B-A-S-S is a fish."

http://princetext.tripod....ass99.html

A bassline was added to "When Doves Cry" when MC Hammer sampled it. I think it is awesome! If "When Doves Scream" is any indication of what Prince's bassline was like before he removed it, it sounded like "She Bop".

Shawy89 said:

I've been listening to When Doves Cry by Prince a lot lately and I always wondered why people made such a big deal about its basslessness... It just has no bass, so what?

Eerie as fuck in '84.

Now, no one even knows how to write a bassline and just pitches their 808s, so of course it seems like no big deal now.

Cinny said:

A bassline was added to "When Doves Cry" when MC Hammer sampled it. I think it is awesome! If "When Doves Scream" is any indication of what Prince's bassline was like before he removed it, it sounded like "She Bop".

It occurs to me that "When Doves Cry (alt. version w/ bass)" would be an interesting addition to the deluxe edition of the PR remaster.

deebee said:

Cinny said:

A bassline was added to "When Doves Cry" when MC Hammer sampled it. I think it is awesome! If "When Doves Scream" is any indication of what Prince's bassline was like before he removed it, it sounded like "She Bop".

It occurs to me that "When Doves Cry (alt. version w/ bass)" would be an interesting addition to the deluxe edition of the PR remaster.

Oh, shit yeah! While we're all fantasizing about what make it onto the PR 30th anniversary...

Wouldn't it be funny if the original bassline was played on the most fartiest synth bass ever? Novabrkr can you make a fake?

Cinny said:

deebee said:

It occurs to me that "When Doves Cry (alt. version w/ bass)" would be an interesting addition to the deluxe edition of the PR remaster.

Oh, shit yeah! While we're all fantasizing about what make it onto the PR 30th anniversary...

(Just looked at that thread in the other forum and realised that thought had occurred to everyone else before me. I'm a bit slow today...... )

Cinny said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the original bassline was played on the most fartiest synth bass ever? Novabrkr can you make a fake?

I'm honored you were thinking about me.

Yeah, I'd probably have just the right tool for it, but no, I don't want to get sued.

Shawy89 said:

I've been listening to When Doves Cry by Prince a lot lately and I always wondered why people made such a big deal about its basslessness... It just has no bass, so what?

Bass is important in funk music, disco music, but you can always record a song that doesn't have a bass line.

As a bassist myself, even I must say that there is quite a lot of recorded music - mostly rock - where the bass instruments could be removed and you wouldn't miss them Usually it's a combination of the baselines being unadventurous and the mixing emphasising the blaring midrange guitars and keyboards and 'big' drum sounds.

But, as you say, you certainly would miss the bass in Funk, R&B, Soul and Jazz music.

deebee said:

Cinny said:

Oh, shit yeah! While we're all fantasizing about what make it onto the PR 30th anniversary...

(Just looked at that thread in the other forum and realised that thought had occurred to everyone else before me. I'm a bit slow today...... )

Hell, I must be slow too 'cuz I didn't think of it till you said it,

Nice topic. Bass is very important,simple as >theres no bottom to the music

without bass.

Its one of the foundations of rhythm,and its not true that

When Doves Cry dont have bass.

Kick drum

is the bass on Whn Doves Cry.

deebee said:

nd33 said:

It all depends....variety is the spice of life. You sure as hell wouldn't want to listen to music with no basslines for the rest of your life. But fortunately there are songs with no bassline, then songs with very busy basslines and everything in between.

.

The simple way I like to think about sound frequencies in music - you got the bass that shakes your feet on the floor right up to your stomach, the mid range which thumps you in the chest up to the neck and the air range which swirls around your head.

.

Music is nothing but vibrations through the air. There's a reason why people like music loud - it physically resonates your body. Bass by far feels the best in that respect. Good bass is a good feeling.

.

Let's not forget that while "When Doves Cry" has no bassline as such, it carries alot of bass frequencies in the kick drum and toms. One could argue that those toms and the kick combined actually do play a melodic bassline....the pattern of those is grooving down there, no doubt!

That's what Prince did argue, in fact.

[From Bass Player magazine, 1999:]

The Artist’s all-time biggest hit, "When Doves Cry" [Purple Rain], is most distinctive because of its lack of a bass line. The song had one but it was pulled at the last minute. "They were almost done editing the movie," he explains, referring to his big-screen debut in Purple Rain. "‘When Doves Cry’ was the last song to be mixed, and it just wasn’t sounding right." Prince was sitting with his head on the console listening to a rough mix when one of his singers, Jill Jones, walked in and asked what was wrong. "It was just sounding too conventional, like every other song with drums and bass and keyboards. So I said, ‘If I could have it my way it would sound like this,’ and I pulled the bass out of the mix. She said, ‘Why don’t you have it your way?’" From the beginning Prince had an inkling the tune would be better bass-free, even though he hated to see the part go. "Sometimes your brain kind of splits in two -- your ego tells you one thing, and the rest of you says something else. You have to go with what you know is right."

So bass can work against a song then? "Not necessarily. ‘When Doves Cry’ does have bass in it -- the bass is in the kick drum. It’s the same with ‘Kiss’ [Parade]: The bass is in the tone of the reverb on the kick. Bass is a lot more than that instrument over there. Bass to me means B-A-S-E. B-A-S-S is a fish."

http://princetext.tripod....ass99.html

i wrote my reply before reading yours but you said it the best

Not all songs need bass, but I'll be damned if it isn't my favorite instrument in music as a whole, whether played on a guitar or a nasy, nasty synth!

Shawy89 said:

I've been listening to When Doves Cry by Prince a lot lately and I always wondered why people made such a big deal about its basslessness... It just has no bass, so what?

Bass is important in funk music, disco music, but you can always record a song that doesn't have a bass line.

Bass is also important in reggae/dancehall, rock/metal, & r&b/soul.

BASS IN YOUR FACE

Militant said:

BASS IN YOUR FACE

-

So, why is bass so much important?

-

Hearing this songs leads me to respond with one word: Groove

novabrkr said:

Cinny said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the original bassline was played on the most fartiest synth bass ever? Novabrkr can you make a fake?

I'm honored you were thinking about me.

Yeah, I'd probably have just the right tool for it, but no, I don't want to get sued.

Fair enough

It depends on the style of music. A bass is not always needed

babynoz said:

deebee said:

(Just looked at that thread in the other forum and realised that thought had occurred to everyone else before me. I'm a bit slow today...... )

Hell, I must be slow too 'cuz I didn't think of it till you said it,

I'm the fastest kid on the slow kids' table!

[Edited 4/29/14 2:26am]