Cloudbuster said:

kalelvisj said:

...but as reported in Billboard magazine a year after Elvis had died, he sold about 20 million records a week for a full year (August 77 to Aug 78).

Yeah, sure. On what fucking planet.

As for MJ fans getting dissed on the Org... it's about the only thing that props this place up.

Fucking Earth. Billboard used to (might still have) selected old issues on line, so if you want you can look it up. The issue that came out a year after Elvis died had tons of articles about Elvis in commeroration of the first annversary of his passing. It detailed how RCA had to postpone several of the leading releases in the months after his death because of demand for Elvis product. It also detailed how they had to reopen record plants that they closed and take plants that had been reduced to one shift back to around the clock pressing...All to keep up with the demand for Elvis product. RCA's profits went up 40 percent giving them their profitable year ever whch up until Presley's death had been noted by several industry sources as on of the worst times for record sales in the history of the music industry up until that time.

By the way, I am a huge fan of Michael Jackson and was incredibly hurt by his death. I didn't have to run out and buy any records when he died because I already had them (J5 and all of his solo work)...well up until Bad which just didn't do much for me. He provided the sound track to a very important time in my life, so certainly there is no dis for MJ fans being made by me. In fact, I can state that I have never dissed anyone else's musical tasts or opinions on this site ever.

I certainly never just completely disregarded what another person had to say with profanity or laughter. I have however been willing to do some research and share what I learned if someone said something I wasn't sure about.

Just because a person doesn't know or want to believe something, doesn't mean it isn't true.

mrsnet said:

Redfox said:

USA

1. Elvis

2. Beatles

3. Michael

Internationally:

1. Beatles

2. Michael

3. Elvis

lol you know that's not true. In USA the media prefers Elvis and Beatles but MJ just shut down Elvis' show in Vegas. Elvis is outta there. Internationally the Beatles > MJ..c'mon now...even Asia and Africa? lol.

show where, in Las Vegas, where people come mainly from other countries? Yes, it's an argument. in Asia and Africa, perhaps MJ, but internationally, as I understand it, is the whole world. In Europe, this is definitely the Beatles> Michael> Elvis.

For instance, in the year after MJ died he sold an astonishing 35 million records. Pretty amazing ... but as reported in Billboard magazine a year after Elvis had died, he sold about 20 million records a week for a full year (August 77 to Aug 78).

but it's really unfair. Now age of computer piracy, 90% of my friends after Jackson's death got a couple of his albums, hits collections predominantly, minority paid and downloaded legally. Now all albums barely sold.

[Edited 5/3/14 0:01am]

Sorry about the weird double posts...my pc is doing something strange with the quote boxes.

I think bringing up the fact that MJ died in the digital age is an important element to the discussion.

As far as being fair, it just is what it is. If we tak about available media and markets does it become unfair to talk about how many copies Thriller sold when MJ had a far bigger market available to him than Elvis or the Beatles could have ever imagined? In the sake of fairness we would have to take several of MJ's achievements out of the discussion.

I have no problem saying MJ is probably more popular than Elvis or the Beatles are "right now" but I don't think who was more popular in their perspective eras can really be measured.

As far as the international popularity, Elvis and the beatles both had an album released in the same week in Brittain this year. The Elvis record was just a collection of his greatest hits recycled again...and the Beatles album contained over 60 new performances recorded at the BBC. The Elvis album was far more successful. So, it would seem that in England the home of the Beatles, Elvis may have proven to be a bit more popular.

Ultimately, I don't think any of it matters. All three have amazing legacies and in 30 years when some entire new generation is arguing over who was/is the most popular, I won't be surprised at all if they still have the same three names on their list.

Redfox said:

mrsnet said:

show where, in Las Vegas, where people come mainly from other countries? Yes, it's an argument. in Asia and Africa, perhaps MJ, but internationally, as I understand it, is the whole world. In Europe, this is definitely the Beatles> Michael> Elvis.

For instance, in the year after MJ died he sold an astonishing 35 million records. Pretty amazing ... but as reported in Billboard magazine a year after Elvis had died, he sold about 20 million records a week for a full year (August 77 to Aug 78).

but it's really unfair. Now age of computer piracy, 90% of my friends after Jackson's death got a couple of his albums, hits collections predominantly, minority paid and downloaded legally. Now all albums barely sold.

kalelvisj said:

Cloudbuster said:

Yeah, sure. On what fucking planet.

As for MJ fans getting dissed on the Org... it's about the only thing that props this place up.

Fucking Earth. Billboard used to (might still have) selected old issues on line, so if you want you can look it up. The issue that came out a year after Elvis died had tons of articles about Elvis in commeroration of the first annversary of his passing. It detailed how RCA had to postpone several of the leading releases in the months after his death because of demand for Elvis product. It also detailed how they had to reopen record plants that they closed and take plants that had been reduced to one shift back to around the clock pressing...All to keep up with the demand for Elvis product. RCA's profits went up 40 percent giving them their profitable year ever whch up until Presley's death had been noted by several industry sources as on of the worst times for record sales in the history of the music industry up until that time.

By the way, I am a huge fan of Michael Jackson and was incredibly hurt by his death. I didn't have to run out and buy any records when he died because I already had them (J5 and all of his solo work)...well up until Bad which just didn't do much for me. He provided the sound track to a very important time in my life, so certainly there is no dis for MJ fans being made by me. In fact, I can state that I have never dissed anyone else's musical tasts or opinions on this site ever.

I certainly never just completely disregarded what another person had to say with profanity or laughter. I have however been willing to do some research and share what I learned if someone said something I wasn't sure about.

Just because a person doesn't know or want to believe something, doesn't mean it isn't true.

If Elvis had been selling as many as 20 million records a week for a full year he would have been dominating the top chart positions for all of that time. He clearly wasn't. No matter what Billboard magazine may have said those sales figures don't reflect chart history.

Cloudbuster said:

kalelvisj said:

Fucking Earth. Billboard used to (might still have) selected old issues on line, so if you want you can look it up. The issue that came out a year after Elvis died had tons of articles about Elvis in commeroration of the first annversary of his passing. It detailed how RCA had to postpone several of the leading releases in the months after his death because of demand for Elvis product. It also detailed how they had to reopen record plants that they closed and take plants that had been reduced to one shift back to around the clock pressing...All to keep up with the demand for Elvis product. RCA's profits went up 40 percent giving them their profitable year ever whch up until Presley's death had been noted by several industry sources as on of the worst times for record sales in the history of the music industry up until that time.

By the way, I am a huge fan of Michael Jackson and was incredibly hurt by his death. I didn't have to run out and buy any records when he died because I already had them (J5 and all of his solo work)...well up until Bad which just didn't do much for me. He provided the sound track to a very important time in my life, so certainly there is no dis for MJ fans being made by me. In fact, I can state that I have never dissed anyone else's musical tasts or opinions on this site ever.

I certainly never just completely disregarded what another person had to say with profanity or laughter. I have however been willing to do some research and share what I learned if someone said something I wasn't sure about.

Just because a person doesn't know or want to believe something, doesn't mean it isn't true.

If Elvis had been selling as many as 20 million records a week for a full year he would have been dominating the top chart positions for all of that time. He clearly wasn't. No matter what Billboard magazine may have said those sales figures don't reflect chart history.

Interesting point, but as I'm sure you will recall, even in the modern age of Soundscan and computer accounting of sales, MJ didn't take over the top 200 albums when he died and so they had to change the rules. I'm sure you can recall the fan outrage that he only took over the catalog album chart?

And as messed up as the charts system was as recently as MJ's death, they were even worse in the 70s.

The way the charts were determined in the 70's was based on a strange blend of label reports, DJ "polls" and voluntary record shop reports.

For instance, in the weeks after Elvis died his last album (Moody Blue) was probably the one with the most demand. A record plant in Indianapolis was dedicated specifically to printing that album. From August to February they pressed 4 million copies to fill customer orders of "Moody Blue" and it is still only listed as having sold 2 million copies. So, every copy in stores had already sold out in the days immediately after Elvis died and in just 6 months they sold another 4 million, and it didn't make number one on the charts or get official recgnition of the sales by the RIAA. THat particular album as been available (and rereleased with the transfer to CD) consistently since its release and it still only only certified for 2x platinum. And that is only one specific example. Elvis had over 50 diferent albums in his catalog at the time of his death and they couldn't keep any of them on the shelves for most of the year after he passed.

Had there been soundscan when Elvis died, like Michael, Elvis would have at least completely dominated the catalog sales chart when he died. Michael got "screwed" by his albums only dominating the catalog charts (until the rules were changed because of pressure by his fans, the estate and the label) and Elvis was screwed because RCA completely failed in reporting the sales accurately and by the RIAA who added limited certifications for Elvis records based on any of the albums purchased for a full year after his death. RCA/Sony openly admits that in the mad rush to get the product out the door they didnt keep up with audits or reports. It is a bit of a sidetrack...but think about how much RCA pocketed in unpaid royalties to Elvis and to the song writers on all of his albums just in that year alone...No wonder they didnt report it.

Sorry, for being so "Elvisy" in the last few posts...just addressing specific comments, etc. As I have stated numerous times, huge fans of all three.

I can also go on and on about the impact the Beatles had on the charts in 1964 (the whole top five...freaking hell) or how in the first year after its release before it finally really exploded I was telling friends and family that MJ was going to be as big as Elvis once everyone really listened to it. Of course, I had been pretty much saying that since Off the Wall came out and still find it to be the superior album. It was awesome because once he did Billie Jean on the motown 25 special, I got to start hearing people tell me I was right.

So, sorry, if I seem a bit focused but if you want to talk about MJ/his fans getting beat up on this forum, it is nothing like what Elvis/his fans face on here anytime he comes up....and quite often it is the MJ fans leading those attacks.

Perhaps there is an interesting conversation to be had in why it seems more important for some people to tear down one artist or the other than to just celebrate the artists they do appreciate?

Okay, Elvis sold one hundred million albums every five weeks for a full year. In an alternate universe.

Cloudbuster said:

Psy is more popular than all of them. They don't have almost 2 billion views for a video.

MickyDolenz said:

Psy is more popular than all of them. They don't have almost 2 billion views for a video.

Who?

JoeBala said:

Who?

[Edited 5/3/14 13:11pm]

kalelvisj said:

So, clearly if you don't believe it, it can't be true?

Okay, Elvis sold one hundred million every five weeks for a full year.

Cloudbuster said:

MickyDolenz said:

Dude wearing the bow tie appears to be missing his

.

[Edited 5/3/14 16:24pm]

Cloudbuster said:

Dude wearing the bow tie appears to missing his

MickyDolenz said:

Oh I like them.

JoeBala said:

MickyDolenz said:

Oh I like them.

John.

MickyDolenz said:

But there's the "white" album! Possessing a cover so spare you'd assume there'd be no clue. Yet there is!

"Beatles" font is different from the "The", it's capitalized. Mirroring the center of the words the message revealed happens to be...



"HE BE ICE". Also giving the appearance of III concluding with a 3 for three Beatles!

John and George are dead.

#9 #9 #9 #9 #9 #9

Cloudbuster said:

But there's the "white" album! Possessing a cover so spare you'd assume there'd be no clue. Yet there is!

"Beatles" font is different from the "The", it's capitalized. Mirroring the center of the words the message revealed happens to be...



"HE BE ICE". Also giving the appearance of III concluding with a 3 for three Beatles!

John and George are dead.

#9 #9 #9 #9 #9 #9

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

Clair: Cliff, why do we have four children?
Cliff: Because we did not want five

MickyDolenz said:

His nose/chin

MotownSubdivision said:

Moonbeam said:

Tough to say, as I wasn't around for the Elvis and Beatles craziness. From today's perspective, I'd say it's between The Beatles and MJ. Elvis has lost some ground over the years.

Michael is by far my favorite of the 3, with Elvis coming next and The Beatles prominently featured on my list of most disliked artists.

I'm a Generation Y guy but I'm feel like Elvis' star cooled off back in the 70s when the pool of countless more talented and interesting artists began taking over the music scene.

Why the hate for The Beatles?

I just can't stand their music. Doesn't take away from the fact that they matter a whole lot to a whole lot of people. Just not for me.