lastdecember said:

I'd add that Barry Gibb is possibly the best solo pop writer of songs for the last 60 years at least

Not to take anything away from Rob and Mo but I hear you.

I'll add a few more:

Whitney was one of the greatest vocalists (pop, soul, gospel, etc.) of the last 30 years and her death signaled the end of a special era in music.

The original Isley Brothers (Ron, Rudy and Kelly) were the First Family of Soul, not the Stairsteps or the Jackson 5.

Something/Anything? by Todd Rundgren was the greatest double album release ever.

Funkadelic's Westbound recordings > Warner Bros recordings

R. Kelly was the most overrated R&B artist of the '90s and beyond.

Aretha Franklin's vocals as a child > Stevie Wonder's and MJ's vocals as children

"Human Nature" is the best song MJ ever did.

Motown had more grit in their recordings than anyone gives them credit for (especially the Soul recordings).

The Kinks and The Who were better representatives of British rock versus the Rolling Stones and the Beatles.

The Stones' material got basic after Mick Taylor's departure.

The L.A., released mix of What's Going On > the original Detroit mix

INXS and Def Leppard were the best rock bands of the 1980s.

lastdecember said:

And a little something to add to the whole Grunge killed hair metal and this killed that. Hey guess what every FAD dies off, when was the last time you saw Eddie Vedder rocking a flannel shirt, or when was the last time Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots were all over the place? Everything dies off. RB bands died a serious death when Next and 112 and all the little groups came out and the guys were singing with their shirts off and RB sold its SOUL. Everything dies off, ask Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson about the "teen movement" now. When decades change people get swept away, it happens some hold on and stay in the mix, some take drugs or blow themselves away and become more famous. Nothing kills anything off, times f'ing change, the only reason PEARL JAM still are a big selling band is that they grew up and "let it go", the only reason Dave Grohl is bigger now than then, is because he grew, you think either could still be doing "those down tracks now" without being laughed at. NO WAY. Just like Elvis killed off the Frank Sinatra era, and then Beatles killed off Elvis, then singer songwriters came in, then disco, then punk, then new wave, then freestyle, then hair metal, then power ballads, then gangsta rap, then techno, etc....you get the point it all comes and goes, when was the last time Stock Aiken and Waterman busted out a beat? case closed

And while on the subject this has to STOP

Everytime someone asks where are the RB bands , do not reply MINT CONDITION, please answer with a RB band from this century.

Very true, I'm not gonna lie, I probably would be the one replying Mint Condition lol! To be fair, I think people mention them alot because they are technically the last R&B band that does not get enough credit.I agree with this entire post though.

[Edited 12/23/13 21:59pm]

Timmy84 said:

I'll add a few more:

Whitney was one of the greatest vocalists (pop, soul, gospel, etc.) of the last 30 years and her death signaled the end of a special era in music.

The original Isley Brothers (Ron, Rudy and Kelly) were the First Family of Soul, not the Stairsteps or the Jackson 5.

Something/Anything? by Todd Rundgren was the greatest double album release ever.

Funkadelic's Westbound recordings > Warner Bros recordings

R. Kelly was the most overrated R&B artist of the '90s and beyond. True That.

Wait til VainAndy see's that Whitney comment. I can't wait I'm so excited.

Timmy84 said:

Something/Anything? by Todd Rundgren was the greatest double album release ever.


"Human Nature" is the best song MJ ever did.

It's a debatable whether Rundgren's double album is better than the Smashing Pumpkins' own

double album. But Something/Anything is better than Songs in the Key of Life?


(feelings had)

I agree with you on "Human Nature" though. It's my favorite MJ vocal performance.

mjscarousal said:

1. 1. If Pop stars do not want to be seen as anything more than just a “pop star” then they need to stop calling themselves feminist, social activists, humanitarians, politian’s etc. You can't have it both ways. You can't go shake hands with Obama and say you care about social issues but then don't want to put your money where your mouth is when it really counts. If you call yourself a feminist that means you want to be viewed as such. That means that the public has every right to question whether or not you represent “feminism”
2. 2. James Brown is underrated as a songwriter
3. 3. Justin Timberlake is what Elvis Presley was for his generation ( a white man that is glorified for doing manufactured imitations of what R&B/soul artists and African American entertainers have been doing since the beginning of time)
4. 4. Madonna may be a bitch but she isn’t phony or fake. She doesn’t care what you think about her and never has.
5. 5. Michael Jackson is underrated as a songwriter and as a vocalist.
6. 6. It is becoming a crime to be opinionated in music
7. 7. Sly& the Family Stone are underrated
8. 8. The Carpenters are underrated (Karen Carpenter especially)
9. 9. The Nicholas Brothers were better dancers than Gene Kelly and Fred Astair.
10. 10. Jackie Wilson is underrated as a vocalist
11. 11. Calling everybody that dislikes an artist “haters” is tired and old. Come up with more mature reasons for why you disagree
12. 12. All artists are products because they are trying to sell music (thats understood) but there is a difference between an artist that is actually involved in their music/creativity versus a singer who sells perfume and things unrelated to music. In other words, I am not going to call Marvin Gaye the same as Miley Cyrus because he is not and I think that is rather insulting.
13. 13. It’s a dead horse but most of the popular music that is out now will not be remembered in the next 50 years.
14. 14. I am not a Brittany Spears fan but she always seemed and seems sincere and never takes herself too seriously which is why I don’t mind her.
15. 15. Janet Jackson is criminally underrated. I think she has had the same level of influence Madonna has had on today’s female pop stars.
16. 16. Rappers like Krs One, Rakim, Chuck D, Ice Cube etc deserve WAY more accolades for pioneering hip hop.
17. 17. Janelle Monae is more talented than all the pop girls that are out today. She has an interesting personality and makes interesting music but since she doesn't pose half naked she is not as popular
18. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.
19. 19. Billboards, Grammys, AMA's, MTV awards etc have been trash for the last 20 years. Why do music listeners still take them seriously? Why do music listeners expect for them to be fair? They have been giving out awards based on popularity and not quality for over the last 20 years, this ain't changing no time soon!
20. 20. Its been a bullshit cliche to say that everything after Michael's work with Quincy has been lack luster but the only people that say that are the people who have not bothered to listened to Dangerous, HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor because these three albums are more eclectic musically and lyrically to BAD and Thriller.
21. 21. The Rolling Stones are better than The Beatles
22. 22. Jay Z is wack and if Biggie/Pac were still alive today he would not be as popular.
23. 23. People need to stop comparing these new generation artists to legendary artists, just stop it!
24. 24. Stop throwing up sales and awards like it means something. It doesn’t mean anything if the music is shit.

This is a pretty good list, in that it posits unpopular music opinions and asks the reader to engage

with his/her own presumptions about what is "good music." But I gotta say that number five is

completely unfounded.

Michael Jackson is the King of Pop; how can he be underrated as a vocalist and songwriter if he's

been anointed the aforementioned?!

duccichucka said:

Michael Jackson is the King of Pop; how can he be underrated as a vocalist and songwriter if he's

been anointed the aforementioned?!

Anointed by many of his fans after a speech by Liz Taylor.

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

No heart, no soul, nothing important to say. Few could resist calling him the 'self-proclaimed' KOP. One of myriad put downs. Until he died of course.

I wouldn't say Prince has been 'bloody awful' since SOTT, more like hit & miss.

Cloudbuster said:

duccichucka said:

Michael Jackson is the King of Pop; how can he be underrated as a vocalist and songwriter if he's

been anointed the aforementioned?!

Anointed by many of his fans after a speech by Liz Taylor.

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

No heart, no soul, nothing important to say. Few could resist calling him the 'self-proclaimed' KOP. One of myriad put downs. Until he died of course.

This.

Glad to see your back and thanks! Once Michael started caring about social issues and began to use his music to influence others to do the same he became a threat.

mjscarousal said:

This.

Glad to see your back and thanks! Once Michael started caring about social issues and began to use his music to influence others to do the same he became a threat.

Thanks, hope you're well.

Yeah, his later socially conscious work was repeatedly trashed or ignored. It was as if he was a holding a mirror up to society and saying "You think I'm weird? Take a fuckin' good long look at yourselves." Often trashed by the same folk who dismissed his earlier work as shallow.

Cloudbuster said:

duccichucka said:

Michael Jackson is the King of Pop; how can he be underrated as a vocalist and songwriter if he's

been anointed the aforementioned?!

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

This is simply not the case, Cloudbuster. Below are two reviews that mention the strength

of Jackson's singing and songwriting abilities from the early '80s:

NY Times 1982 review of Thriller

Rolling Stones 1983 review of Thriller

Michael Jackson was never an underrated singer or songwriter; to assert as much is just

counterintuitive to the otherwordly success he had as a recording artist.

mjscarousal said:

Cloudbuster said:

Anointed by many of his fans after a speech by Liz Taylor.

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

No heart, no soul, nothing important to say. Few could resist calling him the 'self-proclaimed' KOP. One of myriad put downs. Until he died of course.

This.

Glad to see your back and thanks! Once Michael started caring about social issues and began to use his music to influence others to do the same he became a threat.

God, take his balls out of your mouth, will you? They must stink, he's been dead for years.

duccichucka said:

Cloudbuster said:

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

This is simply not the case, Cloudbuster. Below are two reviews that mention the strength

of Jackson's singing and songwriting abilities from the early '80s:

NY Times 1982 review of Thriller

Rolling Stones 1983 review of Thriller

Michael Jackson was never an underrated singer or songwriter; to assert as much is just

counterintuitive to the otherwordly success he had as a recording artist.

If anything he was overrated as a songwriter. His tremendous dancing and videos won him so many fans and inevitably that army of fans were not well equipped to put him in proper context. He was a brilliant showman with a great voice. Some of the material was great (some written by him, some written by others), but there are at least 80 or 90 less glamorous, less well-known songwriters from the second half of the 20th century who were better than him in that area.

midnightmover said:

mjscarousal said:

This.

Glad to see your back and thanks! Once Michael started caring about social issues and began to use his music to influence others to do the same he became a threat.

God, take his balls out of your mouth, will you? They must stink, he's been dead for years.

Ah, yes! You most know something about that... he's dead for years and yet you're still on his ass fuming at the mouth that his legacy remains intact and people don't give a toss what losers like you think. What a pathetic little being you are.

[Edited 12/25/13 12:28pm]

PatrickS77 said:

midnightmover said:

God, take his balls out of your mouth, will you? They must stink, he's been dead for years.

Ah, yes! You most know something about that... he's dead for years and yet you're still on his ass fuming at the mouth that his legacy remains intact and people don't give a toss what losers like you think. What a pathetic little being you are.

[Edited 12/25/13 12:28pm]

All you have to do is read the post I was responding to and if you have a brain you'll see why I was critical. It was absolute nonsense and sadly, it's pretty typical around here. There is no objectivity when it comes to judging the man in your avatar. It's like a religious cult. Just look at the heated emotion in your own post. Emotion clouds judgement. You guys have never looked beyond your sentimental emotions.

[Edited 12/25/13 14:25pm]

[Edited 12/25/13 22:23pm]

mjscarousal said:

1. 1. If Pop stars do not want to be seen as anything more than just a “pop star” then they need to stop calling themselves feminist, social activists, humanitarians, politian’s etc. You can't have it both ways. You can't go shake hands with Obama and say you care about social issues but then don't want to put your money where your mouth is when it really counts. If you call yourself a feminist that means you want to be viewed as such. That means that the public has every right to question whether or not you represent “feminism”
2. 2. James Brown is underrated as a songwriter
3. 3. Justin Timberlake is what Elvis Presley was for his generation ( a white man that is glorified for doing manufactured imitations of what R&B/soul artists and African American entertainers have been doing since the beginning of time)
4. 4. Madonna may be a bitch but she isn’t phony or fake. She doesn’t care what you think about her and never has.
5. 5. Michael Jackson is underrated as a songwriter and as a vocalist.
6. 6. It is becoming a crime to be opinionated in music
7. 7. Sly& the Family Stone are underrated
8. 8. The Carpenters are underrated (Karen Carpenter especially)
9. 9. The Nicholas Brothers were better dancers than Gene Kelly and Fred Astair.
10. 10. Jackie Wilson is underrated as a vocalist
11. 11. Calling everybody that dislikes an artist “haters” is tired and old. Come up with more mature reasons for why you disagree
12. 12. All artists are products because they are trying to sell music (thats understood) but there is a difference between an artist that is actually involved in their music/creativity versus a singer who sells perfume and things unrelated to music. In other words, I am not going to call Marvin Gaye the same as Miley Cyrus because he is not and I think that is rather insulting.
13. 13. It’s a dead horse but most of the popular music that is out now will not be remembered in the next 50 years.
14. 14. I am not a Brittany Spears fan but she always seemed and seems sincere and never takes herself too seriously which is why I don’t mind her.
15. 15. Janet Jackson is criminally underrated. I think she has had the same level of influence Madonna has had on today’s female pop stars.
16. 16. Rappers like Krs One, Rakim, Chuck D, Ice Cube etc deserve WAY more accolades for pioneering hip hop.
17. 17. Janelle Monae is more talented than all the pop girls that are out today. She has an interesting personality and makes interesting music but since she doesn't pose half naked she is not as popular
18. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.
19. 19. Billboards, Grammys, AMA's, MTV awards etc have been trash for the last 20 years. Why do music listeners still take them seriously? Why do music listeners expect for them to be fair? They have been giving out awards based on popularity and not quality for over the last 20 years, this ain't changing no time soon!
20. 20. Its been a bullshit cliche to say that everything after Michael's work with Quincy has been lack luster but the only people that say that are the people who have not bothered to listened to Dangerous, HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor because these three albums are more eclectic musically and lyrically to BAD and Thriller.
21. 21. The Rolling Stones are better than The Beatles
22. 22. Jay Z is wack and if Biggie/Pac were still alive today he would not be as popular.
23. 23. People need to stop comparing these new generation artists to legendary artists, just stop it!
24. 24. Stop throwing up sales and awards like it means something. It doesn’t mean anything if the music is shit.

This post is so in sync with my feelings.

dseann said:

novabrkr said:

You are are comparing two different things that can't be compared in that manner.

Prince's sexuality and his history of sexual partners is his own business. People just have to take his own word for it. You should be also aware that people use the word "gay" in a derogatory manner. Many people find it hard to take that so many women find him attractive when the society tells them that the ideal of what a man's appearance should be like is completely different. There are other reasons for people to insist that he is gay, all of which I think stem from a personal psychological need, but that's all based on something people have no proof of.

Feminism is an ideology. That's what the "ism" at the end denotes. We can, and should, make judgements on a person's actions and evaluate whether or not they fit the ideology he / she claims to support. In Beyonce's case, she has used her sexual attractiveness in a manner that many, if not the vast majority, of feminists condemn. She is not considered a positive role model for young women in that regard. For that matter, her understanding of feminism, its history and its aims, is so naive that nobody should take her seriously in that regard.

I've stated in this thread already that I don't find her attractive(especially without her wigs/weaves) and that her voice isn't that impressive. But I don't see how you could argue with her being a feminist. What in her actions has she done to contradict her beliefs that women are equal to men? How has she shown her naivety in her understanding of the ideology of feminism? Please enlighten me.

If you don't understand the difference between ignorant people calling Prince "gay" and people that actually understand what feminism is criticizing Beyonce for her poor understanding of what feminism is about there's no sense whatsoever in continuing any kind of a debate with you.

Sorry Timmy, but for me, 'Human Nature' takes a back seat to 'I Can't Help It' & 'Wings of My Love'.

novabrkr said:

Feminism is an ideology. That's what the "ism" at the end denotes. We can, and should, make judgements on a person's actions and evaluate whether or not they fit the ideology he / she claims to support. In Beyonce's case, she has used her sexual attractiveness in a manner that many, if not the vast majority, of feminists condemn. She is not considered a positive role model for young women in that regard. For that matter, her understanding of feminism, its history and its aims, is so naive that nobody should take her seriously in that regard.

Everyone's ideology is different first of all. So you REALLY shouldn't try speaking for the "vast majority" of feminists.

Again, feminism is about viewing men and women as equals, and if niggas men can go around shirtless and/or bulging, yelling about nutting in bitches over beats, and on, and on, a woman should certainly be able to dress in a way that makes her feel sexy and talk about her sexual fantasies and desires the same way. THAT IS WHAT THE FUCK FEMINISM IS.

mjscarousal said:

1. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.

Oh, probably because Beyoncé is 7-10 years older than them and she is married with a child. Therefore when she speaks about having and enjoying sex and accompanies that with footage of her with her husband and explicitly feminist statements ("We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are. Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes."), it is seen as setting an example to people with basic critical thinking skills or, at the very least, a working brain.

[Edited 12/26/13 21:11pm]

katamari said:

novabrkr said:

Feminism is an ideology. That's what the "ism" at the end denotes. We can, and should, make judgements on a person's actions and evaluate whether or not they fit the ideology he / she claims to support. In Beyonce's case, she has used her sexual attractiveness in a manner that many, if not the vast majority, of feminists condemn. She is not considered a positive role model for young women in that regard. For that matter, her understanding of feminism, its history and its aims, is so naive that nobody should take her seriously in that regard.

Everyone's ideology is different first of all. So you REALLY shouldn't try speaking for the "vast majority" of feminists.

Again, feminism is about viewing men and women as equals, and if niggas men can go around shirtless and/or bulging, yelling about nutting in bitches over beats, and on, and on, a woman should certainly be able to dress in a way that makes her feel sexy and talk about her sexual fantasies and desires the same way. THAT IS WHAT THE FUCK FEMINISM IS.

mjscarousal said:

1. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.

Oh, probably because Beyoncé is 7-10 years older than them and she is married with a child. Therefore when she speaks about having and enjoying sex and accompanies that with footage of her with her husband and explicitly feminist statements ("We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are. Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes."), it is seen as setting an example to people with basic critical thinking skills or, at the very least, a working brain.

[Edited 12/26/13 21:11pm]

I hear where you are coming from, but the playing fields are not equal, so doing the same thing men do to women for example; exploitation of woman for sexual objectifying, is it okay when Madonna does it to her self instead of a man telling her to do it? Madonna herself said that she would do things differently with the knowledge she has now. She said she still would be sexual but it would be a more positive sexual representation. (To paraphrase).

what's the big deal with george michael? i never understood that one

duccichucka said:

Cloudbuster said:

Post Thriller most "serious" (lol) music critics dismissed him as a lightweight song and dance circus entertainer.

This is simply not the case, Cloudbuster. Below are two reviews that mention the strength

of Jackson's singing and songwriting abilities from the early '80s:

NY Times 1982 review of Thriller

Rolling Stones 1983 review of Thriller

Michael Jackson was never an underrated singer or songwriter; to assert as much is just

counterintuitive to the otherwordly success he had as a recording artist.

I said post Thriller. And sure, there were some who could seperate the music from the eccentricities but the hostility seemed to increase with each passing year, reviewing the man and not the work.

kewlschool said:

Stymie said:

Stymie said:

Who in the fuck is saying beyonce is a feminist? Gtfoohwtbs

uPtoWnNY said:

Sorry Timmy, but for me, 'Human Nature' takes a back seat to 'I Can't Help It' & 'Wings of My Love'.

I don't know about Wings but I see your I Can't Help It lol

My unpopular music opinions (as always, your mileage may vary)

-3121 is the best pop album of Prince's career

-Fergie was not the reason the Black Eyed Peas fell off because Elephunk is a fantastic album

-KRS-One was so far ahead of his time it actually frightens me

-Lady Gaga is not an avant garde performance artist. She is a pop star who wears funny clothes

-Madonna should have won an Oscar for Evita

-Nikka Costa is tragically underrated.

-If Kurt Cobain was alive today Nirvana would be considered no more musically important than any other band of their ilk

-Britney Spears is now too old to be Britney Spears