novabrkr said:

Oh, it's definitely "easy listening". The thing with Todd Rundgren is that he has an amazing talent for creating pop melodies, but he just grew tired of it and started doing all kinds of weird stuff. After his most accessible album, Something / Anything?, he didn't really make another record that you could have considered "chart material" (except maybe The Hermit Of Mink Hollow -album). There were plenty of great pop melodies sprinkled across the different releases, but the albums were very sprawling, artsy and, some would say, incoherent after his first radio hits.

In all fairness, the biggest obstacle to his commercial success as a solo artist was probably that he had signed to a fairly small label that just couldn't handle the promotion properly.

Ummm, i admit, i'm a bit "scared off" now. I've been very lazy musically for awhile now as it relates to "cold contacts" (meaning picking up a cd by someone i have limite or no previous exposure to). i'm glad to know Todd is an artist in the very truest sense of the word. But for now, i'm content to let him be the best artist i've never (really) heard of.

I don't care how many copies 'Thriller' sold, for me, it's several notches below 'Off the Wall', Michael's best.

uPtoWnNY said:

I don't care how many copies 'Thriller' sold, for me, it's several notches below 'Off the Wall', Michael's best.

Timmy84 said:

Thanks for the shout out, Guns.

I got some unpopular opinions too (least from posting here):

1.) Elvis didn't steal anything. He covered a lot of his favorite music (which was a mixture of everything) and emulated both black and white artists.

2.) The Beatles' early success was manufactured by Brian Epstein. They were the original boy band of their time.

3.) Stop arguing about MTV, VH-1 and BET when you have VH-1 Classics, Centric and Fuse.

4.) Kanye is not suffering from mother withdrawal. He's suffering from egomania cancer.

5.) There was more than one king of rock and roll. Elvis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard just happened to be the first generation kings.

6.) Neither of them created rock and roll or invented it.

7.) Todd Rundgren is up there as one of the greatest musicians of all time. And doesn't get even half the credit he deserves for being that and even more.

8.) Nirvana was the truth. But so were Alice in Chains and Soundgarden.

9.) Lil B is not actually that bad of a rapper (yes I said it!)

10.) Ike Turner, despite of his personal baggage, was a musical mastermind.

11.) ZZ Top, Scarface and DJ Screw made Houston one of the musical capitals of the world (that's not often recognized) even before Beyonce and Destiny's Child.

12.) UGK is one of the greatest rap duos of all time.

13.) Some of Run-D.M.C.'s music was too basic.

14.) Aerosmith was the U.S. answer to Led Zeppelin.

15.) Marvin Gaye was the most diverse Motown artist. Yes, even more than the Supremes and Stevie Wonder.

16.) I don't consider the Jackson 5 part of the "classic era" Motown. That era ended with "I Heard It Through the Grapevine" in 1968.

17.) Captain Beefheart was a genius.

18.) I love Lupe Fiasco's politics as much as I do his music. (Yes I dig him so it's not sarcastic)

19.) Pete Burns is one hell of a singer.

20.) Billy Squier, not James Brown, made hip-hop what it is with "The Big Beat".

Timmy, I got some problems with your list, primarily numbers one (about Elvis) and two (about

the Beatles):


1. This is historical revisionism. Elvis was a thief - "emulators" don't become "kings" without some

thievery involved.

2. Ignores the quality of musicianship of the Beatles and totally ignores the history of the Beatles

as well, who spent two years toiling away and perfecting their craft in Germany before making

it big. No fucking boy band has their level of artistry and no boy band puts in two years on the

road, playing small clubs. The Beatles' early success was not manufactured by Brian Epstein. It

was established by talent, chemistry, hard work, and a bit of luck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_in_Hamburg

Co-sign on Guns' point about grunge. Thank goodness for Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, etc. The music was light-years ahead of those 'hair bands'.

RodeoSchro said:

1. Nirvana did not kill hair metal. Nivrvana killed THE WHOLE FREAKING ROCK AND ROLL GENRE. You youngsters need to get off the hippie lettuce, listen to some old stuff, and then go punch out all surviving members of Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, etc. for begetting the likes of Fall Out Boy and Green Day and every other stupid rock band that thinks crunching E chords for three minutes while singing about how much life sucks is rock and roll. (Was that grouchy enough? I can grouch it up some more if need be.)

End. Of. Freaking. List.

Not sure if anyone else pointed this out but Green Day debuted in 1989 shortly after Nirvana and before Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains.

lazycrockett said:

Madonna is a talentless whore.

Eh, she seems pretty good at marketing herself. That could be considered a talent.

rialb said:

RodeoSchro said:

1. Nirvana did not kill hair metal. Nivrvana killed THE WHOLE FREAKING ROCK AND ROLL GENRE. You youngsters need to get off the hippie lettuce, listen to some old stuff, and then go punch out all surviving members of Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, etc. for begetting the likes of Fall Out Boy and Green Day and every other stupid rock band that thinks crunching E chords for three minutes while singing about how much life sucks is rock and roll. (Was that grouchy enough? I can grouch it up some more if need be.)

End. Of. Freaking. List.

Not sure if anyone else pointed this out but Green Day debuted in 1989 shortly after Nirvana and before Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains.

TRUTH! Also, good to see you again.

Ahh so much to add to this and im sure alot will find offensive oh well

In No order

Prince's albums up to the "1999" album were OK, not masterpieces, and most of y'all bought them after 1999 came out.

If you werent an actual kid growing up in a decade, or alive for a decade U ARE NOT an expert on what happend in that decade, EXAMPLE your posts about 60's music or 80's music sucking or whatever is not serious if you were born in 1991.

Also spare me comments on "moments in music" if you didnt live through them, so dont compare the Beatles "mania" to what Nsync or Beyone or Britney has.

Digital music sucks plain and simple

Beats headphones are a waste if you are using them with an iPod, the sound sucks regardless

John Mellencamp is NOT the poor mans Springsteen he is a better overall artist deal with it

The Rolling Stones have made alot of shitty albums the last 25 years

ARTISTS do make great albums long after their hit days case closed and grow up.

If artists can deal with "music not selling" and "not getting on shitty radio" why cant anyone ON THIS FORUM wake up and accept that.

The term "career over" is OVER, saying that about someone who still can do music and not have to work in mcdonalds has a career, what do you do.

STOP talking about numbers and sales as if they matter, OH MY GOD jesus christ let it go already.

Coldplay owes so much to a-ha for most of their first two albums

There is a world outside the USA especially for music, get over it.

This whole thing with Beyonce the last week is boring, and then the Walmart give card shit everyone is getting a hard on because she did that. When she takes homeless off the street and does half of her concerts for free or charity call me.

much much more coming

uPtoWnNY said:

I don't care how many copies 'Thriller' sold, for me, it's several notches below 'Off the Wall', Michael's best.

OTW is by far Michael's best album.

It's like comparing Purple Rain to 1999. In both cases, the uderdog is the champion.

1. After Sign O' The Times, Prince has been bloody awful. But I respect him as an

artist for never making Purple Rain II.

2. The Beatles are the sole reason why anybody from the 60s onwards wants to make

a pop album as a cohesive artistic statement: you better recognize.

3. Michael Jackson, who may have been one of the greatest entertainers of all time,

became a one-trick pony after Bad - and Off The Wall is better than Thriller. How

many times was MJ gonna bust out the same dance moves, make the same

bloated music video and put on the same stage show? His desire to chase after the

same success he found with Thriller as opposed to evolving as an artist, created this

one-trick pony context, sadly.

4. Van Hunt, at this moment, is a better songwriter than Prince. Popular and What Were

You Hoping For? may prove to be better than Prince's two best records.

5. Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Lay Your Head On My Pillow," which features pedal steel guitar,

is genius. In fact, because he' responsible for the three greatest R&B songs of our times:

"Soul Sista," "Untitled (How Does It Feel?)" and "Wild Child," Raphael Saadiq is also, at

this moment, a better songwriter than Prince.

6. Punk, as a musical artform, is vapid.

7. Hip hop is now making similar claims to vapidity.

8. Led Zeppelin is overrated and Jimmy Page is a plagiarizing hack of a songwriter.

9. Sammy Hagar > David Lee Roth

10. Janet Jackson's discography is more interesting than Michael's.

11. Missy Elliott is the only female MC who should be allowed to make records.

12. Voodoo is completely overrated.

13. News flash: Terence Trent D'Arby absolutely sucks. Deon Estus' one hit is better

than everything D'Arby ever recorded.

14. "Moves Like Jagger" proves Satan is still accepting deals even in the age of the

internet.

15. Beyonce is not fine and actually, Michelle was the best singer in Destiny's Child.

16. Nas > Biggie and 'Pac

17. Miley Cyrus does not bother me. I never knew her as Hannah Montana so I

actually dig her ratchet act; it's just futher proof that certain groups of people in

this country will appropriate anything associated with Black America, good or bad.

18. Good music is not dead; you are just getting old. The music of the 60s, 70s, 80s,

90s, and the 00s is not inherently better than the music of today. To make that claim

is fucking insane and groundless. Each decade has been proliferated with crap music.

19. Justin Timberlake is the only pop star who can make any efforts to claim the void

left by MJ's death. I didn't say he does. I said he can make an "effort to claim." I

am giving him my permission to show me what he can do. Robin Thicke, Usher, and

Justin Bieber can all have a seat.

20. Lenny Kravitz needs to be taken more seriously in rock.

duccichucka said:

5. Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Lay Your Head On My Pillow," which features pedal steel guitar,

is genius. In fact, because he' responsible for the three greatest R&B songs of our times:

"Soul Sista," "Untitled (How Does It Feel?)" and "Wild Child," Raphael Saadiq is also, at

this moment, a better songwriter than Prince.

In the interest of accuracy Raphael worked with co-writers on all of those songs (and he "only" produced "Soul Sista," he received no writers credit). You said "he' responsible" but it would be more accurate to say that he is partially responsible, especially in the case of the two songs where other artists actually performed the songs.

I don't know much about Raphael Saadiq but I'm not just nitpicking. He is likely a much more collaborative artist than Prince is. With a Prince production you basically get a Prince record with someone else singing. With Raphael I have to assume that he is much more sympathetic to the artists he produces and makes an attempt to tailor songs to fit their style which probably means that his collaborators deserve some credit too.

duccichucka said:

1. After Sign O' The Times, Prince has been bloody awful. But I respect him as an

artist for never making Purple Rain II.

2. The Beatles are the sole reason why anybody from the 60s onwards wants to make

a pop album as a cohesive artistic statement: you better recognize.

3. Michael Jackson, who may have been one of the greatest entertainers of all time,

became a one-trick pony after Bad - and Off The Wall is better than Thriller. How

many times was MJ gonna bust out the same dance moves, make the same

bloated music video and put on the same stage show? His desire to chase after the

same success he found with Thriller as opposed to evolving as an artist, created this

one-trick pony context, sadly.

4. Van Hunt, at this moment, is a better songwriter than Prince. Popular and What Were

You Hoping For? may prove to be better than Prince's two best records.

5. Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Lay Your Head On My Pillow," which features pedal steel guitar,

is genius. In fact, because he' responsible for the three greatest R&B songs of our times:

"Soul Sista," "Untitled (How Does It Feel?)" and "Wild Child," Raphael Saadiq is also, at

this moment, a better songwriter than Prince.

6. Punk, as a musical artform, is vapid.

7. Hip hop is now making similar claims to vapidity.

8. Led Zeppelin is overrated and Jimmy Page is a plagiarizing hack of a songwriter.

9. Sammy Hagar > David Lee Roth

10. Janet Jackson's discography is more interesting than Michael's.

11. Missy Elliott is the only female MC who should be allowed to make records.

12. Voodoo is completely overrated.

13. News flash: Terence Trent D'Arby absolutely sucks. Deon Estus' one hit is better

than everything D'Arby ever recorded.

14. "Moves Like Jagger" proves Satan is still accepting deals even in the age of the

internet.

15. Beyonce is not fine and actually, Michelle was the best singer in Destiny's Child.

16. Nas > Biggie and 'Pac

17. Miley Cyrus does not bother me. I never knew her as Hannah Montana so I

actually dig her ratchet act; it's just futher proof that certain groups of people in

this country will appropriate anything associated with Black America, good or bad.

18. Good music is not dead; you are just getting old. The music of the 60s, 70s, 80s,

90s, and the 00s is not inherently better than the music of today. To make that claim

is fucking insane and groundless. Each decade has been proliferated with crap music.

19. Justin Timberlake is the only pop star who can make any efforts to claim the void

left by MJ's death. I didn't say he does. I said he can make an "effort to claim." I

am giving him my permission to show me what he can do. Robin Thicke, Usher, and

Justin Bieber can all have a seat.

20. Lenny Kravitz needs to be taken more seriously in rock.

I gotta say you pretty much nailed what the problem with MJ was after thriller.

duccichucka said:

11. Missy Elliott is the only female MC who should be allowed to make records.


19. Justin Timberlake is the only pop star who can make any efforts to claim the void

left by MJ's death. I didn't say he does. I said he can make an "effort to claim." I

am giving him my permission to show me what he can do. Robin Thicke, Usher, and

Justin Bieber can all have a seat.

11. Actually I like Nikki Minaj ecept when she tries to go "hard core". On a pop beat, she's unstoppable.

12. Usher has been sitting for years and I honestly don't know a Bieber song nor do I want to.

duccichucka said:

1. After Sign O' The Times, Prince has been bloody awful. But I respect him as an

artist for never making Purple Rain II.

2. The Beatles are the sole reason why anybody from the 60s onwards wants to make

a pop album as a cohesive artistic statement: you better recognize.

3. Michael Jackson, who may have been one of the greatest entertainers of all time,

became a one-trick pony after Bad - and Off The Wall is better than Thriller. How

many times was MJ gonna bust out the same dance moves, make the same

bloated music video and put on the same stage show? His desire to chase after the

same success he found with Thriller as opposed to evolving as an artist, created this

one-trick pony context, sadly.

4. Van Hunt, at this moment, is a better songwriter than Prince. Popular and What Were

You Hoping For? may prove to be better than Prince's two best records.

5. Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Lay Your Head On My Pillow," which features pedal steel guitar,

is genius. In fact, because he' responsible for the three greatest R&B songs of our times:

"Soul Sista," "Untitled (How Does It Feel?)" and "Wild Child," Raphael Saadiq is also, at

this moment, a better songwriter than Prince.

6. Punk, as a musical artform, is vapid.

7. Hip hop is now making similar claims to vapidity.

8. Led Zeppelin is overrated and Jimmy Page is a plagiarizing hack of a songwriter.

9. Sammy Hagar > David Lee Roth

10. Janet Jackson's discography is more interesting than Michael's.

11. Missy Elliott is the only female MC who should be allowed to make records.

12. Voodoo is completely overrated.

13. News flash: Terence Trent D'Arby absolutely sucks. Deon Estus' one hit is better

than everything D'Arby ever recorded.

14. "Moves Like Jagger" proves Satan is still accepting deals even in the age of the

internet.

15. Beyonce is not fine and actually, Michelle was the best singer in Destiny's Child.

16. Nas > Biggie and 'Pac

17. Miley Cyrus does not bother me. I never knew her as Hannah Montana so I

actually dig her ratchet act; it's just futher proof that certain groups of people in

this country will appropriate anything associated with Black America, good or bad.

18. Good music is not dead; you are just getting old. The music of the 60s, 70s, 80s,

90s, and the 00s is not inherently better than the music of today. To make that claim

is fucking insane and groundless. Each decade has been proliferated with crap music.

19. Justin Timberlake is the only pop star who can make any efforts to claim the void

left by MJ's death. I didn't say he does. I said he can make an "effort to claim." I

am giving him my permission to show me what he can do. Robin Thicke, Usher, and

Justin Bieber can all have a seat.

20. Lenny Kravitz needs to be taken more seriously in rock.

It's a few things I disagree with here. I'm just going to highlight the most obvious. Beyonce is pretty but she is not the end all be all to top notch beauties in the game.

I'm not a Beyonce fan musically but she is certainly not ugly. Michelle is the best

singer in Destiny's Child.? My goodness this chick makes Rhianna sound like

Gladys Knight. Michelle sounds like the chipmunks and was basically Destiny Child's mascot. Michelle can't even outsing Letoya and to suggest that she sings better than Beyonce and Kelly is insane. I give Michelle props for wanting to do gospel but she's just not very good vocally.

As far as MJ's Thriller and Off the Wall I know it's the popular opinion here that OTW

is hands down better. I can't say that. I would give the slight edge to Thriller. I don't

care about the sales or the popularity of Thriller I just think a few songs like the title

track, Human Nature, PYT, and the Lady In My Life just takes it over by a nose. I dig

most of Off The Wall but Rock With You is my least favorite.

[Edited 12/22/13 20:38pm]

chellybeanz said:

novabrkr said:

Huh, not really.

You don't become something simply by calling yourself that.

What you've written above aren't just "unpopular opinions", you're plain wrong with those statements.

In your opinion. Who makes up the rules on makes you this or that? What makes Green Day not a rock band and KISS one? If they categorized themselves and people buy their stuff they are allowed to categorized themselves how they choose. As for Beyonce, your saying people can't choose. Like I said people have and dtill claim Prince is gay, he says he's straight. Is he not aloud to put himself in that category? Beyonce says she's a feminist but according to you others have to tell her she's a feminist. Even though they are tons of contradicting statements/criteria there is to be a feminist. The main thing all feminist believe is equality for women in all aspects of life. Yet, Beyonce can't put herself in that category. Yup, it's your opiniion that I'm "plain wrong".

You are are comparing two different things that can't be compared in that manner.

Prince's sexuality and his history of sexual partners is his own business. People just have to take his own word for it. You should be also aware that people use the word "gay" in a derogatory manner. Many people find it hard to take that so many women find him attractive when the society tells them that the ideal of what a man's appearance should be like is completely different. There are other reasons for people to insist that he is gay, all of which I think stem from a personal psychological need, but that's all based on something people have no proof of.

Feminism is an ideology. That's what the "ism" at the end denotes. We can, and should, make judgements on a person's actions and evaluate whether or not they fit the ideology he / she claims to support. In Beyonce's case, she has used her sexual attractiveness in a manner that many, if not the vast majority, of feminists condemn. She is not considered a positive role model for young women in that regard. For that matter, her understanding of feminism, its history and its aims, is so naive that nobody should take her seriously in that regard.

novabrkr said:

chellybeanz said:

novabrkr said: In your opinion. Who makes up the rules on makes you this or that? What makes Green Day not a rock band and KISS one? If they categorized themselves and people buy their stuff they are allowed to categorized themselves how they choose. As for Beyonce, your saying people can't choose. Like I said people have and dtill claim Prince is gay, he says he's straight. Is he not aloud to put himself in that category? Beyonce says she's a feminist but according to you others have to tell her she's a feminist. Even though they are tons of contradicting statements/criteria there is to be a feminist. The main thing all feminist believe is equality for women in all aspects of life. Yet, Beyonce can't put herself in that category. Yup, it's your opiniion that I'm "plain wrong".

You are are comparing two different things that can't be compared in that manner.

Prince's sexuality and his history of sexual partners is his own business. People just have to take his own word for it. You should be also aware that people use the word "gay" in a derogatory manner. Many people find it hard to take that so many women find him attractive when the society tells them that the ideal of what a man's appearance should be like is completely different. There are other reasons for people to insist that he is gay, all of which I think stem from a personal psychological need, but that's all based on something people have no proof of.

Feminism is an ideology. That's what the "ism" at the end denotes. We can, and should, make judgements on a person's actions and evaluate whether or not they fit the ideology he / she claims to support. In Beyonce's case, she has used her sexual attractiveness in a manner that many, if not the vast majority, of feminists condemn. She is not considered a positive role model for young women in that regard. For that matter, her understanding of feminism, its history and its aims, is so naive that nobody should take her seriously in that regard.

I've stated in this thread already that I don't find her attractive(especially without her wigs/weaves) and that her voice isn't that impressive. But I don't see how you could argue with her being a feminist. What in her actions has she done to contradict her beliefs that women are equal to men? How has she shown her naivety in her understanding of the ideology of feminism? Please enlighten me.

1. 1. If Pop stars do not want to be seen as anything more than just a “pop star” then they need to stop calling themselves feminist, social activists, humanitarians, politian’s etc. You can't have it both ways. You can't go shake hands with Obama and say you care about social issues but then don't want to put your money where your mouth is when it really counts. If you call yourself a feminist that means you want to be viewed as such. That means that the public has every right to question whether or not you represent “feminism”
2. 2. James Brown is underrated as a songwriter
3. 3. Justin Timberlake is what Elvis Presley was for his generation ( a white man that is glorified for doing manufactured imitations of what R&B/soul artists and African American entertainers have been doing since the beginning of time)
4. 4. Madonna may be a bitch but she isn’t phony or fake. She doesn’t care what you think about her and never has.
5. 5. Michael Jackson is underrated as a songwriter and as a vocalist.
6. 6. It is becoming a crime to be opinionated in music
7. 7. Sly& the Family Stone are underrated
8. 8. The Carpenters are underrated (Karen Carpenter especially)
9. 9. The Nicholas Brothers were better dancers than Gene Kelly and Fred Astair.
10. 10. Jackie Wilson is underrated as a vocalist
11. 11. Calling everybody that dislikes an artist “haters” is tired and old. Come up with more mature reasons for why you disagree
12. 12. All artists are products because they are trying to sell music (thats understood) but there is a difference between an artist that is actually involved in their music/creativity versus a singer who sells perfume and things unrelated to music. In other words, I am not going to call Marvin Gaye the same as Miley Cyrus because he is not and I think that is rather insulting.
13. 13. It’s a dead horse but most of the popular music that is out now will not be remembered in the next 50 years.
14. 14. I am not a Brittany Spears fan but she always seemed and seems sincere and never takes herself too seriously which is why I don’t mind her.
15. 15. Janet Jackson is criminally underrated. I think she has had the same level of influence Madonna has had on today’s female pop stars.
16. 16. Rappers like Krs One, Rakim, Chuck D, Ice Cube etc deserve WAY more accolades for pioneering hip hop.
17. 17. Janelle Monae is more talented than all the pop girls that are out today. She has an interesting personality and makes interesting music but since she doesn't pose half naked she is not as popular
18. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.
19. 19. Billboards, Grammys, AMA's, MTV awards etc have been trash for the last 20 years. Why do music listeners still take them seriously? Why do music listeners expect for them to be fair? They have been giving out awards based on popularity and not quality for over the last 20 years, this ain't changing no time soon!
20. 20. Its been a bullshit cliche to say that everything after Michael's work with Quincy has been lack luster but the only people that say that are the people who have not bothered to listened to Dangerous, HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor because these three albums are more eclectic musically and lyrically to BAD and Thriller.
21. 21. The Rolling Stones are better than The Beatles
22. 22. Jay Z is wack and if Biggie/Pac were still alive today he would not be as popular.
23. 23. People need to stop comparing these new generation artists to legendary artists, just stop it!
24. 24. Stop throwing up sales and awards like it means something. It doesn’t mean anything if the music is shit.

mjscarousal said:

^ I agree, they do. I actually mostly listen to their 60s/70s material. I find them to be more interesting than the Beatles. I love Lennon though. I would add Barry to the list as well. The Bee Gees overall don't get enough respect outside of the "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack which was a great soundtrack but still...they were great songwriters!

Thriller is MJ's best album. In fact it's MJ's only album that is enjoyable all the way through. Even TGIM (the least popular track) is kind of charming. OTW has a better sound, but I prefer the songs on Thriller.

mjscarousal said:

^ I agree, they do. I actually mostly listen to their 60s/70s material. I find them to be more interesting than the Beatles. I love Lennon though. I would add Barry to the list as well. The Bee Gees overall don't get enough respect outside of the "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack which was a great soundtrack but still...they were great songwriters!

I agree all great amazing songwriters in their own way, Lennon and McCartney though seldom were a team (after 1965), for me the Beatles are 1965-1970 that era is astouding to me what they did with what was available in the times. The stones i always respected and still do, i feel that after "Undercover the Night" the albums were very mixed bags of stuff, hidden stuff in there but nothing amazing, and i by no means lose interest in artists when they age because ALOT get better and have great records after their HIT days are past. Yeah people actually forget that these guys had a string of huge hits prior to 1977's explsosion Bee Gee Mania.

And a little something to add to the whole Grunge killed hair metal and this killed that. Hey guess what every FAD dies off, when was the last time you saw Eddie Vedder rocking a flannel shirt, or when was the last time Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots were all over the place? Everything dies off. RB bands died a serious death when Next and 112 and all the little groups came out and the guys were singing with their shirts off and RB sold its SOUL. Everything dies off, ask Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson about the "teen movement" now. When decades change people get swept away, it happens some hold on and stay in the mix, some take drugs or blow themselves away and become more famous. Nothing kills anything off, times f'ing change, the only reason PEARL JAM still are a big selling band is that they grew up and "let it go", the only reason Dave Grohl is bigger now than then, is because he grew, you think either could still be doing "those down tracks now" without being laughed at. NO WAY. Just like Elvis killed off the Frank Sinatra era, and then Beatles killed off Elvis, then singer songwriters came in, then disco, then punk, then new wave, then freestyle, then hair metal, then power ballads, then gangsta rap, then techno, etc....you get the point it all comes and goes, when was the last time Stock Aiken and Waterman busted out a beat? case closed

And while on the subject this has to STOP

Everytime someone asks where are the RB bands , do not reply MINT CONDITION, please answer with a RB band from this century.

lastdecember said:

And a little something to add to the whole Grunge killed hair metal and this killed that. Hey guess what every FAD dies off, when was the last time you saw Eddie Vedder rocking a flannel shirt, or when was the last time Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots were all over the place? Everything dies off. RB bands died a serious death when Next and 112 and all the little groups came out and the guys were singing with their shirts off and RB sold its SOUL. Everything dies off, ask Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson about the "teen movement" now. When decades change people get swept away, it happens some hold on and stay in the mix, some take drugs or blow themselves away and become more famous. Nothing kills anything off, times f'ing change, the only reason PEARL JAM still are a big selling band is that they grew up and "let it go", the only reason Dave Grohl is bigger now than then, is because he grew, you think either could still be doing "those down tracks now" without being laughed at. NO WAY. Just like Elvis killed off the Frank Sinatra era, and then Beatles killed off Elvis, then singer songwriters came in, then disco, then punk, then new wave, then freestyle, then hair metal, then power ballads, then gangsta rap, then techno, etc....you get the point it all comes and goes, when was the last time Stock Aiken and Waterman busted out a beat? case closed

And while on the subject this has to STOP

Everytime someone asks where are the RB bands , do not reply MINT CONDITION, please answer with a RB band from this century.

mjscarousal said:

1. 1. If Pop stars do not want to be seen as anything more than just a “pop star” then they need to stop calling themselves feminist, social activists, humanitarians, politian’s etc. You can't have it both ways. You can't go shake hands with Obama and say you care about social issues but then don't want to put your money where your mouth is when it really counts. If you call yourself a feminist that means you want to be viewed as such. That means that the public has every right to question whether or not you represent “feminism”
2. 2. James Brown is underrated as a songwriter
3. 3. Justin Timberlake is what Elvis Presley was for his generation ( a white man that is glorified for doing manufactured imitations of what R&B/soul artists and African American entertainers have been doing since the beginning of time)
4. 4. Madonna may be a bitch but she isn’t phony or fake. She doesn’t care what you think about her and never has.
5. 5. Michael Jackson is underrated as a songwriter and as a vocalist.
6. 6. It is becoming a crime to be opinionated in music
7. 7. Sly& the Family Stone are underrated
8. 8. The Carpenters are underrated (Karen Carpenter especially)
9. 9. The Nicholas Brothers were better dancers than Gene Kelly and Fred Astair.
10. 10. Jackie Wilson is underrated as a vocalist
11. 11. Calling everybody that dislikes an artist “haters” is tired and old. Come up with more mature reasons for why you disagree
12. 12. All artists are products because they are trying to sell music (thats understood) but there is a difference between an artist that is actually involved in their music/creativity versus a singer who sells perfume and things unrelated to music. In other words, I am not going to call Marvin Gaye the same as Miley Cyrus because he is not and I think that is rather insulting.
13. 13. It’s a dead horse but most of the popular music that is out now will not be remembered in the next 50 years.
14. 14. I am not a Brittany Spears fan but she always seemed and seems sincere and never takes herself too seriously which is why I don’t mind her.
15. 15. Janet Jackson is criminally underrated. I think she has had the same level of influence Madonna has had on today’s female pop stars.
16. 16. Rappers like Krs One, Rakim, Chuck D, Ice Cube etc deserve WAY more accolades for pioneering hip hop.
17. 17. Janelle Monae is more talented than all the pop girls that are out today. She has an interesting personality and makes interesting music but since she doesn't pose half naked she is not as popular
18. 18. Not a Rihanna, Gaga or Miley Cyrus fan but why is it when they show their asses and make explicit lyrics they are bashed and the media calls them bad role models but when Beyonce shows her ass and makes explicit songs she is called a feminist and a good role model? The double standard the media and folks show toward Beyonce is hilarious. If any other female pop star had of made that boring Beyonce album the media would have bashed the hell of them for being slutty and overly explicit in the lyric content.
19. 19. Billboards, Grammys, AMA's, MTV awards etc have been trash for the last 20 years. Why do music listeners still take them seriously? Why do music listeners expect for them to be fair? They have been giving out awards based on popularity and not quality for over the last 20 years, this ain't changing no time soon!
20. 20. Its been a bullshit cliche to say that everything after Michael's work with Quincy has been lack luster but the only people that say that are the people who have not bothered to listened to Dangerous, HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor because these three albums are more eclectic musically and lyrically to BAD and Thriller.
21. 21. The Rolling Stones are better than The Beatles
22. 22. Jay Z is wack and if Biggie/Pac were still alive today he would not be as popular.
23. 23. People need to stop comparing these new generation artists to legendary artists, just stop it!
24. 24. Stop throwing up sales and awards like it means something. It doesn’t mean anything if the music is shit.

YES !preach lady!

lazycrockett said:

duccichucka said:

1. After Sign O' The Times, Prince has been bloody awful. But I respect him as an

artist for never making Purple Rain II.

2. The Beatles are the sole reason why anybody from the 60s onwards wants to make

a pop album as a cohesive artistic statement: you better recognize.

3. Michael Jackson, who may have been one of the greatest entertainers of all time,

became a one-trick pony after Bad - and Off The Wall is better than Thriller. How

many times was MJ gonna bust out the same dance moves, make the same

bloated music video and put on the same stage show? His desire to chase after the

same success he found with Thriller as opposed to evolving as an artist, created this

one-trick pony context, sadly.

4. Van Hunt, at this moment, is a better songwriter than Prince. Popular and What Were

You Hoping For? may prove to be better than Prince's two best records.

5. Tony! Toni! Tone!'s "Lay Your Head On My Pillow," which features pedal steel guitar,

is genius. In fact, because he' responsible for the three greatest R&B songs of our times:

"Soul Sista," "Untitled (How Does It Feel?)" and "Wild Child," Raphael Saadiq is also, at

this moment, a better songwriter than Prince.

6. Punk, as a musical artform, is vapid.

7. Hip hop is now making similar claims to vapidity.

8. Led Zeppelin is overrated and Jimmy Page is a plagiarizing hack of a songwriter.

9. Sammy Hagar > David Lee Roth

10. Janet Jackson's discography is more interesting than Michael's.

11. Missy Elliott is the only female MC who should be allowed to make records.

12. Voodoo is completely overrated.

13. News flash: Terence Trent D'Arby absolutely sucks. Deon Estus' one hit is better

than everything D'Arby ever recorded.

14. "Moves Like Jagger" proves Satan is still accepting deals even in the age of the

internet.

15. Beyonce is not fine and actually, Michelle was the best singer in Destiny's Child.

16. Nas > Biggie and 'Pac

17. Miley Cyrus does not bother me. I never knew her as Hannah Montana so I

actually dig her ratchet act; it's just futher proof that certain groups of people in

this country will appropriate anything associated with Black America, good or bad.

18. Good music is not dead; you are just getting old. The music of the 60s, 70s, 80s,

90s, and the 00s is not inherently better than the music of today. To make that claim

is fucking insane and groundless. Each decade has been proliferated with crap music.

19. Justin Timberlake is the only pop star who can make any efforts to claim the void

left by MJ's death. I didn't say he does. I said he can make an "effort to claim." I

am giving him my permission to show me what he can do. Robin Thicke, Usher, and

Justin Bieber can all have a seat.

20. Lenny Kravitz needs to be taken more seriously in rock.

I gotta say you pretty much nailed what the problem with MJ was after thriller.

after the bad tour Michael was never the same force he was before in live shows..true..but I think it was stated he had several health problems and I think he was just not there anymore because of what was happening in his private life...something broke inside of him and it was never fixed..

lastdecember said:

And a little something to add to the whole Grunge killed hair metal and this killed that. Hey guess what every FAD dies off, when was the last time you saw Eddie Vedder rocking a flannel shirt, or when was the last time Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots were all over the place? Everything dies off. RB bands died a serious death when Next and 112 and all the little groups came out and the guys were singing with their shirts off and RB sold its SOUL. Everything dies off, ask Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson about the "teen movement" now. When decades change people get swept away, it happens some hold on and stay in the mix, some take drugs or blow themselves away and become more famous. Nothing kills anything off, times f'ing change, the only reason PEARL JAM still are a big selling band is that they grew up and "let it go", the only reason Dave Grohl is bigger now than then, is because he grew, you think either could still be doing "those down tracks now" without being laughed at. NO WAY. Just like Elvis killed off the Frank Sinatra era, and then Beatles killed off Elvis, then singer songwriters came in, then disco, then punk, then new wave, then freestyle, then hair metal, then power ballads, then gangsta rap, then techno, etc....you get the point it all comes and goes, when was the last time Stock Aiken and Waterman busted out a beat? case closed

And while on the subject this has to STOP

Everytime someone asks where are the RB bands , do not reply MINT CONDITION, please answer with a RB band from this century.

YES but people won't let it go. They don't understand FADS die off...

Apperently according to some users (Who i love dearly though) Grunge killed every rock genere and every genre ever. So, grunge killed funk? r&b? metal? (Strange cause metal is a form of rock and was what many would argue is in it's peak in the 90's) did it kill Alt Rock? (Also huge in the 90's to now) did it kill punk rock? (That was on life support way before grunge)

I need receipts that they killed every rock genre. When nearly all rock genres were huge in the 90's and 00's

lastdecember said:

And a little something to add to the whole Grunge killed hair metal and this killed that. Hey guess what every FAD dies off, when was the last time you saw Eddie Vedder rocking a flannel shirt, or when was the last time Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots were all over the place? Everything dies off. RB bands died a serious death when Next and 112 and all the little groups came out and the guys were singing with their shirts off and RB sold its SOUL. Everything dies off, ask Mandy Moore and Jessica Simpson about the "teen movement" now. When decades change people get swept away, it happens some hold on and stay in the mix, some take drugs or blow themselves away and become more famous. Nothing kills anything off, times f'ing change, the only reason PEARL JAM still are a big selling band is that they grew up and "let it go", the only reason Dave Grohl is bigger now than then, is because he grew, you think either could still be doing "those down tracks now" without being laughed at. NO WAY. Just like Elvis killed off the Frank Sinatra era, and then Beatles killed off Elvis, then singer songwriters came in, then disco, then punk, then new wave, then freestyle, then hair metal, then power ballads, then gangsta rap, then techno, etc....you get the point it all comes and goes, when was the last time Stock Aiken and Waterman busted out a beat? case closed

And while on the subject this has to STOP

Everytime someone asks where are the RB bands , do not reply MINT CONDITION, please answer with a RB band from this century.

I agree

I dig ducci's list.

cindymay said:

after the bad tour Michael was never the same force he was before in live shows..true..but I think it was stated he had several health problems and I think he was just not there anymore because of what was happening in his private life...something broke inside of him and it was never fixed..

Still made fuckin' great music tho'.