...

This piece has always been one of my favorites. Joni originaly recorded this song, about a Vietnam War Vet, on her album, "Chalkmark In A Rainstorm"(1988)...

Janet Jackson said that her brother Randy originally turned her onto Joni Mitchell, and that "Black Wings" was her favorite Joni tune. Janet originally recorded this for a Joni Mitchell Tribute album, but the record company decided not to include it...even though Joni apparently liked the remake...

IMO, Janet's voice doesn't quite carry the weight of the song subject like Joni does (lyrics below)...But I gotta admit, I do like the chord changes on the new version, too...guess I like both, but for very different reasons...

What do you folks think?

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Joni Mitchell - "The Beat of Black Wings"

...

...

Janet Jackson -"The Beat of Black Wings"

...

...

I met a young soldier
He said his name was Killer Kyle..
He was shakin' all over,
Like a knife-frightened child...

This is his story,

It's a tough one for me to sing
Hard as the squawk and the flap,
And the beat of black wings...

("Johnny angel...Johnny angel")

"They gave me a gun" he said
"They gave me a mission
For the power and the glory -
Propaganda - piss on 'em

There's a war zone inside me,
I can feel things exploding
I can't even hear the fucking music playing
For the beat of black wings..."

He said "I never had nothin' -
Nothin' I could believe in
My girl killed our unborn child
Without even grievin'!
I put my hands on her belly
To feel the kid kickin' - damn!
She'd been to some clinic...

Oh the beat of black wings..."

"They want you - they need you
They train you to kill,
To be a pin on some map
Some vicarious thrill...
The old hate the young,
That's the whole heartless thing...
They pick the wars
We die in 'em,
To the beat of black wings"

There's a man drawing pictures
On the sidewalk with chalk
Just as fast as he draws 'em,
Rain come down and wash 'em off...

"Keep the drinks comin' girl,
'Til I can't feel anything...

I'm just a chalk mark in a rainstorm
I'm just the beat of..... black wings."

....

...

[Edited 12/12/13 15:31pm]

I would have to go with Joni, even though I like Janet's take on the song. Knowing that Jan is a fan of Joni makes me a bigger fan of Janet.

*

Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm is such a classic Joni album, It astounds me that it is not recognized as a Top Album of all time. Love it from front to back.

*

..and Wendy & Lisa are on it...so it's a win win for me.

[Edited 12/12/13 14:30pm]

and the guestlist is incredible!

Tracklist Credits

Love 'em both (you know me, lol)

SEANMAN said:

Love 'em both (you know me, lol)

...

Ndeed!!

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G3000 said:

and the guestlist is incredible!

Tracklist Credits

A1		My Secret Place Vocals, Backing Vocals [Background Vocals] – Peter Gabriel	4:59
A2		Number One	5:41
B4		The Reoccurring Dream	3:03
B5		A Bird That Whistles (Arrangement of the traditional work "Corrina, Corrina") Saxophone [Saxophones] – Wayne Shorter	2:36

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I know--Everybody came to play on that album!!

Joni also appreciated the fact that Janet said it was one of her favorites....

...

...

I have to go with Joni.
Especially for the sincerity/depth factor.
Joni sells the story.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Janet was awesome during Velvet Rope, but this cover is very disappointing. She could have done better vocally.

Joni or Janet? This is a no-brainer. Joni all the way. She can sing, I mean REALLY sing.

Empress said:

Yes...heard 'em both, many years ago...opinion remains the same.

What a mess of a cover...she even sampled the original drums and synth, what's the point of that? Could've made some effort Janet...if she can't play an instrument, perhaps a different arrangement? Sheesh.

Could've done without the 'love-dovey', typical Janet-esque, fake, coy, 'tribute'. Who cares whether or not it's her 'favourite' song? Pure solipsism.

She needed to realise that this ISN'T a love song.

Her voice, uninteresting and generic...

Jimmy and Terry really MADE this woman.

funkyandy said:

Yes...heard 'em both, many years ago...opinion remains the same.

What a mess of a cover...she even sampled the original drums and synth, what's the point of that? Could've made some effort Janet...if she can't play an instrument, perhaps a different arrangement? Sheesh.

Could've done without the 'love-dovey', typical Janet-esque, fake, coy, 'tribute'. Who cares whether or not it's her 'favourite' song? Pure solipsism.

She needed to realise that this ISN'T a love song.

Her voice, uninteresting and generic...

Jimmy and Terry really MADE this woman.

Just as she made them. Also since they 'made' Janet, they are most likely just as responsibel for this cover as she herself is.

funkyandy said:

Yes...heard 'em both, many years ago...opinion remains the same.

What a mess of a cover...she even sampled the original drums and synth, what's the point of that? Could've made some effort Janet...if she can't play an instrument, perhaps a different arrangement? Sheesh.

Could've done without the 'love-dovey', typical Janet-esque, fake, coy, 'tribute'. Who cares whether or not it's her 'favourite' song? Pure solipsism.

She needed to realise that this ISN'T a love song.

Her voice, uninteresting and generic...

Jimmy and Terry really MADE this woman.

GTFO with this bullshit. If you are so uninterested in Janet, then why are you usually one of the first people to post in a thread in which she is the topic? Pressed haters are the worst.

theAudience said:

I have to go with Joni.
Especially for the sincerity/depth factor.
Joni sells the story.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

I have to agree.

But Janet's performance, though a bit too cloying for my tastes, might have been cool on one of her own projects. Would have been interesting to see the narrative presented to a younger generation who has far less an interpersonal intimacy with the fallout of war.

funkyandy said:

Yes...heard 'em both, many years ago...opinion remains the same.

What a mess of a cover...she even sampled the original drums and synth, what's the point of that? Could've made some effort Janet...if she can't play an instrument, perhaps a different arrangement? Sheesh.

Could've done without the 'love-dovey', typical Janet-esque, fake, coy, 'tribute'. Who cares whether or not it's her 'favourite' song? Pure solipsism.

She needed to realise that this ISN'T a love song.

Her voice, uninteresting and generic...

Jimmy and Terry really MADE this woman.

J&T produced this version. If I recall during my Janet fan phase, this was a leftover from the Velvet Rope sessions.

G3000 said:

and the guestlist is incredible!

There's a ton of talent on that album! I originally paid attention to it because of Gabriel...then discovered that numerous great artists had collaborated on it.

Timmy84 said:

funkyandy said:

Yes...heard 'em both, many years ago...opinion remains the same.

What a mess of a cover...she even sampled the original drums and synth, what's the point of that? Could've made some effort Janet...if she can't play an instrument, perhaps a different arrangement? Sheesh.

Could've done without the 'love-dovey', typical Janet-esque, fake, coy, 'tribute'. Who cares whether or not it's her 'favourite' song? Pure solipsism.

She needed to realise that this ISN'T a love song.

Her voice, uninteresting and generic...

Jimmy and Terry really MADE this woman.

J&T produced this version. If I recall during my Janet fan phase, this was a leftover from the Velvet Rope sessions.

Your response Timmy (to my original comment) is the only one worth replying to...in this instance.

Your choice of the word 'leftover' is is very apt!

Anyway, there appears to be a common consensus amongst the orgers here...

funkyandy said:

Timmy84 said:

J&T produced this version. If I recall during my Janet fan phase, this was a leftover from the Velvet Rope sessions.

Your response Timmy (to my original comment) is the only one worth replying to...in this instance.

Your choice of the word 'leftover' is is very apt!

Anyway, there appears to be a common consensus amongst the orgers here...

Yeah I know lol

But yeah there's a good reason it was left off the Velvet Rope. Her version just didn't have the punch Joni's has anyway. Joni's a genius. And it was definitely weak compared to what J&T and Janet were doing with The Velvet Rope.

[Edited 12/15/13 9:10am]

Azz said:

funkyandy said:

Timmy84 said:

funkyandy said:

Your response Timmy (to my original comment) is the only one worth replying to...in this instance.

Your choice of the word 'leftover' is is very apt!

Anyway, there appears to be a common consensus amongst the orgers here...

Yeah I know lol

But yeah there's a good reason it was left off the Velvet Rope. Her version just didn't have the punch Joni's has anyway. Joni's a genius. And it was definitely weak compared to what J&T and Janet were doing with The Velvet Rope.

[Edited 12/15/13 9:10am]

Absolutely Timmy...it wouldn't have fit on 'The Velvet Rope'...partly because of the theme of that album alone, never mind the shortcomings of the cover. Plus sonically it was far too similar to the original also.

Oh...while I'm here, if these other commenters who are projecting their hate and angst onto me are friends of yours, can you explain to them it's a total waste of their time? They don't appear to be getting my hint...

Yes, 'weak' is the correct word for Janet's version...I would critique it more, but I am genuinely concerned for the health of the children on this thread who go apopleptic over mere opinions...

'Control' was such a great album...lol

alphastreet said:

Azz said:

Just as she made them. Also since they 'made' Janet, they are most likely just as responsibel for this cover as she herself is.

Both sides brought out each others talent beautifully when collaborating, but Janet was NOT responsible for their genius works with SOS Band, The Time, Cherelle and so on. They are great and capable with and without Janet, and I say this as a fan

--------- Co-Sign. J&T could have given those songs to better singers than Janet and they would still be great.

funkyandy said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I know lol

But yeah there's a good reason it was left off the Velvet Rope. Her version just didn't have the punch Joni's has anyway. Joni's a genius. And it was definitely weak compared to what J&T and Janet were doing with The Velvet Rope.

[Edited 12/15/13 9:10am]

Absolutely Timmy...it wouldn't have fit on 'The Velvet Rope'...partly because of the theme of that album alone, never mind the shortcomings of the cover. Plus sonically it was far too similar to the original also.

Oh...while I'm here, if these other commenters who are projecting their hate and angst onto me are friends of yours, can you explain to them it's a total waste of their time? They don't appear to be getting my hint...

Yes, 'weak' is the correct word for Janet's version...I would critique it more, but I am genuinely concerned for the health of the children on this thread who go apopleptic over mere opinions...

'Control' was such a great album...lol

Lol I don't know some of them that well. I haven't been up on Janet in a minute anyway lol people are gonna say what they wanna say.

alphastreet said:

Azz said:

Just as she made them. Also since they 'made' Janet, they are most likely just as responsibel for this cover as she herself is.

Both sides brought out each others talent beautifully when collaborating, but Janet was NOT responsible for their genius works with SOS Band, The Time, Cherelle and so on. They are great and capable with and without Janet, and I say this as a fan

None of those artists has cross over international and pop chart success like Janet. I think J&L needed Janet as much as she needed them for recognition outside the R&B world.

The videos, style and live performances - all helped push sales - J&L had little to do with that.

Just a thought.

laurarichardson said:

alphastreet said:

Azz said: Both sides brought out each others talent beautifully when collaborating, but Janet was NOT responsible for their genius works with SOS Band, The Time, Cherelle and so on. They are great and capable with and without Janet, and I say this as a fan

--------- Co-Sign. J&T could have given those songs to better singers than Janet and they would still be great.

if thats the case why is all of their success outside of r&b with janet? they were a great team,theres no need to try and downplay they all needed each other.if you take away janet's catalog jimmy and terry's story would be completely different

mancabdriver said:

alphastreet said:

mancabdriver said:

None of those artists has cross over international and pop chart success like Janet. I think J&L needed Janet as much as she needed them for recognition outside the R&B world.

The videos, style and live performances - all helped push sales - J&L had little to do with that.

Just a thought.

I'm not discussing international appeal and popularity, I'm talking about classic r&b/funk tunes and good musical quality. There are plenty of artists who never got crossover appeal but were huge in the clubs and urban radio. Where is "The Knowledge" stans? I have everything she's done but refuse to discredit people where it's due. They also worked with other r&b artists during Janet's run and had those songs sampled and those and their early 80s tunes got sampled in r&b and hip hop. They would have been big like babyface and teddy Riley eventually without Janet, but in the end they were all great for each other [Edited 12/17/13 14:24pm]

babyface had #1 records with multiple artists,he wasnt associated with one particular artist.jam,lewis and janet were a team that together had tremendous success. how many times did they hit #1 on the hot 100 without janet?nobody ever discredits jimmy and terry,but people always seem to try to discredit janet. the music was great but like somebody said she worked those songs and made them hits.and no you cant just take those albums and give them to another artist and have the same results.

funkyandy said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I know lol

But yeah there's a good reason it was left off the Velvet Rope. Her version just didn't have the punch Joni's has anyway. Joni's a genius. And it was definitely weak compared to what J&T and Janet were doing with The Velvet Rope.

[Edited 12/15/13 9:10am]

Absolutely Timmy...it wouldn't have fit on 'The Velvet Rope'...partly because of the theme of that album alone, never mind the shortcomings of the cover. Plus sonically it was far too similar to the original also.

Oh...while I'm here, if these other commenters who are projecting their hate and angst onto me are friends of yours, can you explain to them it's a total waste of their time? They don't appear to be getting my hint...

Yes, 'weak' is the correct word for Janet's version...I would critique it more, but I am genuinely concerned for the health of the children on this thread who go apopleptic over mere opinions...

'Control' was such a great album...lol

Hate and angst? You flatter me. And exactly what kind of hint are you putting out? Gurrl, I could care less what you think of Janet to be honest. I just find it amusing that, being as though you're such a non-fan (which is my summation because you rarely have anything positive to say about her), how you take every opportunity to vocalize your non-fandom whenever a Janet thread appears--y'know, sort of like (ahem) trolling (ahem).