SeventeenDayze said:

MickyDolenz said:

I wonder why some people think rap is supposed to teach their audience something, when other types of music doesn't get the same kind of comments. There were those people saying heavy metal make their listeners commit suicide or worship Satan, but they still didn't say that it's supposed to teach or uplift the community. I don't hear country fans saying that it causes people to be rednecks or hillbillies, because that isn't the case. Blaming rap for problems is no different than saying that listening to goth music makes someone shoot up a mall or school. Did Batman make that guy shoot up a movie theater? Does going to a soccer game make people riot? More than likely if someone is going to do something, they were going to do it anyway. Since is been said that white people purchase the larger percentage of rap records, why doesn't it effect them in the same way, if it causes behavior.

.

Decades ago folks tried to blame comic books, westerns, rock 'n roll, jazz, "race music", The Beatles, 1950's juvenile deliquent movies, cartoons, flappers, Three Stooges, hippies, etc. They always blame something else. In the 1930's, they came up with the Hayes Code for movies, then there were the Hoover/McCarthy witchhunts. If you listen to old blues and country songs, a lot of them have the same kind of subject matter as a gangsta rap song, but maybe without the profanity. Gangs have existed long before there was even a recording industry. It isn't the job of music to teach anything, that's what books and libraries are for.

The reason white people don't say that country music causes people to be rednecks and hillbillies is because country music is not the only type of music in their mainstream. They've had rock and pop as well as country so they haven't had just country music as their only choice. When it comes to black mainstream stations though, it has always been and still is R&B stations only. And what is 80 to 90 percent of what is played on current mainstream R&B stations? Shit hop. Sure, no one is restricted to listening to only those stations and is free to venture out and explore other genres, but the average young listener, and that goes for both black and white, listens to what their mainstream is. There are three mainstream white genres, there is only one black mainstream genre.

.

As for the heavy metal listeners committing suicide, sure some of them did but how often did that happen? As for the goth music making someone shoot up the schools, how often do the schools get shot up? As for the guy that shot up the theater during the "Batman" movie, he was one guy and how often has that happened? Those things don't happen on a regular routine day to day basis. The people that did those things were crazy as hell to begin with. On the other hand, turn on the local news and damn near every day, someone is being arrested for robbing places, shooting someone, or overall just general violent crimes and what does the majority of them look like when their picture is flashed across the screen? They look like these damn sorry ass trashy shit hoppers. You love throwing up exceptions and incidents that don't occur every day but I'm throwing up everyday routine shit that happens so I know shit hop has influenced it big time.

.

As for the white people listening to the shit hop, they do dress the part and talk the talk but it's strictly an act they're putting on. They're not going out and committing the crimes and violent acts because they're listening to it from the safety of their safe sheltered white world so the music is just fantasy or escapism to them.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/14/13 9:38am]

Scorp said:

see, culture has been obliterated

music as a whole is finished, this beast called the pop ascension, which began in 1987, absolutely took reign and destroyed this once beautiful expression called music.....

there is an underlying spirit of feel that began to permeate when I was a teenager, specifically 15, where my heart constantly said things were never going to be the same again......

was this entity of the pop ascension brought forth by what we have come to know in the last couple of years as the ILLUMINATI?.....the answer could be yes, the answer could be no

I know one thing though

the pop ascension was real, it acted as the greatest illusionary presence I've ever seeen, and now we are seeing the debris it has left behind and what this negative force has led to

it has destroyed a wave of premier artists, potential artists, luminaries, one in a generation talent, it took Michael Jackson and sent him into oblivion and everytime I think about it, it takes me back to the moment when the travail began

in regards to Rap Music....

I read this book years ago, a book I've had the opportunity to purchase for myself, and in that book featured the commentary of the forefathers who crafted this music, who blood, sweat, and teared when conceiving

and them forefathers issued a stark warning to the people, as early as 1977-1978, for they knew they had created something noteworthy and profound

they warned if Rap music ever became commercialized, it would be destroyed

and how prophetic their words have played out some 36 years later.......

and yes, it has now become the tool of the oppressor when it was meant to liberate who were trapped by America's social ills

and those who run this country transformed the intent from one of liberation to that of further oppression of the mind

when explicit lyrical content was allowed to be recited on wax, that opened up pandora's box, creating hostility, and generational divide

I've seen not one, not two but THREE generations of youth have been victimized by the influence of what they have heard, and seen, and have internalized these distortions to create their image of themselves and life itself

it's all deliberate

[Edited 10/11/13 3:44am]

You've got that right about the three generations. No other form of music has dominated mainstream R&B for that long except for shit hop. Just yesterday, I had the TV on in the background while I was on the computer and I had it on the Bounce network which is a black network. There was a news show on with several guests and they were discussing whether the civil rights era was actually over or is it still going on. One of them made a comment that they should get the "hip hop generation" to get in on it. He did not say "the younger black generation", he said the "hip hop generation". See, it has dominated for soooooo long that people are starting to now refer to the younger black generation as the "hip hop generation". Uh...."shit hop generation" is more like it.

.

Now, I've heard of the "Baby Boomer generation" or "Generation X" or whatever the hell they call it, but I've never heard of a generation being referred to by it's music. They never called us the "Disco Generation", the "Funk Generation", the "Punk Rocker" generation, the "Heavy Metal" generation, etc. Why? Because we had style changes throughout our years and we had many style changes. This younger generation has had shit hop and shit hop only in their mainstream their entire lives and the guy on the TV is not the first person that I've heard refer to the younger generation as the "hip hop generation". It kind of implies that people have given up and see shit hop as what is going to dominate forever and ever without any style changes in the future. It's really depressing to think that styles will never completely change and things will never get better.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/14/13 10:07am]

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

I wonder why some people think rap is supposed to teach their audience something, when other types of music doesn't get the same kind of comments. There were those people saying heavy metal make their listeners commit suicide or worship Satan, but they still didn't say that it's supposed to teach or uplift the community. I don't hear country fans saying that it causes people to be rednecks or hillbillies, because that isn't the case. Blaming rap for problems is no different than saying that listening to goth music makes someone shoot up a mall or school. Did Batman make that guy shoot up a movie theater? Does going to a soccer game make people riot? More than likely if someone is going to do something, they were going to do it anyway. Since is been said that white people purchase the larger percentage of rap records, why doesn't it effect them in the same way, if it causes behavior.

.

Decades ago folks tried to blame comic books, westerns, rock 'n roll, jazz, "race music", The Beatles, 1950's juvenile deliquent movies, cartoons, flappers, Three Stooges, hippies, etc. They always blame something else. In the 1930's, they came up with the Hayes Code for movies, then there were the Hoover/McCarthy witchhunts. If you listen to old blues and country songs, a lot of them have the same kind of subject matter as a gangsta rap song, but maybe without the profanity. Gangs have existed long before there was even a recording industry. It isn't the job of music to teach anything, that's what books and libraries are for.

The reason white people don't say that country music causes people to be rednecks and hillbillies is because country music is not the only type of music in their mainstream. They've had rock and pop as well as country so they haven't had just country music as their only choice. When it comes to black mainstream stations though, it has always been and still is R&B stations only. And what is 80 to 90 percent of what is played on current mainstream R&B stations? Shit hop. Sure, no one is restricted to listening to only those stations and is free to venture out and explore other genres, but the average young listener, and that goes for both black and white, listens to what their mainstream is. There are three mainstream white genres, there is only one black mainstream genre.

.

As for the heavy metal listeners committing suicide, sure some of them did but how often did that happen? As for the goth music making someone shoot up the schools, how often do the schools get shot up? As for the guy that shot up the theater during the "Batman" movie, he was one guy and how often has that happened? Those things don't happen on a regular routine day to day basis. The people that did those things were crazy as hell to begin with. On the other hand, turn on the local news and damn near every day, someone is being arrested for robbing places, shooting someone, or overall just general violent crimes and what does the majority of them look like when their picture is flashed across the screen? They look like these damn sorry ass trashy shit hoppers. You love throwing up exceptions and incidents that don't occur every day but I'm throwing up everyday routine shit that happens so I know shit hop has influenced it big time.

.

As for the white people listening to the shit hop, they do dress the part and talk the talk but it's strictly an act they're putting on. They're not going out and committing the crimes and violent acts because they're listening to it from the safety of their safe sheltered white world so the music is just fantasy or escapism to them.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/14/13 9:38am]

Andy, those are excellent points you made in both posts! The other person who posted about their 24-year-old relative is a prime example of this sad situation as well. He apparently doesn't see a problem with being a baby daddy at his age, and having a third child on the way with no job. I know the economy is tight right now but when you have someone listening to music that glorifies going down this path, then they aren't operating from a position of shame. They are just like "Yeah this is normal because it's everywhere" is the mentality. As you mentioned, this is happening so frequently that people aren't shocked/surprised by it anymore and the added tragedy is that rap labels (who are owned by shady characters) continue to promote this as if there's nothing else going on.

vainandy said:

As for the white people listening to the shit hop, they do dress the part and talk the talk but it's strictly an act they're putting on. They're not going out and committing the crimes and violent acts because they're listening to it from the safety of their safe sheltered white world so the music is just fantasy or escapism to them.

Well then, if rap makes people do crime, it will make everyone that listens to it commit crimes. It won't work differently on different people. It won't make a difference if the person has a lot of money or has none. If a venomous snake bites someone, it won't affect a poor person differently than a rich one. If hip hop causes black people to commit crime and to white people it's just a costume and escapism, then you're saying blacks are stupid and can be brainwashed easily because they can't determine rap is "escapism entertainment" like the smart sheltered white people in the suburbs. It's the same old "comic books are bad for kids" thing again. They took comic book companies to court in the 1940s & 50s. Comic books are still here. They tried to shut down rock n roll with the payola hearings apparently forgetting that there was payola with pre-rock popular music. But that music was ok with the Tipper Gore's of the world.

SeventeenDayze said:

added tragedy is that rap labels (who are owned by shady characters) continue to promote this as if there's nothing else going on.

Many labels are ran by shady characters, not just the rap ones, and it's always been that way. That's why they are rich and many of the acts are broke. That's why the labels own the acts music and can do what they want with. In the old days some labels were mafia ran or had mafia connections, and they also owned many of the nightclubs (ie. Cotton Club, Las Vegas) and was behind Hollywood too. It wasn't a secret that the Rat Pack had mafia affiliations, particularly Frank Sinatra.

SeventeenDayze said:

legendofnothing said:

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

Legend, thanks for sharing about your life. This was interesting. I'm just curious why your dad took a liking to Ice Cube above all others?

Because Cube was militant, prolific, angry, anti-establishment and a great story teller with a message aimed at young black youth to become self-reliant and aware of the lies we have been told by the "Powers That Be." Back then it was unheard of and my father would say, "That boy is bad. He actually saying something..Let me borrow that!"

vainandy said:

Scorp said:

see, culture has been obliterated

music as a whole is finished, this beast called the pop ascension, which began in 1987, absolutely took reign and destroyed this once beautiful expression called music.....

there is an underlying spirit of feel that began to permeate when I was a teenager, specifically 15, where my heart constantly said things were never going to be the same again......

was this entity of the pop ascension brought forth by what we have come to know in the last couple of years as the ILLUMINATI?.....the answer could be yes, the answer could be no

I know one thing though

the pop ascension was real, it acted as the greatest illusionary presence I've ever seeen, and now we are seeing the debris it has left behind and what this negative force has led to

it has destroyed a wave of premier artists, potential artists, luminaries, one in a generation talent, it took Michael Jackson and sent him into oblivion and everytime I think about it, it takes me back to the moment when the travail began

in regards to Rap Music....

I read this book years ago, a book I've had the opportunity to purchase for myself, and in that book featured the commentary of the forefathers who crafted this music, who blood, sweat, and teared when conceiving

and them forefathers issued a stark warning to the people, as early as 1977-1978, for they knew they had created something noteworthy and profound

they warned if Rap music ever became commercialized, it would be destroyed

and how prophetic their words have played out some 36 years later.......

and yes, it has now become the tool of the oppressor when it was meant to liberate who were trapped by America's social ills

and those who run this country transformed the intent from one of liberation to that of further oppression of the mind

when explicit lyrical content was allowed to be recited on wax, that opened up pandora's box, creating hostility, and generational divide

I've seen not one, not two but THREE generations of youth have been victimized by the influence of what they have heard, and seen, and have internalized these distortions to create their image of themselves and life itself

it's all deliberate

[Edited 10/11/13 3:44am]

You've got that right about the three generations. No other form of music has dominated mainstream R&B for that long except for shit hop. Just yesterday, I had the TV on in the background while I was on the computer and I had it on the Bounce network which is a black network. There was a news show on with several guests and they were discussing whether the civil rights era was actually over or is it still going on. One of them made a comment that they should get the "hip hop generation" to get in on it. He did not say "the younger black generation", he said the "hip hop generation". See, it has dominated for soooooo long that people are starting to now refer to the younger black generation as the "hip hop generation". Uh...."shit hop generation" is more like it.

.

Now, I've heard of the "Baby Boomer generation" or "Generation X" or whatever the hell they call it, but I've never heard of a generation being referred to by it's music. They never called us the "Disco Generation", the "Funk Generation", the "Punk Rocker" generation, the "Heavy Metal" generation, etc. Why? Because we had style changes throughout our years and we had many style changes. This younger generation has had shit hop and shit hop only in their mainstream their entire lives and the guy on the TV is not the first person that I've heard refer to the younger generation as the "hip hop generation". It kind of implies that people have given up and see shit hop as what is going to dominate forever and ever without any style changes in the future. It's really depressing to think that styles will never completely change and things will never get better.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/14/13 10:07am]

amen, it's a very sad commentary because there's so much more music could offer, but we have become limited to where if you don't like hip-hop exclusively, then you're not being real......

it's all deliberate.......a rainbow can't exist unless we include all the colors.....

and this is why I say, we are in trouble, real trouble......

allot of people are contributing to our demise while thinking they are contributing to our liberation and they can't even see it..........

midnightmover said:

legendofnothing said:

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

This naive post is typical of the warm, cosy and completely misguided attitude we are trained to adopt in this culture. You say it's all about personal responsibility, yet by your own admission your own positive attitude was instilled in you by your father. It's very easy for someone who's had that kind of luck to dismiss environmental influences. What you're effectively doing is stigmatizing victims. You don't mean to do it, but it's what you're doing.

You need to drop that all-American individualistic framework and look at the bigger picture. Peoples' destinies are shaped by forces which they are usually barely conscious of. Society is the big one. By blaming individuals you are ignoring this deeper reality. In effect you're becoming an apologist for the system wthout realizing it. It's not the system that's at fault it's the people themselves! They were born lazy, bad, stupid, etc. If only they could be as smart as you, eh?

Oh and one other thing: Spike Lee's an idiot.

Do you feel better now? I don't know Spike Lee personally so I can't really comment on his IQ score. "Bamboozled" the film is still fascinating and underrated imo. Now for the remainder of your post. Naive? Misguided? Hell yeah my parents instilled values, honor, morals, character and a hard work ethic into me. Thats right, no shame I'll admit it. But just because they led me to the water, did not mean I had to drink it. You must like playing the blame game and being the victim. Its the forces or destiny around us that cause people to give up and accept failure and mediocrity? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. I would never want to be a student in your classroom.

Attention all students: "You're all doomed, there is no need in trying to overcome your circumstance. You will always be a loser no matter what. The invisible forces are against you. Now close your books, go home, accept your fate and die."

Nope, I don't play the victim. The black community has gotten way out of line. Whenever someone comes along to address the fact that fathers are missing in action and need to raise their kids, they get tarred and feathered. Ask Bill Cosby. Black on black killing is at an all time high. Why? Is it Rick Ross, Lil Wayne and Jay Z fault? Rap music forced guns and drugs into their hands? So your a empty headed robot? No accountability whatsoever..It is always someone elses fault? Well keep on living like that playa. Young black men will continue to get locked up, killed and thrown to the wayside until the Black community stops making excuses and stops being weak. Nobody said it was gonna be easy.

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

I wonder why some people think rap is supposed to teach their audience something, when other types of music doesn't get the same kind of comments. There were those people saying heavy metal make their listeners commit suicide or worship Satan, but they still didn't say that it's supposed to teach or uplift the community. I don't hear country fans saying that it causes people to be rednecks or hillbillies, because that isn't the case. Blaming rap for problems is no different than saying that listening to goth music makes someone shoot up a mall or school. Did Batman make that guy shoot up a movie theater? Does going to a soccer game make people riot? More than likely if someone is going to do something, they were going to do it anyway. Since is been said that white people purchase the larger percentage of rap records, why doesn't it effect them in the same way, if it causes behavior.

.

Decades ago folks tried to blame comic books, westerns, rock 'n roll, jazz, "race music", The Beatles, 1950's juvenile deliquent movies, cartoons, flappers, Three Stooges, hippies, etc. They always blame something else. In the 1930's, they came up with the Hayes Code for movies, then there were the Hoover/McCarthy witchhunts. If you listen to old blues and country songs, a lot of them have the same kind of subject matter as a gangsta rap song, but maybe without the profanity. Gangs have existed long before there was even a recording industry. It isn't the job of music to teach anything, that's what books and libraries are for.

The reason white people don't say that country music causes people to be rednecks and hillbillies is because country music is not the only type of music in their mainstream. They've had rock and pop as well as country so they haven't had just country music as their only choice. When it comes to black mainstream stations though, it has always been and still is R&B stations only. And what is 80 to 90 percent of what is played on current mainstream R&B stations? Shit hop. Sure, no one is restricted to listening to only those stations and is free to venture out and explore other genres, but the average young listener, and that goes for both black and white, listens to what their mainstream is. There are three mainstream white genres, there is only one black mainstream genre.

.

As for the heavy metal listeners committing suicide, sure some of them did but how often did that happen? As for the goth music making someone shoot up the schools, how often do the schools get shot up? As for the guy that shot up the theater during the "Batman" movie, he was one guy and how often has that happened? Those things don't happen on a regular routine day to day basis. The people that did those things were crazy as hell to begin with. On the other hand, turn on the local news and damn near every day, someone is being arrested for robbing places, shooting someone, or overall just general violent crimes and what does the majority of them look like when their picture is flashed across the screen? They look like these damn sorry ass trashy shit hoppers. You love throwing up exceptions and incidents that don't occur every day but I'm throwing up everyday routine shit that happens so I know shit hop has influenced it big time.

.

As for the white people listening to the shit hop, they do dress the part and talk the talk but it's strictly an act they're putting on. They're not going out and committing the crimes and violent acts because they're listening to it from the safety of their safe sheltered white world so the music is just fantasy or escapism to them.

.

.

.

[Edited 10/14/13 9:38am]

Great post!

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay so I was browsing a hip-hop website recently and I noticed that nearly all of the videos being promoted had something to do with drugs, guns and/or violence. It seems like these same themes keep getting rehashed and never seem to disappear from rap music. The conspiracy theorist in me often wonders if rap music has been hijacked by the "powers that be" to promote self-destruction to young people of color in urban areas across America. I am shocked that there hasn't been a shift away from the "thuggery" that has been prevalent in rap music for several years since usually trends only last a few years at a time. What gives? Is rap music being used to promote self-destruction? I saw a video clip of kids who were probably between ages 7-8 who were dressed up like gangsters and carrying toy guns. What's going on?

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

legendofnothing said:

Is it Rick Ross, Lil Wayne and Jay Z fault? Rap music forced guns and drugs into their hands? So your a empty headed robot? No accountability whatsoever..It is always someone elses fault?

It's the same thing with people talking about rappers should put out more positive messages. Speeches and messages only reach those who know or care about it. You can put out all of the conscious hip hop you want, but if no one wants to hear it, it's like playing gospel music for athiests. There's church rap, but like regular gospel, it's mostly the people who are already into the message that listens to it.

.

When there is a act that makes clean cut music or have a clean image with no scandal, people make fun of them (Kenny G., Pat & Debby Boone, Johnny Mathis) or call them whitebread and cheesy, like "cheesy" is a bad thing and not cool. KRS-One and his crew jumped PM Dawn at a concert once and pushed them off the stage because Prince Be called him a "teacher of what" in an interview. PM Dawn didn't put out negative messages in their music. KRS-One is supposed to be the conscious rapper, but he got upset over a basically harmless comment.

babynoz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay so I was browsing a hip-hop website recently and I noticed that nearly all of the videos being promoted had something to do with drugs, guns and/or violence. It seems like these same themes keep getting rehashed and never seem to disappear from rap music. The conspiracy theorist in me often wonders if rap music has been hijacked by the "powers that be" to promote self-destruction to young people of color in urban areas across America. I am shocked that there hasn't been a shift away from the "thuggery" that has been prevalent in rap music for several years since usually trends only last a few years at a time. What gives? Is rap music being used to promote self-destruction? I saw a video clip of kids who were probably between ages 7-8 who were dressed up like gangsters and carrying toy guns. What's going on?

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

... Glad everyone doesnt drink the kool aid

[Edited 10/14/13 14:43pm]

People keep bringing up drugs. More white people use drugs than black people, but more blacks and Latinos go to jail for it. Did rap do that? Just like there are more white folks on welfare, but when the word "welfare" is brought up, many people think black.

[Edited 10/14/13 14:44pm]

babynoz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay so I was browsing a hip-hop website recently and I noticed that nearly all of the videos being promoted had something to do with drugs, guns and/or violence. It seems like these same themes keep getting rehashed and never seem to disappear from rap music. The conspiracy theorist in me often wonders if rap music has been hijacked by the "powers that be" to promote self-destruction to young people of color in urban areas across America. I am shocked that there hasn't been a shift away from the "thuggery" that has been prevalent in rap music for several years since usually trends only last a few years at a time. What gives? Is rap music being used to promote self-destruction? I saw a video clip of kids who were probably between ages 7-8 who were dressed up like gangsters and carrying toy guns. What's going on?

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

amen, standing ovation, bravo.........gripping, poignant

every single word was 150% true......

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

amen, standing ovation, bravo.........gripping, poignant

every single word was 150% true......

I also appreciate the important points that both you and Mjcarousal raised.

Some others are making the mistaken assumption that events happen in a vacuum. Without context they tend to see a one dimensional picture and form their opinions accordingly.

babynoz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay so I was browsing a hip-hop website recently and I noticed that nearly all of the videos being promoted had something to do with drugs, guns and/or violence. It seems like these same themes keep getting rehashed and never seem to disappear from rap music. The conspiracy theorist in me often wonders if rap music has been hijacked by the "powers that be" to promote self-destruction to young people of color in urban areas across America. I am shocked that there hasn't been a shift away from the "thuggery" that has been prevalent in rap music for several years since usually trends only last a few years at a time. What gives? Is rap music being used to promote self-destruction? I saw a video clip of kids who were probably between ages 7-8 who were dressed up like gangsters and carrying toy guns. What's going on?

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

Your comment reminds me of what I have heard older blacks (say those in their 70s and 80s) say about the perils of desegregation. I think this and the other factors that you mention (crack cocaine epidemic) is what propels the nonsense in the music industry. It's almost like a non-stop glorification of failure that is repackaged as success. Great post, babynoz!

I forgot one other thing....I remember back in the day (and this implies of past generations before my time) it was a SHAMEFUL thing for a man to ask a woman for money. I think if a person found out that a man was getting money from a woman it was a huge sign that he was a failure of some sort in the black community. But now? You have rappers glorifying how they take money from women (re: lyrics to "Fancy" by Drake saying the ideal woman has money to loan men, wtf?). Aside from music, there are plenty of guys out there who are willing, able and eager to live with a woman, take money off of her and not think twice about any sort of shame. I don't know if rap music is entirely to blame for that BUT I can see how its glorification of destructive lifestyles has made it cool to be a loser basically.

SeventeenDayze said:

babynoz said:

Corporate rap music certainly is encouraging self destructive behavior.

People who pretend that things are the same as they always have been seem to have only a superficial understanding of the dynamic at work. While media is a powerful influence, it doesn't affect everyone the same way as Andy suggested in his comments.

First, the difference between now and then is that we had a lot more diversity within the music than we do now. We did not have this 24/7 media bombardment with thug culture that we have now. Nowadays few artists can get widespread promotion for a project that doesn't fit the profile being pushed by big media. Basically, what happened is the corporations hijacked an organic art form that grew from a subculture within urban America, monetized it and sold it back to us in a subverted form.

In other words, this is the corporatocracy's idea of black culture. They have not and most likely won't ever meet with much opposition since they have lots of cash to throw around and plenty of takers who just wanna get paid in exchange for access to "the good life". Their excuse is to say that they are "keepin it real" but this manufactured image is now being projected throughout the entire world as being the totality of "black culture".

Secondly, this is no longer the community from back in the day. One of the unintended consequences of desegregation is that where we used to be one community where white collar and blue collar blacks shared the same neighborhood, that's not the case anymore. In our desperation to ASSimiliate, the role models abandoned the old neighborhood for greener pastures and "colder ice", leaving the most vulnerable behind to be victimized by opportunists of every color.

This is one factor that made it possible for the crack cocaine epidemic and other self destructive mindsets to impact the culture so heavily. There was no longer a strong, cohesive foundation of people and institutions to offer resistance. Of course once the community was decimated in this way, who could blame people for wanting to get out and not look back? Very few have the knowledge, insight, ability or motivation to educate and empower others and many of those who try don't receive much support.

A community that is fragmented, not widely educated and empowered is much more vulnerable to various negative influences than their counterparts in other communities.

Your comment reminds me of what I have heard older blacks (say those in their 70s and 80s) say about the perils of desegregation. I think this and the other factors that you mention (crack cocaine epidemic) is what propels the nonsense in the music industry. It's almost like a non-stop glorification of failure that is repackaged as success. Great post, babynoz!

I'm not quite 70 yet but I am one of the oldsters who witnessed these changes first hand....

It certainly can be observed that former drug dealers are now over-represented in today's hip hop...that wasn't always the case.

I think that maybe some people misunderstood your comment and took it to mean that you were blaming rap music for all of the problems in the community when you clearly indicated that you were speaking of it as one tool.

legendofnothing said:

midnightmover said:

This naive post is typical of the warm, cosy and completely misguided attitude we are trained to adopt in this culture. You say it's all about personal responsibility, yet by your own admission your own positive attitude was instilled in you by your father. It's very easy for someone who's had that kind of luck to dismiss environmental influences. What you're effectively doing is stigmatizing victims. You don't mean to do it, but it's what you're doing.

You need to drop that all-American individualistic framework and look at the bigger picture. Peoples' destinies are shaped by forces which they are usually barely conscious of. Society is the big one. By blaming individuals you are ignoring this deeper reality. In effect you're becoming an apologist for the system wthout realizing it. It's not the system that's at fault it's the people themselves! They were born lazy, bad, stupid, etc. If only they could be as smart as you, eh?

Oh and one other thing: Spike Lee's an idiot.

Do you feel better now? I don't know Spike Lee personally so I can't really comment on his IQ score. "Bamboozled" the film is still fascinating and underrated imo. Now for the remainder of your post. Naive? Misguided? Hell yeah my parents instilled values, honor, morals, character and a hard work ethic into me. Thats right, no shame I'll admit it. But just because they led me to the water, did not mean I had to drink it. You must like playing the blame game and being the victim. Its the forces or destiny around us that cause people to give up and accept failure and mediocrity? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. I would never want to be a student in your classroom.

Attention all students: "You're all doomed, there is no need in trying to overcome your circumstance. You will always be a loser no matter what. The invisible forces are against you. Now close your books, go home, accept your fate and die."

Nope, I don't play the victim. The black community has gotten way out of line. Whenever someone comes along to address the fact that fathers are missing in action and need to raise their kids, they get tarred and feathered. Ask Bill Cosby. Black on black killing is at an all time high. Why? Is it Rick Ross, Lil Wayne and Jay Z fault? Rap music forced guns and drugs into their hands? So your a empty headed robot? No accountability whatsoever..It is always someone elses fault? Well keep on living like that playa. Young black men will continue to get locked up, killed and thrown to the wayside until the Black community stops making excuses and stops being weak. Nobody said it was gonna be easy.

Spoken like a true zombie. I believe in effective action and you have absolutely nothing to offer on that score because you've been tricked by relentless propaganda. You're failing to analyse the system because you think it's all about the individual. But individuals do not live in a vacuum. Just think through the implications of what you're saying; if all the blame or praise must go to the individual then what does that say about black people? They're at the bottom of the heap. If what you say is true then that must be because they're inferior. There can be no other explanation if your worldview is correct. It's not the system, so what else could it be? The racists were right obviously. And those huge amounts of black men in prison must just mean that they are naturally bad people. It couldn't have anything to do with deliberate policy choices could it? The outsourcing of industry to China, maybe? Deliberately clustering blacks into segregated ghettoes? Failing to provide them with decent schools? The profits made by contractors who are paid to keep prisons full? Racism? Ever thought about the growing class inequality of the last 35 years? No, none of that matters. No, these blacks are obviously just stupid. Like you've said, they have no-one to blame but themselves.

As for your own life, your parents couldn't force you to take the right path, but they could certainly help. Many people don't have the same lucky start. That's a fact. By dismissing that truth you are being intellectually lazy.

And lest I be misunderstood, let me make it clear - I'm not defending the stupid behaviour of these kids. But there are reasons for their ignorance and stupidity. There are cycles that are hard to break. Thug culture is just a symptom. They are powerless people trying to feel some kind of power in the only way they know how. That is sad, but it's to be expected given the way things are set up. Nothing less than a restructuring of our society and economy will change that. Just telling individuals to take responsibility is worse than useless as a strategy. But that line is very convenient to the powers that be. It stops ordinary people from asking the bigger questions.

babynoz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Your comment reminds me of what I have heard older blacks (say those in their 70s and 80s) say about the perils of desegregation. I think this and the other factors that you mention (crack cocaine epidemic) is what propels the nonsense in the music industry. It's almost like a non-stop glorification of failure that is repackaged as success. Great post, babynoz!

I'm not quite 70 yet but I am one of the oldsters who witnessed these changes first hand....

It certainly can be observed that former drug dealers are now over-represented in today's hip hop...that wasn't always the case.

I think that maybe some people misunderstood your comment and took it to mean that you were blaming rap music for all of the problems in the community when you clearly indicated that you were speaking of it as one tool.

Whoops, didn't mean to suggest that you were anywhere near 70

But yes, I think you get the general idea of what I was getting at

It still baffles me though that the number one rapper (saleswise) is Eminem but if he decided to just put on a suit and tie and join a country club or if he gets arrested, he wouldn't do much jail time and he's not representative of the white male American populace....now, what's that statistic about black men in prison again?.....

midnightmover said:

As for your own life, your parents couldn't force you to take the right path, but they could certainly help. Many people don't have the same lucky start. That's a fact. By dismissing that truth you are being intellectually lazy.

And lest I be misunderstood, let me make it clear - I'm not defending the stupid behaviour of these kids. But there are reasons for their ignorance and stupidity. There are cycles that are hard to break. Thug culture is just a symptom. They are powerless people trying to feel some kind of power in the only way they know how. That is sad, but it's to be expected given the way things are set up. Nothing less than a restructuring of our society and economy will change that. Just telling individuals to take responsibility is worse than useless as a strategy. But that line is very convenient to the powers that be. It stops ordinary people from asking the bigger questions.

Wow...this was really well said. This post can pretty much apply to anything. We live in a very individulistic society which is why most Americans think this way. That is why most people dont express their opinion and just go along with the norm because its consequences for challenging the norm. As a result, we are left with the same mess because people dont want to speak up about the real issues and problems that we have. The "intellectually lazy" is a interesting way to describe the non open minded... I am gonna take that

SeventeenDayze said:

babynoz said:

I'm not quite 70 yet but I am one of the oldsters who witnessed these changes first hand....

It certainly can be observed that former drug dealers are now over-represented in today's hip hop...that wasn't always the case.

I think that maybe some people misunderstood your comment and took it to mean that you were blaming rap music for all of the problems in the community when you clearly indicated that you were speaking of it as one tool.

Whoops, didn't mean to suggest that you were anywhere near 70

But yes, I think you get the general idea of what I was getting at

It still baffles me though that the number one rapper (saleswise) is Eminem but if he decided to just put on a suit and tie and join a country club or if he gets arrested, he wouldn't do much jail time and he's not representative of the white male American populace....now, what's that statistic about black men in prison again?.....

Tis okay...I embrace my elder status!

And you hit on a key point that Andy was making. For Eminem and the like they can dabble in it and even be successful but ultimately it's a novelty thing since his options are more varied and the chances of his whole demographic being labelled as thugs is not very likely.

CynicKill said:

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

As for the white people listening to the shit hop, they do dress the part and talk the talk but it's strictly an act they're putting on. They're not going out and committing the crimes and violent acts because they're listening to it from the safety of their safe sheltered white world so the music is just fantasy or escapism to them.

Well then, if rap makes people do crime, it will make everyone that listens to it commit crimes. It won't work differently on different people. It won't make a difference if the person has a lot of money or has none. If a venomous snake bites someone, it won't affect a poor person differently than a rich one. If hip hop causes black people to commit crime and to white people it's just a costume and escapism, then you're saying blacks are stupid and can be brainwashed easily because they can't determine rap is "escapism entertainment" like the smart sheltered white people in the suburbs. It's the same old "comic books are bad for kids" thing again. They took comic book companies to court in the 1940s & 50s. Comic books are still here. They tried to shut down rock n roll with the payola hearings apparently forgetting that there was payola with pre-rock popular music. But that music was ok with the Tipper Gore's of the world.

So that's your response? To twist it around and try to make it look like I said that every single black person that listens to shit hop goes out and commits these crimes?

.

No, shit hop is not the only thing contributing to these crimes. A lot of it has to do with how someone is raised and that goes for all races. There are many young black people that listen to it who view it as the same way as many of these white suburban kids view it, just strictly something to listen to and maybe dress and act the part without really going out and following up on the things preached in the lyrics. It's escapism to them too like simply watching a crime show on TV. However, if someone actually lives in these run down areas that these songs constantly refer to and feel they have no hope for the future of things ever getting better and also have no guidance from someone who has some good sense, they are much more likely to go out and immitate the bullshit robbing and violence being preached in these songs than someone who has some guidance. And before you start twisting things around and start saying that not everyone in these areas is without guidance, which I know you love twisting things around, yes, many young people in these areas have guidance from someone who has some sense. However, there are also many people that don't so peer pressure kicks in. Especially when you're being preached to by some idiots in these songs that acting a damn fool and being ignorant is "the way you're supposed to be" or a bunch of bulshit of how a "real nigga" is.

.

You know all this already, you just like to be difficult and act is if statements are referring to each and every single person that listens to this bullshit in order to seem "politically correct". Do you work for a record label or something and trying to plead a case for them? Hell, I don't believe in censorship in any form, not even in the case of shit hop. Hey, if somebody has horrible enough taste to actually think it sounds good, well, that's their bad taste, not mine. It only makes them look ignorant, not me. But what I am against, is something like shit hop, which is the cheapest made bunch of "nothing" so called "music" and also THE most boring genre that has ever been in all of music history, I mean, a genre so damn boring that it makes classical music sound funky, being the ONLY form of black music that gets any airplay on mainstream R&B radio stations. As many have said before, "you have to search for good music", well yes, I've "searched" and I've also "found" a few good tracks. But for the good stuff not to get played simply because it's not shit hop and not as cheap to make as shit hop and could threaten shit hop's existence if it ever got popular and caught on, now THAT's censorship.

.

Considering that there are bigger forces at work such as monopolized record labels and radio stations keeping shit hop alive by keeping everything else out and preventing complete style changes from occuring every decade like they used to, if people want to encourage people against shit hop due to the content of the lyrics or the negative influence it may have on the community, then I'm all for it. My beef with shit hop has never been about it's lyrical content because it sounds like a damn dog fight and you can't really hear most of the lyrics anyway. My beef with it is because it's the worst sounding music in music history and we didn't have a complete style change when the year 2000 arived after we lived through a decade of that bullshit dominating the R&B world, and now we're into the 2010s and STILL haven't had a complete style change yet. So hey, my attitude now is "whatever it takes to kill it, just kill it".

.

.

.

[Edited 10/15/13 9:26am]

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay so I was browsing a hip-hop website recently and I noticed that nearly all of the videos being promoted had something to do with drugs, guns and/or violence. It seems like these same themes keep getting rehashed and never seem to disappear from rap music. The conspiracy theorist in me often wonders if rap music has been hijacked by the "powers that be" to promote self-destruction to young people of color in urban areas across America. I am shocked that there hasn't been a shift away from the "thuggery" that has been prevalent in rap music for several years since usually trends only last a few years at a time. What gives? Is rap music being used to promote self-destruction? I saw a video clip of kids who were probably between ages 7-8 who were dressed up like gangsters and carrying toy guns. What's going on?

Nowadays, it's exploitation, built on racism, violence, poverty, sexism, and oppresion. Some consider rap a religion, and whomever created holy hip hop was out of their mind.

...but laughing all the way to the bank. As self-destruction continues.

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

Well then, if rap makes people do crime, it will make everyone that listens to it commit crimes. It won't work differently on different people. It won't make a difference if the person has a lot of money or has none. If a venomous snake bites someone, it won't affect a poor person differently than a rich one. If hip hop causes black people to commit crime and to white people it's just a costume and escapism, then you're saying blacks are stupid and can be brainwashed easily because they can't determine rap is "escapism entertainment" like the smart sheltered white people in the suburbs. It's the same old "comic books are bad for kids" thing again. They took comic book companies to court in the 1940s & 50s. Comic books are still here. They tried to shut down rock n roll with the payola hearings apparently forgetting that there was payola with pre-rock popular music. But that music was ok with the Tipper Gore's of the world.

So that's your response? To twist it around and try to make it look like I said that every single black person that listens to shit hop goes out and commits these crimes?

.

No, shit hop is not the only thing contributing to these crimes. A lot of it has to do with how someone is raised and that goes for all races. There are many young black people that listen to it who view it as the same way as many of these white suburban kids view it, just strictly something to listen to and maybe dress and act the part without really going out and following up on the things preached in the lyrics. It's escapism to them too like simply watching a crime show on TV. However, if someone actually lives in these run down areas that these songs constantly refer to and feel they have no hope for the future of things ever getting better and also have no guidance from someone who has some good sense, they are much more likely to go out and immitate the bullshit robbing and violence being preached in these songs than someone who has some guidance. And before you start twisting things around and start saying that not everyone in these areas is without guidance, which I know you love twisting things around, yes, many young people in these areas have guidance from someone who has some sense. However, there are also many people that don't so peer pressure kicks in. Especially when you're being preached to by some idiots in these songs that acting a damn fool and being ignorant is "the way you're supposed to be" or a bunch of bulshit of how a "real nigga" is.

.

You know all this already, you just like to be difficult and act is if statements are referring to each and every single person that listens to this bullshit in order to seem "politically correct". Do you work for a record label or something and trying to plead a case for them? Hell, I don't believe in censorship in any form, not even in the case of shit hop. Hey, if somebody has horrible enough taste to actually think it sounds good, well, that's their bad taste, not mine. It only makes them look ignorant, not me. But what I am against, is something like shit hop, which is the cheapest made bunch of "nothing" so called "music" and also THE most boring genre that has ever been in all of music history, I mean, a genre so damn boring that it makes classical music sound funky, being the ONLY form of black music that gets any airplay on mainstream R&B radio stations. As many have said before, "you have to search for good music", well yes, I've "searched" and I've also "found" a few good tracks. But for the good stuff not to get played simply because it's not shit hop and not as cheap to make as shit hop and could threaten shit hop's existence if it ever got popular and caught on, now THAT's censorship.

.

Considering that there are bigger forces at work such as monopolized record labels and radio stations keeping shit hop alive by keeping everything else out and preventing complete style changes from occuring every decade like they used to, if people want to encourage people against shit hop due to the content of the lyrics or the negative influence it may have on the community, then I'm all for it. My beef with shit hop has never been about it's lyrical content because it sounds like a damn dog fight and you can't really hear most of the lyrics anyway. My beef with it is because it's the worst sounding music in music history and we didn't have a complete style change when the year 2000 arived after we lived through a decade of that bullshit dominating the R&B world, and now we're into the 2010s and STILL haven't had a complete style change yet. So hey, my attitude now is "whatever it takes to kill it, just kill it".

.

.

.

[Edited 10/15/13 9:26am]

Excellent points, Andy! I think you're right about the fact that there hasn't been a style change over like there used to be back in the day. Okay, remember when it was unheard of for a rapper in their late 20s to be popular? I mean, the early rap groups only had 2-3 years at the most of being big hits before they were cycled out. But in 2013? Why in the world are Eminem, Jay-Z, Lil Wayne still relevant? For a rapper to have a career spanning two, nearly three decades was unheard of back in the day and now it's like, when are these guys going to go away? It's not like they have a new style or new theme they are rapping about? I mean, imagine if disco were STILL popular in 2013 and the same disco artists from back in the day were still MAINSTREAM (not nostalagia acts). THAT is part of the problem as well. It's like this stuff is on repeat and nobody is changing the station......

But for the good stuff not to get played simply because it's not shit hop and not as cheap to make as shit hop and could threaten shit hop's existence if it ever got popular and caught on, now THAT's censorship.

.

That's not why gangsta rap gets played so much though. It gets played so much because it's popular. Major labels will champion anything that makes money whether it's considered good, bad or neutral on a moral level. Remember when all those "positive" hip hop groups went Top 40? Mr. Wendal making me feel guilty for eating lunch every day? It's not like labels tried to suppress that.

The thread title assumes there is one oppressor manipulating radio playlists or label signings for a sinister agenda and I don't think that's the case.

I just read an article in Salon by some lady about how "FOX News brainwashed my dad". I get really impatient with these kinds of arguments because her dad has every right as an American to tune himself into a feedback loop where every piece of news he gets is tailored to fit his view of the world. That guy's not being brainwashed - he's placed himself into a feedback loop of his own free will. It's unfortunate, sure, but it's not like any evil person did this to him.

People with no intellectual curiosity are going to find feedback loops out there that make them very comfortable.

You might not have mass culture that respects musical value anymore, which is sad - but it's not like we white folks do either. Have you listened to white pop radio lately?