MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

I love hip hop/rap too but I am not going to join a gang or purchase a gun because my favorite rapper said it was "cool" in his rap song but then again I dont think I would leisurely listen to mindless rap music like that unless Im at a club where I dont have control over what is being played lol.

When I went to school, they had us reading Shakespeare and Edgar Allen Poe, which is just as violent and maybe more so. The Grapes Of Wrath had profanity in it. Why is Shakespeare ok, but not rap or video games? What is the difference?

Rap is blaxploitation. Shakespeare isn't.

Scorp said:

GoldDolphin said:

MickyDolenz said:I wonder why some people think rap is supposed to teach their audience something, when other types of music doesn't get the same kind of comments. There were those people saying heavy metal make their listeners commit suicide or worship Satan, but they still didn't say that it's supposed to teach or uplift the community. I don't hear country fans saying that it causes people to be rednecks or hillbillies, because that isn't the case. Blaming rap for problems is no different than saying that listening to goth music makes someone shoot up a mall or school. Did Batman make that guy shoot up a movie theater? Does going to a soccer game make people riot? More than likely if someone is going to do something, they were going to do it anyway. Since is been said that white people purchase the larger percentage of rap records, why doesn't it effect them in the same way, if it causes behavior. . Decades ago folks tried to blame comic books, westerns, rock 'n roll, jazz, "race music", The Beatles, 1950's juvenile deliquent movies, cartoons, flappers, Three Stooges, hippies, etc. They always blame something else. In the 1930's, they came up with the Hayes Code for movies, then there were the Hoover/McCarthy witchhunts. If you listen to old blues and country songs, a lot of them have the same kind of subject matter as a gangsta rap song, but maybe without the profanity. Gangs have existed long before there was even a recording industry. It isn't the job of music to teach anything, that's what books and libraries are for. THANK YOU! U always speak the truth imo!

there's allot of blood on people's hands

I see self destruction every single day in my community

we don't come out the womb, we are not born into this world with self destructive tendency

it is cultivated, tought, encouraged, and we are pointed to that direction

I've seen it transpire since the summer of 1987 when I was 15 years old and you could feel the tidalwave as to what was soon coming forth

but the thing is, there will come a day when we gone all have to wake up and see things exactly for what they are.........

I bet if these young artists who have pursued rap music stress to their music representatives that they will not project self destructive content, that they will not use profanity in their records, then we'll see who's who, and see if they would be given the same opportunity otherwise...

women are now sporting a sea of tattoos on their bodies in these videos and young girls, teenage girls, college age girls, grown women, mature women, women in their 50s and 60s are sporting multi tattoos everywhere in sight.........arms, forearms, wrists, hands, fingers, neck, chest, breasts, shoulderblade, behind the neck, the upper back, the lower back, the entire leg, the upper leg, the lower leg, the calf, the ankle, the feet, toes, stomach.....all of this w/their hair shaved off on the side...............I see it every single day.........wing tattoos, tattoos supposedly representing cultures who don't even represent the tattooed image, flanks, symbols, sentences, paragraphs, anything u can think of.....the whole nine....they have covered up their bodies so much is almost as if you can't even see them

and the only reason they are doing it, is because they see prominent people on tv do it......

women are being masculinized, men are being feminized........

the thug image aint' even real.........it is concocted

that's how bad it's gotten......

[Edited 10/11/13 15:54pm]

Ehm? I don't understand why you are talking about tattoos? And if the late 80s and 90s generation of kids want to have tattoos - LET THEM (I pressume that's ppl u are talking about anyways)! It's not your life, mind your own shit and keep it moving. I don't have tattoos because I feel it doesn't mean much to me, but if I as a woman would have a tattoo it wouldn't make me more masculine. Have you ever talked to a at least 20 different people of this generation (ages 14-25) in 20 different countries to be suggesting that the world looks the way you see it? You are also being manipulated by the media and blogs and such if you believe what people say about this generation.

Lets go back to the real problem though,which is the government not doing shit for these kids who shoot other kids. Lets get the government to pay for better (free) education for everybody and not just a select bunch. Lets improve the life of the average miniority and give their parents a chance to get a nice decent job. Lets not destroy the communities by infecting it with drugs and weapons. That's the REAL problem, not RAP music. Rap music is the voice of those who live in those type of situations and since many of them have not seen another reality and most likely won't see another reality, they need to express it somehow. Sometimes it sounds violent because that's mostly how people (the outsiders) view them, other times it sounds strange(because we don't understand what we don't go through).

GoldDolphin said:

Scorp said:

there's allot of blood on people's hands

I see self destruction every single day in my community

we don't come out the womb, we are not born into this world with self destructive tendency

it is cultivated, tought, encouraged, and we are pointed to that direction

I've seen it transpire since the summer of 1987 when I was 15 years old and you could feel the tidalwave as to what was soon coming forth

but the thing is, there will come a day when we gone all have to wake up and see things exactly for what they are.........

I bet if these young artists who have pursued rap music stress to their music representatives that they will not project self destructive content, that they will not use profanity in their records, then we'll see who's who, and see if they would be given the same opportunity otherwise...

women are now sporting a sea of tattoos on their bodies in these videos and young girls, teenage girls, college age girls, grown women, mature women, women in their 50s and 60s are sporting multi tattoos everywhere in sight.........arms, forearms, wrists, hands, fingers, neck, chest, breasts, shoulderblade, behind the neck, the upper back, the lower back, the entire leg, the upper leg, the lower leg, the calf, the ankle, the feet, toes, stomach.....all of this w/their hair shaved off on the side...............I see it every single day.........wing tattoos, tattoos supposedly representing cultures who don't even represent the tattooed image, flanks, symbols, sentences, paragraphs, anything u can think of.....the whole nine....they have covered up their bodies so much is almost as if you can't even see them

and the only reason they are doing it, is because they see prominent people on tv do it......

women are being masculinized, men are being feminized........

the thug image aint' even real.........it is concocted

that's how bad it's gotten......

[Edited 10/11/13 15:54pm]

Ehm? I don't understand why you are talking about tattoos? And if the late 80s and 90s generation of kids want to have tattoos - LET THEM (I pressume that's ppl u are talking about anyways)! It's not your life, mind your own shit and keep it moving. I don't have tattoos because I feel it doesn't mean much to me, but if I as a woman would have a tattoo it wouldn't make me more masculine. Have you ever talked to a at least 20 different people of this generation (ages 14-25) in 20 different countries to be suggesting that the world looks the way you see it? You are also being manipulated by the media and blogs and such if you believe what people say about this generation.

Lets go back to the real problem though,which is the government not doing shit for these kids who shoot other kids. Lets get the government to pay for better (free) education for everybody and not just a select bunch. Lets improve the life of the average miniority and give their parents a chance to get a nice decent job. Lets not destroy the communities by infecting it with drugs and weapons. That's the REAL problem, not RAP music. Rap music is the voice of those who live in those type of situations and since many of them have not seen another reality and most likely won't see another reality, they need to express it somehow. Sometimes it sounds violent because that's mostly how people (the outsiders) view them, other times it sounds strange(because we don't understand what we don't go through).

I never said Rap Music, the actual genre should be blamed....

it's how it has been used over time to project self destructive tendency and how my community at large has internalized it that is the problem since black youth listen to rap music more than anything other forms of music......

yes, the tattoos are a major problem, and every single day, I see how black people and youth at large are being led estray all for the sake of the mighty dollar.....

nobody should be viewed as a minority, that's another problem, we are all human beings

we we call a group a minority, we are actually marginilizing their existence and therefore the root of what's causing the social, economic, political, cultural challenges in those community never get addressed........

I've seen children change on a dime because of this stuff......

and years down the line, all these women who are covering up their bodies w/markings, they will come to regret it, because many already have stated so

I'm not being manipulated by anyone......I very seldom watch tv or listen to commercial radio anymore......I seek to read as much as I can from books that have been published decades ago from people who thru observation predicted much of what we are witnessing today....

our public schools are being shut down intensionally in urban cities across the country, public education will be gone in two decades, maybe 15 years........an entire community is being phased out from the american populace while being led to live in an illusion that we're not.....

explicit lyrical content in music should have never been allowed within any musical genre but our government stamped its approval intentionally in order to accelerate self destructive dynamic within my community, the government could eradicate the drug trade and the proliferation of weapons tomorrow if it really wanted to but it's never going to happen...

new maximum security prisons are taking the place of public education intentionally, and out of the new prisoners who will be incarcerated, who's going to be incarcerated more than any other group?

there's always been artists who have sung or highlighted their struggles living in neglect, Rap is not the first music that presented those realities

and I talk about tattoos because I would not want to be with a woman who has stamped her entire bodyframe w/markings splattered across it....no way....

CynicKill said:

She tried to tell us:

.......and then Suge Knight and (especially) Jimmy Iovine tried to destroy her.

Scorp said:

legendofnothing said:

You know the answer to your question already. Yes the "Powers that be" hijacked the artform years ago. Hell, there was even a rap song called 'Self Destruction'. The problem I have though is regardless of how guns, drugs, thuggery, bufoonery, disrepect of women and the lack of taking personal responsibility is glorified in the music, when does being a parent come into play? Why blame the music or any other creative outlet? How come young girls are constantly on Maury looking for their multiple babies daddies? Somewhere down the line parents put their heads in the sand and refuse to come up for air. Because if they do, then they will have no choice but to look into the mirror and blame themselves for not raising their kids with love and discipline and allowing the media to do the their jobs for them. C'mon 7 years old dressed like a gangsta! Mommy and daddy need a serious ass whooping and a visit from the Child Protective Agency. Good thread...Btw

parents can't be blamed for everything....

I'll never forget in the late 80s, actually 1990, Oprah Winfrey held a program about explicit lyrical content

and a women in the audience (when audiences were allowed to participate in discourse), a black mother in the 30s explain specifically how the music her son was listening too was not only changing his behavior but changing his self image and his outlook on life.........she was a working mother, it wasn't like she was neglecting her child.......

parents can't monitor their children 24 hours a day...it's impossible.......

she told the truth, but the people who should have been listening to her didn't want anything to do with what she said....

it's about making billions and exploitation w/out consideration for what's going to happen down the line

in the late 80s, early 90s, in my hometown, you saw young cats not even had reached puberty yet flashing gang signs, because of what was being projected on television and music and video

we had an infiltration of blood and crip activity that swarmed my neighborhood for about 2 years.......

there was no deviation from the music they was listening to, it was all one single genre after it had been hijacked and commercialized......

and of course, the the gang phenomenon excascerbated because of the drug trade pushed in our communities (facilitated by this government), and it could have been stamped out before the 1980s hit, but law enforcement did not want it to cease......

but as the famous words say "the chickens will come home to roost" sooner or later, more like sooner because it's roosting now

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

SeventeenDayze said:

Scorp said:

parents can't be blamed for everything....

I'll never forget in the late 80s, actually 1990, Oprah Winfrey held a program about explicit lyrical content

and a women in the audience (when audiences were allowed to participate in discourse), a black mother in the 30s explain specifically how the music her son was listening too was not only changing his behavior but changing his self image and his outlook on life.........she was a working mother, it wasn't like she was neglecting her child.......

parents can't monitor their children 24 hours a day...it's impossible.......

she told the truth, but the people who should have been listening to her didn't want anything to do with what she said....

it's about making billions and exploitation w/out consideration for what's going to happen down the line

in the late 80s, early 90s, in my hometown, you saw young cats not even had reached puberty yet flashing gang signs, because of what was being projected on television and music and video

we had an infiltration of blood and crip activity that swarmed my neighborhood for about 2 years.......

there was no deviation from the music they was listening to, it was all one single genre after it had been hijacked and commercialized......

and of course, the the gang phenomenon excascerbated because of the drug trade pushed in our communities (facilitated by this government), and it could have been stamped out before the 1980s hit, but law enforcement did not want it to cease......

but as the famous words say "the chickens will come home to roost" sooner or later, more like sooner because it's roosting now

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

exactly

GoldDolphin said:

Lets go back to the real problem though,which is the government not doing shit for these kids who shoot other kids. Lets get the government to pay for better (free) education for everybody and not just a select bunch. Lets improve the life of the average miniority and give their parents a chance to get a nice decent job. Lets not destroy the communities by infecting it with drugs and weapons. That's the REAL problem, not RAP music. Rap music is the voice of those who live in those type of situations and since many of them have not seen another reality and most likely won't see another reality, they need to express it somehow. Sometimes it sounds violent because that's mostly how people (the outsiders) view them, other times it sounds strange(because we don't understand what we don't go through).

Well said, I agree with this entire post but I want to comment on the bolded.

*******

You're right, Hip hop/rap is a sub-culture that is reflecting a way of life for alot of minorities in the inner city, slums, ghetto etc. However, I think people have a misconception of what IS hip hop and what isnt. Drake, Lil Wayne, Nikki, Jay Z etc thats NOT hip hop. They are mainstream millionare rappers and what they are expressing does NOT reflect the realities and hardships that these minorities specifically black youth experience in those type of circumstances. I love hip hop/rap with everything in my body but I am not going to say every rap song that plays on the radio is a "true" reflection" of what these black males, children, minorities etc go through because it isnt.

********

They are mainstream rappers selling and marketing a product FOR MONEY. They are not making songs about the difficulties in being a black man, racism, the black experience, struggle, life in the ghetto, low self esteem, family at risk drama, rape, social issues such as Trayvon Martin case etc. There music does not reflect that culture. Rapping about "bling bling", how much richer you are than me and how many houses you own is not depicting "hip hop" in they way you described.

*******

Yes, Once UPON a time, Hip Hop was a form of expression, was a open diary, and a way to bring the hidden secrets of those life stories to the surface but like musicjunky said it got lost when money, government (a great point you made , and the corporate machine got involved. Now its just another marketing tool and it currently isnt talking about much of... nothing. It isnt a form of " free expression" like it once was because its more "controlled" which was some of the points the OP was making. I think its purposely controlled to depict those artificial and materialistic themes

********

So yes, I agree the government can do alot to help those demographics BUT I also dont see anything wrong in discussing how hip hop has changed (because it has changed) and how it currently is doing more bad than good in how it reflects its people. To me it just shows that these millionaires dont care about those issues that you mentioned which IS ironically apart of Hip Hop. Those issues and hardship experiences is partially how hip hop was created in the first place. I am not expecting those rappers to teach me anything but I wouldnt say what they make is Hip Hop or argue that their music doesnt influence. Everything around us influences which has the potential to indirectly teach us.

Scorp said:

yes, the tattoos are a major problem,

I see tattoo magazines at the store and most of the people in them are white. Also there are tribal/cultural tattoos (.ie Samoan), scarification in Africa, piercings, body modification like ear plugs & subdermal implants, and people who do suspension with hooks. Are you saying all of these people have a problem and do bad things? What's it to you what they put on their body?

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

yes, the tattoos are a major problem,

I see tattoo magazines at the store and most of the people in them are white. Also there are tribal/cultural tattoos (.ie Samoan), scarification in Africa, piercings, body modification like ear plugs & subdermal implants, and people who do suspension with hooks. Are you saying all of these people have a problem and do bad things? What's it to you what they put on their body?

I didn't say what culture of women was getting the most tattoos vs others......

I'm saying in my community, when it comes to the thousands and thousands of black women are getting tattoos....the question is why and how many of them are already regretting that they had them applied to begin with when they really sit down and talk w/you...

and it aint just the women that are getting them, it's young girls are getting them to emulate the grown women they see sporting them.......women in their 50s and 60s who know good and well they aint got no business getting them are now sporting them...they just want to feel accepted

and it aint just one tattoo, they are getting a sea of tattoos.......and if this stuff is proliferating the way it is, there's no way every tattoo parlor is adhering to safety standards and using clean needles everytime....so now the issue of acquiring hepatitis becomes a huge factor

and many of these women u just showed me, I bet when we fast forward 20 years from now, they will be sitting there shellshocked as to what possessed them to desecrate their body the way they did when they was younger and how they wish they could have them removed......

I saw a grown woman in her 60s at the grocery months back and she had tattoos on her arms and legs and back.......she spends 60 years of her life not even thinking about sporting a tattoo, and then boom all of a sudden as she approaches retirement, she follows suit......there is something totally wrong w/that picture......what in the world is that going to do for her personally,...nothing

you're bringing up women who alter their skin w/tattoos as cultural meaning or custom, but for the black women who are getting them by the droves, their choice has nothing to do w/culture or custom, they are influenced by what they see on tv and in these videos....it's as simple as that

they weren't sporting tattoos in teh 1940s, the 1950s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or even the recent decade, this has sprung up within the past 3 years in ferocity, which indicates there is a force behind all of this

we will see where all this results in a decade from now...we'll see what's up in year 2020

at some point, there has to be boundaries...at some point, there has to be enough is enough

for when all boundaries are jaded and blurred, the only thing left is self destruction

whether it's on an individual level, a group level, a community level, or a national level

my community is suffering and we are dying inside

[Edited 10/12/13 11:05am]

Scorp said:

and many of these women u just showed me, I bet when we fast forward 20 years from now, they will be sitting there shellshocked as to what possessed them to desecrate their body the way they did when they was younger and how they wish they could have them removed......

I saw a grown woman in her 60s at the grocery months back and she had tattoos on her arms and legs and back.......she spends 60 years of her life not even thinking about sporting a tattoo, and then boom all of a sudden as she approaches retirement, she follows suit......there is something totally wrong w/that picture......what in the world is that going to do for her personally,...nothing

you're bringing up women who alter their skin w/tattoos as cultural meaning or custom, but for the black women who are getting them by the droves, their choice has nothing to do w/culture or custom, they are influenced by what they see on tv and in these videos....it's as simple as that

they weren't sporting tattoos in teh 1940s, the 1950s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or even the recent decade, this has sprung up within the past 3 years in ferocity, which indicates there is a force behind all of this

[Edited 10/12/13 11:13am]

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

and many of these women u just showed me, I bet when we fast forward 20 years from now, they will be sitting there shellshocked as to what possessed them to desecrate their body the way they did when they was younger and how they wish they could have them removed......

I saw a grown woman in her 60s at the grocery months back and she had tattoos on her arms and legs and back.......she spends 60 years of her life not even thinking about sporting a tattoo, and then boom all of a sudden as she approaches retirement, she follows suit......there is something totally wrong w/that picture......what in the world is that going to do for her personally,...nothing

you're bringing up women who alter their skin w/tattoos as cultural meaning or custom, but for the black women who are getting them by the droves, their choice has nothing to do w/culture or custom, they are influenced by what they see on tv and in these videos....it's as simple as that

they weren't sporting tattoos in teh 1940s, the 1950s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or even the recent decade, this has sprung up within the past 3 years in ferocity, which indicates there is a force behind all of this

Whenever you break tradition, you know people always recoil in shock about it. But if nobody ever broke tradition, we'd still look like George Washington. ~ David Lee Roth

[Edited 10/12/13 11:13am]

when u see 8 year, 10 year old girls w/there total arms clouded in ink......that's a problem

when there are no more boundaries left, it's toast at that point----"the powers of the universe"

[Edited 10/12/13 11:33am]

Scorp said:

when u see 8 year, 10 year old girls w/there total arms clouded in ink......that's a problem

when there are no more boundaries left, it's toast at that point----"the powers of the universe"

[Edited 10/12/13 11:33am]

It's a problem to you. I don't see anything wrong with it. Having a tattoo doesn't have anything to do with how a person behaves. They don't make a person good or bad. Adolph Hitler and Idi Amin had no tattoos.

.

You're talking about tattoos and rap music, but not about the steroids and hormones put in animals used for meat/dairy that are making childrens bodies mature earlier, the artificial colors and sugar put in the foods they eat, giving them psychiatric drugs, etc. Doctors and the pharmaceutical industry are the biggest drug dealers around.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

when u see 8 year, 10 year old girls w/there total arms clouded in ink......that's a problem

when there are no more boundaries left, it's toast at that point----"the powers of the universe"

[Edited 10/12/13 11:33am]

It's a problem to you. I don't see anything wrong with it. Having a tattoo doesn't have anything to do with how a person behaves. They don't make a person good or bad. Adolph Hitler and Idi Amin had no tattoos.

.

You're talking about tattoos and rap music, but not about the steroids and hormones put in animals used for meat/dairy that are making childrens bodies mature earlier, the artificial colors and sugar put in the foods they eat, giving them psychiatric drugs, etc. Doctors and the pharmaceutical industry are the biggest drug dealers around.

I'm talking about everything...the whole nine

I did not call out rap music in of itself, I'm talking about what the forefathers who crafted this music warned the people back in 1978, when they said if the music was ever commercialized it would be destroyed........

I'm talking about how all of a sudden out the box, society is being socially engineered to exhibit behavior they never would have imagine if they were allowed to develop sound reasoning, where teenagers are immediately overwhelmed with content and imagery they are unable to discern

black women, women as a whole in this country would not be so eager to spray their bodies with ink if it was not being promoted so heavily........

young men, grown men would not be sagging their pants if this was not being promoted to them for the past 25 plus years....when they don't know that saggin originated in prisons in the 70s to indicate if someone belonged to someone else......

when u see an 8 year old girl, a girl who's just starting to understand the basic concepts and u take her and spray her body up w/ink.......there's no way anyone is going to tell me that's legit because I know better......

and another main reason women in my community are getting them is because their boyfriend, husbands are telling them to get em, so they are doing it out of being pressured....

but as I mentioned, we'll see what's up by decade's end because many women, women in my community are already regretted all the tattoos that they got

because I can see it in their "language"

[Edited 10/12/13 12:27pm]

Scorp said:

I'm talking about everything...the whole nine

I did not call out rap music in of itself, I'm talking about what the forefathers who crafted this music warned the people back in 1978, when they said if the music was ever commercialized it would be destroyed........

I'm talking about how all of a sudden out the box, society is being socially engineered to exhibit behavior they never would have imagine if they were allowed to develop sound reasoning, where teenagers are immediately overwhelmed with content and imagery they are unable to discern

black women, women as a whole in this country would not be so eager to spray their bodies with ink if it was not being promoted so heavily........

young men, grown men would not be sagging their pants if this was not being promoted to them for the past 25 plus years....when they don't know that saggin originated in prisons in the 70s to indicate if someone belonged to someone else......

when u see an 8 year old girl, a girl who's just starting to understand the basic concepts and u take her and spray her body up w/ink.......there's no way anyone is going to tell me that's legit because I know better......

and another main reason women in my community are getting them is because their boyfriend, husbands are telling them to get em, so they are doing it out of being pressured....

but as I mentioned, we'll see what's up by decades in because many women, women in my community are already regretted all the tattoos that they got

[Edited 10/12/13 12:06pm]

You're acting like everybody in the world listens to rap. The majority of early rap songs had no kind of social message. It was party music, bragging about MC skills or their DJ, talking about their house or the car they drive, or humor based. In Rapper's Delight, Big Bank Hank talks about taking Lois Lane from Superman and says that he looks like a "sucker in a blue and red suit".

.

How do you know why someone is doing something? What if the woman is a lesbian/butch/stud? Then there is no boyfriend/husband. A person chooses what they want to do. With peer pressure, a person usually can just as easily choose not to do what it is as to do it. There's McDonald's, Coke, & Starbucks everywhere, but yet there are raw foodists, fruitarians, vegans, paleo, and pescatarians. They see the same advertising, so why don't they eat what is being sold. In a lot of cases, their families & friends don't eat in the same way, so they didn't get it there. Body modification is not seen on TV that much, but people are doing it. There's mountain men & hermits and that lifestyle is not advertised. There's groups like the Amish, who live and dress in a old fashioned way, and ride around in horse buggies.

.

I remember there were kids on school that purposefully chose not to listen to mainstream music and liked to talk about listening to some obscure underground act that sold 200 copies of their self-pressed records that were not on a major label. If a particular group/singer happened to get mainstream popular, they would say the act "sold out" and quit listening to them. They could have just as easily listened to the popular music, but they didn't. No one forces anyone to listen to the radio or watch TV, and if they imitate what is on it, then they're choosing to do so. How do people who like polka, free jazz, or blues find out about it? It's not on Top 40 radio or seen much on TV.

SeventeenDayze said:

Scorp said:

parents can't be blamed for everything....

I'll never forget in the late 80s, actually 1990, Oprah Winfrey held a program about explicit lyrical content

and a women in the audience (when audiences were allowed to participate in discourse), a black mother in the 30s explain specifically how the music her son was listening too was not only changing his behavior but changing his self image and his outlook on life.........she was a working mother, it wasn't like she was neglecting her child.......

parents can't monitor their children 24 hours a day...it's impossible.......

she told the truth, but the people who should have been listening to her didn't want anything to do with what she said....

it's about making billions and exploitation w/out consideration for what's going to happen down the line

in the late 80s, early 90s, in my hometown, you saw young cats not even had reached puberty yet flashing gang signs, because of what was being projected on television and music and video

we had an infiltration of blood and crip activity that swarmed my neighborhood for about 2 years.......

there was no deviation from the music they was listening to, it was all one single genre after it had been hijacked and commercialized......

and of course, the the gang phenomenon excascerbated because of the drug trade pushed in our communities (facilitated by this government), and it could have been stamped out before the 1980s hit, but law enforcement did not want it to cease......

but as the famous words say "the chickens will come home to roost" sooner or later, more like sooner because it's roosting now

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

I'm talking about everything...the whole nine

I did not call out rap music in of itself, I'm talking about what the forefathers who crafted this music warned the people back in 1978, when they said if the music was ever commercialized it would be destroyed........

I'm talking about how all of a sudden out the box, society is being socially engineered to exhibit behavior they never would have imagine if they were allowed to develop sound reasoning, where teenagers are immediately overwhelmed with content and imagery they are unable to discern

black women, women as a whole in this country would not be so eager to spray their bodies with ink if it was not being promoted so heavily........

young men, grown men would not be sagging their pants if this was not being promoted to them for the past 25 plus years....when they don't know that saggin originated in prisons in the 70s to indicate if someone belonged to someone else......

when u see an 8 year old girl, a girl who's just starting to understand the basic concepts and u take her and spray her body up w/ink.......there's no way anyone is going to tell me that's legit because I know better......

and another main reason women in my community are getting them is because their boyfriend, husbands are telling them to get em, so they are doing it out of being pressured....

but as I mentioned, we'll see what's up by decades in because many women, women in my community are already regretted all the tattoos that they got

[Edited 10/12/13 12:06pm]

You're acting like everybody in the world listens to rap. The majority of early rap songs had no kind of social message. It was party music, bragging about MC skills or their DJ, talking about their house or the car they drive, or humor based. In Rapper's Delight, Big Bank Hank talks about taking Lois Lane from Superman and says that he looks like a "sucker in a blue and red suit".

.

How do you know why someone is doing something? What if the woman is a lesbian/butch/stud? Then there is no boyfriend/husband. A person chooses what they want to do. With peer pressure, a person usually can just as easily choose not to do what it is as to do it. There's McDonald's, Coke, & Starbucks everywhere, but yet there are raw foodists, fruitarians, vegans, paleo, and pescatarians. They see the same advertising, so why don't they eat what is being sold. In a lot of cases, their families & friends don't eat in the same way, so they didn't get it there. Body modification is not seen on TV that much, but people are doing it. There's mountain men & hermits and that lifestyle is not advertised. There's groups like the Amish, who live and dress in a old fashioned way, and ride around in horse buggies.

.

I remember there were kids on school that purposefully chose not to listen to mainstream music and liked to talk about listening to some obscure underground act that sold 200 copies of their self-pressed records that were not on a major label. If a particular group/singer happened to get mainstream popular, they would say the act "sold out" and quit listening to them. They could have just as easily listened to the popular music, but they didn't. No one forces anyone to listen to the radio or watch TV, and if they imitate what is on it, then they're choosing to do so. How do people who like polka, free jazz, or blues find out about it? It's not on Top 40 radio or seen much on TV.

there's nowhere in my post where I said the whole world listens to rap..........

just like everyone does not listen to r&b, or rock, or country, or funk, or punk, or jazz, or blues.....

I never said that's...that's not the problem....

and how do I know?....because I hear the conversations all the time, and allot of this stuff carries a spiritual component...

like I say, based on all the evidence, my community is in trouble in this country, because all the signs point to it

if you can convince a people they are not in trouble, that's when they are in the deepest trouble

but it's not even a question that for the past 26 years, black youth as a whole have gravitated to rap music exclusively where there exists no balance, because they were not given the opportunity to be presented w/the full range of music........

as I said before, the explicit lyrical content should not have been allowed, but the governing body of this country allowed it to be so, not because they were trying to protect the right to freedom of speech, but so that content can be projected and targeted directly towards inner city youth, but because of their ambivalence, they tripped over their own devious ways and didn't consider the explicit content would be project beyond those borders...

the government could have nipped it in the bud, but deliberately chose to facilitate it/both

now tell me where music would be if explicit lyrical content would not have been allowed because it all kicked off in the late 80s

when there is no boundaries, there is no society, and that's when everything crumbles

there is no excuse for what the recording industry has fostered over these past 25 plus years....

but they paying the price for it though

legendofnothing said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

Legend, thanks for sharing about your life. This was interesting. I'm just curious why your dad took a liking to Ice Cube above all others?

Scorp said:

as I said before, the explicit lyrical content should not have been allowed, but the governing body of this country allowed it to be so, not because they were trying to protect the right to freedom of speech, but so that content can be projected and targeted directly towards inner city youth, but because of their ambivalence, they tripped over their own devious ways and didn't consider the explicit content would be project beyond those borders...

the government could have nipped it in the bud, but deliberately chose to facilitate it/both

now tell me where music would be if explicit lyrical content would not have been allowed because it all kicked off in the late 80

There's always been explicit music and records. It didn't start in the 1980s. The most popular acts in the early recording industry made minstrel music, "coon" songs, & blackface. Profanity has existed for centuries. There was no recording industry, TV, or movies. If that was how it spread, it would have died out long ago. Violent songs were sung in households. One of the most remade songs is Stagger Lee (aka Stag O Lee and other various spellings). There were early 78s about weed, heroin, drinking, fighting, chain gangs, killing, sex, pimps, and other things. The early film Birth Of A Nation is about the KKK. There were other early movies about the mafia, train robbers, outlaws, and wars. In the 1800's there were people looking at Sarah Baartman, the "Hottentot Venus". There was also the "Freak Show" exhibits with hairy "warewolf" women, really tall men, Siamese twins, lobster boys, etc. People made & sold postcards of lynchings. There were Bugs Bunny cartoons with racist caricatures.

.

Some of the bubblegum songs that were actually targeted to teens/pre-teens (unlike a lot of rap) in the 1960s & 1970s were really disguised songs about sex or drugs. The Jackson 5 recorded songs like Touch, Who's Loving You, and Guess Who's Making Whoopie With Your Girlfriend. Betty Wright was a teenager when she made songs like Pure Love and Clean Up Woman. The Beatles were teenagers playing music for strippers and performing in bars for 8 hours or more, and they sometimes got paid in beer, and given pills by club owners to keep them awake. Many other young performers from decades ago played in clubs, juke joints, and bars too. So the entertainment today is not much different than in the past. There was no good old "pure & innocent" days in the past.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

as I said before, the explicit lyrical content should not have been allowed, but the governing body of this country allowed it to be so, not because they were trying to protect the right to freedom of speech, but so that content can be projected and targeted directly towards inner city youth, but because of their ambivalence, they tripped over their own devious ways and didn't consider the explicit content would be project beyond those borders...

the government could have nipped it in the bud, but deliberately chose to facilitate it/both

now tell me where music would be if explicit lyrical content would not have been allowed because it all kicked off in the late 80

There's always been explicit music and records. It didn't start in the 1980s. The most popular acts in the early recording industry made minstrel music, "coon" songs, & blackface. Profanity has existed for centuries. There was no recording industry, TV, or movies. If that was how it spread, it would have died out long ago. Violent songs were sung in households. One of the most remade songs is Stagger Lee (aka Stag O Lee and other various spellings). There were early 78s about weed, heroin, drinking, fighting, chain gangs, killing, sex, pimps, and other things. The early film Birth Of A Nation is about the KKK. There were other early movies about the mafia, train robbers, outlaws, and wars. In the 1800's there were people looking at Sarah Baartman, the "Hottentot Venus". There was also the "Freak Show" exhibits with hairy "warewolf" women, really tall men, Siamese twins, lobster boys, etc. People made & sold postcards of lynchings. There were Bugs Bunny cartoons with racist caricatures.

.

Some of the bubblegum songs that were actually targeted to teens/pre-teens (unlike a lot of rap) in the 1960s & 1970s were really disguised songs about sex or drugs. The Jackson 5 recorded songs like Touch, Who's Loving You, and Guess Who's Making Whoopie With Your Girlfriend. Betty Wright was a teenager when she made songs like Pure Love and Clean Up Woman. The Beatles were teenagers playing music for strippers and performing in bars for 8 hours or more, and they sometimes got paid in beer, and given pills by club owners to keep them awake. Many other young performers from decades ago played in clubs, juke joints, and bars too. So the entertainment today is not much different than in the past. There was no good old "pure & innocent" days in the past.

I never said anything about any period of musical history being "pure and innnocent"

it aint about bubble gum

I think the problem is we don't want to admit there is a problem, and thing when things become problematic, then we cast blame to try and remove ourselves from the problem, then the situation become perpetual and carries on to future generations

we can sit here and talk about what happen in the past, what took place behind closed doors how things existed before the recording industry came to be

it's no excuse for what's going on today, and allot of truly talented people who would make significant contribution have either been pushed out or never given a real opportunity, or have been led in the wrong direction

in the past 26 years, there has been a new animal that the past rebellions can't match.....you have music and video wrapped in one, showed as one, and promoted as one.......so now, you have to deal with the audio and the visual simultaneously.........

THUG LIFE was a construct, do we really think that's who TUPAC SHAKUR really was. I never believed it.....there was something deeper to his meaning but he admitted he projected Thug Life because he knew that was the expectation, but he had so much more to offer, he could have been one of the greatest luminaries of all time, but Thug Life image robbed him of that potential the very moments he tried to move beyond it, so now all we have left are should have beens and could have beens.....

so just because D. W. Griffith produced Birth of a Nation over a century ago depicting racial stereotypes excuses a current artist of today for utlizing "Freedom of speech" to talk about bitches and hoes and hoochies, or on the other side calling men dogs, and low lifes, and the like?....

what good is all this doing?.....absolutely nothing......

when I came up, there was balance, even when we were listening to current music of the early to mid 80s, we were still exposed to what people did in the 70s and 60s and the like

so while we were jamming to J-5, or Van Halen......we were taught about those who came before, the Count Basies, the Duke Ellingtons, the Sarah Vaughns, the Bob Dylans, folk music, Tammy Wynettes, Loretta Lynns.........we had the full range, we were even exposed to the Operas, Luciano Pavorotti, Dinah Washington, Leontyne Price......

that's no longer the case, either it's this or nothing else......

in the early 90s, I seen 10 year olds transform overnight due to the music they were being exposed to...so I can't let opposing view rise above what I've seen with my own two eyes....

love songs are gone, totally cast aside......songs about real commentary are gone

the majority of today's music centers around hostility and ambivalence

in 1981, you have a superbly talented artist Bonnie Tyler sing TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART.....real music...awesome song..a woman who can really sing

fast forward to 2013, and you have Britney Spears with a song called WORK BITCH

yeah right......

PAT BENATAR was off the charts, the entire package and she didn't have to flash her titties around to get attention......HEARTBREAKER, LOVE IS A BATTLEFIELD, HIT ME WITH YOUR BEST SHOT, SHADOWS OF THE NIGHT, WE BELONG, PROMISES IN THE DARK.......she was the real deal.........

I believe it's possible to have a successful recording career and be a great entertainer without all the crap........you can make great song w/out profanity........

I know it's possible but the industry don't want that..........

all this stuff that's on these airwaves does nothing for me......it's boring......anybody can curse thru a record....u don't have to be a rhodes scholar for that

it takes years, decades to build a great thing, but it can be destroyed within minutes....

[Edited 10/12/13 16:59pm]

Scorp said:

the majority of today's music centers around hostility and ambivalence

.

in 1981, you have a superbly talented artist Bonnie Tyler sing TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART

There's thousands of records (and also non-recorded music) in hundreds of countries on all continents except Antarctica, and you've heard it all and determined the majority of it to be hostile. You must have a lot of time on your hands and also know many languages.

.

In 1981, there were this video:

Also in 1981, Duran Duran made a music video for Girls On Film that was either banned or edited on TV. The talk of the video probably helped the song. In 1980, Millie Jackson released a single called I Had To Say It, which was played on the radio, although the curse words were bleeped out. There was also The Slits, a female punk rock group, whose 1979 album cover for Cut featured a picture of the group topless with mud all over them. There were those funk, disco, and R&B albums of the 1970s with naked women on the cover like The Ohio Players or a guy wearing underwear like Prince.

I wonder what message The Godfather is presenting here.

How about this:

[Edited 10/12/13 18:07pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

the majority of today's music centers around hostility and ambivalence

.

in 1981, you have a superbly talented artist Bonnie Tyler sing TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART

There's thousands of records (and also non-recorded music) in hundreds of countries on all continents except Antarctica, and you've heard it all and determined the majority of it to be hostile. You must have a lot of time on your hands and also know many languages.

.

In 1981, there were this video:

Also in 1981, Duran Duran made a music video for Girls On Film that was either banned or edited on TV. The talk of the video probably helped the song. In 1980, Millie Jackson released a single called I Had To Say It, which was played on the radio, although the curse words were bleeped out. There was also The Slits, a female punk rock group, whose 1979 album cover for Cut featured a picture of the group topless with mud all over them. There were those funk, disco, and R&B albums of the 1970s with naked women on the cover like The Ohio Players or a guy wearing underwear like Prince.

never said I heard it all......

but I know what I've heard.......big difference....

we can be indiffrent to what's going on when should be taken heed to what's about to go down

it's not that I have allot of time on my hands, it's that my community is running out of time to clean this stuff up because nobody else is going to do it for us... we may have a period of a half a generation/10 years to reverse the trend or we'll be living in oblivion

the industry does not care at all about the damage it has wrought over this past quarter century

what's the saying, because careful what you ask for because u just may get it, and when u get it, you find that you've been got and then there's nowhere else to go to

pretty soon, we will witness entertainers coming on the stage performing on tv shows/award shows butt starkin naked, and they will be using profanity laced lyric, but they will say, it's only entertainment and it's art and people shouldn't call it out.......because that's where it's headed, they are already half way there...MK ULTRA MIND CONTROL...minds literally being programmed thru musical soundwaves and messages and structure

and when it all boils down, this stuff is projected, directed, marketed, and intended, not for adults, but for kids and teenagers

and the proof is in the fact most of today's artists are either in their late teens or no older than their mid 20s........if you are 30 years of age or older, u dont' stand a chance.......

so the demographic is exclusively youth oriented, which is why record sales have declined out the yazoo over the past 10 years........

because there is no balance

[Edited 10/12/13 20:55pm]

legendofnothing said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

Legend, thanks for sharing about your life. This was interesting. I'm just curious why your dad took a liking to Ice Cube above all others?

Wow, the title of this thread makes it clear the discussion is about hip hop and now there are people posting Olivia Newton John videos? Nice way to move the goalposts. Maybe you could get hired on Capitol Hill.....For the rest who want to talk about the subject at hand, please keep the thoughts coming!

legendofnothing said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Well said! How many people would have tattoos and overpriced Nikes if it weren't for certain influential "artists" that they see flash across their TV screen?

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

This naive post is typical of the warm, cosy and completely misguided attitude we are trained to adopt in this culture. You say it's all about personal responsibility, yet by your own admission your own positive attitude was instilled in you by your father. It's very easy for someone who's had that kind of luck to dismiss environmental influences. What you're effectively doing is stigmatizing victims. You don't mean to do it, but it's what you're doing.

You need to drop that all-American individualistic framework and look at the bigger picture. Peoples' destinies are shaped by forces which they are usually barely conscious of. Society is the big one. By blaming individuals you are ignoring this deeper reality. In effect you're becoming an apologist for the system wthout realizing it. It's not the system that's at fault it's the people themselves! They were born lazy, bad, stupid, etc. If only they could be as smart as you, eh?

Oh and one other thing: Spike Lee's an idiot.

midnightmover said:

legendofnothing said:

Reading over this topic I'm seeing a lot of excuses. And no, I'm not blaming parents for everything that is wrong within this world, because it goes a lot deeper than that. As a kid I grew up in the projects, hung with friends who sold drugs, used to mob anyone who wasn't black that walked through the neighboorhood and witnessed them running trains on girls. East Coast Crips on one side and Bloods to the other. When I became a teenager I lived in a gated community, would ride family owned horses after school and was considered spoiled and privileged by outsiders who didn't really know me. Point is my father reminded me everyday, that it was his money, success, and entreprenuiral mind that allowed me to live like that. With the exception of Ice Cube he hated rap music, M.T.V, entertainment in general and demanded I turn that shit off. His influence over me was stronger than the medias influence and I love him for it.

I know the inner city hood's are far more reckless now and on life support in 2013, But training a young mind starts at home. Depending on the U.S. Government to save anyone? Ha! I don't think so. They never have and never will give a fuck about you. For all the kids out there who don't have parents or role models to look up to all is not lost. There are plenty of positive tools available to assist in escaping the generational curse of EBT, gang banging and aimlessly wondering through life waiting on Uncle Sam to rescue you. Books, the internet, grants, student loans, mentoring programs, etc. Peer pressure is tough and contrary to what some want you to believe racism is alive and well in America and a lot more prevalent. Yes, Rap music has become the tool of the oppressor, But knowledge, hard work, drive, passion, self-esteem, focus, tunnel vision and many other attributes can be used as tools to overcome and win in this fucked up life. When it is all said and done, there will be no one to blame but you. Personal accountability. "Bamboozled" is an awesome and underrated film. Spike's best work.

This naive post is typical of the warm, cosy and completely misguided attitude we are trained to adopt in this culture. You say it's all about personal responsibility, yet by your own admission your own positive attitude was instilled in you by your father. It's very easy for someone who's had that kind of luck to dismiss environmental influences. What you're effectively doing is stigmatizing victims. You don't mean to do it, but it's what you're doing.

You need to drop that all-American individualistic framework and look at the bigger picture. Peoples' destinies are shaped by forces which they are usually barely conscious of. Society is the big one. By blaming individuals you are ignoring this deeper reality. In effect you're becoming an apologist for the system wthout realizing it. It's not the system that's at fault it's the people themselves! They were born lazy, bad, stupid, etc. If only they could be as smart as you, eh?

Oh and one other thing: Spike Lee's an idiot.

A very valid point if view, mm. On the last point: Spike Lee is many things but an idiot he is not.

ForgottenPassword said:

midnightmover said:

This naive post is typical of the warm, cosy and completely misguided attitude we are trained to adopt in this culture. You say it's all about personal responsibility, yet by your own admission your own positive attitude was instilled in you by your father. It's very easy for someone who's had that kind of luck to dismiss environmental influences. What you're effectively doing is stigmatizing victims. You don't mean to do it, but it's what you're doing.

You need to drop that all-American individualistic framework and look at the bigger picture. Peoples' destinies are shaped by forces which they are usually barely conscious of. Society is the big one. By blaming individuals you are ignoring this deeper reality. In effect you're becoming an apologist for the system wthout realizing it. It's not the system that's at fault it's the people themselves! They were born lazy, bad, stupid, etc. If only they could be as smart as you, eh?

Oh and one other thing: Spike Lee's an idiot.

A very valid point if view, mm. On the last point: Spike Lee is many things but an idiot he is not.

Oh no, he most certainly is. Do The Right Thing is one of my favourite films so I know that once upon a time he had some skills. But he's still an idiot. I see interviews with him and I'm embarrassed.

I've got nothing much to say about this topic--I'm with MickeyDolenz on most of it, probably.

However--the girl with the split tongue? Can she talk with that thing? I'm a little freaked out by that, and a tad confused by how it would really work.

midnightmover said:

ForgottenPassword said:

A very valid point if view, mm. On the last point: Spike Lee is many things but an idiot he is not.

Oh no, he most certainly is. Do The Right Thing is one of my favourite films so I know that once upon a time he had some skills. But he's still an idiot. I see interviews with him and I'm embarrassed.

What makes him an idiot in your opinion?

EddieC said:

However--the girl with the split tongue? Can she talk with that thing? I'm a little freaked out by that, and a tad confused by how it would really work.

Sure, she goes by the name Emily Star or Emmy Hooks. The woman with the needles is Takahashi, but I don't know who the 2nd picture is.