rdhull said:

Genesia said:

Seriously?

Dont mind her. She gets hysterical about things.

Oh how cute coming from the biggest drama queen.

mjscarousal said:

rdhull said:

Dont mind her. She gets hysterical about things.

Oh how cute coming from the biggest drama queen.

see, I told ya

I think that it is funny that the people screaming racism the loudest probably understand the incident the least.

For starters the only proof that he said the word is that Stephen Stills, who was also drunk, claimed that he did. Is that an unimpeachable source? I guess if you are the type to hysterically accuse people who you never met and know nothing about that they are racists that is all the proof that you need. Why let reason get in the way of a good witch-hunt?

rialb said:

I think that it is funny that the people screaming racism the loudest probably understand the incident the least.

For starters the only proof that he said the word is that Stephen Stills, who was also drunk, claimed that he did. Is that an unimpeachable source? I guess if you are the type to hysterically accuse people who you never met and know nothing about that they are racists that is all the proof that you need. Why let reason get in the way of a good witch-hunt?

It's really much ado about nothing to me. Freaking out over anything is a technique that has been perfected over the years. It surely didn't bother Ray and James, why should it bother my black ass what some drunk rocker dude says?

rialb said:

I think that it is funny that the people screaming racism the loudest probably understand the incident the least.

For starters the only proof that he said the word is that Stephen Stills, who was also drunk, claimed that he did. Is that an unimpeachable source? I guess if you are the type to hysterically accuse people who you never met and know nothing about that they are racists that is all the proof that you need. Why let reason get in the way of a good witch-hunt?

He did say it. He has admitted to saying in many times over the years as well as explaining the situation as being foolhearty and aplogizing profusely.

rdhull said:

rialb said:

I think that it is funny that the people screaming racism the loudest probably understand the incident the least.

For starters the only proof that he said the word is that Stephen Stills, who was also drunk, claimed that he did. Is that an unimpeachable source? I guess if you are the type to hysterically accuse people who you never met and know nothing about that they are racists that is all the proof that you need. Why let reason get in the way of a good witch-hunt?

He did say it. He has admitted to saying in many times over the years as well as explaining the situation as being foolhearty and aplogizing profusely.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote from him where he claimed he can't be sure that he said it. It may have been in the booklet to the Get Happy!!! reissue. I think what he said was that he had no memory of saying it but that he probably did.

rialb said:

rdhull said:

He did say it. He has admitted to saying in many times over the years as well as explaining the situation as being foolhearty and aplogizing profusely.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote from him where he claimed he can't be sure that he said it. It may have been in the booklet to the Get Happy!!! reissue. I think what he said was that he had no memory of saying it but that he probably did.

Well whatever happened, it's been about 35 years.

rialb said:

rdhull said:

He did say it. He has admitted to saying in many times over the years as well as explaining the situation as being foolhearty and aplogizing profusely.

I'm pretty sure I read a quote from him where he claimed he can't be sure that he said it. It may have been in the booklet to the Get Happy!!! reissue. I think what he said was that he had no memory of saying it but that he probably did.

Well, what I've read is his admittance to it and him explaining the context of the situation. Not excusing it but explaining it. This is an infmaous incidence in rock history.

rialb said:

mrjun18 said:

rialb said:

I think that it is funny that the people screaming racism the loudest probably understand the incident the least.

For starters the only proof that he said the word is that Stephen Stills, who was also drunk, claimed that he did. Is that an unimpeachable source? I guess if you are the type to hysterically accuse people who you never met and know nothing about that they are racists that is all the proof that you need. Why let reason get in the way of a good witch-hunt?

Ok then why did he make an apology if he didn't do it? And says he never got a chance to apologize to ray when ray died?

I believe that he was pressured into making the apology by his record label/management.

I'm not denying that he said it, he probably did, but I think it is odd that thirty years later in some people's eyes he is still defined by that one incident. If you look at the scope of his life and career it is pretty difficult to make the case that he is a racist. If he is a racist he has done a remarkable job of hiding it all of these years.

I don't know much about Elvis Costello other than the fact his name is

Elvis Costello. I do know i like one of his songs just can't remember the name.

I do know he has a bit of a history running off at the mouth. He had a long

bitter standing feud with Sting and they just kissed and made up a few years

ago. He critized Sting for sounding like a dumb Jamaican and a few other nasty

things so he's known for being an ass but i suppose he's turned over a new leaf.

He admitted to Sting it was jealousy that spurred him to make such comments.

It doesn't surprise me that he made such a comment about Ray. I could care less

whether he's racist or not it doesn't affect my life one way or another but making

excuses for him because he was drunk or trying to piss people off. Alrighty then.

rdhull said:

rialb said:

I'm pretty sure I read a quote from him where he claimed he can't be sure that he said it. It may have been in the booklet to the Get Happy!!! reissue. I think what he said was that he had no memory of saying it but that he probably did.

Well, what I've read is his admittance to it and him explaining the context of the situation. Not excusing it but explaining it. This is an infmaous incidence in rock history.

It is in the Get Happy!! booklet but it may be more ambiguous than I painted it as being. Here is the direct quote:

I read that as him saying that he can't be sure of what exactly happened or was said that night but his comments may be open to interpretation. Of course on many other occasions he has admitted to saying them so I understand what you are saying.

I do find it odd that the "jive ass nigger" comment directed at James Brown receives significantly less attention. Maybe it is easier to paint him as a villain if he was insulting to a blind man? Also, the fact that he may have been involved in a physical altercation with a woman (Bonnie Bramlett) doesn't get much attention. More fuel for those who hate him, not only is he a racist but he beats women too!

One thing that no one ever talks about when discussing this incident is the fact that Steven Stills has long been known as one of rock's biggest assholes - and also as somebody who was openly hostile to/ disdainful of the new wave right as it was breaking.

If you listen to the opening of the live version of CSNY's Black Queen from 4 Way Street you can hear him slip into this incredibly affected story in which he affects the trappings of an old black bluesman pickin' on the porch, probably while wearing a fur coat. He seems to think he's real authentic but it just sounds so lame and affected it's kind of embarrassing.

I can easily imagine a scene where Stills started giving him crap about how "we're real Americans and therefore more authentic/ soulful/ real than you and your new wave shit will ever be."

NONE OF THIS IS MEANT TO EXCUSE WHAT COSTELLO SAID. It was awful, and he needed to be taken to task for it, and he was. We're still talking about it 33 years later.

But I don't think you can reduce the guy's entire career to the worst thing he ever said when he was drunk.

How'd you like your whole life to be judged on the worst thing you ever said when you were drunk?

It was a racist and daft comment to make - drunk or not. And he apologised.

The end.

rialb said:

mrjun18 said:

rialb said: Ok then why did he make an apology if he didn't do it? And says he never got a chance to apologize to ray when ray died?

I believe that he was pressured into making the apology by his record label/management.

I'm not denying that he said it, he probably did, but I think it is odd that thirty years later in some people's eyes he is still defined by that one incident. If you look at the scope of his life and career it is pretty difficult to make the case that he is a racist. If he is a racist he has done a remarkable job of hiding it all of these years.

yeah, because unless you're actively burning crosses on lawns, you couldn't possibly be one. got it.

Bonnie Bramlett-why does that name ring a bell?

rialb said:

rdhull said:

It is in the Get Happy!! booklet but it may be more ambiguous than I painted it as being. Here is the direct quote:

The racial nature of these alleged remarks-I say "alleged" because I have about as much true memory of what actually transpired as any of the other drunken combatants-created a fairly major scandal.

I read that as him saying that he can't be sure of what exactly happened or was said that night but his comments may be open to interpretation. Of course on many other occasions he has admitted to saying them so I understand what you are saying.

I do find it odd that the "jive ass nigger" comment directed at James Brown receives significantly less attention. Maybe it is easier to paint him as a villain if he was insulting to a blind man? Also, the fact that he may have been involved in a physical altercation with a woman (Bonnie Bramlett) doesn't get much attention. More fuel for those who hate him, not only is he a racist but he beats women too!

no, i don't think so. i don't know why the james brown comments haven't received as wide exposure; was he drunk when he made those statements about him, too? i don't hate costello; not worthy of such involvement on my part. what i hate are excuses made for this p.o.s. - 'cause your other examples bear out that he is indeed a p.o.s.

was he drunk when he made those statements about him, too?

Same incident.

ForgottenPassword said:

It was a racist and daft comment to make - drunk or not. And he apologised.

The end.

This is pretty much how I feel about it, too. Whatever context, it was 30 years ago and if he felt it in his heart then, there is a chance that he doesn't feel it there now.

Stymie said:

ForgottenPassword said:

It was a racist and daft comment to make - drunk or not. And he apologised.

The end.

This is pretty much how I feel about it, too. Whatever context, it was 30 years ago and if he felt it in his heart then, there is a chance that he doesn't feel it there now.

HEY YO!

Leave Elvis Costello alone. Its funny how people on here can sit on their computers or use their gadgets made by Asian children in slave conditions and know that they are made that way and then somehow come on here and think a person is racist for remarks he may or may not have made sober or not over 30 years ago. No one knows the context of the conversation or the events preceding to those remarks made so I guess just get over it. Elvis Costello is a legend.

What about John Mayer or Eric Clapton and their views

Claptons Controversy over remarks on immigration

On 5 August 1976 Clapton provoked an uproar and lingering controversy when he spoke out against increasing immigration during a concert in Birmingham. Visibly intoxicated, Clapton voiced his support of controversial political candidate Enoch Powell, and announced on stage that Britain was in danger of becoming a "black colony". Clapton was quoted as saying, "I think Enoch's right ... we should send them all back. Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!"^[114] The latter phrase was at the time a British National Front slogan.^[115] Clapton continued:

"I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking [indecipherable] don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck's sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he’s a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he’s our man, he’s on our side, he’ll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he’s on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!"^[116]

So are we gonna have a thread about Eric Clapton too?

Are we going to have a go at BB King and the many other African American Blues and Rock artists who continue to work with Eric Clapton even though Eric said those comments many many years ago when he was off his head.

If so then are we going to bag BB King the same way people are bagging Brother Love for working with a supposed racist while intoxicated?

I've known about that Clapton mess for years. To hell with him too. As for the black musicians who work with him, that's their business not mine. People can do whatever the fuck they want. I'd wouldn't deal with someone talking that shit, but that's me.

I hate Elvis Costello. Just sayin`.

scriptgirl said:

Bonnie Bramlett-why does that name ring a bell?

You may have heard of her via Eric Clapton and/or George Harrison. Delaney and Bonnie Bramlett had a band that was a huge influence of the 70s Southern rock "down home boogie" style, esp for some English artists. In fact, EC stole their band outright!

The Bramletts were folks who never really got big themselves but influenced big people...they're a bit unsung, if you will. In this case they were the White Billy Preston..

I have no clue about why he and Bonnie might have gotten into it, but if there's some issue who was/is more real and Costello has a hang up about it (as the Stills sitch seems to suggest) that could be a factor here.

clapton and costello can still find work after making repungnet staments like that, but let ray charles or james brown go into a tirade like this and they will lucky to get book playing on subway platforms

Hmmm before i get killed for saying this i want to say imo Elvis Costello is one of the most overrated musicians i can think of and i am not a fan at all.

Good now with that being said his comment was horrible as fuck and downrigth disgusting...

But this was decades ago! Costello has been a notable asshole for years and has also been notable for admiting his ignorance and trying to right wrong's in recent years.

He said some fucked up shit about Ray, James & Sting...

But let's not pretend Prince has not said some hateful shit or many other artist's we like on here.

Are we saying people can't change? people do dumb shit when they are younger and they are supposed to mature from it.

From what i read Costello has made amends with artists he talked shit on in the past and worked with dozens of African American musicians over the years.

just my 2 quarters.

Sounds just like a drunk British person to me. Seriously, they've long had this "thing" about behaving as obnoxiously as possible when they're drunk. Not everyone over there is like that, of course, but many are.

I used to get all kinds of crap from them when I lived there in the late-90s and I was simply from Finland. I never got the vibe that they genuinely felt I was "inferior" to them due to that, but they were just testing me and it was just one type of humour (no, I didn't find it funny myself).

Of course, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be some sort of racist thoughts behind it, but in this case his word choices sound a bit too kooky ("jive-ass"?) for me to think that he really "meant" what he said.

Yeah, sure, he shouldn't have said it in any case.

[edit - The title of this thread is unnecessarily provocative, for that matter]

[Edited 1/24/13 1:33am]

kibbles said:

rialb said:

I believe that he was pressured into making the apology by his record label/management.

I'm not denying that he said it, he probably did, but I think it is odd that thirty years later in some people's eyes he is still defined by that one incident. If you look at the scope of his life and career it is pretty difficult to make the case that he is a racist. If he is a racist he has done a remarkable job of hiding it all of these years.

yeah, because unless you're actively burning crosses on lawns, you couldn't possibly be one. got it.

Glad that I could explain it in a way that you can understand.

TD3 said:

There is no "story" to justified what he said; drunk thoughts mask true feelings. Whenever people express bigoted and/or racist thoughts, they are an enemy. Costello can dislike or say anything his wishes but I be damn if I'd ever work with him on anything. When you can't tell friend from foe.... it explains how and why we are at the bottom around the world, abused and disrespected. Pathetic and weak.

Alcohol = truth serum.

NDRU said:

There's no justification for what Elvis said, and he'd be the first to tell you that. As for alcohol, I don't believe anything more than a beer brings out your true feelings, I believe it turns decent people into monsters

copy, print, and save