Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

I gave you the nutty symbol because your insulting me because I am a MJ fan I came in here like everybody else to give my opinion on diverse subject matter and since I disagreed with your opinion you suggested Im not rational when clearly your the unrational extreme Janet stan.

This has nothing to do with one being a fan of an artist or not.

Now I dont disagree with your second paragraph (I pretty much said the same thing in my post)... HOWEVER, its a still a difference.

Black Cat is not a political song or a song that has much depth.

I STILL LOVE IT! But I would describe it lyrically as very simple but its still a good song. What makes it stand out though is the rock production.

That is the ONLY song she has written by her self well at least that has been recorded on her albums.

The rest she has received co credits and its arguable how much she exactly contributed in the songwriting process but all speculation aside, the botton line is like you said they were based off of her experiences but she technically did not write them herself and yes there is a difference there versus someone who writes about their own personal experiences.

Technically, I wouldnt call an artist like that a true songwriter and I also technically wouldnt say its truly from their perspective since they didnt write it.

Once again, I love Janet and that takes nothing away from her but you were implying something that was false.

Why are you talking about being rational or irrational (btw unrational is not a word).

She's the brains behind it, so yes it does come from her.

She's written other songs like Whoops Now

Her albums are collaborations, they are given equal credit to everything. You wouldn't call janet a proper songwriter but in the same breath applaud JJ & TL for their songwriting. So please, don't give me that BS - she is a songwriter.

Stating things like 'skin head dead head' - where is the depth in that? It's just as simple but less imaginative/enjoyable then

Black cat
Nine lives
Short days
Long nights
Livin on the edge
Not afraid to die

and BTW, In no way am I comparing Janet's ability to songwrite to MJ's.

But few of MJ's songs hold any meaning to me and most contain little emotion. Stranger in moscow is one of the few exceptions.

Sorry if I'd rather listen to this:

Outside leave judgement
Outside leave hate
One love's the answer
You'll find in you-oo-oo

We have a special need
To feel that we belong
Come with me inside
Inside my velvet rope

than this:

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, aggravation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Bang bang, shot dead
Everybody's gone mad

[Edited 1/5/13 13:21pm]

Look here, Janet is not a songwriter to me, The End.... Think what you want to think. She has written ONE song on her album so its unfair to really call her that when she received co credits/ assistance on majority of her music. Now Im sure she is probably cabable of writing her own music but majority of her catalogue she receive co credits.

I would describe her as an artist that was very involved in her music during her prime but I wouldnt call her a real songwriter like I would Stevie Wonder or Michael.

If she is receiving assistance and someone else is formulating and coming up with the lyrics... how is she the BRAINS behind the lyrics that are formulated? She told Jimmy, Terry about some of her experiences and they come up with the clever lines and creative writing, NOT HER. Im sure she had some input but giving her ALL the credit is delusional When she didnt write it herself

Her music lyrics was a team effort and a damn good one but to give ALL the credit to Janet is not accurate.

Whoops Now is a hidden track on JANET and is not a real song on the actual album.

Futhermore, I cant believe you stated that as a song she has written, when its just her giving shout outs to her friends and singing about getting away on vacation. Its suppose to be a fun song for her fans but decidely mediocre and simple. I dont even consider that a real serious song and I dont think Janet did either which is why its a hidden track.

Thats my opinion, the end think what you want to think

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

Why are you talking about being rational or irrational (btw unrational is not a word).

She's the brains behind it, so yes it does come from her.

She's written other songs like Whoops Now

Her albums are collaborations, they are given equal credit to everything. You wouldn't call janet a proper songwriter but in the same breath applaud JJ & TL for their songwriting. So please, don't give me that BS - she is a songwriter.

Stating things like 'skin head dead head' - where is the depth in that? It's just as simple but less imaginative/enjoyable then

Black cat
Nine lives
Short days
Long nights
Livin on the edge
Not afraid to die

and BTW, In no way am I comparing Janet's ability to songwrite to MJ's.

But few of MJ's songs hold any meaning to me and most contain little emotion. Stranger in moscow is one of the few exceptions.

Sorry if I'd rather listen to this:

Outside leave judgement
Outside leave hate
One love's the answer
You'll find in you-oo-oo

We have a special need
To feel that we belong
Come with me inside
Inside my velvet rope

than this:

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, aggravation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Bang bang, shot dead
Everybody's gone mad

[Edited 1/5/13 13:21pm]

Look here, Janet is not a songwriter to me, The End.... Think what you want to think. She has written ONE song on her album so its unfair to really call her that when she received co credits/ assistance on majority of her music. Now Im sure she is probably cabable of writing her own music but majority of her catalogue she receive co credits.

I would describe her as an artist that was very involved in her music during her prime but I wouldnt call her a real songwriter like I would Stevie Wonder or Michael.

If she is receiving assistance and someone else is formulating and coming up with the lyrics... how is she the BRAINS behind the lyrics that are formulated? She told Jimmy, Terry about some of her experiences and they come up with the clever lines and creative writing, NOT HER. Im sure she had some input but giving her ALL the credit is delusional When she didnt write it herself

Her music lyrics was a team effort and a damn good one but to give ALL the credit to Janet is not accurate.

Whoops Now is a hidden track on JANET and is not a real song on the actual album.

Futhermore, I cant believe you stated that as a song she has written, when its just her giving shout outs to her friends and singing about getting away on vacation. Its suppose to be a fun song for her fans but decidely mediocre and simple. I dont even consider that a real serious song and I dont think Janet did either which is why its a hidden track.

Thats my opinion, the end think what you want to think

Whoos Now is titled 'Sweet Dreams' and appears as the last song on Janet. her best selling album.

She came up with the idea therefore she is the brain behind the album. I don't give her all the credit, but you give her no credit. If she is not a songwriter, then that means Jimmy Jam is not a songwriter because he wrote all his songs with Terry Lewis and most with Janet. Do you see how that makes no sense, aka you make no sense.

I'm not saying Whoops now is a complex song, I'm saying it is a song shes written, along with black cat and others.

http://janethq.janetmedia.com/albums/userpics/10567/missyoumuch22xp.jpg

'The concept was her idea'. IE she was the brains

LiLi1992 said:

aardvark15 said:

Yeah MJ's lyrics aren't deep. The fact that you just said They Don't Care About Us isn't political just proves you have something against him.

You know, the ex-fans are usually the most passionate haters.
They Don't Care about Us - obviously political, protest song

Great song, one of his best

---------------------------

Queen

Nature / Weather - A Winter's Tale
Death - All Dead, All Dead
Vehicle - Bicycle Race
Optimism - Doing All Right
Motivation - Don't Try So Hard
Euphoria - Don't Stop Me Now
Treason - Dreamer's Ball
Excess weight - Fat Bottomed Girls
Parent message - Father to Son
Friendship - Friends Will Be Friends
Missed opportunities - Heaven for Everyone
The complex relationship - I Can't Live with You
Madness - I Go Crazy
Love - I Was Born to Love You
Social - Is This the World We Created?
Religious - Jesus
Jealousy - Jealousy
Stealth - The Invisible Man
Maternal destiny - The Loser in the End
Miracles - The Miracle
Immortality - Who Wants to Live Forever
Winners - We Are The Champions
Dangerous Girls - You Don't Fool Me

etc.

Queen has alot of diversity to, nice song choices

Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

Look here, Janet is not a songwriter to me, The End.... Think what you want to think. She has written ONE song on her album so its unfair to really call her that when she received co credits/ assistance on majority of her music. Now Im sure she is probably cabable of writing her own music but majority of her catalogue she receive co credits.

I would describe her as an artist that was very involved in her music during her prime but I wouldnt call her a real songwriter like I would Stevie Wonder or Michael.

If she is receiving assistance and someone else is formulating and coming up with the lyrics... how is she the BRAINS behind the lyrics that are formulated? She told Jimmy, Terry about some of her experiences and they come up with the clever lines and creative writing, NOT HER. Im sure she had some input but giving her ALL the credit is delusional When she didnt write it herself

Her music lyrics was a team effort and a damn good one but to give ALL the credit to Janet is not accurate.

Whoops Now is a hidden track on JANET and is not a real song on the actual album.

Futhermore, I cant believe you stated that as a song she has written, when its just her giving shout outs to her friends and singing about getting away on vacation. Its suppose to be a fun song for her fans but decidely mediocre and simple. I dont even consider that a real serious song and I dont think Janet did either which is why its a hidden track.

Thats my opinion, the end think what you want to think

Whoos Now is titled 'Sweet Dreams' and appears as the last song on Janet. her best selling album.

She came up with the idea therefore she is the brain behind the album. I don't give her all the credit, but you give her no credit. If she is not a songwriter, then that means Jimmy Jam is not a songwriter because he wrote all his songs with Terry Lewis and most with Janet. Do you see how that makes no sense, aka you make no sense.

I'm not saying Whoops now is a complex song, I'm saying it is a song shes written, along with black cat and others.

http://janethq.janetmedia.com/albums/userpics/10567/missyoumuch22xp.jpg

'The concept was her idea'. IE she was the brains

Whoops Now is not titled Sweet Dreams. Sweet Dreams is a interlude that is the 27th official track at the very end of the album and it last for approximately 14 seconds.

After about 8 seconds... Janet and a few of her backup dancers are talking and it goes into the hidden track "Whoops Now" Whoops Now is NOT titled Sweet Dreams and is NOT a official Janet song on the JANET album tracklist.

It is a hidden track.

How do I know? Because I have the album and Ive probably listened to it longer than you.

I never denied Janet was not involved or came up with ideas in music. I said she was VERY INVOLVED in music and SHE WAS...

HOWEVER

I disagree with you suggesting she was the BRAINS behind the lyrical creativity in regards to how the lyrics were written, structured, formulated and expressed. Now Im sure she had some input and I have given Janet all the credit she deserves but you for some reason fail to acknowledge Jimmy, Terry, Rene and other song writers and the role they played. THE LYRICS of her music was a TEAM effort... do you know what that means??? that means JANET was involved in it as well but she didnt come up with those lyrics BY HERSELF

Now do you understand????

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

Whoos Now is titled 'Sweet Dreams' and appears as the last song on Janet. her best selling album.

She came up with the idea therefore she is the brain behind the album. I don't give her all the credit, but you give her no credit. If she is not a songwriter, then that means Jimmy Jam is not a songwriter because he wrote all his songs with Terry Lewis and most with Janet. Do you see how that makes no sense, aka you make no sense.

I'm not saying Whoops now is a complex song, I'm saying it is a song shes written, along with black cat and others.

http://janethq.janetmedia.com/albums/userpics/10567/missyoumuch22xp.jpg

'The concept was her idea'. IE she was the brains

Whoops Now is not titled Sweet Dreams. Sweet Dreams is a interlude that is the 27th official track at the very end of the album and it last for approximately 14 seconds.

After about 8 seconds... Janet and a few of her backup dancers are talking and it goes into the hidden track "Whoops Now" Whoops Now is NOT titled Sweet Dreams and is NOT a official Janet song on the JANET album tracklist.

It is a hidden track.

How do I know? Because I have the album and Ive probably listened to it longer than you.

I never denied Janet was not involved or came up with ideas in music. I said she was VERY INVOLVED in music and SHE WAS...

HOWEVER

I disagree with you suggesting she was the BRAINS behind the lyrical creativity in regards to how the lyrics were written, structured, formulated and expressed. Now Im sure she had some input and I have given Janet all the credit she deserves but you for some reason fail to acknowledge Jimmy, Terry, Rene and other song writers and the role they played. THE LYRICS of her music was a TEAM effort... do you know what that means??? that means JANET was involved in it as well but she didnt come up with those lyrics BY HERSELF

Now do you understand????

I have the album also, and Sweat Dreems is 5:35 long and is Whoops Now. 'Ive probably listened to it longer than you' - what's that got to do with anything, stop being patronising.

You've just done a 180 degree turn to what I've been saying the whole time. And I agree. Majority of her songs are a team effort - does that mean she is not a songwriter, no!

[Edited 1/5/13 14:36pm]

Max Fucking Legend Martin.

Rene Homewrecker Elizondo Jr.

The Fabulous Milli Vanilli

[Edited 1/5/13 14:35pm]

Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

Whoops Now is not titled Sweet Dreams. Sweet Dreams is a interlude that is the 27th official track at the very end of the album and it last for approximately 14 seconds.

After about 8 seconds... Janet and a few of her backup dancers are talking and it goes into the hidden track "Whoops Now" Whoops Now is NOT titled Sweet Dreams and is NOT a official Janet song on the JANET album tracklist.

It is a hidden track.

How do I know? Because I have the album and Ive probably listened to it longer than you.

I never denied Janet was not involved or came up with ideas in music. I said she was VERY INVOLVED in music and SHE WAS...

HOWEVER

I disagree with you suggesting she was the BRAINS behind the lyrical creativity in regards to how the lyrics were written, structured, formulated and expressed. Now Im sure she had some input and I have given Janet all the credit she deserves but you for some reason fail to acknowledge Jimmy, Terry, Rene and other song writers and the role they played. THE LYRICS of her music was a TEAM effort... do you know what that means??? that means JANET was involved in it as well but she didnt come up with those lyrics BY HERSELF

Now do you understand????

I have the album also, and Sweat Dreems is 5:35 long and is Whoops Now. 'Ive probably listened to it longer than you' - what's that got to do with anything, stop being patronising.

You've just done a 180 degree turn to what I've been saying the whole time. And I agree. Majority of her songs are a time effort - does that mean she is not a songwriter, no!

Sweet Dreams is not 5:35 long.

Sweet Dreams is just an interlude.

I have the album right here in my hands and it has Sweet Dreams as an official track with a time of 14 seconds. That is the official last track on the album.

The reason why Sweet Dreams lasts 5 minutes long is because it is connected with the hidden track Whoops Now and you have to wait an extra 8 seconds for Whoops Now to come on after Sweet Dreams.

Although Whoops Now is a hidden track, it does not have its own seperate track number and it appears 7-8 seconds after Sweet Dreams which makes it appear Sweet Dreams (the official track) is longer than what it technically is.

Similiar to Velvet Rope... Cant Be Stopped is a hidden track but it connects with Special but it does not have its own track number.

Songs like Cant Be Stopped and Whoops Now are not official tracks on the tracklisting.

There hidden songs.

I have argued this ENTIRE TIME that Janet is an artist that has been very involved in her music and received Co credits. The only song she has written as an official track is Black Cat. You were implying that she wrote everything BY herself and now you wanna insist you meant it as a team effort You backtrack so many times and make so many contradictions its not even funny.

I dont really see what the problem is foreal. I just simply said Janet didnt write the songs BY HERSELF despite some of her songs being about her experiences.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:44pm]

Janet herself told Luigi dahling he better start putting his name in the liner notes if they are going to continue writing together

Now let's play tiddlywinks and eat lobster

[Edited 1/5/13 14:46pm]

alphastreet said:

Janet herself told Luigi dahling he better start putting his name in the liner notes if they are going to continue writing together

Now let's play tiddlywinks and eat lobster

[Edited 1/5/13 14:46pm]

For the record, I really do like Whoops Now despite it being very simple, (simple/complex doesnt really matter to me a good song

is a good song) I think its really fun and a cute song. I also love the performance to it on the Janet Tour, its really creative.

She also made Rene get co credit because he didnt want to take the credit despite coming up with most of the lyrics.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:57pm]

Yeah it was cute, she did it on some tv show, maybe Wetten Das. I love that outfit she wore on the janet. tour, I want the DVD!!!

Marvin:

Love: Pride & Joy, I Want You

Politics: You're the Man, Where Are We Going?

Divorce: Is That Enough, You Can Leave (But It's Gonna Cost You)

Religion: God Is Love, Love Party

Partying: Got to Give It Up, Funk Me

Drugs: Flying High in the Friendly Sky

Infidelity: I Heard It Through the Grapevine

Anti-War: What's Going On

Mortality: If I Should Die Tonight

Pollution/environment: Mercy Mercy Me

Children: Save the Children

Sex: You Sure Love to Ball, Feel All My Love Inside

Relationships: Just to Keep You Satisfied, All the Way 'Round

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

I have the album also, and Sweat Dreems is 5:35 long and is Whoops Now. 'Ive probably listened to it longer than you' - what's that got to do with anything, stop being patronising.

You've just done a 180 degree turn to what I've been saying the whole time. And I agree. Majority of her songs are a time effort - does that mean she is not a songwriter, no!

Sweet Dreams is not 5:35 long.

Sweet Dreams is just an interlude.

I have the album right here in my hands and it has Sweet Dreams as an official track with a time of 14 seconds. That is the official last track on the album.

The reason why Sweet Dreams lasts 5 minutes long is because it is connected with the hidden track Whoops Now and you have to wait an extra 8 seconds for Whoops Now to come on after Sweet Dreams.

Although Whoops Now is a hidden track, it does not have its own seperate track number and it appears 7-8 seconds after Sweet Dreams which makes it appear Sweet Dreams (the official track) is longer than what it technically is.

Similiar to Velvet Rope... Cant Be Stopped is a hidden track but it connects with Special but it does not have its own track number.

Songs like Cant Be Stopped and Whoops Now are not official tracks on the tracklisting.

There hidden songs.

I have argued this ENTIRE TIME that Janet is an artist that has been very involved in her music and received Co credits. The only song she has written as an official track is Black Cat. You were implying that she wrote everything BY herself and now you wanna insist you meant it as a team effort You backtrack so many times and make so many contradictions its not even funny.

I dont really see what the problem is foreal. I just simply said Janet didnt write the songs BY HERSELF despite some of her songs being about her experiences.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:44pm]

Show me where I implied/stated that she wrote everything by herself.

You implied she didn't write many lyrics and therefore 'not a songwriter.. the end'

I followed on to say that she has written some songs by herself e.g. Black cat as well as being credited as co-writer for an overwhelming majority of her songs and therefore is a songwriter.

[Edited 1/5/13 15:24pm]

mjscarousal said:

alphastreet said:

Janet herself told Luigi dahling he better start putting his name in the liner notes if they are going to continue writing together

Now let's play tiddlywinks and eat lobster

[Edited 1/5/13 14:46pm]

For the record, I really do like Whoops Now despite it being very simple, (simple/complex doesnt really matter to me a good song

is a good song) I think its really fun and a cute song. I also love the performance to it on the Janet Tour, its really creative.

She also made Rene get co credit because he didnt want to take the credit despite coming up with most of the lyrics.

[Edited 1/5/13 14:57pm]

proof? none.

The fact that Janet credited Rene despite him not requesting it shows that she is not one to force her name on to a song that she hasn't written.

[Edited 1/5/13 15:26pm]

Marley:

Religion: Get Up Stand Up (the song was actually attacking the theory about God being a person living in the sky, rather a God that was actually human), The Conquering Lion

Love: Waiting in Vain, Turn Your Lights Down Low

Liberation: Exodus, War

Freedom: Redemption Song

Partying: Jamming, Punky Reggae Party, Could You Be Loved?

Unity: One Love (People Get Ready)

Friendship: No Woman No Cry

Law Enforcement: I Shot the Sheriff

Struggle: Concrete Jungle, So Much Things They Say

Metallica

Can we please take the rest of this argument to orgnotes?

Graycap23 said:

namepeace said:

Man in the mirror was written by Siedia Garrett.

Well, there you have it.

Timmy84 said:

Marley:

Religion: Get Up Stand Up (the song was actually attacking the theory about God being a person living in the sky, rather a God that was actually human), The Conquering Lion

Love: Waiting in Vain, Turn Your Lights Down Low

Liberation: Exodus, War

Freedom: Redemption Song

Partying: Jamming, Punky Reggae Party, Could You Be Loved?

Unity: One Love (People Get Ready)

Friendship: No Woman No Cry

Law Enforcement: I Shot the Sheriff

Struggle: Concrete Jungle, So Much Things They Say

thank's for getting this back on track tim

I always loved how Marley could take a deathly serious political joint & then do a very sweet love song.

I mean many have done that but Marley was full of pain... and out of that came some great tracks of love to go with

Last time I checked guys, the name of this thread was

'Which Artists Are The Most Diverse lyrically?'

not

'Which Artists Are The Deep lyrically?'

That's HUGE difference. The only people who argue about 'deep' lyrics are usually kids who think that they are too cool for the billboard top 100.

Unholyalliance said:

Last time I checked guys, the name of this thread was

'Which Artists Are The Most Diverse lyrically?'

not

'Which Artists Are The Deep lyrically?'

That's HUGE difference. The only people who argue about 'deep' lyrics are usually kids who think that they are too cool for the billboard top 100.

That was the intent

But as i suspected this thread could have been informative about new and old artists who have a wide range of topics.

But it turned into more senseless arguing about MJ -.-

Unholyalliance said:

Last time I checked guys, the name of this thread was

'Which Artists Are The Most Diverse lyrically?'

not

'Which Artists Are The Deep lyrically?'

That's HUGE difference. The only people who argue about 'deep' lyrics are usually kids who think that they are too cool for the billboard top 100.

It also turned into another temper tantrum bickering over a dead man and his sibling.

[Edited 1/6/13 13:15pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

But it turned into more senseless arguing about MJ -.-

If you g(i)ave any thread on this site enough time it would become an MJ argument