LittleBLUECorvette said:

Guy's debut album may be the most influential from the past 20 years or so.

Early influential R&B records include Otis Redding's Otis Blue, Ray Charles What's I Said, JB's Live At the Apollo, Sam Cooke.

In that case, most of Otis' albums were quite influential but definitely Otis Blue and the Dictionary album. Don't know the What'd I Say album (but the single was mad influential). Ray didn't start being influential with albums until the two Modern Sounds albums. James' Apollo album was definitely a game changer (the first R&B album to sell a million copies). Sam Cooke's Ain't That Good News stands as one of the finest R&B albums ever made.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Did any of them have influential albums though? The Isleys Between The Sheets might be their most influential. Shout!, didn't even chart in 1959, so who know's.

The other 3 bands, naw, especialy Dazz Band.

Shout did chart...on the Billboard Hot 100. I think it peaked at 47. It also apparently did successful in Australia, hitting number two...according to Wikipedia and shit.

I mean the album.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Shout did chart...on the Billboard Hot 100. I think it peaked at 47. It also apparently did successful in Australia, hitting number two...according to Wikipedia and shit.

I mean the album.

Oh lol

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Guy's debut album may be the most influential from the past 20 years or so.

Early influential R&B records include Otis Redding's Otis Blue, Ray Charles What's I Said, JB's Live At the Apollo, Sam Cooke.

In that case, most of Otis' albums were quite influential but definitely Otis Blue and the Dictionary album. Don't know the What'd I Say album (but the single was mad influential). Ray didn't start being influential with albums until the two Modern Sounds albums. James' Apollo album was definitely a game changer (the first R&B album to sell a million copies). Sam Cooke's Ain't That Good News stands as one of the finest R&B albums ever made.

Modern Sounds were more influential in the jazz circuit, if I'm not mistaken.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

In that case, most of Otis' albums were quite influential but definitely Otis Blue and the Dictionary album. Don't know the What'd I Say album (but the single was mad influential). Ray didn't start being influential with albums until the two Modern Sounds albums. James' Apollo album was definitely a game changer (the first R&B album to sell a million copies). Sam Cooke's Ain't That Good News stands as one of the finest R&B albums ever made.

Modern Sounds were more influential in the jazz circuit, if I'm not mistaken.

Nah country. In any case, Ray didn't really have many memorable R&B albums but that was the case with most of them pre-1960s.

Timmy84 said:

Toofunkyinhere said:

Didn't RnB just evolve from New Jack Swing, which evolved from Funk/Disco, which evolved from Jazz?

No this is how the timeline goes:

Spirituals

Folk

Ragtime

Jazz

Blues

Swing

Jump Blues

Rhythm and blues (R&B)

Doo wop

Rock and roll

Soul music

Funk

Disco

Hip-hop

New jack swing

And now....crap

Timmy84 said:

Toofunkyinhere said:

Didn't RnB just evolve from New Jack Swing, which evolved from Funk/Disco, which evolved from Jazz?

No this is how the timeline goes:

Spirituals

Folk

Ragtime

Jazz

Blues

Swing

Jump Blues

Rhythm and blues (R&B)

Doo wop

Rock and roll

Soul music

Funk

Disco

Hip-hop

New jack swing

2000's - Lil Jon crap lol

Also we also need to include Snoop Dogg transformation from great Rapper to drizzle dizzle fo shizzle doosh bag and now Snoop Lion.

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Seems u guys are forgetting all about the Isley brothers, Ohio Players, the Dazz band, Mint Condition.

Gray, we're talking albums, not singles.

Can u define influential?

R. Kelly and Mint Condition are still on the Isley Brothers style in 2012.

Just because an album or song didnt chart or was not popular does not necessarily mean it cant be influential..... if that is the case there are alot of bands that I enjoyed growing up that didnt have high charting albums that I consider to be influential. Influence is not about accolades but more to do with artistic creativity, originality and how that enhances/ inspires music or a genre.

mjscarousal said:

Just because an album or song didnt chart or was not popular does not necessarily mean it cant be influential..... if that is the case there are alot of bands that I enjoyed growing up that didnt have high charting albums that I consider to be influential. Influence is not about accolades but more to do with artistic creativity, originality and how that enhances/ inspires music or a genre.

Exactly.

Unfortunately, it was this one and it influenced things for the worst. I mean, for R&B to become so weak that it never bounced back and snapped out of it, that's very influential.

Graycap23 said:

Timmy84 said:

Gray, we're talking albums, not singles.

Can u define influential?

R. Kelly and Mint Condition are still on the Isley Brothers style in 2012.

Dude, the thread said albums... if we were talking about singles, no doubt the Isleys were influential but we weren't discussing singles (which has for years been how R&B has really gotten by).

vainandy said:

Unfortunately, it was this one and it influenced things for the worst. I mean, for R&B to become so weak that it never bounced back and snapped out of it, that's very influential.

Andy, this is a pop album. Not an R&B album. This is what Clive Davis wanted. I'm sure Whitney probably wanted to do R&B but when you're told what to do, that's what happens. It influenced some black artists to look beyond R&B and record pop. Due to pop and hip-hop influences (the latter by Mary J. Blige's albums What's the 411? and My Life), that's when genres like contemporary R&B, hip-hop soul and neo soul came into the thing. R&B itself was dominated by smooth soul artists like Freddie Jackson and Anita Baker (something that you can blame Let's Get It On, I Want You and Quiet Storm on, not Whitney Houston).

Anyway, these are albums I found that were influential in terms of how R&B music changed:

[img:$uid]http://991.com/NewGallery/Smokey-Robinson-A-Quiet-Storm-522871.jpg[/img:$uid]

*Influenced the quiet storm, smooth soul and urban adult contemporary R&B genres of later years.

Which was predated by:

[img:$uid]http://www.rollingstone.com/assets/images/album_review/8e486b1f81936c4a4c59486eff6e3741904dfc1a.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i2.listal.com/image/productsus/1000/B00008RV1A/music/mothership-connection-parliament.jpg[/img:$uid]

*Brought space-age funk into the R&B field to the point that most groups wanted to do it for a minute until the sound fell out by the time Prince and MJ dominated the charts and then that died down. When George and 'em first came out though, R&B didn't play them because they were too controversial so their main audience was college audiences until this album.

[img:$uid]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj1u04mn901qzyibio1_500.jpg[/img:$uid][img:$uid]http://losslessjazz.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Curtis-Mayfield-Curtis-2000-FLAC.jpg[/img:$uid]

*These two albums, released in 1971 and 1970, influenced social commentary in R&B music and both albums influenced a certain Stevie Wonder too.

[img:$uid]http://www.waxpoetics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/sly-and-the-family-stone-stand.jpg[/img:$uid]

*Brought funk to the R&B genre even more so than James Brown did on singles. After that, you had a succession of funk albums.

[img:$uid]http://musicqwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/james-brown-live-at-the-apollo-part-1-front.jpeg[/img:$uid]

*Though Ray Charles preceded this achievement with his In Person album in 1959, James really set the standard for live R&B music with this album and due to its success (stayed on the charts for 14 months, peaked at number two and sold over a million copies, the first R&B album to do so - correct me if you think Modern Sounds was) of the record, other labels including Motown and Warner put similar albums out on the likes of Stevie Wonder and Ike & Tina Turner.

[img:$uid]http://www.rollingstone.com/assets/images/album_review/14a4e3a4487400457fe51b9144d8cc61c73cfc86.jpg[/img:$uid][img:$uid]http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/w/ware_leon~~_musicalma_101b.jpg[/img:$uid]

Along with Quiet Storm, these two albums not only influenced R&B radio to pick quiet storm, smooth soul and adult contemporary on its late night broadcasts, but it also predated the "neo soul" movement. And also added a light disco flair to R&B that was influenced by this particular album:

[img:$uid]http://www.ifmusic.co.uk/images/product_images/barrywhite-ivegotsomuchtogive.jpg[/img:$uid]

Who in turn was influenced by the albums of this man:

[img:$uid]http://www.funkmysoul.gr/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/front3.jpeg[/img:$uid]

(and this album influenced the 1970s albums not due to concept album format or serious subject matter but because it proved black albums could be multi-platinum since it sold two million copies by the end of 1969 and brought in cinematic soul and those progressive 15 minute songs)

This album helped to make soul music real popular in the mainstream:

[img:$uid]http://991.com/newGallery/Otis-Redding-Otis-Blue--Otis-R-511857.jpg[/img:$uid]

This one predated it:

[img:$uid]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PW9TM8RSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img:$uid]

Flash forward again to the '70s, this made disco part of R&B (for a while):

[img:$uid]http://www.theenglishgroup.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/donna-summer-love-to-love-you-baby.jpg[/img:$uid]

In the '80s:

[img:$uid]http://image.lyricspond.com/image/m/artist-marvin-gaye/album-midnight-love/cd-cover.jpg[/img:$uid]

The overall sound of this album (drum programming, handclaps, etc.) led to many R&B acts who were funk oriented to add it especially all over their albums. You could say Zapp had started it with "More Bounce" but that was the only track where that was done (the rest of the album had instrumentation). Eventually it influenced the Isley Brothers to do Between the Sheets and any other act that didn't wanna pay musicians so they started using drum programming and handclaps because it cost less. It predated the new jack swing sound and later albums by these acts added more to it:

[img:$uid]http://maurycio.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/loose-ends-zagora-1986.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://991.com/NewGallery/The-Sos-Band-On-The-Rise-523614.jpg[/img:$uid]

Which then leads to the new jack swing stuff:

[img:$uid]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jJR0MpGaXOc/TNJAWlY0TAI/AAAAAAAAAh0/koRYo5glIaI/s1600/Guy.jpg[/img:$uid]

Hip-hop and neo-soul started coming to the picture thanks to these handful of MJB albums:

[img:$uid]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514j%2BgHGnTL.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://danjlovesthe90s.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/mjb-my-life.jpg[/img:$uid]

Then of course:

[img:$uid]http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/71304556/Baduizm.png[/img:$uid]

*Brought in the "neo soul" genre to the forefront.

----

But that's really the point of this topic. Albums, not singles.

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Can u define influential?

R. Kelly and Mint Condition are still on the Isley Brothers style in 2012.

Dude, the thread said albums... if we were talking about singles, no doubt the Isleys were influential but we weren't discussing singles (which has for years been how R&B has really gotten by).

This makes no sense.

How u tell what tracks on any particular album influenced other artist?

Graycap23 said:

Timmy84 said:

Dude, the thread said albums... if we were talking about singles, no doubt the Isleys were influential but we weren't discussing singles (which has for years been how R&B has really gotten by).

This makes no sense.

How u tell what tracks on any particular album influenced other artist?

The album's sound, impact as far as sales and what people who bought the albums heard, Gray. Some of y'all didn't even get what LiLi was going on about. Since she's from Russia, she is not as exposed to R&B as we are here in the U.S. which is the only reason she thought Confessions was an influential R&B album. So if anything don't make sense, take it up with her, not me. That's all I'm saying.

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

This makes no sense.

How u tell what tracks on any particular album influenced other artist?

The album's sound, impact as far as sales and what people who bought the albums heard, Gray. Some of y'all didn't even get what LiLi was going on about. Since she's from Russia, she is not as exposed to R&B as we are here in the U.S. which is the only reason she thought Confessions was an influential R&B album. So if anything don't make sense, take it up with her, not me. That's all I'm saying.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

Seems u guys are forgetting all about the Isley brothers, Ohio Players, the Dazz band, Mint Condition.

Did any of them have influential albums though? The Isleys Between The Sheets might be their most influential. Shout!, didn't even chart in 1959, so who know's.

The other 3 bands, naw, especialy Dazz Band.

The Ohio Players with Fire for sure if for nothing else Sugarfoot's vocal delivery

influenced other lead singers of funk outfits like Larry Dodson, Larry Blackmon,

Lionel Richie, and Michael Cooper. As much as i like the Dazz Band they never

had an influential album and Mint Condition was born almost two decades late.

Timmy84 said:

vainandy said:

Unfortunately, it was this one and it influenced things for the worst. I mean, for R&B to become so weak that it never bounced back and snapped out of it, that's very influential.

Andy, this is a pop album. Not an R&B album. This is what Clive Davis wanted. I'm sure Whitney probably wanted to do R&B but when you're told what to do, that's what happens. It influenced some black artists to look beyond R&B and record pop. Due to pop and hip-hop influences (the latter by Mary J. Blige's albums What's the 411? and My Life), that's when genres like contemporary R&B, hip-hop soul and neo soul came into the thing. R&B itself was dominated by smooth soul artists like Freddie Jackson and Anita Baker (something that you can blame Let's Get It On, I Want You and Quiet Storm on, not Whitney Houston).

Yeah, after she came along. They wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell at dominating before her. As far as "Let's Get It On", "Quiet Storm", etc., that's a total different sound than late 1980s and the earlier sound was great, the late 80s sound was horrible. Plus, other stuff existed and actually dominated while those earlier songs were out. They were never any kind of threat to disco or funk which was dominating more than they were.

As for little miss goodie two shoes, yeah, you do what you're told to when you're either broke with no connections or you're the daughter of someone who has connections but is too weak to stand their ground. "Well, maybe she liked what she was being told?"....in that case, still weak. Weak taste.

Lili did not call Usher's Confessions album influential, I had misread what she said, I was wrong in that case . She was quoting what someone else had said.

I still think individual songs has everything to do with this arguement. Its all music related and contributes to an album. I dont see what the harm is in discussing how certain songs influenced albums or vice versa. There is no right or wrong answer. Some of yall act like yall are a EXPERT IN EVERYTHING and if someone questions you or disagrees that goes against the 10 commandments, please.

[Edited 12/6/12 15:33pm]

mjscarousal said:

Lili did not call Usher's Confessions album influential, I had misread what she said, I was wrong in that case . She was quoting what someone else had said.

I still think individual songs has everything to do with this arguement. Its all music related and contributes to an album. I dont see what the harm is in discussing how certain songs influenced albums or vice versa. There is no right or wrong answer. Some of yall act like yall are a EXPERT IN EVERYTHING and if someone questions you or disagrees that goes against the 10 commandments, please.

[Edited 12/6/12 15:33pm]

Individual songs definitely have a huge influence also. Most people's tastes are influenced during their teenage years and go into most music lovers' rooms in those days during their teenage years and you'd find a much bigger stack of 45s rather than albums. Albums were usually a treat for special occassions such as birthdays, Christmas, getting an unexpected good grade when you thought you were failing, graduating from one grade to another, or being bribed to stay home and not go out on a night that you REALLY want to go out. Hell, I used to fake wanting to go to a few events just to get the bride to stay home. And a LOT of time was spent recording songs off the radio onto tapes.

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/WhatdISay.jpg[/img:$uid]

Just saying the case can be made.

[Edited 12/6/12 16:04pm]

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

Andy, this is a pop album. Not an R&B album. This is what Clive Davis wanted. I'm sure Whitney probably wanted to do R&B but when you're told what to do, that's what happens. It influenced some black artists to look beyond R&B and record pop. Due to pop and hip-hop influences (the latter by Mary J. Blige's albums What's the 411? and My Life), that's when genres like contemporary R&B, hip-hop soul and neo soul came into the thing. R&B itself was dominated by smooth soul artists like Freddie Jackson and Anita Baker (something that you can blame Let's Get It On, I Want You and Quiet Storm on, not Whitney Houston).

Yeah, after she came along. They wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell at dominating before her. As far as "Let's Get It On", "Quiet Storm", etc., that's a total different sound than late 1980s and the earlier sound was great, the late 80s sound was horrible. Plus, other stuff existed and actually dominated while those earlier songs were out. They were never any kind of threat to disco or funk which was dominating more than they were.

As for little miss goodie two shoes, yeah, you do what you're told to when you're either broke with no connections or you're the daughter of someone who has connections but is too weak to stand their ground. "Well, maybe she liked what she was being told?"....in that case, still weak. Weak taste.

[img:$uid]http://oi41.tinypic.com/rcuc5k.jpg[/img:$uid]

There's no getting through to your Mississippi ass, is it?

Timmy84 said:

vainandy said:

Yeah, after she came along. They wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell at dominating before her. As far as "Let's Get It On", "Quiet Storm", etc., that's a total different sound than late 1980s and the earlier sound was great, the late 80s sound was horrible. Plus, other stuff existed and actually dominated while those earlier songs were out. They were never any kind of threat to disco or funk which was dominating more than they were.

As for little miss goodie two shoes, yeah, you do what you're told to when you're either broke with no connections or you're the daughter of someone who has connections but is too weak to stand their ground. "Well, maybe she liked what she was being told?"....in that case, still weak. Weak taste.

[img:$uid]http://oi41.tinypic.com/rcuc5k.jpg[/img:$uid]

There's no getting through to your Mississippi ass, is it?

My Mississippi ass can outjam anybody up North and can play some jams that people had absolutely completely forgotten about. We've always had a huge black population down here so if it was a jam, we got it, and it was played right here on good ole R&B radio.

I used to think the bigger cities got more jams than we did until years later when I got the internet and found some of the songs that never made it down here and I can see why because they sounded horrible and the radio had them but just didn't play them. I found a few actual jams that didn't make it down here but most of them were a regional thing mainly exclusive to a certain area and we had our own regional stuff too just like other places did. But from what I've seen, it's never been a matter of bigger cities getting more jams than the smaller cities. It's a matter of how big a black population there is in that area. I bet if you went somewhere like Montana or Wyoming back then, you weren't going to find a single jam.

^ Fool you ain't from Mississippi, you from New York. I see through you now.

LiLi1992 said:

not a "personal favorite" ...
we are about the impact on the next generation of artists.

I read the opinion that Confessions - most iconic RnB album of all time.
Songs In The Key Of Life, What's Going On, Off The Wall and Purple Rain were also icons, but did not have such an effect, as album by Usher (in opinion of this person) ... and since this is RnB and I'm not an expert in this style ...
I decided to ask you about that

James Brown - Live At the Apollo.

namepeace said:

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/WhatdISay.jpg[/img:$uid]

Just saying the case can be made.

Thank you.

I was going to say, influential for me personally, it would be a Ray Charles album...

...Drown In My Own Tears (originally recorded on his debut album)

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

theAudience said:

namepeace said:

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/WhatdISay.jpg[/img:$uid]

Just saying the case can be made.

Thank you.

I was going to say, influential for me personally, it would be a Ray Charles album...

...Drown In My Own Tears (originally recorded on his debut album)

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

He fused the main genres that were the building blocks for R&B, gospel, blues, jazz, etc.