What side of the fence do you fall on??

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PROS

** It is well known that Axl Rose and Izzy Stradlin were the main songwriters of the original band and in many respects, Chinese Democracy sounds like a natural progression from the Use Your Illlusions albums (I can definately imagine songs like Street of Dreams, This I Love and TWAT being on UYI).

** Old links from the original lineup remain in place, Dizzy Reed is still in the band and Paul Tobias (long time GNR collaborater) co-wrote a number of tracks on Chinese Democracy.

** Axl's charismatic onstage persona was a huge part of what made GNR so exciting in the late 80s/early 90s and that rock and roll spirit remains. While Slash is busy whoring himself playing guitar on car adverts, Axl is still pissing people off, pushing buttons and generally being a world class rockstar.

CONS

** From the original Appetite For Destruction lineup, only Axl remains.

** Slash was an integral part of the original GNR sound and his guitar solos and tone are sorely missed on Chinese Democracy.

** The new band has failed to deliver a credible output of original music themselves and haven't really established themselves as much more than a GNR cover band.

[Edited 11/9/12 7:56am]

without slash it just doesn't feel the same no matter how good the new band may be.

I don't know much about Guns N Roses, but without Slash it's like the Rollings Stones without Keith Richards, just not the same band.

It's not really something that bothers me much. I'm a big fan of Izzy and once he left it didn't really feel the same. I will say that Chinese Democracy is much better than I thought that it was going to be and who knows, maybe it is better than anything that the original band would have been capable of circa 2008?

It's the Axl Rose band, not Guns 'n' Roses

But then, I know people who say that Fleetwood Mac with Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nicks is not really Fleetwood Mac

It's Axl Rose and Co.

No, I call it Axl N Friends.

Axl, like an MPLS imp owns all the legal hulabaloo for GN'R so its the real deal but fans know otherwise. Slash is still living large so there are no sad faces in his camp, Axl is going the way of Jim Morrison with the White Castle/fast food of choice diet and general shitty attitude.

Yeah, I do. At the end of the day, Axl's vocals are what makes it G'N'R.

If that weren't the case, I'd have enjoyed Velvet Revolver's work a lot more since that would technically be "more" of the original GnR.

But I'd still take the worst song on Chinese Democracy over the best Velvet Revolver material.

...

Eh, idk. As much as i adore the classic GNR lineups.

I think Chinese Democracy was a good album & all the bootleg songs that didn't make the album where even better.

I Think if Axl could grow up & quit acting batshit crazy... he could do great work with ANY band.

PLus GNR is a difficult one when it comes to lineups, i love the UYI albums & line-ups the most... and i loved Izzy to.

I am not that big of a Steven Adler fan, i much prefer Matt Sorum.

But there are some ''snobs'' who think only Appettite & GNR Lies where the original band, some think Duff, Slash, Matt & Axl are the definitive & original band.

Some accept both

And then there was the brief Buckethead era.. and now this

But i would listen to anything Axl does, as much as i dislike him.

NO, I just needed to look at that pic for 3 seconds: disgusting, irritating and miserable

they're just "Axl Rose and His New Guns N' Roses Mach II", a covers band...

I don't think anyone outside of the hardcore purists really care who plays lead guitar in the band. When the current band do the old songs in concert, it still sounds like original Guns N Roses, because its Axl singing and nobody can sing GNR songs but Axl.

I'm not that keen on Chinese Democracy or Slash's solo albums, but in terms of who I'd rather go and see in concert, I'd take the current version of GNR anyday over Slash with his revolving door of nobody kareoke singers doing poor Axl Rose impressions.

Not hell no, not shit no, but motherf*** no!

As a matter of fact, The Velvet Revolver (featuring Slash, Duff, & Matt) was a lot closer to "the real" Guns N Roses than any bullshit replacement version that Axl has struggle to come up with.

Yes, I said it.

BobGeorge909 said:

By no means do I consider that group of people Guns n' Roses. And I'm no metalhead or anything or even a hairband freak or anything. I also say this band Prince has now is NOT the NPG...I don't care what the billing say. In my eyes....the NPG is Sunny on Bass, Michael in drums and Morris and Tommy on keys. When one changes the fundamental members of the band, the name of the band needs to change too....just to simply reflect the facts. If peripheral members change or one member leaves or something, that's different. But if u drop the whole damn band and have a new line-up....get a new name to Goddamnit! Do NOT leach off of an old identity like that....eve if u did create it....its misleading and false.

But Prince's name is the one that's on the marquee. There's going to be an ongoing debate about what a band name means and how they use it.

It comes down to Slash, Duff, and Izzy quitting as to why Axl feels fine about using it.

I mean, you saw what happened when Prince didn't allow The Time to use the name, even though he was a founder, producer, etc - that made no sense though. He did one album with them, and in the past few years he pulls a power trip on old friends/bandmates?

Axl and Prince would be a good joint interview, and prob. have a lot to talk about. The record industry, conspiracy theories, etc.

Chinese Democracy > Velvet Revolver > Slash's solo albums

I don't like GNR that much so I don't really care.

I will say this though, there have been SO MANY GNR lineups post-Slash, that I can see how the fans aren't able to get a lot of love happening for the new people.

You know, Deep Purple replaced some key members at a few different points. The Ian Gillan lineup was immediately popular, there was very little crowing about how they should have stuck with Rod Evans. Even though it wasn't the original lineup most people recognized it was better.

But the David Coverdale lineup has its fans too, because it had a repertoire all its own and for people who saw that band live for the first time, to them that WAS Deep Purple. And when they hit the road, they didn't just dust off their old hits, they focused mainly on current material. When New GNR hit LA a few months ago the big talk was how they were doing most of the songs from Appetite. That's not how you get people to forget Slash, dudes!

If New GNR would make another album that connected with the fans, they could start to crawl out from under Slash's top hat. That's "all" it will take. It was pretty obvious that Appetite was not just about the singer. It was equally obvious that Chinese Democracy WAS pretty much about the singer, and I imagine Axl believes it himself.

Those new kids are gonna have to step up if they wanna knock old Slash off the table. He's not the most amazing guitarist but when he plays those songs, it's obvious who's playing.

TonyVanDam said:

As a matter of fact, The Velvet Revolver (featuring Slash, Duff, & Matt) was a lot closer to "the real" Guns N Roses than any bullshit replacement version that Axl has struggle to come up with.

Yes, I said it.

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Also, I love Slash, but Robin Finck is a way more interesting songwriter and guitarist to me, and has proved himself not only with his co-writes on the Chinese Democracy album, but also his work with Nine Inch Nails.

Militant said:

TonyVanDam said:

As a matter of fact, The Velvet Revolver (featuring Slash, Duff, & Matt) was a lot closer to "the real" Guns N Roses than any bullshit replacement version that Axl has struggle to come up with.

Yes, I said it.

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Oh, he was?? How do yo want to know... all 5 share equal songwriting on their best album AFD. All of them had songwriting credits on the UYI albums.

As for CD being a million times better?!? Geeez! That's ridiculous. It's not as bad as some people want to make you believe, it's a solid album, but it's also not that great. Don't get me wrong, I really like Better, TWAT, TIL, Madagascar and lately Shackler's Revenge (at least the live version) but really, VR also has some great songs like Headspace, Slither, Sucker train blues, Do it for the kids, Fall to pieces as well as some of Slash's solo songs. So really, none of them has the edge over the other.

And really, "Better" is a Robin Finck song. Even Axl stated that at one of the shows. And "Street of dreams" really is a crap song. Just horrible. And if you think that CD is "one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade" then you really should listen to more rock music.

As for Axl, he is Roses without Guns (or Roses with hired Guns ). It's his solo project with people he seems to like... nothing more. I take it for what it is and enjoy it, but I still wish I could have GNR back.

[Edited 11/12/12 13:05pm]

It isn't really a competition as to who is more like Guns 'n' Roses, because only one band is actually claiming that name.

And in fact, they are Guns 'n' Roses. Maybe not my favorite incarnation of them, but they are them just the same.

Militant said:

TonyVanDam said:

As a matter of fact, The Velvet Revolver (featuring Slash, Duff, & Matt) was a lot closer to "the real" Guns N Roses than any bullshit replacement version that Axl has struggle to come up with.

Yes, I said it.

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Hate to say it.. but as a huge GNR fan you are right!

VR where a good rock band, but CD had the micture of rock, classical, metal, industrial etc. That was on Use Your Illusion.

The strict appetite for destruction only fans would say VR is better, but for those like myself who prefer Use Your Illusion.. i don't see how they couldn't dig Chinese Democracy.

I guess that only Axl cares about GNR these days so yes i accept that's what it is now and i really liked Chinese Democracy.Pity that the material on both VR albums was sub par. I would still rate Appetite as awesome and is in my top 5 albums of all time but i like and accept all incarnations. If only Axl would get his head out of his arse and stop being a prick, i will never pay to see him again, i saw him in 2006 and it was a great concert but i don't want to be dicked around waiting for him to come on stage when it's a work night and more than likely i have used public transport. If he sorted himself out he could be awesome again. We need another new album and a tour of regular peformances. then maybe people will start to see him as the rock icon he thinks he is (maybe he is idk)

bigd74 said:

start to see him as the rock icon he thinks he is (maybe he is idk)

Well. He is. No question about that.

Gunsnhalen said:

Militant said:

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Hate to say it.. but as a huge GNR fan you are right!

VR where a good rock band, but CD had the micture of rock, classical, metal, industrial etc. That was on Use Your Illusion.

The strict appetite for destruction only fans would say VR is better, but for those like myself who prefer Use Your Illusion.. i don't see how they couldn't dig Chinese Democracy.

Exactly!!!!

PatrickS77 said:

Militant said:

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Oh, he was?? How do yo want to know... all 5 share equal songwriting on their best album AFD. All of them had songwriting credits on the UYI albums.

As for CD being a million times better?!? Geeez! That's ridiculous. It's not as bad as some people want to make you believe, it's a solid album, but it's also not that great. Don't get me wrong, I really like Better, TWAT, TIL, Madagascar and lately Shackler's Revenge (at least the live version) but really, VR also has some great songs like Headspace, Slither, Sucker train blues, Do it for the kids, Fall to pieces as well as some of Slash's solo songs. So really, none of them has the edge over the other.

And really, "Better" is a Robin Finck song. Even Axl stated that at one of the shows. And "Street of dreams" really is a crap song. Just horrible. And if you think that CD is "one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade" then you really should listen to more rock music.

As for Axl, he is Roses without Guns (or Roses with hired Guns ). It's his solo project with people he seems to like... nothing more. I take it for what it is and enjoy it, but I still wish I could have GNR back.

[Edited 11/12/12 13:05pm]

Come on, dude. You can't be serious. All 5? Really? So you think Adler had any real contributions? Slash had some riff contributions, Duff came up with bits and pieces, but MOST of AFD songwriting wise is Axl and Izzy. Period. Everyone knows that. Read any GnR biog. Hell, ask the band members.

I'll repeat, there is no VR material better than Chinese Democracy. Their best song doesn't compare to CD's best songs.

And yeah, obviously Finck had a big hand in "Better" - I said as much above, that I rate him as a songwriter. Hence why I said I prefer him as a songwriter to Slash. Josh Freese too.

I listen to a metric fuck-ton (a real, quantifiable amount ) of rock. Chinese Democracy, the title track is in my Top 10 rock songs of the last decade. Without a doubt. If there are soooooooo many harder, more powerful songs, name some. We'll probably disagree. That's the thing about opinions

Also, when people say they want the original G'N'R - what exactly do you want and why? Half the people just want the imagery and "iconic-ness" of Axl and Slash on a stage. Musically, Axl's worked with better guitarists. Dizzy Reed is still with the band. Izzy still plays with Axl every now and then. Duff has played with GNR recently also. It's not like the world exploded with excitement cos freakin' Duff McKagan got on stage with Axl Rose again. Nobody gives a shit whether Adler rejoins the group or not.

My ideal line-up of G'n'R has Axl, Dizzy, Finck, Freese, Izzy......listen, I'm not gonna complain if Axl and Slash work things out but it's really not that big of a deal MUSICALLY. It's not like Slash is the greatest guitarist of all time. As I said, Axl's worked with players much more proficient - like Buckethead.

Most people want that line-up together for nostalgia purposes, not because there's some sort of magic gel that makes them more than the sum of their respective parts.

[Edited 11/12/12 15:09pm]

"Come on, dude. You can't be serious. All 5? Really? So you think Adler had any real contributions? Slash had some riff contributions, Duff came up with bits and pieces, but MOST of AFD songwriting wise is Axl and Izzy. Period. Everyone knows that. Read any GnR biog. Hell, ask the band members."

Well, Steven brought in the cowbells! My point is, since they all received the same share of songwriting, there is no real telling who did what... and regardless of what some people say or think, they collaborated on those songs. Each brought something to the table and made AFD what it is. Alas, if you take them apart, all of them are missing something. Axl is missing something, Izzy is missing something, Slash is missing something and Duff is missing something.

"I'll repeat, there is no VR material better than Chinese Democracy. Their best song doesn't compare to CD's best songs."

That's what you are saying. Don't agree with that at all.

"And yeah, obviously Finck had a big hand in "Better" - I said as much above, that I rate him as a songwriter. Hence why I said I prefer him as a songwriter to Slash. Josh Freese too. "

Well, then you shouldn't single out "Better" to highlight that Axl is the better songwriter.

"I listen to a metric fuck-ton (a real, quantifiable amount ) of rock. Chinese Democracy, the title track is in my Top 10 rock songs of the last decade. Without a doubt. If there are soooooooo many harder, more powerful songs, name some. We'll probably disagree. That's the thing about opinions "

A "metric fuck-ton"? Wow. What ever that is. There are plenty of harder, but since it's a matter of opinion I won't go there. There is no point really, just to say that I don't agree.

"Also, when people say they want the original G'N'R - what exactly do you want and why? Half the people just want the imagery and "iconic-ness" of Axl and Slash on a stage. Musically, Axl's worked with better guitarists. Dizzy Reed is still with the band. Izzy still plays with Axl every now and then. Duff has played with GNR recently also. It's not like the world exploded with excitement cos freakin' Duff McKagan got on stage with Axl Rose again. Nobody gives a shit whether Adler rejoins the group or not. "

I want the people, who crafted these songs. The people that lived through those songs. The people that came from nowhere and worked their way to the top, not some stand ins, who play other people's songs (and I'm not saying that the stand ins don't play the songs well, they are just not the real deal... that's why nowadays when seeing "GNR" live I really just ignore them and watch Axl). And yes... there was a large part of GNR that did explode when Duff joined them on stage. Also I'd take Slash playing a rock show over some supposed better guitarists any day of the week and twice on sunday.

"Most people want that line-up together for nostalgia purposes, not because there's some sort of magic gel that makes them more than the sum of their respective parts."

Well, yes... there is some magic gel when they are together. I've seen Axl (with Izzy), Duff and Slash several times this and last year and each brings something to the table, they each where great in their own way... but them being together just lifts them over the top. And I did see them together back in the day.

[Edited 11/12/12 16:11pm]

Militant said:

TonyVanDam said:

As a matter of fact, The Velvet Revolver (featuring Slash, Duff, & Matt) was a lot closer to "the real" Guns N Roses than any bullshit replacement version that Axl has struggle to come up with.

Yes, I said it.

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Excuse you, but Slash came up with the guitar notes for Sweet Child O' Mine long BEFORE Axl came up with the song lyrics.

TonyVanDam said:

Militant said:

No, because Axl was still the MAIN songwriter in the "original GnR".

Chinese Democracy is about a million times better than anything VR ever did, or anything those guys have done in any other project.

I'd like to see Slash write a song as good as "Better", or "Street of Dreams", or even the title track, which is one of the hardest, most powerful, rock songs of the last decade.

Excuse you, but Slash came up with the guitar notes for Sweet Child O' Mine long BEFORE Axl came up with the song lyrics.

but.... Axl still wrote the lyrics all of them for scom

which is there most overrated song anywho