This is a discussion.

If you partcipate, would you refrain from attacking the poster, but rather attack the point, or defend your argument.

Please type in a manner, where your argument can be read.


If you are sensitive and only watch pg13 movies, than maybe you should not take part in this discussion.


Question.

Is there a such thing as Black music?
If so, why so and what is it?
What qualities does it posses?

If not, then why is there not a such thing as Black music?

Do you have to have a cultural context to apprecaite music?

If music is not limited by race, then whay are people that make it put into race based catogries?

Is race seperate from music?

---
Now, I understand this is the org and some people may not be able to critically analyze music or its meaning.

Aim. Shoot. Fire.

Yeah there is a such thing of black music, even flea from the red hot chillie peppers agreed. Soul music is black music and once upon a time ago rock n roll was a form of black music... R&B and Hip Hop is a very black thing, that's why it's always a controversy when you have guys like Emenim trying do the music, it was created by black people which made it a black thing... how in the world can you not say that FUNK is not a black thing?

YOu see the blues started back back back in the days when there where still slaves here in america. It was away where they could give each other messages without the white man knowing anything about it. Wany in the water is one of those songs that has alot of symbolic meaning to it. Even back in Africa they used drums to interpt when danger was coming or when there was a celebration like somebody getting married or something. I know some people don't like to think of music as being a race thing, but I believe that there is a difference between black music and white music. That's why you get a lot of white kids like Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguerlira,trying to do black music.

The thing I think what changed it though was motown. They made black music safe for white audience to listen to, I would even say little Richard had part of it too. WHite kids got hip to it and started adding there part to black music. Soul, Funk , hip hop and R&B will always be a black thing. It will always be apart of the our black culture. This is why I'm such a big fan of music because this is one way we can learn about each other in a ordely fashion

Thanks for your response.

DigitalLisa said:

Music is a part of every culture, and some people attach racial connotations to it, but music shouldn't have any 'barriers', it's an expression of what's in the heart and mind, and what sings in one's soul, that sometimes touches particular groups of people in certain ways that can understand its meaning, but that could and should be universal, felt and explored by all, and in many different ways, and much more...
[This message was edited Thu Feb 27 19:52:01 PST 2003 by Starmist7]

Give me some examples of black music XL.

Starmist7 said:

It should be this way but the fact is, there is a difference. You don't hear alot of black people listening to Bruce Springstein or Bon Jovi When Elvis Presly first came out he was critized for sounding to black,but then you know the rest is history

DigitalLisa said:

depends on which Area of the Country you live in? Mother Afirca Sprang all Music we now know.African Creation.I Think Talent is Talent Period but there are Double-Standards.Elvis was a Very Versatile Artist Period.Spingsteen Myself&quite a Few Folks I Know have checked Him out over the Years.Bon Jovi had some Props back in 86.depends on where You Live&who you talk to.

DigitalLisa said:

Yeah I know the difference, but it still can be, if people allow those barries to fall because it's these kinds of things that limit people from growing, through music, and beyond...
[This message was edited Thu Feb 27 20:30:29 PST 2003 by Starmist7]

XL you've been talking a lot of shit with no reference points. Give me in your own words examples of black music.

NO. THERE IS NOT SUCH A THING AS BLACK MUSIC...

nor is there such a thing a white music.

Music should have no particular color attached to it. It would be racist to do so.

How many white folks sings the blues (beside Eric Clapton)?
Not 2 many white boys understand the concept of funk
In fact Teena Marie said she wanted to be the first white person on Motown records, so that says what?

Rumpofsteelskin said:

songs edited.....

Most songs u wouldnt hear a caucasian person playin in their house or car in front of their family or other!!!
[This message was edited Fri Feb 28 6:36:01 PST 2003 by paisleypark4]
[This message was edited Fri Feb 28 6:58:10 PST 2003 by paisleypark4]

savoirfaire said:

no matter what u guys say, unless u try 2 act like it dont exist yes..there always is goin 2 be black people music, white people music, asian people music, mexican music, jamacian music. Dont hide from the truth.

We are all united as One poeple. But in all...THERE IS BLACK MUSIC. THERE IS BLACK PEOPLE ONLY kind of music in the world. Music any other race wouldnt dare 2 cover. As the songs I named above, another race would'nt DARE touch those songs

paisleypark4 said:

Please edit your answers. I know black music I don't think XL does. You're giving the answers away!
[This message was edited Fri Feb 28 17:00:50 PST 2003 by Rumpofsteelskin]

Rumpofsteelskin said:[quote]

paisleypark4 said:

now edit my answers so he can do it...
[This message was edited Fri Feb 28 6:59:19 PST 2003 by paisleypark4]

paisleypark4 said:

Yes, this is true. I hate it when people get so politically correct about everything. Saviorfaire said it would be racist to attach a clor or race to types of music, and if that's the case, then so be it. I guess I'd be considered racist then.

Which is another point: people are always defending themselves when it comes to racism, and walking on eggshells when the topic arises, but EVERYONE has a bit of racist in them whether they like to admit it or not. I mean, I pretty sure most people have had a racist thought or two in their lifetimes, that just popped into their mind. That doesn't mean that we are evil, and bad people. It's human nature. I would be lying to myself and everyone if I sat here and tried to be all politically correct and say, "Oh, music has no particular race or color attached to it." I think that's bullshit. All music is rooted from wherever it first originated, and I hope music today hasn't gotten so homogenized that we can't even say anymore where it came from. To know where and what music has evolved from, you must go to the source and recognize that for what it was. I would think that the black community would be proud of their musical heritage, because it is one of the most influential and beautiful of them all. It has permeated almost everything we hear today, whether it's blues, rap, soul, ska, jazz, reggae, disco, original house, R & B, to the Top 40s manufactured "music" that we hear today. Now that's something to be proud of and own up to!
IMO

Rumpofsteelskin said:

To me, there is no such thing as black music. In stymieworld, there is only good music and bad music. I am what people choose to call "Black" and I listen to Red Hot Chili Peppers, Marilyn Manson, Nickelback, NIN, etc., and I don't consider it to be white music. Also, one of my closest friends is what people choose to "White" and he listens to at least ten of the above-mentioned songs, not because it's Black music to him, it's because it's good.

stymie said:

I totally agree w/ minneapolisgenius. But I hav 2 say that in ur case, good music n badmusic 2 u, but as long as there is categories of where music is supposed 2 go in the US, there always going 2 be a distance of race in the music.

When was the last time u seen a crowd of caucasians in the r&B section...ok? When was the last time u seen Marylyn Manson hosting R&B jams on MTV2 huh? Explain..yeah, u cant.

I am freely open minded about these things, and peole want 2 act like racism do not exist, but...Girl, U know It's True!

Paisley, you are kidding me, right? When we have old school r & b discussions on the org, do you really believe everybody in the discussion is black? And as far as this statement is concerned:

"When was the last time u seen a crowd of caucasians in the r&B section...ok? When was the last time u seen Marylyn Manson hosting R&B jams on MTV2 huh? Explain..yeah, u cant.
I am freely open minded about these things, and peole want 2 act like racism do not exist, but...Girl, U know It's True!"

I see caucasian people in the r&b section of the record store I frequent all the time, because it is what it is: rhythm and blues. It doesn't state that it is Black people music only. Also, who's to say Manson or any other white person didn't want to host r & b on MTV2? Maybe it's stereotypes that prevent such things from happening. When did I say in my post that racism doesn't exist? I simply stated that I don't choose to categorize myself as a race.

I would prefer to use the term "culturally inspired music" when speaking on the differences in "Black" and "white" music. While rock & roll music was definitely a form of music created and developed by the African American culture in this country, the form it exists in today has heavy European influences; i.e. the British Invasion of the 60's. And while I will admit that many of these British acts were influenced by African-American Blues and R&B acts of the period, they brought their own experiences into the music. Before that you only had people like Elvis who were doing nothing more than playng black music i.e. Rock and Roll. The Rock and Roll of the 70's moved away from groove and rhythm heavy tunes. Really what we ended up with was Rock without the Roll. I personally enjoy groove heavy music so I tend to listen to R&B and some hip hop but I can appreciate a nice groove by a non R&B Band like the Red Hot Chili Peppers if it's funky. The problem for my ears with a group like that though is the other half of the equation, the vocals. The vocals by groups like that are more "Euro influenced" Without breaking down why someone sounds "black" or someone sounds "white" it would take a fool to deny that a difference doesn't exists. Justin Timberlake sings in a "black" style. Forget if you think he can sing or not, just focus on the style and try and tell me he's not. It's a case of you know it when you hear it. Cultures just developed their own styles in music. This is nothing new or even something that can be intelligently debated. Would you also argue that Mexican music doesn't have it's own sound or style? So I guess my point is I both agree and disagree there is "Black" and "White" music. Where we can not deny the origins of the styles we have in "black" and "white" music, the two have both influenced and made their way into the other. This line we become even more blurred in the years to come but it will never change the roots. Just my 2 cents.

stymie said:

No I was sayin in my point of view! I have worked at Sam Good for 8 Months b4 I quit, and I was just tellin u from what I observed in DT Minneapolis of all mixed places in the world. I remember this one caucasian woman she was about 50 years old...

She came up to my counter and I stared at the music she was buying...it was like Mya, Destiny's Child, Alexander O Neal and stuff, and she said something like, "yeah I appreciate black music alot more do u know why?" And I started laughing and said, "how come?" And she said, "Because black music has more rhythm and the singers even sound better. All I have in my house is only black music."

I was completely shocked by what she was saying to me, a little old lady tellin me this, lol!

Sometimes I dont want 2 say that I am a race either, nor do i act like it, everyone say that I seem like I would be leaning not twards black or white...the way it is supposed 2 b.

Hey but when it comes 2 defendin my black foks I step UP!

Now, yes there is a differnece, that's just how the world turns.

paisleypark4 said:

Point well taken.

This really isn't a difficult question to answer at all if you've studied the history of African and American music. Unfortunately in light of the thread that was started (and eventually deleted) prior to this one I feel an agenda going on.

intha916 said:

I like this reply the best. Cultural origins of music is important but at the end, the deciding factor is if like the song.

minneapolisgenius said:

You are SO right. It's too bad many people are just insecure about these types of discussions.
[This message was edited Fri Feb 28 23:56:15 PST 2003 by Bladerunner]

Supernova said:

So what is your answer?

minneapolisgenius said:

Oh please. It's exactly that frame of mind that restricts us from breaking free from color barriers. All people have racism in them you say? How do you know this? Can you get into every person's mind. I sure as hell don't, and it makes me sick, and I mean sick, that you would think this. Music does not have ANY boundaries, and that includes the racial boundary. Don't give me this reggae, blues, jazz is exclusively black nonsense. The only reason it's dominated by black people is because the listening public would not give white artists a chance if they listened to it. Black people can be proud of their musical contributions, just as white people can. Actually scratch that. Individual musicians can be proud of their musical contributions. Goddamn, you can't assign music by black artists to ALL the black community. If a black guy commits a crime would you say ALL black people contribute to crime? Or how about this, Einstein conjured up the theory of relativity, so can I say ALL white people contributed to the theory of relativity?

Seriously, where the fuck do you get off restricting musicians who aren't black to not play what they want?

Lastly, yes there are various cultural contributions to music, but it doesn't make the music exclusively of that culture. Real music is about transcending borders, and breaking down cultural walls. Rich, poor, black, white, we all can appreciate music, and we don't need to segregate it. That would be the worst thing that could be done.

Now, I'm sorry if this gets you or anybody else angry, but it has to be said. I'm sick of all the double-standards, don't take blame for the bad/take credit for the good, flawed racial rhetoric, and skewed semantics that the org community seems to so often apply in this racial discussions.

Post away. Whatever. Maybe I should pull an IceNine, and give up trying to highlight this stuff. Just let it be, and allow people to continue to fret and worry about colors, when nothing is really being accomplished except for an increased feeling of separation between various communities.

By the way, I'm black, but that shouldn't matter.

savoirfaire said:

http://www.prince.org/msg...msg_408478

And of course, the well known Black Entertainment Television, or BET. Still no word as to when White Entertainment Television, or WET will be on the air.


yeah you are black alright.

HAHA.

I knew my terrible past was going to be dug up after this one. that was quicker than I expected though.



Well done.

But the key thing to remember about this is my skin color shouldn't matter. I think searching my past illustrates this best. why did you have to bother?

Assuming my post was absolute shit, which many of you may or may not feel, why would there be justification in finding out if I was black or white? You could just say "that post is shit, it doesn't matter what color he is", without needing to do a search.

Or, let's pretend, you actually appreciated my post. Once again, you wouldn't need to search my past to find out my color before deciding if you should agree with me or not.

In other words, why did it matter? Once again, the credibility of a post, regardless of if it was valid or not (that's subjective, keep in mind), all boiled down to the color of my skin.

Now, I wasn't intending to deceive, nor do I expect any self-sustaining individual to feel deceived. I was hoping that my "Black Mask" lasted longer, just to see if there was a response to it. But I would have come clear. Nonetheless, I think the quick search and response illustrated a different point in a different way.

Once again, most will arrive at their own conclusions, so it doesn't matter what I propose.

obviously it mattered to you since YOU are the only one who brought it up. no one bothered to even ask who was what race in this thread. and all that talking you're doing only makes you seem defensive.
[This message was edited Sat Mar 1 1:27:09 PST 2003 by Wolf]