HAPPYPERSON said:

another thing, its crazy how Janet got so much heat from her malfunction When Madonna purposely flashed hers yesterday and didn't get any outrage

Though some may choose to deny this, Madonna is and will always remain Pop’s greatest innovator, second only to Michael Jackson.

SNIP

Slightly different case when you're at a private concert versus a publicly televised event.

Hell you can't even COMPARE the two. Totally different.

Timmy84 said:

Hell you can't even COMPARE the two. Totally different.

Madonna already got her worldwide hate back in '92. The difference is Madonna still had more time to get unsexual and sell records. Janet didn't have the time.

VoicesCarry said:

There are a few elements to my answer:

1. Janet was 37 when the SuperBowl happened, so her time as a Top 40 radio staple was coming to a close regardless of the reaction to her stunt. However, I think Damita Jo, especially if released in its original form (rather than the rushed "censored" version of the album that Virgin forced her to slap together after the SB) would have sold much better, perhaps hitting 2-3 million in the USA, and generated several significant hits.

2. I think she would have toured with DJ (the big problem was finding a sponsor after the SB) and that would have kept her fanbase much more energized.

3. I think the follow-up albums would have been completely different than 20 YO and Discipline.

i agree with #3 100%. without nipplegate dj would have probably sold around 2 million and janet would have toured, there was no way she would have released another album in 2006 . the emergence of jermaine dupri as a major player in her career would not have happened.

Janet was already an old 80s/90s pop star past her prime at the time of the Superbowl. If anything it kept her somewhat relevant at the time.

Terrib3Towel said:

Janet was already an old 80s/90s pop star past her prime at the time of the Superbowl. If anything it kept her somewhat relevant at the time.

Are you kidding? Janet was still popular before the Superbowl.. She sold out stadiums with All 4 U.

Terrib3Towel said:

Janet was already an old 80s/90s pop star past her prime at the time of the Superbowl. If anything it kept her somewhat relevant at the time.

She achieved the 3rd biggest hit of her career with All For You's title track

With the same music? Probably in the same place. She quit caring about her music career before DamitaJo and hasn't put in any effort since, so I don't see how it would be different. It was already becoming evident with AFY, with her thousand yard stare in interviews and that there were 2 of every song on that album (which was already a rehash of janet. and TVR to begin with). 20 YO was a creative and commercial disaster with no Super Bowl to blame it on. Discipline was a step in the right direction, musically, but she was even more absent. The fact that she toured for it is astounding, but I saw the show. It was fun. But robotic.

If she's going to bother having a music career, I'm hoping she'll be present for it next time around.

Janet was the biggest blacklisted star ever after SB! No ifs or buts about that - so her career without question would be different to what it has become.

Radio stations across the states were told they couldn't play her music even if they wanted to, requests to play her songs were ignored and the rest of the world like sheep followed suit.

It was a huge political scandal. MTV turned their backs on her - have they ever done that to any other artist in their history? - They still suppored Madge in 92 and Michael throughout is allegations.

I doubt Janet would have still be the major player she once was but she would have still churned out a few more hits and bigger tours.

[Edited 6/11/12 1:05am]

mancabdriver said:

Janet was the biggest blacklisted star ever after SB! No ifs or buts about that - so her career without question would be different to what it has become.

Radio stations across the states were told they couldn't play her music even if they wanted to, requests to play her songs were ignored and the rest of the world like sheep followed suit.

It was a huge political scandal. MTV turned their backs on her - have they ever done that to any other artist in their history? - They still suppored Madge in 92 and Michael throughout is allegations.

I doubt Janet would have still be the major player she once was but she would have still churned out a few more hits and bigger tours.

[Edited 6/11/12 1:05am]

YEP.

It was pretty fucked up what happened. They blew the Superbowl WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of proportion for something so small (in my opinion) if you looked away for ONE sec you wouldnt of seen it like alot of people didnt.

I still cant get over how Justin just left her out to dry like that. Didnt once speak out for her or stood up for her and his role in the performance.

mjscarousal said:

mancabdriver said:

Janet was the biggest blacklisted star ever after SB! No ifs or buts about that - so her career without question would be different to what it has become.

Radio stations across the states were told they couldn't play her music even if they wanted to, requests to play her songs were ignored and the rest of the world like sheep followed suit.

It was a huge political scandal. MTV turned their backs on her - have they ever done that to any other artist in their history? - They still suppored Madge in 92 and Michael throughout is allegations.

I doubt Janet would have still be the major player she once was but she would have still churned out a few more hits and bigger tours.

[Edited 6/11/12 1:05am]

YEP.

It was pretty fucked up what happened. They blew the Superbowl WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of proportion for something so small (in my opinion) if you looked away for ONE sec you wouldnt of seen it like alot of people didnt.

I still cant get over how Justin just left her out to dry like that. Didnt once speak out for her or stood up for her and his role in the performance.

MTV and other sponsors involved wouldn't care if they didn't lose out financially. It's not like they have any morals

musicjunky318 said:

Where would she be?

By the time of th SB I wasn't to enthralled with Janet

I loved Control-Rhythm Nation-Janet Janet

I love Velvet Rope Janet too after these she seemed to just repeat herself

I was just listening to Diamonds featuring Janet back during her Control years

she was just hot then

Janet needs to do a rock album, she does that well

a combo of Would You Be Mine, Black Cat, If

Alot of Janet fans blame the Superbowl,but I think there were a few other problems.We saw the warning signs several years earlier.Janet wasn't really evolving as an artist,remaining focused on sex (in her songwriting and her image) and people simply got tired of it.She could have turned things around with a bold,challenging album that would take her into new territory,but she stuck with a predictable R&B sound.That did more damage to her career than the Superbowl ever did.

HAPPYPERSON said:

another thing, its crazy how Janet got so much heat from her malfunction When Madonna purposely flashed hers yesterday and didn't get any outrage

There is a topic on the Madonna thing already, don't create a totally different topic in this one please.

2nd Janet's issue was not at her show, it wasn't a Janet concert, it was the Superbowl, totally different thing.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

Just to add more fuel to the fire about the Superbowl controversy, it wasn't fair across the board. It certainly didn't hurt Justin Timberlake by a long shot. Another case of a gender and racial war or did it go haywire for Janet because she is a Jackson? I never thought about this until a couple years back, but we all know something else tumultuous was going on in Jackson ville....

Three things happened:

1.) It was a political year (hate those years since we're in one now lol).

2.) Michael had his court case developing then so this added more bad press to the family.

3.) Janet refused to apologize further than she did for it (I wished she hadn't apologized the first time).

Exactly! Janet was just a scapegoat. That whole superbowl incident was overblown & just an excuse to throw another Jackson in the fire. Also added that she was a black women. Madonna before her & Britney after her have done far worse things then flashing a boob & they let them slide.

I think Damita Jo would have been more successful. But Janet's music career took a big slump after that incident. Plus the music industry changed. Sadly it was after her brothers death that reignited Janet's career back to the forefront..But its something Janet has that other females artist don't. She is an accomplished actress & has several number 1 movies under her belt. Even Madonna or Britney can't claim that accomplishment. Only thing she doesn't have is a child...

LiLi1992 said:

I think it would be all about the way it is now.
In the U.S. ageism is very common.
Janet has never been very popular outside the U.S., let's be honest here.
If we look at Madonna, the peak of fame in the U.S. for her is long gone, the last really successful album in the United States - Music (2000), the last number 1 single, too, was 12 years ago. Her last two albums (Hard Candy and MDNA) have no big chances to ever reach platinum certification ... BUT Madonna has huge fan base outside the U.S., especially in Europe and Latin America (which is not and can not be at the Janet).
Female Artist after 40 years has very low chances to be very popular in the United States.

Very true. Janet isnt really that big in Europe, Africa, Latin America or Asia while Madonna is. I think that had Janet had another last name, perhaps she would have made it bigger but I think there's a thinking that Janet is just Michaels younger sister, in other parts of the world. She's pretty big in South Africa tho. I love her tho and remember as a kid buying the "all for you" album and just loving it lol... My experience is that Janets 80s work isnt very known in Europe, while her 90s stuff is very appreciated if you're a pop/rb lover.

[Edited 6/11/12 8:53am]

GoldDolphin said:

LiLi1992 said:

I think it would be all about the way it is now.
In the U.S. ageism is very common.
Janet has never been very popular outside the U.S., let's be honest here.
If we look at Madonna, the peak of fame in the U.S. for her is long gone, the last really successful album in the United States - Music (2000), the last number 1 single, too, was 12 years ago. Her last two albums (Hard Candy and MDNA) have no big chances to ever reach platinum certification ... BUT Madonna has huge fan base outside the U.S., especially in Europe and Latin America (which is not and can not be at the Janet).
Female Artist after 40 years has very low chances to be very popular in the United States.

Very true. Janet isnt really that big in Europe, Africa, Latin America or Asia while Madonna is. I think that had Janet had another last name, perhaps she would have made it bigger but I think there's a thinking that Janet is just Michaels younger sister, in other parts of the world. She's pretty big in South Africa tho. I love her tho and remember as a kid buying the "all for you" album and just loving it lol... My experience is that Janets 80s work isnt very known in Europe, while her 90s stuff is very appreciated if you're a pop/rb lover.

[Edited 6/11/12 8:53am]

She's always been popular in Japan. Her popularity in Europe was big during the Janet thru Velvet Rope years.

GoldDolphin said:

.I love her tho and remember as a kid buying the "all for you" album and just loving it lol... My experience is that Janets 80s work isnt very known in Europe, while her 90s stuff is very appreciated if you're a pop/rb lover.

[Edited 6/11/12 8:53am]

Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you bought All For You? I was a kid when that came out too. All For You was the first Janet song I've heard (or maybe Doesn't Really Matter) and I was hooked from there.

Timmy84 said:

There's a misconception that the Super Bowl was the #1 factor into her downfall - no it wasn't. It was Virgin Records mismanaging her albums' promotion post-Velvet Rope (the promotion of All for You was good in the beginninng then it fell apart later in the year of its release) and then of course that inevitable age problem.

THIS!^

here are two videos that highlights the ups and downs of her career

the ups

the downs

[Edited 6/11/12 16:59pm]

PrettyMan72 said:

GoldDolphin said:

Very true. Janet isnt really that big in Europe, Africa, Latin America or Asia while Madonna is. I think that had Janet had another last name, perhaps she would have made it bigger but I think there's a thinking that Janet is just Michaels younger sister, in other parts of the world. She's pretty big in South Africa tho. I love her tho and remember as a kid buying the "all for you" album and just loving it lol... My experience is that Janets 80s work isnt very known in Europe, while her 90s stuff is very appreciated if you're a pop/rb lover.

[Edited 6/11/12 8:53am]

She's always been popular in Japan. Her popularity in Europe was big during the Janet thru Velvet Rope years.

I cant talk about Japan, but in general people in Asia dont know who she is from my experience. All the Jacksons are famous in japan it seems, I know La Toya is pretty big there as well. (NOT COMPARING THE TWO) And yes that's what I said, she was big during the 90s for a while. I heard her music through my mom ^^...

NeonCraxx said:

GoldDolphin said:

.I love her tho and remember as a kid buying the "all for you" album and just loving it lol... My experience is that Janets 80s work isnt very known in Europe, while her 90s stuff is very appreciated if you're a pop/rb lover.

[Edited 6/11/12 8:53am]

Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you bought All For You? I was a kid when that came out too. All For You was the first Janet song I've heard (or maybe Doesn't Really Matter) and I was hooked from there.

And I was 9 ... The first Janet song i heard was probably "scream" or "velvet rope" my mom had her albums, but I remember clearly buying the All For You by myself lol

GoldDolphin said:

NeonCraxx said:

Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you bought All For You? I was a kid when that came out too. All For You was the first Janet song I've heard (or maybe Doesn't Really Matter) and I was hooked from there.

And I was 9 ... The first Janet song i heard was probably "scream" or "velvet rope" my mom had her albums, but I remember clearly buying the All For You by myself lol

You were two years older than me. I was hoping you said 6 or 7.

I got All For You as a gift and I jammed to the video mix. I didn't listen to the other albums because I was into Michael Jackson much more.

[Edited 6/12/12 6:44am]

These were the good years

my fav Janet playlist

Control 5:55

Go Deep [Masters @ Work Spiritual Flute Mix] 9:10

Got Till It's Gone edit 3:40

That's the Way Love Goes 4:25

You Can Be Mine 5:15

If 4:31

Black Cat 4:50

Throb (there are some hot remixes I have for this one)

Because of Love 4:20

Anytime, Anyplace 7:08

Everytime [Jam & Lewis Disco Remix] 4:16

Accept Me [B side] 4:07

Come back to me

Go Deep [Call Out Hook] 5:16

Diamonds (Herb Alpert song)

Rock With You 3:54

70's Love Grove 3:54

Lonely 5:01

My Need 3:44

Anything 4:54

Funny How Time Flies(When You're Having Fun) 4:29

Let's Wait Awhile 4:37

Love Will Never Do (Without You)

Making Love in the Rain

The Pleasure Principle (song) 4:58

Rhythm Nation

Twenty Foreplay

On & On [B side]

When I Think of You

The Knowledge 3:54

SoulAlive said:

Alot of Janet fans blame the Superbowl,but I think there were a few other problems.We saw the warning signs several years earlier.Janet wasn't really evolving as an artist,remaining focused on sex (in her songwriting and her image) and people simply got tired of it.She could have turned things around with a bold,challenging album that would take her into new territory,but she stuck with a predictable R&B sound.That did more damage to her career than the Superbowl ever did.

She really stuck with a predictable R&B sound from Damita Jo onward - so, her problems began right at the same time as the SB. The Velvet Rope was a critically acclaimed album and is considered by many to be her best. All For You was a fun, poppy post-divorce album and a necessary change of tone after Velvet Rope, so I don't think you can say the warning signs appeared "several years earlier". But Damita Jo was very much a re-tread of things she'd done before. Although this does not necessarily limit sales potential - Usher's basically been making the same album for over a decade without major issues.

The SB, as much as the music, played a big role in her decline in popularity, because pop stars of her stature need big promotional avenues to sell millions of records. Suddenly, she had no radio support, no touring opportunity (because no sponsor would have her) and a lack of backing from her label promotion-wise as well as artistically (Virgin was on the verge of folding and Damita Jo was re-sequenced entirely following the SB and we have no idea what the original album would have sounded like). Instead of fighting, she really just gave up, and the albums that followed are reflective of that apathy. Do I think the albums that followed would have been different if the SB had never happened? Absolutely. It was the biggest factor in her career decline, along with her age at the time. Women nearing 40 do not generally get significant radio support in the US, and Janet's days as a force were numbered anyway. It didn't help that her team focused so much in the early 2000's on the Top 40 format and essentially abandoned her Urban and Urban A/C base - two formats which are much less ageist and can give you a longer shelf-life if you cultivate them.

[Edited 6/12/12 17:04pm]

The only Janet album that I was disappointed with after The Superbowl was 20 yO. That album was not a good idea & was very unfocused. The art work & pics & fan appreciation(similar to TLC's FAnMail project) was the only good thing about it...But the songs we're very poor choices. Besides a few of them.I couldn't believe what i was hearing. Then the tour was scrapped for it also..It was horrid..

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

The only Janet album that I was disappointed with after The Superbowl was 20 yO. That album was not a good idea & was very unfocused. The art work & pics & fan appreciation(similar to TLC's FAnMail project) was the only good thing about it...But the songs we're very poor choices. Besides a few of them.I couldn't believe what i was hearing. Then the tour was scrapped for it also..It was horrid..

If someone in 2004 would have told me I would pick justin, nelly furtado and beyonce's albums over 20 YO in 2006 , I would have laughed in their faces I do agree it was terrible except for a few songs. For awhile I could listen to the whole thing, but it didn't last long at all, it lacked soul. I only like maybe 6 or 7 songs at most and the majority of the production is shit. She bounced back well with Discipline though, that and All For You are her best ones of the 00's

Oh and from what I remember on fan forums in the middle of the All For You era, things were starting to go downhill late 01'/02' for her even though she sold over 3 million according to soundscan (RIAA is still stuck at 2 million). There was a lot of backlash in the fan community for cancelling those European overseas dates, citing 9-11 as the reason, then adding on more North American dates as well as flying to Japan. Not disappointed since I managed to see her twice during the era, but I felt bad she had to lie if the real reason was low sales, although I personally think doing that killed her career in Europe. Then there was the backlash for working with the homophobic Beenie Man, and of course being too sexual like with Would You Mind I liked the album on and off during the era, going back to the older janet albums and playing michael more as well. I appreciate it now but thought it sounded too safe at the time despite some of the gems on it

[Edited 6/13/12 5:02am]

NeonCraxx said:

GoldDolphin said:

And I was 9 ... The first Janet song i heard was probably "scream" or "velvet rope" my mom had her albums, but I remember clearly buying the All For You by myself lol

You were two years older than me. I was hoping you said 6 or 7.

I got All For You as a gift and I jammed to the video mix. I didn't listen to the other albums because I was into Michael Jackson much more.

[Edited 6/12/12 6:44am]

Aww sorry to disapoint you lol That's awesome tho! Love Michael and I've always been into Michael too !

alphastreet said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

The only Janet album that I was disappointed with after The Superbowl was 20 yO. That album was not a good idea & was very unfocused. The art work & pics & fan appreciation(similar to TLC's FAnMail project) was the only good thing about it...But the songs we're very poor choices. Besides a few of them.I couldn't believe what i was hearing. Then the tour was scrapped for it also..It was horrid..

If someone in 2004 would have told me I would pick justin, nelly furtado and beyonce's albums over 20 YO in 2006 , I would have laughed in their faces I do agree it was terrible except for a few songs. For awhile I could listen to the whole thing, but it didn't last long at all, it lacked soul. I only like maybe 6 or 7 songs at most and the majority of the production is shit. She bounced back well with Discipline though, that and All For You are her best ones of the 00's

Oh and from what I remember on fan forums in the middle of the All For You era, things were starting to go downhill late 01'/02' for her even though she sold over 3 million according to soundscan (RIAA is still stuck at 2 million). There was a lot of backlash in the fan community for cancelling those European overseas dates, citing 9-11 as the reason, then adding on more North American dates as well as flying to Japan. Not disappointed since I managed to see her twice during the era, but I felt bad she had to lie if the real reason was low sales, although I personally think doing that killed her career in Europe. Then there was the backlash for working with the homophobic Beenie Man, and of course being too sexual like with Would You Mind I liked the album on and off during the era, going back to the older janet albums and playing michael more as well. I appreciate it now but thought it sounded too safe at the time despite some of the gems on it

[Edited 6/13/12 5:02am]

Yea! Janet has been criticized for cancelling tour dates in the last 10 years. The last one was on the "Rock wit U" tour supporting "Discipline" Which is actually my favorite tour by her. Because she really did it for her fans & I love her for that. But saying she had vertigo to get out of that tour. Because it wasn't selling out. I'm sorry to say was a lie. I don't believe her.But I excused her for it. Because I was able to catch her LA dates of it. Plus she made it up when she launched her successful Up Close & personal tour last year.

Also the Beenie Man incident. Janet honestly didn't know he was homophobic & made those remarks. She later apologized & cleared it up & said she would have NEVER did that duet with him if she knew..

VoicesCarry said:

SoulAlive said:

Alot of Janet fans blame the Superbowl,but I think there were a few other problems.We saw the warning signs several years earlier.Janet wasn't really evolving as an artist,remaining focused on sex (in her songwriting and her image) and people simply got tired of it.She could have turned things around with a bold,challenging album that would take her into new territory,but she stuck with a predictable R&B sound.That did more damage to her career than the Superbowl ever did.

She really stuck with a predictable R&B sound from Damita Jo onward - so, her problems began right at the same time as the SB. The Velvet Rope was a critically acclaimed album and is considered by many to be her best. All For You was a fun, poppy post-divorce album and a necessary change of tone after Velvet Rope, so I don't think you can say the warning signs appeared "several years earlier". But Damita Jo was very much a re-tread of things she'd done before. Although this does not necessarily limit sales potential - Usher's basically been making the same album for over a decade without major issues.

The SB, as much as the music, played a big role in her decline in popularity, because pop stars of her stature need big promotional avenues to sell millions of records. Suddenly, she had no radio support, no touring opportunity (because no sponsor would have her) and a lack of backing from her label promotion-wise as well as artistically (Virgin was on the verge of folding and Damita Jo was re-sequenced entirely following the SB and we have no idea what the original album would have sounded like). Instead of fighting, she really just gave up, and the albums that followed are reflective of that apathy. Do I think the albums that followed would have been different if the SB had never happened? Absolutely. It was the biggest factor in her career decline, along with her age at the time. Women nearing 40 do not generally get significant radio support in the US, and Janet's days as a force were numbered anyway. It didn't help that her team focused so much in the early 2000's on the Top 40 format and essentially abandoned her Urban and Urban A/C base - two formats which are much less ageist and can give you a longer shelf-life if you cultivate them.

[Edited 6/12/12 17:04pm]

I agree with just about everything you said VC....Here's a glimpse into where Damita Jo was originally headed before the fiasco:

http://www.mtv.com/news/a...-yet.jhtml

Janet Jackson Making Sexiest Album Yet, Producer Says

Dallas Austin makes comparison to Prince's Dirty Mind.

By Joseph Patel

Janet Jackson knows sexy — from her topless Rolling Stone cover to videos like the Herb Ritts-directed "Love Will Never Do (Without You)" — but producer Dallas Austin promises her new album is "easily the most sexy thing she's done."

"Guys won't know what to do with themselves after this," he said, laughing at the prospect. "It's one of the best records she's made."

Austin said he's produced five songs with Janet already, having worked with her over the last few months at his DARP Studios in Atlanta. Janet's still-untitled album is due March 30, according to a spokesperson for her label. Austin said he and Janet will record for another month before deciding which songs make the final cut. Janet is also working with longtime executive producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

The overriding theme of Austin's collaborations with Janet is her bubbling sexuality. "To me, this is her Dirty Mind," Austin explained, referring to the Prince album that established him as a hormonally charged pop star. "It's a really sexy record, but not in a sensual way. It's bold, it's fun, it's really positive. Nobody's sad, nobody's mad. It's just really fun songs where she happens to be talking frankly about sex."

Austin said the direction came from the energy she gave off from her when they first started working together. "She always shows what's going on with her life through her records, reveals the phase she's in with her life and brings out that experience," he said.

Early on in the recording process last May, producer 7 Aurelius said he and Jackson had crafted some "cutting edge, hard-hitting dance music" for the LP, and he predicted fans would be surprised by the final product (see "Janet Jackson Recording ...or New LP").

Austin, meanwhile, has also been spending time working with another alluring talent — Gwen Stefani. The bulk of the songs they've worked on were finished before the holidays, he said.

"They're both the easiest artists to work with, [Janet] and Gwen," Austin said. "With both their albums, it's the most creative vibe I've had in a long time. You'd think because of their status they're going to be spoiled stars, but it's not like that. They're open to anything you put in front of them, and that's so important because as a songwriter and producer it leaves you free to do what you do best."