aardvark15 said:

I'm really glad for her but it's ashame how big of an accomplishment this is now.

Yea I know back in the 90s people were shooting out 10 million like it was nothing and that was considered to be weak. But I think in this case its amazing being that Adele really didnt have any MAJOR promotion. I think after people started buying it thats when she started getting some promotion.

Sales have always been bumpy. The '90s and early millennium records gave the illusion that everyone was doing it like that. If the promotion isn't there and your label don't support you, no sales. That's why Adele's doing well, really.

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Great point. I'm sure most of our collections aren't solely #1 albums or multi-platinum.

There are people who collect every chart topper but I doubt that's their entire collection.

Timmy84 said:

Sales have always been bumpy. The '90s and early millennium records gave the illusion that everyone was doing it like that. If the promotion isn't there and your label don't support you, no sales. That's why Adele's doing well, really.

promotion is cetainly important, but it only gets you so far (and it gets pushed to it's extremes), the quality of the music is why Adele is selling so well. I didn't hear or see any promotion, I just heard a bit of the album one time and immediately bought it off of iTunes and I never buy new music anymore. Until I bought 21, it had been a full 5 years since the last time I bought anything at all that wasn't somehow related to Prince or the Bee Gees. I had been waiting for something to shake up the industry and be interesting again. Upon first listen I thought 21 might just be it. No hype needed.

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Yup. And though Stevie's "Songs" sold ten million, it was sold as a double album, which mean it only sold five million copies. Marvin's best-selling works were around two, three million. So were the Isley Brothers. I don't think Billie's albums ever got over a million.

alandail said:

Timmy84 said:

Sales have always been bumpy. The '90s and early millennium records gave the illusion that everyone was doing it like that. If the promotion isn't there and your label don't support you, no sales. That's why Adele's doing well, really.

promotion is cetainly important, but it only gets you so far (and it gets pushed to it's extremes), the quality of the music is why Adele is selling so well. I didn't hear or see any promotion, I just heard a bit of the album one time and immediately bought it off of iTunes and I never buy new music anymore. Until I bought 21, it had been a full 5 years since the last time I bought anything at all that wasn't somehow related to Prince or the Bee Gees. I had been waiting for something to shake up the industry and be interesting again. Upon first listen I thought 21 might just be it. No hype needed.

Good Points.

Acts like Beyonce and Rihanna got ALOT ALOT more promotion and Adele and they didnt even sell a million copies??? Im sure now they have but it was really slow getting there with the amount of promotion they had they should have sold the same as Adele. Adeles voice and MUSIC is why she is selling and by default because of this massive success has turned her into a pop star but her music isnt "pop".

SUPRMAN said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Great point. I'm sure most of our collections aren't solely #1 albums or multi-platinum.

There are people who collect every chart topper but I doubt that's their entire collection.

Exactly. Most of the time its the stuff that nobody knows about that's the true gems. These last two years I've been heavily into old funk and R&B bands and I have to say there are some badass songs that flew under the radar. Music is truly a gift. So much great stuff out there just waiting to be discovered.

alandail said:

Timmy84 said:

Sales have always been bumpy. The '90s and early millennium records gave the illusion that everyone was doing it like that. If the promotion isn't there and your label don't support you, no sales. That's why Adele's doing well, really.

promotion is cetainly important, but it only gets you so far (and it gets pushed to it's extremes), the quality of the music is why Adele is selling so well. I didn't hear or see any promotion, I just heard a bit of the album one time and immediately bought it off of iTunes and I never buy new music anymore. Until I bought 21, it had been a full 5 years since the last time I bought anything at all that wasn't somehow related to Prince or the Bee Gees. I had been waiting for something to shake up the industry and be interesting again. Upon first listen I thought 21 might just be it. No hype needed.

That's true.

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Yup. And though Stevie's "Songs" sold ten million, it was sold as a double album, which mean it only sold five million copies. Marvin's best-selling works were around two, three million. So were the Isley Brothers. I don't think Billie's albums ever got over a million.

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Yup. And though Stevie's "Songs" sold ten million, it was sold as a double album, which mean it only sold five million copies. Marvin's best-selling works were around two, three million. So were the Isley Brothers. I don't think Billie's albums ever got over a million.

Thats not the point though.

We get that those artists were not pop stars and the industry was completely different back then, then how it is now which is why I am not sure why they are always being compared. Some similiar things but alot of differences.

While Adele might be a pop star now, the fact is Adele wasnt either and still wasnt when 21 first came out. When 21 first came out it didnt get pop star promotion but instead was marketed the old fashion way. Her music is why the album has done so well. Her looks, videos, gimmicks, major tour, record label, did not make this album become big.

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

And country. Garth & Shania pretty much owned the 90s. I don't even wanna get into it.

Twain still holds the record for the biggest female album of all time.

musicjunky318 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

And country. Garth & Shania pretty much owned the 90s. I don't even wanna get into it.

Twain still holds the record for the biggest female album of all time.

Shania's got the pop crossover hits to explain why she sold more than usual as a country artist.

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

And country. Garth & Shania pretty much owned the 90s. I don't even wanna get into it.

Twain still holds the record for the biggest female album of all time.

Shania's got the pop crossover hits to explain why she sold more than usual as a country artist.

I was 8 while it was going on. I've always wondered did she receive backlash in Nashville at all? I'm sure she did.

There was really no country-female that received "big" sales before her arrival. The country-pop crossover has been well-executed in recent years from many that followed her. Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, etc.

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Shania's got the pop crossover hits to explain why she sold more than usual as a country artist.

I was 8 while it was going on. I've always wondered did she receive backlash in Nashville at all? I'm sure she did.

There was really no country-female that received "big" sales before her arrival. The country-pop crossover has been well-executed in recent years from many that followed her. Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, etc.

Yeah Nashville let it be known they didn't like what Shania was doing.

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder

Bet their catalog sales have up there. Let me go see what I can find.

This site is only counting Soundscan era figures.

http://images.businesswee...ales/9.htm

Marvin Gaye

Date of Death: Apr. 1, 1984
Age: 44
Cause of death: Homicide
Album sales (since 1991): 13.1 million
Highest-charting album (post death): No. 41 - 1985, Dream of a Lifetime

Marvin Gaye, a rare musician who had major chart success into middle-age, was shot and killed by his father as his career was getting a second wind. Gaye's Sexual Healing from 1982'sMidnight Love album was an international hit, and he was recording new music at the time he was murdered. Gaye, who spent most of his career at Motown Records, scored earlier hits withI Heard it Through the Grapevine, What's Going On, and Let's Get It On.

Between 84-91 he certainly would have sold more.

This is from an earlier Prince thread by Timmy http://prince.org/msg/8/250871

In spite of having stood out as the best-selling artist in Motown's history (probably before or after Stevie Wonder), not many of Marvin's 1960s and 1970s albums have been given RIAA certifications however:

*What's Going On reportedly sold over 2.5 million albums during its release (it's certified Gold probably by a re-release)
*Let's Get It On sold over 3-4 million albums.
*Marvin's "Live at the London Palladium" sold over two million copies and was actually credited for being one of the top ten best-selling albums of the year for 1977!
*Marvin's 1982 album, "Midnight Love" is Marvin's biggest-seller selling over three million copies in America and an additional six million worldwide.

Here are Marvin's gold and platinum citations:
*What's Going On (1971) (Gold)
*Marvin Gaye's Greatest Hits (1976) (Platinum)
*Midnight Love (1982) (3X Platinum)
*Every Great Motown Hit of Marvin Gaye (1983) (Platinum)
*The Very Best of Marvin Gaye (2002) (Gold)

But I think if you add the real sales of "What's Going On", "Trouble Man", "Let's Get It On", "Marvin Gaye Live!", "I Want You" and "Live at the London Palladium" alongside probably "Together", "M.P.G.", "In the Groove" and other albums that charted well on both sides could get gold or platinum citations too. I'm still shitty about Motown not being able to audit RIAA sales for Motown artists in the '60s and '70s. Maybe after Berry Gordy's death, we'll see them being certified.

But I think Marvin remains the best-selling Motown artist based on singles sales, I think.

mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

Yup. And though Stevie's "Songs" sold ten million, it was sold as a double album, which mean it only sold five million copies. Marvin's best-selling works were around two, three million. So were the Isley Brothers. I don't think Billie's albums ever got over a million.

Thats not the point though.

We get that those artists were not pop stars and the industry was completely different back then, then how it is now which is why I am not sure why they are always being compared. Some similiar things but alot of differences.

While Adele might be a pop star now, the fact is Adele wasnt either and still wasnt when 21 first came out. When 21 first came out it didnt get pop star promotion but instead was marketed the old fashion way. Her music is why the album has done so well. Her looks, videos, gimmicks, major tour, record label, did not make this album become big.

Imma be nice.

SUPRMAN said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, big record sales have always been kind of a pop music thing. I look at it this way: Icons like Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Isley Brothers, Billie Holiday, etc never had gaudy album sales.

Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder

Bet their catalog sales have up there. Let me go see what I can find.

This site is only counting Soundscan era figures.

http://images.businesswee...ales/9.htm

Marvin Gaye

Date of Death: Apr. 1, 1984
Age: 44
Cause of death: Homicide
Album sales (since 1991): 13.1 million
Highest-charting album (post death): No. 41 - 1985, Dream of a Lifetime

Marvin Gaye, a rare musician who had major chart success into middle-age, was shot and killed by his father as his career was getting a second wind. Gaye's Sexual Healing from 1982'sMidnight Love album was an international hit, and he was recording new music at the time he was murdered. Gaye, who spent most of his career at Motown Records, scored earlier hits withI Heard it Through the Grapevine, What's Going On, and Let's Get It On.

Between 84-91 he certainly would have sold more.

This is from an earlier Prince thread by Timmy http://prince.org/msg/8/250871

In spite of having stood out as the best-selling artist in Motown's history (probably before or after Stevie Wonder), not many of Marvin's 1960s and 1970s albums have been given RIAA certifications however:

*What's Going On reportedly sold over 2.5 million albums during its release (it's certified Gold probably by a re-release)
*Let's Get It On sold over 3-4 million albums.
*Marvin's "Live at the London Palladium" sold over two million copies and was actually credited for being one of the top ten best-selling albums of the year for 1977!
*Marvin's 1982 album, "Midnight Love" is Marvin's biggest-seller selling over three million copies in America and an additional six million worldwide.

Here are Marvin's gold and platinum citations:
*What's Going On (1971) (Gold)
*Marvin Gaye's Greatest Hits (1976) (Platinum)
*Midnight Love (1982) (3X Platinum)
*Every Great Motown Hit of Marvin Gaye (1983) (Platinum)
*The Very Best of Marvin Gaye (2002) (Gold)

But I think if you add the real sales of "What's Going On", "Trouble Man", "Let's Get It On", "Marvin Gaye Live!", "I Want You" and "Live at the London Palladium" alongside probably "Together", "M.P.G.", "In the Groove" and other albums that charted well on both sides could get gold or platinum citations too. I'm still shitty about Motown not being able to audit RIAA sales for Motown artists in the '60s and '70s. Maybe after Berry Gordy's death, we'll see them being certified.

But I think Marvin remains the best-selling Motown artist based on singles sales, I think.

I blame Berry Gordy. A lot of the Motown records were gold/platinum but were not certified. All of Marvin's albums from "In the Groove" through were best sellers, including two of his Tammi Terrell duet albums. It's quite injustice that his other records like "Trouble Man", "Marvin Gaye Live!" and such haven't been certified while other albums that were certified have been undercertified. For example I know his hits sets have done more than one, two million tops or maybe three million. Motown also messed up with Stevie Wonder's. Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions, Fulfillingness, etc., have not been certified at all I don't think.

Marvin's definitely the best-selling singles artist in Motown's history to this day. "Grapevine" did like four million.

Honestly think people should just be happy with a gold or platinum album... i mean that is a big deal. It's a weird standard in the industry... if certain genres or acts go platinum like say a metal band with no hot 100 hits or a jazz artists with no hot 100 hits. If they sell 500,000 or a million it's seen as a huge triumph & accomplishment. But if your making top 40 hits or number 1 hits it's a bomb if you don't get all those platinum awards and other awards etc. It's a weird double standard..

And just cause you make huge hits doesn't guarantee huge album sales, i read LMFAO has barely gone gold and they have 2 of the most over played singles of 2011 & 2012 , and probably the queen of this is ole Katy. All those number 1 hits & a reissue and she can't even go over double platinum

Gunsnhalen said:

Honestly think people should just be happy with a gold or platinum album... i mean that is a big deal. It's a weird standard in the industry... if certain genres or acts go platinum like say a metal band with no hot 100 hits or a jazz artists with no hot 100 hits. If they sell 500,000 or a million it's seen as a huge triumph & accomplishment. But if your making top 40 hits or number 1 hits it's a bomb if you don't get all those platinum awards and other awards etc. It's a weird double standard..

And just cause you make huge hits doesn't guarantee huge album sales, i read LMFAO has barely gone gold and they have 2 of the most over played singles of 2011 & 2012 , and probably the queen of this is ole Katy. All those number 1 hits & a reissue and she can't even go over double platinum

It's likely the consumers have a presumption that whatever Katy and LMFAO put out, everything else is filler so they barely buy the albums making them singles acts whereas others rely more on albums and you see the response to those. That has always been that way. The Beatles and the like spoiled it for everyone else.

Prince has had two platinum albums & two gold albums & haven't had a top charting single since 1994. If U have a loyal following & known for delivering good music. It doesn't matter having 5 or 6 chart topping singles from one album anymore to get sales. Usher is the last RnB act to accomplish that from one RnB album....Sales & multiple hit singles...

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Honestly think people should just be happy with a gold or platinum album... i mean that is a big deal. It's a weird standard in the industry... if certain genres or acts go platinum like say a metal band with no hot 100 hits or a jazz artists with no hot 100 hits. If they sell 500,000 or a million it's seen as a huge triumph & accomplishment. But if your making top 40 hits or number 1 hits it's a bomb if you don't get all those platinum awards and other awards etc. It's a weird double standard..

And just cause you make huge hits doesn't guarantee huge album sales, i read LMFAO has barely gone gold and they have 2 of the most over played singles of 2011 & 2012 , and probably the queen of this is ole Katy. All those number 1 hits & a reissue and she can't even go over double platinum

It's likely the consumers have a presumption that whatever Katy and LMFAO put out, everything else is filler so they barely buy the albums making them singles acts whereas others rely more on albums and you see the response to those. That has always been that way. The Beatles and the like spoiled it for everyone else.

Makes sense!, i think that is probably one of the biggest thing's is they put on all these tracks on these damna lbums

Think of like George Michaels Faith, Purple Rain, The Stranger by Billy Joel etc. All those albums are some of the best selling of all time. And only 9 tracks short, sweet & to the point. Now there is like 13, 14, 15 tracks & bonus tracks

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Prince has had two platinum albums & two gold albums & haven't had a top charting single since 1994. If U have a loyal following & known for delivering good music. It doesn't matter having 5 or 6 chart topping singles from one album anymore to get sales. Usher is the last RnB act to accomplish that from one RnB album....Sales & multiple hit singles...

For once i can agree with on something......

This is true, this is why acts like Sade & Metallica. Who aren't making bit hits, but can still always get number 1 albums succeed. Loyal fan base, that of ocurse applies for prince as you mentioned

tritoncin said:

I'd like to say and dream that MUSIC is going back to basics... I mean, MUSIC.

But I guess this is just an exception... And I'm glad for this exception.

A fresh breeze of something Real, made with Quality, Class, Heart, Soul and something the music has lacked since the last century in last new generation of people (so called artists ...?): Talent.

Thanx Adele, for an Album without which started with no any flamboyant videos, promises, marketing and tits.

An album that speaks for itself.

Amen!

SUPRMAN said:

lastdecember said:

Well its hard to say, its all how she responds to it, regardless of what it sells obviously a label will want a duplicate, but reality has to come into play and thats just not gonna happen, even if its better record. The hype on 21 is similar to what Norah Jones had in 2002, though Norah was more low key and it was a debut record, it was on that level just a little more expectation from adele. However she isnt the type of performer that needs that acclaim, she can do what she wants, Norah Jones is another who has constantly done what she likes and doesnt really care about selling because she knows "come away with me " was a fluke. But on Purple Rain i dont think Prince had expectation, true money was spent, but the media was way different then. Going into Purple Rain he was barely a known name and had really just crossed over somewhat, 1999 was a big album, but for those times its sales were nothing insane, today an selling 2-3 million would be like snow in july.

If I recall, before it was released, Prince told Wendy she should buy a house as they were about to be rich. Prince certainly expected big things from Purple Rain. Hear how he gloats in 'MovieStar?'

Prince's expectations are much different than a label, as said on the 25th anniversary of Purple Rain, no one took Prince seriously with this, and though a company was behind Prince for the movie, Prince was not a star yet by any means, i mean his first four albums were under the radar, their sales didnt happen till after Purple Rain, 1999 broke him, or should i say MTV broke him in, and then he let the talent do the guiding and luckily back then you had labels that would take chances. But no one expected Prince to sell what he sold and have Purple Rain take in 80million at the box office.

Gunsnhalen said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Prince has had two platinum albums & two gold albums & haven't had a top charting single since 1994. If U have a loyal following & known for delivering good music. It doesn't matter having 5 or 6 chart topping singles from one album anymore to get sales. Usher is the last RnB act to accomplish that from one RnB album....Sales & multiple hit singles...

For once i can agree with on something......

This is true, this is why acts like Sade & Metallica. Who aren't making bit hits, but can still always get number 1 albums succeed. Loyal fan base, that of ocurse applies for prince as you mentioned

I mean look at Bon Jovi and even U2, touring giants, cant be touched still top album charts and sell gold to platnum in the states, but Jovi hasnt had a crossover hit since really "its my life" and even that wasnt that big, and U2, well, single wise nothing since 2000 has been major. As yes PRINCE as was said on the documentary special on him, he out draws major artists on tour, and yet he hasnt had a hit since 1994.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

It's likely the consumers have a presumption that whatever Katy and LMFAO put out, everything else is filler so they barely buy the albums making them singles acts whereas others rely more on albums and you see the response to those. That has always been that way. The Beatles and the like spoiled it for everyone else.

Makes sense!, i think that is probably one of the biggest thing's is they put on all these tracks on these damna lbums

Think of like George Michaels Faith, Purple Rain, The Stranger by Billy Joel etc. All those albums are some of the best selling of all time. And only 9 tracks short, sweet & to the point. Now there is like 13, 14, 15 tracks & bonus tracks

Right.

lastdecember said:

Gunsnhalen said:

For once i can agree with on something......

This is true, this is why acts like Sade & Metallica. Who aren't making bit hits, but can still always get number 1 albums succeed. Loyal fan base, that of ocurse applies for prince as you mentioned

I mean look at Bon Jovi and even U2, touring giants, cant be touched still top album charts and sell gold to platnum in the states, but Jovi hasnt had a crossover hit since really "its my life" and even that wasnt that big, and U2, well, single wise nothing since 2000 has been major. As yes PRINCE as was said on the documentary special on him, he out draws major artists on tour, and yet he hasnt had a hit since 1994.

Well Jovi also passed the country thing & had htis there... and country fans are rabid

As for U2, Vertigo was a big hit, i heard it a few times a day on the radio especially the rock station i got so tired of it & it was my least fav on that album hahaha.

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Makes sense!, i think that is probably one of the biggest thing's is they put on all these tracks on these damna lbums

Think of like George Michaels Faith, Purple Rain, The Stranger by Billy Joel etc. All those albums are some of the best selling of all time. And only 9 tracks short, sweet & to the point. Now there is like 13, 14, 15 tracks & bonus tracks

Right.

well the enormous track count was a 90's thing! and to me thats when "great albums" were lost, labels instead of dropping prices, figured they would give in and make artists fill up albums with 80 minutes of music, which is twice as much music needed. To me this is why you dont have perfect records in the 90's everytime someone makes a list of 90's albums they exlclude a few tracks as filler. Also if you look at the albums mentioned, the stranger, purple rain, faith etc...they also had a ton of singles and SOLD, look at Billy Joel's an innocent man, 6 singles in the top 40 sold millions of albums, stayed on the charts longer than any of his records, nowadays Katy Perry has 43 singles on one album and you never hear the album called a "great album" and it doesnt sell.

WaterInYourBath said:

That many people can relate to this woman? She's not even entertaining. Totally ridiculous.

Agreed. Yawn city.