CynicKill said:

Timmy84 said:

Kurt was more of a feminist than Courtney. In fact he all but admitted he was one. I'm inclined to believe that he influenced her style though, I thought it was obvious though.

But the differences were enough to question. There were ongoing references to babies, milk, female protagonists in particular and a direct reference to a Vanity Fair writer(something in particular I felt Kurt never would've done at the time). Kurts stuff felt maddeningly abstract yet strangely relateable. In other words, her references felt more direct.

I see what you mean.

Gunsnhalen said:

Also, i have never heard Dave say much about her. Especially as of recent, But Courtney is CONSTANTLY bringing his ass up. She sounds like the obsessed

I totally agree. I think maybe she tried to hit on him way back when and he turned her down.

"submissive drummer position" get the fuck outta here! Dave is one of the baddest drummers ever, I hardly think he sees it like that. And since when is a fucking drummer submissive?

NDRU said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Also, i have never heard Dave say much about her. Especially as of recent, But Courtney is CONSTANTLY bringing his ass up. She sounds like the obsessed

I totally agree. I think maybe she tried to hit on him way back when and he turned her down.

"submissive drummer position" get the fuck outta here! Dave is one of the baddest drummers ever, I hardly think he sees it like that. And since when is a fucking drummer submissive?

Right. You can't be submissive and be a drummer, that's nonsense.

CynicKill said:

"Live Through This" is definitely Top 5 of the 90's good.

"Celebrity Skin" was her "big" album and though it falls short of a classic, it's exceptional.

1) Nevermind

2) Miseducation of Lauryn Hill

3) Live Through This

4) In Utero

5) I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got

It is a good album, but I am pretty sure she had a ghost writer

CynicKill said:

I always admired the lyrical content on "Live Through This". It was modern feminist, difficult, and felt poetic. There's the long standing rumors that Kurt Cobain was responsible for the content which I always rejected. But now in hindsight I'm not so sure. I mean he might've influenced her writing a lot more then she's willing to admit.

I like Celebrity Skin, but to me the artistic differences between the two albums are like night and day.

She tried with Nobody's Daughter but by that time her voice was shot and it felt like she'd stayed away too long.

Ah, I think I understand a bit better now. For me lyrics are mostly meaningless and I tend to ignore them, if I like the music that's usually enough for me. If the lyrics are really bad sometimes that bugs me but that's pretty rare. The bar for lyrics in popular music is set very low.

I'll have to dig out my copy of Live Through This and try to pay particular attention to the words.

Courtney Michelle Harrison was born in 1964 in San Francisco, California, to Linda Carroll, a psychotherapist, and Hank Harrison, a publisher who had some association with the Grateful Dead; at five years old, Love was included in a group picture on the back of the band's third album, Aoxomoxoa (1969).^[14][15][16] Her parents divorced in 1969, with custody being awarded to Carroll after a child custody hearing during which she alleged that Harrison had fed LSD to Love when she was four years old, an allegation which he denied.^[17] Carroll then remarried, eventually giving birth to two more daughters and adopting a son.^[18] Love moved with her family to Marcola, Oregon in 1970. In 1972, Carroll relocated to New Zealand with her family, but sent Love back to the United States after she was kicked out of her boarding school.

People will say some crazy shit when they are looking to get custody of their kids, but... hmmnnn.

NDRU said:

CynicKill said:

"Live Through This" is definitely Top 5 of the 90's good.

"Celebrity Skin" was her "big" album and though it falls short of a classic, it's exceptional.

1) Nevermind

2) Miseducation of Lauryn Hill

3) Live Through This

4) In Utero

5) I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got

It is a good album, but I am pretty sure she had a ghost writer

Other than a cover song all of the songs are credited as being written by Hole with Kat Bjelland of Babes in Toyland given co-writing credit on one song. I think that Courtney probably wrote most of the lyrics and Hole guitarist Eric Erlandson probably wrote most of the music.

Of course it is impossible for me to know for certain but it seems entirely plausible that Courtney was the primary lyricist on the album. With a few exceptions Courtneys songs always credit at least one other person.

rialb said:

NDRU said:

It is a good album, but I am pretty sure she had a ghost writer

Other than a cover song all of the songs are credited as being written by Hole with Kat Bjelland of Babes in Toyland given co-writing credit on one song. I think that Courtney probably wrote most of the lyrics and Hole guitarist Eric Erlandson probably wrote most of the music.

Of course it is impossible for me to know for certain but it seems entirely plausible that Courtney was the primary lyricist on the album. With a few exceptions Courtneys songs always credit at least one other person.

It's definitely Courtney, it has all the hallmarks of her style. She did not have a ghostwriter, listen to the first Hole album "Pretty On The Inside" and you can hear the beginnings of Courtney's songwriting style and how "Live Through This" is the progression of that, similar to what you can hear with Kurt's songwriting style from "Bleach" to "Nevermind".

I believe Kurt co-wrote "Asking For It" but aside from that it's all Courtney and Eric.

Militant said:

It's definitely Courtney, it has all the hallmarks of her style. She did not have a ghostwriter, listen to the first Hole album "Pretty On The Inside" and you can hear the beginnings of Courtney's songwriting style and how "Live Through This" is the progression of that, similar to what you can hear with Kurt's songwriting style from "Bleach" to "Nevermind".

I believe Kurt co-wrote "Asking For It" but aside from that it's all Courtney and Eric.

i have to agree here. though im not much a fan. i believe those allegations are based on sexism and little else. also everret true wrote about this stuff in his nirvana book. for what its worth i believe him- he was there and knew them. the thing for me is that hole were never as good as people always said to me so all that shit about hole being able to replace nirvana at lola. etc- just bullshit!! and courtney is way past her prime as a writer and singer-she was never a musician.

the foo fighters have bored me since the 2000's but im glad that grohl has continued on being productive and has enjoyed his own success. i have never doubted that she is jealous of his continued success- she's such a fame whore and money monger. and the foo fighters have been more successful commercial than nirvana was. its safe to say that grohl has made his fortune on the foos not nirvana.

courtney has done little musically and nothing really film wise, since the funeral, except make allegations towards people and date married men. and before you say yes the larry flint thing was fine but one film doesnt really make a career- like one record doesn't. it means those examples were flukes nothing more.

wavesofbliss said:

the larry flint thing was fine but one film doesnt really make a career- like one record doesn't. it means those examples were flukes nothing more.

Actually, Courtney was BRILLIANT in "Man On The Moon" directed by Milos Forman and starring Jim Carrey, it's the life story of comedian Andy Kaufman and Courtney played his girlfriend Lynne Margulies, she was utterly phenomenal.

Also, she was in a movie called "Trapped" with Charlize Theron, Kevin Bacon and Dakota Fanning, back in 2002 and she was brilliant in that too.

There's an indie movie she did with Mischa Barton called "Julie Johnson" that is supposed to be good, she won an award for that too so I'm guessing she was great in it.

As for "little musically", what are you smoking? Live Through This, Celebrity Skin and Nobody's Daughter are all incredible albums, and though America's Sweetheart is patchy, it has it's moments of brilliance also.

wavesofbliss said:

the foo fighters have bored me since the 2000's but im glad that grohl has continued on being productive and has enjoyed his own success. i have never doubted that she is jealous of his continued success- she's such a fame whore and money monger. and the foo fighters have been more successful commercial than nirvana was. its safe to say that grohl has made his fortune on the foos not nirvana.

Source? I'm guessing that Nevermind probably sold more than all of the Foo Fighters albums combined.

rialb said:

NDRU said:

It is a good album, but I am pretty sure she had a ghost writer

Other than a cover song all of the songs are credited as being written by Hole with Kat Bjelland of Babes in Toyland given co-writing credit on one song. I think that Courtney probably wrote most of the lyrics and Hole guitarist Eric Erlandson probably wrote most of the music.

Of course it is impossible for me to know for certain but it seems entirely plausible that Courtney was the primary lyricist on the album. With a few exceptions Courtneys songs always credit at least one other person.

well, if you're saying she only wrote the lyrics, then I guess I could agree with that.

I do think some of the songs sound suspiciously like Kurt, but that doesn't mean he actually wrote them.

I still think that Live Through This being a great album doesn't necessarily reflect on her talent.

rialb said:

wavesofbliss said:

the foo fighters have bored me since the 2000's but im glad that grohl has continued on being productive and has enjoyed his own success. i have never doubted that she is jealous of his continued success- she's such a fame whore and money monger. and the foo fighters have been more successful commercial than nirvana was. its safe to say that grohl has made his fortune on the foos not nirvana.

Source? I'm guessing that Nevermind probably sold more than all of the Foo Fighters albums combined.

It did. None of the Foo Fighters' albums ever topped its success.

NDRU said:

rialb said:

Other than a cover song all of the songs are credited as being written by Hole with Kat Bjelland of Babes in Toyland given co-writing credit on one song. I think that Courtney probably wrote most of the lyrics and Hole guitarist Eric Erlandson probably wrote most of the music.

Of course it is impossible for me to know for certain but it seems entirely plausible that Courtney was the primary lyricist on the album. With a few exceptions Courtneys songs always credit at least one other person.

well, if you're saying she only wrote the lyrics, then I guess I could agree with that.

I do think some of the songs sound suspiciously like Kurt, but that doesn't mean he actually wrote them.

I still think that Live Through This being a great album doesn't necessarily reflect on her talent.

I do believe she wrote lyrics but Kurt/Nirvana was an influence.

rialb said:

wavesofbliss said:

the foo fighters have bored me since the 2000's but im glad that grohl has continued on being productive and has enjoyed his own success. i have never doubted that she is jealous of his continued success- she's such a fame whore and money monger. and the foo fighters have been more successful commercial than nirvana was. its safe to say that grohl has made his fortune on the foos not nirvana.

Source? I'm guessing that Nevermind probably sold more than all of the Foo Fighters albums combined.

True, but the Foo Fighters have been active and touring for over 15 years.

I definitely venture to say that Dave as songwriter for Foos has made more money with them than he did as the drummer for Nirvana.

I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

NDRU said:

rialb said:

Source? I'm guessing that Nevermind probably sold more than all of the Foo Fighters albums combined.

True, but the Foo Fighters have been active and touring for over 15 years.

I definitely venture to say that Dave as songwriter for Foos has made more money with them than he did as the drummer for Nirvana.

I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

You're probably not wrong.

As an aside but just as important imo..even though Im not a Foo cocksucker, I like what they have done over the decade and a half regarding rock without all the pretentious-ness of fucking Nirvana. "That fuckin Kurt Cobian"-Mickey Rourke/The Wrestler

<--puts on Ratt and Foo Fighters

Her main problem is that she's not a self starter at all, so she has to rely heavily on who's around her, which is why Live Through This sounds the way it does and same with Celebrity Skin.

As for her acting there was a promising career there that she pissed away. As she joked once she practically won an oscar for Larry Flint, and was good in Trapped. She's so good that she probably would have an Oscar by now if she had straightened up.

She started tripping again when Nobody's Daughter came out and Linda Perry removed herself from the project and Billy Corgan broke up their friendship. Then the voice thing and oh boy...

CynicKill said:

. Then the voice thing and oh boy...

@ "and oh boy"

but what voice thing?

rdhull said:

NDRU said:

True, but the Foo Fighters have been active and touring for over 15 years.

I definitely venture to say that Dave as songwriter for Foos has made more money with them than he did as the drummer for Nirvana.

I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

You're probably not wrong.

As an aside but just as important imo..even though Im not a Foo cocksucker, I like what they have done over the decade and a half regarding rock without all the pretentious-ness of fucking Nirvana. "That fuckin Kurt Cobian"-Mickey Rourke/The Wrestler

<--puts on Ratt and Foo Fighters

I can't take no Nirvana hate.

What I like about Nirvana is that they didn't center their career around love and girls. They came out, did what they did without ANY pretense to blowing up (who could with such abstraction and a style that was totally different then what was going on at the time) and they had a post-punk (hell it was 1992) ethos.

I think they were just being them. Then again I am a "alterna-90's" stan.

rdhull said:

CynicKill said:

. Then the voice thing and oh boy...

@ "and oh boy"

but what voice thing?

She can't sing anymore.

People always dogged her singing but if you listen to early HOLE and then listen to her now, it's obvious she abused her talent. She sounded lazy or drunk or both. Easy notes she can't reach...

The lyricism seemed more prophetic back in the day. It could be just age (It isn't 1994 anymore) but some urgency is lost. I could be nit-picking.

CynicKill said:

rdhull said:

You're probably not wrong.

As an aside but just as important imo..even though Im not a Foo cocksucker, I like what they have done over the decade and a half regarding rock without all the pretentious-ness of fucking Nirvana. "That fuckin Kurt Cobian"-Mickey Rourke/The Wrestler

<--puts on Ratt and Foo Fighters

I can't take no Nirvana hate.

What I like about Nirvana is that they didn't center their career around love and girls. They came out, did what they did without ANY pretense to blowing up (who could with such abstraction and a style that was totally different then what was going on at the time) and they had a post-punk (hell it was 1992) ethos.

I think they were just being them. Then again I am a "alterna-90's" stan.

The fuck they were. They were trying to be The Pixies....just because their shit blew up massively with the general public, dont get it twisted.

And I think they were good for what they did in a limited basis especially making the hair bands look foolish..but folks romanticize Nirvana just like they do Lauryn Hill and her one album equaling goddess status.

tangerine7 said:

http://flavorwire.com/202...ean-cobain

Glamorous Old Hollywood-S...ean Cobain

Frances Bean Cobain, the sole progeny of music icons Courtney Love and the late Kurt Cobain, turns 19 years old today. Since her dad’s days in Nirvana and her mom’s days in Hole, the young Cobain has grown into quite the classic beauty, not to mention a talented visual artist (under the pseudonym “Fiddle Tim”), too. The offspring of rock royalty recently made the smart decision to work with renowned Los Angeles-based celebrity photographer Rocky Schenck, who captured her good looks and rebel pedigree in a captivating homage to the screen sirens of old Hollywood. Click through below for more sultry and sexy images of Frances Bean Cobain. Happy birthday, Frances, and many more.

[img:$uid]http://assets.flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/1Francis1F006_b_W.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2Francis4C-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/3Francis2C-CROP.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/4Francis3A-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5Francis2A-CROP-B-W.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/6FrancisSMOKING-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/7Francis2D-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/8Francis2A-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/9Francis3C-copy.jpg%20[/img:$uid]

Aww, these pictures are lovely.

NDRU said:

rialb said:

Source? I'm guessing that Nevermind probably sold more than all of the Foo Fighters albums combined.

True, but the Foo Fighters have been active and touring for over 15 years.

I definitely venture to say that Dave as songwriter for Foos has made more money with them than he did as the drummer for Nirvana.

I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

Sure, Dave deserves credit for successfully coming out from under the shadow of Nirvana which is no easy task and something that Krist was unable to do but any comparison between the Foo Fighters and Nirvana, in terms of commercial success, is silly. Nirvana were an active band for what, five-six years? The Foo Fighters have been going for about seventeen years now and they still haven't sold as many albums as Nirvana. Even if they had the only fair way to compare would be on a per album average which would really favour Nirvana.

rdhull said:

CynicKill said:

I can't take no Nirvana hate.

What I like about Nirvana is that they didn't center their career around love and girls. They came out, did what they did without ANY pretense to blowing up (who could with such abstraction and a style that was totally different then what was going on at the time) and they had a post-punk (hell it was 1992) ethos.

I think they were just being them. Then again I am a "alterna-90's" stan.

The fuck they were. They were trying to be The Pixies....just because their shit blew up massively with the general public, dont get it twisted.

And I think they were good for what they did in a limited basis especially making the hair bands look foolish..but folks romanticize Nirvana just like they do Lauryn Hill and her one album equaling goddess status.

The Pixies fronted by Paul Westerberg.

Freud would enjoy this

wanting to bang the daughter of your deceased best friend...

wow

rialb said:

NDRU said:

True, but the Foo Fighters have been active and touring for over 15 years.

I definitely venture to say that Dave as songwriter for Foos has made more money with them than he did as the drummer for Nirvana.

I mean, I could be wrong, of course.

Sure, Dave deserves credit for successfully coming out from under the shadow of Nirvana which is no easy task and something that Krist was unable to do but any comparison between the Foo Fighters and Nirvana, in terms of commercial success, is silly. Nirvana were an active band for what, five-six years? The Foo Fighters have been going for about seventeen years now and they still haven't sold as many albums as Nirvana. Even if they had the only fair way to compare would be on a per album average which would really favour Nirvana.

I'm not talking about impact or record sales, I'm talking about money.

With all the touring and head writership alone he's most likely made more money with Foos then Nirvana.

CynicKill said:

With all the touring and head writership alone he's most likely made more money with Foos then Nirvana.

Exactly, nobody's saying that the Foo Fighters are a bigger band or had bigger hits, but they just may have made more money for Dave Grohl.

rdhull said:

CynicKill said:

I can't take no Nirvana hate.

What I like about Nirvana is that they didn't center their career around love and girls. They came out, did what they did without ANY pretense to blowing up (who could with such abstraction and a style that was totally different then what was going on at the time) and they had a post-punk (hell it was 1992) ethos.

I think they were just being them. Then again I am a "alterna-90's" stan.

The fuck they were. They were trying to be The Pixies....just because their shit blew up massively with the general public, dont get it twisted.

And I think they were good for what they did in a limited basis especially making the hair bands look foolish..but folks romanticize Nirvana just like they do Lauryn Hill and her one album equaling goddess status.

Ok I feel you on that, but just the fact that they wanted to be like local (they were local right) heroes as opposed to say, Guns and Roses with puzzling lyrics sort of puts them in the catagory of doing something quite not expected.

In the end though it's a good case of potential halted. I have no doubt they would still be great had circumstances been different.

CynicKill said:

With all the touring and head writership alone he's most likely made more money with Foos then Nirvana.

Ah good point. Yeah he's definitely raking the bucks with the Foos. I get what you mean now.