Raw

@ Marilyn in this video...

Timmy84 said:

@ Marilyn in this video...

You know, when he was all dolled up or deviled up He actually was a decent looking guy. He's got that Pete Burns hair in this video

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

@ Marilyn in this video...

You know, when he was all dolled up or deviled up He actually was a decent looking guy. He's got that Pete Burns hair in this video

I have a soft spot for him when he smears himself in makeup... which he obviously don't do anymore (more polished these days).

Jesus, those early songs of his were so badly written.

Yet, I still prefer this over the later material.

novabrkr said:

Jesus, those early songs of his were so badly written.

Yet, I still prefer this over the later material.

i don't think it's badly written. And it for sure got the people talking back in the day

novabrkr said:

Jesus, those early songs of his were so badly written.

Yet, I still prefer this over the later material.

I agree with your first point but strongly disagree with your second. Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque are all much better than Portrait of an American Family and Smells Like Children. The same thing was true of Alice Cooper. His/their first two albums were pretty patchy but then the next four were awesome. I think both Alice and Marilyn really grew a lot and learned how to construct great songs after their first two releases.

rialb said:

novabrkr said:

Jesus, those early songs of his were so badly written.

Yet, I still prefer this over the later material.

I agree with your first point but strongly disagree with your second. Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque are all much better than Portrait of an American Family and Smells Like Children. The same thing was true of Alice Cooper. His/their first two albums were pretty patchy but then the next four were awesome. I think both Alice and Marilyn really grew a lot and learned how to construct great songs after their first two releases.

To bad neither can do that as much nowaday's

I always thought he was a trainwreck

rialb said:

novabrkr said:

Jesus, those early songs of his were so badly written.

Yet, I still prefer this over the later material.

I agree with your first point but strongly disagree with your second. Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque are all much better than Portrait of an American Family and Smells Like Children. The same thing was true of Alice Cooper. His/their first two albums were pretty patchy but then the next four were awesome. I think both Alice and Marilyn really grew a lot and learned how to construct great songs after their first two releases.

By "later" I meant his output of the last 10 years or so. I stopped caring about his stuff after "Holy Wood". There's some strong stuff on the newer albums as well, but I just feel he ran out of ideas a long time ago (and MM as an artist was always about ideas and concepts and that's not a bad thing necessarily).

novabrkr said:

rialb said:

I agree with your first point but strongly disagree with your second. Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque are all much better than Portrait of an American Family and Smells Like Children. The same thing was true of Alice Cooper. His/their first two albums were pretty patchy but then the next four were awesome. I think both Alice and Marilyn really grew a lot and learned how to construct great songs after their first two releases.

By "later" I meant his output of the last 10 years or so. I stopped caring about his stuff after "Holy Wood". There's some strong stuff on the newer albums as well, but I just feel he ran out of ideas a long time ago (and MM as an artist was always about ideas and concepts and that's not a bad thing necessarily).

True, although i like most of the stuff on Grotesque & even some of the stuff on Eat Me. But High End Of Low was LE MESS of mess

To me the trilogy of Antichrist, Animals & Hollywood was his prime so i can agree on that

Gunsnhalen said:

novabrkr said:

By "later" I meant his output of the last 10 years or so. I stopped caring about his stuff after "Holy Wood". There's some strong stuff on the newer albums as well, but I just feel he ran out of ideas a long time ago (and MM as an artist was always about ideas and concepts and that's not a bad thing necessarily).

True, although i like most of the stuff on Grotesque & even some of the stuff on Eat Me. But High End Of Low was LE MESS of mess

To me the trilogy of Antichrist, Animals & Hollywood was his prime so i can agree on that

The Golden Age of Grotesque is very solid. I can see why people view it as being lesser than the three albums that preceeded it but it is still a very good album. Conceptually I don't think it holds together as well as the previous three but as a collection of songs it is great. I think it is to Mr. Warner's credit that the quality of his albums circa 1996-2003 remained quite high when he was working with different collaborators from album to album.

I have Eat Me, Drink Me but have barely listened to it. I still haven't heard The High End of Low.

I absolutely hated Manson during his peak (1995-1999) but in 2003 I finally sat down and actually listened to his music and had to conclude that he was one of the better hard rock acts of the second half of the nineties.

rialb said:

Gunsnhalen said:

True, although i like most of the stuff on Grotesque & even some of the stuff on Eat Me. But High End Of Low was LE MESS of mess

To me the trilogy of Antichrist, Animals & Hollywood was his prime so i can agree on that

The Golden Age of Grotesque is very solid. I can see why people view it as being lesser than the three albums that preceeded it but it is still a very good album. Conceptually I don't think it holds together as well as the previous three but as a collection of songs it is great. I think it is to Mr. Warner's credit that the quality of his albums circa 1996-2003 remained quite high when he was working with different collaborators from album to album.

I have Eat Me, Drink Me but have barely listened to it. I still haven't heard The High End of Low.

I absolutely hated Manson during his peak (1995-1999) but in 2003 I finally sat down and actually listened to his music and had to conclude that he was one of the better hard rock acts of the second half of the nineties.

I didn't get into him till 04/05. before he was just a weird, rockstar. People at school said he was gay or bisexual and he did all this crazy shit on stage. One guy claimed he had john 5 suck his dick on stage and threw cum in the audience Gotta love those shock rockers & the rumors of what goes on at there shows.

Gunsnhalen said:

novabrkr said:

By "later" I meant his output of the last 10 years or so. I stopped caring about his stuff after "Holy Wood". There's some strong stuff on the newer albums as well, but I just feel he ran out of ideas a long time ago (and MM as an artist was always about ideas and concepts and that's not a bad thing necessarily).

True, although i like most of the stuff on Grotesque & even some of the stuff on Eat Me. But High End Of Low was LE MESS of mess

To me the trilogy of Antichrist, Animals & Hollywood was his prime so i can agree on that

I feel the same. I was an early listener, I got this album the first week it came out because when I was in high school I bought anything that Trent was associated with. But after about 2000 he started to lose my attention and I havent really bought anything by him since. His schtick just doesnt have any relevance to me anymore and his whole glorifying evil, violence, pain, the occult, murderer thing is just kinda passe IMO. I feel that at this stage in his career the main focus should shift to being the music and let the transgressive stuff fall away. I like some of the stuff he's done in the latter albums, but I think he's afraid of losing the audience of teenagers that goes for the shock themes so he still makes that the heart of his albums.

I loved Portrait, and as a raw hard rock/metal album I still think it holds up. A lot of the songs were topical (including this one) but I think if you didn't know what he was talking about, it made the song a little harder to appreciate. The SOUND of this album is something that I don't think has ever been repeated. For as much of a dick as Daisy Berkowitz was, his guitar style was pretty original.

But I agree that the trilogy of Antichrist, Animals, and Holy Wood was the band's high water mark (especially Holy Wood) and I'd say those stack up there with the best of Pink Floyd as far as great rock concept albums go.