Glad everything turned out okay... I hope El gets the helps he needs though

prodigalfan said:

HotGritz said:

Ok I never thought El was any kind of gay cuz I just never got that vibe from him and my gaydar is on point tyvm!

The one question that burns in my mind. and I hesitate to ask out of respect for Debarge fans (y'all go harder than those Bieber fans lemme tell you), is:

HOW DID EL SURVIVE PRISON BEING THAT DAMNED FINE? I mean really! Wouldn't Bubba an dem try and yank his ass at some point? Prison queers don't give a fuck who you are or what you did or how many friends you got, they are viscious and sexually twisted to no end.

Soooo.....whatchu think?

I wondered about the same thing... (and when he was in prison and I would read about him, those thoughts would cross my mind, and I would just close my eyes and shake my head. I seriously thought he would come out a mess because he is so damn pretty).

But, he said that he would do other kinds of favors... perform for someone's party etc. Anything to stay safe. He actually addressed this issue.

But honestly who is to say. I have family members who have been in prison for ... shit.... decades. How do they stay straight? I think incarcerated men have homosexual sex contact but don't think of themselves as gay since it was either non consensual, or forced due to circumstances, but not the PREFERRED.

I think the one's who rape or even attempt to gain a willing partner were always gay but they just lived on the DL in the outside world. Prison doesn't make you gay. You either are or you are not. In El's case, I think or rather hope that someone was such a fan that they took the role of protector for no other reason than being a fan & having respect for him as an artist. Maybe he was even able to pay. I mean he had to afford his commissary so maybe he would buy for others just to keep them off his back. BUT...how would El fight someone who ALWAYS lusted after him? Some dudes don't give a fuck about no performance or non-sexual favor, they want waht they want right then and there. Lord forgive me for thinking this but I can't help it because there are ugly dudes getting raped in prison so it boggles the mind how El could stay free. He is so skinny too.

Timmy84 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Wha?!?!? I missed hearing about that!

[Edited 3/22/12 12:22pm]

I don't know about rape but he did get charged with a domestic violence charge right around 1986...

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know about rape but he did get charged with a domestic violence charge right around 1986...

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

Thanks. I wasn't initially sure if it was assault or domestic. I had read on it somewhere but had forgotten about it. Someone had brought it up when El first got in serious trouble with the law.

prodigalfan said:

HotGritz said:

Ok I never thought El was any kind of gay cuz I just never got that vibe from him and my gaydar is on point tyvm!

The one question that burns in my mind. and I hesitate to ask out of respect for Debarge fans (y'all go harder than those Bieber fans lemme tell you), is:

HOW DID EL SURVIVE PRISON BEING THAT DAMNED FINE? I mean really! Wouldn't Bubba an dem try and yank his ass at some point? Prison queers don't give a fuck who you are or what you did or how many friends you got, they are viscious and sexually twisted to no end.

Soooo.....whatchu think?

I wondered about the same thing... (and when he was in prison and I would read about him, those thoughts would cross my mind, and I would just close my eyes and shake my head. I seriously thought he would come out a mess because he is so damn pretty).

But, he said that he would do other kinds of favors... perform for someone's party etc. Anything to stay safe. He actually addressed this issue.

But honestly who is to say. I have family members who have been in prison for ... shit.... decades. How do they stay straight? I think incarcerated men have homosexual sex contact but don't think of themselves as gay since it was either non consensual, or forced due to circumstances, but not the PREFERRED.

Call me a skepetic now, but I'd not have expected that El would cop to doing more traditional "favors" that prison is known for. Doesn't make it any less possible that he did them. This guy ain't his siblings or Mama, he's not gonna give any more of a story than necessary to make the point!

Yup you're right about the whole thing when it comes to how some men may rationalize their actual sex lives w/ their self-identity.

Consider his drug life too. Here's a guy w/o a home sleeping on people's floors and even on the streets for years....then there are dealers and people you wanna borrow money from. There's a reason people think of crackheads saying "I'll suck your dick for..." His lifestyle outside of prson was probably not atypical of what happened to Bobby or (allegedly) poor James.

HotGritz said:

prodigalfan said:

I wondered about the same thing... (and when he was in prison and I would read about him, those thoughts would cross my mind, and I would just close my eyes and shake my head. I seriously thought he would come out a mess because he is so damn pretty).

But, he said that he would do other kinds of favors... perform for someone's party etc. Anything to stay safe. He actually addressed this issue.

But honestly who is to say. I have family members who have been in prison for ... shit.... decades. How do they stay straight? I think incarcerated men have homosexual sex contact but don't think of themselves as gay since it was either non consensual, or forced due to circumstances, but not the PREFERRED.

I think the one's who rape or even attempt to gain a willing partner were always gay but they just lived on the DL in the outside world. Prison doesn't make you gay. You either are or you are not. In El's case, I think or rather hope that someone was such a fan that they took the role of protector for no other reason than being a fan & having respect for him as an artist. Maybe he was even able to pay. I mean he had to afford his commissary so maybe he would buy for others just to keep them off his back. BUT...how would El fight someone who ALWAYS lusted after him? Some dudes don't give a fuck about no performance or non-sexual favor, they want waht they want right then and there. Lord forgive me for thinking this but I can't help it because there are ugly dudes getting raped in prison so it boggles the mind how El could stay free. He is so skinny too.

Well he was put in the celeb part of the jail, but there's plenty of ways around that starting w/ guards themselves. He said a guard picked him out of a chow line, made him sing (he chose Rhythm ), and then dogged him in front of everybody....that's not a good thing!

El's a purty little yella guy but hella tough (see that Quik vid for how he fronted a much bigger dude...who backed down) so I think he could at least give a good fight if pushed. However, perhaps he took the more pragmatic route and chose the right Bubba.

As I said earlier, El had several brothers do time before him, so he knew what to expect and how to roll...in theory.

IOW, do I think he escaped "unwanted attention"? ...nope.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know about rape but he did get charged with a domestic violence charge right around 1986...

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

I can't imagine El having to rape a woman UNLESS....he was in one of his cracked out moments and the woman simply deemed him unattractive and dangerous at that particular point in time. I mean I would have slept with the "normal" El on many an occasion but I could never get down with the "crackhead" El simply because its scary and unsafe. Maybe he was so used to getting the pussy that he couldn't handle being rejected.

I still have a hard time accepting that Jackie Wilson raped Patti Labelle. But I believe her.

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

I can't imagine El having to rape a woman UNLESS....he was in one of his cracked out moments and the woman simply deemed him unattractive and dangerous at that particular point in time. I mean I would have slept with the "normal" El on many an occasion but I could never get down with the "crackhead" El simply because its scary and unsafe. Maybe he was so used to getting the pussy that he couldn't handle being rejected.

I still have a hard time accepting that Jackie Wilson raped Patti Labelle. But I believe her.

Yeah I can't believe he would do that. I'm still shaking my head about the situation with Jackie and Patti. I mean I knew Patti went through some SHIT but I can't stomach that. Regardless of her current situations, my heart still goes out to her.

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

I can't imagine El having to rape a woman UNLESS....he was in one of his cracked out moments and the woman simply deemed him unattractive and dangerous at that particular point in time. I mean I would have slept with the "normal" El on many an occasion but I could never get down with the "crackhead" El simply because its scary and unsafe. Maybe he was so used to getting the pussy that he couldn't handle being rejected.

I still have a hard time accepting that Jackie Wilson raped Patti Labelle. But I believe her.

Jackie Wilson?! I think I'd heard rumor of this somwehere years ago. Well didn't one of his women shoot him?

As for El, I'm not sure if drugs had happened then or had just started happening. That said, some folks who are used to getting what they want can't handle when they can't. Even before De Barge was huge, I doubt he heard "no" often....for obvious reason! Dare I suggest that El is also Daddy DeBarges' son too and got a measure of his ways/attitudes? How did he see a man relate to a woman? What about in the larger Abney family? What about the hood they lived in? Not everything can be blamed on drugs. HIs own mother said he and his brothers were "sexually insatiable" then add "pop star" to the mix.....lots of ugly can happen w/ just that, let alone adding dope/booze to the sitch.

brooksie said:

HotGritz said:

I can't imagine El having to rape a woman UNLESS....he was in one of his cracked out moments and the woman simply deemed him unattractive and dangerous at that particular point in time. I mean I would have slept with the "normal" El on many an occasion but I could never get down with the "crackhead" El simply because its scary and unsafe. Maybe he was so used to getting the pussy that he couldn't handle being rejected.

I still have a hard time accepting that Jackie Wilson raped Patti Labelle. But I believe her.

Jackie Wilson?! I think I'd heard rumor of this somwehere years ago. Well didn't one of his women shoot him?

As for El, I'm not sure if drugs had happened then or had just started happening. That said, some folks who are used to getting what they want can't handle when they can't. Even before De Barge was huge, I doubt he heard "no" often....for obvious reason! Dare I suggest that El is also Daddy DeBarges' son too and got a measure of his ways/attitudes? How did he see a man relate to a woman? What about in the larger Abney family? What about the hood they lived in? Not everything can be blamed on drugs. HIs own mother said he and his brothers were "sexually insatiable" then add "pop star" to the mix.....lots of ugly can happen w/ just that, let alone adding dope/booze to the sitch.

You know shit is fucked up when your own momma publicly calls you a ho and a sex addict.

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

Jackie Wilson?! I think I'd heard rumor of this somwehere years ago. Well didn't one of his women shoot him?

As for El, I'm not sure if drugs had happened then or had just started happening. That said, some folks who are used to getting what they want can't handle when they can't. Even before De Barge was huge, I doubt he heard "no" often....for obvious reason! Dare I suggest that El is also Daddy DeBarges' son too and got a measure of his ways/attitudes? How did he see a man relate to a woman? What about in the larger Abney family? What about the hood they lived in? Not everything can be blamed on drugs. HIs own mother said he and his brothers were "sexually insatiable" then add "pop star" to the mix.....lots of ugly can happen w/ just that, let alone adding dope/booze to the sitch.

You know shit is fucked up when your own momma publicly calls you a ho and a sex addict.

MamaD has Twitter'd/FB'd on this very subject.

His mother knew tons about their sex lives and how they rolled. They seem to have no shame in their game. Girls used to climb in her window to get down w/ them. (OK can't blame them) Basically these dudes shared (sometimes in the same bed at the same time), they tried to hit it w/ the others gf/wives, they'd sit around and talk very graphically about what/how/what it looked like/etc....these cats were Mac Daddies who loved nothing more than a "freak" w/o inhabitions. Their own mama said one thing they could never tolerate was a girl w/ sexual inhabitions! Have no reason to doubt her there, so she put their wives/gfs on Front Street BIG TIME!!

brooksie said:

HotGritz said:

You know shit is fucked up when your own momma publicly calls you a ho and a sex addict.

MamaD has Twitter'd/FB'd on this very subject.

His mother knew tons about their sex lives and how they rolled. They seem to have no shame in their game. Girls used to climb in her window to get down w/ them. (OK can't blame them) Basically these dudes shared (sometimes in the same bed at the same time), they tried to hit it w/ the others gf/wives, they'd sit around and talk very graphically about what/how/what it looked like/etc....these cats were Mac Daddies who loved nothing more than a "freak" w/o inhabitions. Their own mama said one thing they could never tolerate was a girl w/ sexual inhabitions! Have no reason to doubt her there, so she put their wives/gfs on Front Street BIG TIME!!

Damn that is so crazy. Just low class. Then again, I guess its how they were raised. That whole wife and girlfriend swapping is just

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

MamaD has Twitter'd/FB'd on this very subject.

His mother knew tons about their sex lives and how they rolled. They seem to have no shame in their game. Girls used to climb in her window to get down w/ them. (OK can't blame them) Basically these dudes shared (sometimes in the same bed at the same time), they tried to hit it w/ the others gf/wives, they'd sit around and talk very graphically about what/how/what it looked like/etc....these cats were Mac Daddies who loved nothing more than a "freak" w/o inhabitions. Their own mama said one thing they could never tolerate was a girl w/ sexual inhabitions! Have no reason to doubt her there, so she put their wives/gfs on Front Street BIG TIME!!

Damn that is so crazy. Just low class. Then again, I guess its how they were raised. That whole wife and girlfriend swapping is just

It's a form of incest. If they were/are so casual about this to where their mama knows, why should I believe that the other forms of incest are off limits for them? Most sane men would just fall over dead if their mama knew how they got down, right? They are a family w/ very few boundaries about anything. Sheesh, their own mama told their biz and that's scary enough. How, praytell, does one's mother find out this kind of stuff? They just got no (or not much) shame in their game.

Tommy 'fessed to pimping Ducky for dope and his own voyeuristic fetishes. Tommy, Bunny, and Bobby saw their 1st porn together! These folks just never stop bringin' the now do they?

brooksie said:

HotGritz said:

Damn that is so crazy. Just low class. Then again, I guess its how they were raised. That whole wife and girlfriend swapping is just

It's a form of incest. If they were/are so casual about this to where their mama knows, why should I believe that the other forms of incest are off limits for them? Most sane men would just fall over dead if their mama knew how they got down, right? They are a family w/ very few boundaries about anything. Sheesh, their own mama told their biz and that's scary enough. How, praytell, does one's mother find out this kind of stuff? They just got no (or not much) shame in their game.

Tommy 'fessed to pimping Ducky for dope and his own voyeuristic fetishes. Tommy, Bunny, and Bobby saw their 1st porn together! :-o These folks just never stop bringin' the now do they?

Oh gawd!!! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy????????????????????

brooksie said:

HotGritz said:

I think the one's who rape or even attempt to gain a willing partner were always gay but they just lived on the DL in the outside world. Prison doesn't make you gay. You either are or you are not. In El's case, I think or rather hope that someone was such a fan that they took the role of protector for no other reason than being a fan & having respect for him as an artist. Maybe he was even able to pay. I mean he had to afford his commissary so maybe he would buy for others just to keep them off his back. BUT...how would El fight someone who ALWAYS lusted after him? Some dudes don't give a fuck about no performance or non-sexual favor, they want waht they want right then and there. Lord forgive me for thinking this but I can't help it because there are ugly dudes getting raped in prison so it boggles the mind how El could stay free. He is so skinny too.

Well he was put in the celeb part of the jail, but there's plenty of ways around that starting w/ guards themselves. He said a guard picked him out of a chow line, made him sing (he chose Rhythm ), and then dogged him in front of everybody....that's not a good thing!

El's a purty little yella guy but hella tough (see that Quik vid for how he fronted a much bigger dude...who backed down) so I think he could at least give a good fight if pushed. However, perhaps he took the more pragmatic route and chose the right Bubba.

As I said earlier, El had several brothers do time before him, so he knew what to expect and how to roll...in theory.

IOW, do I think he escaped "unwanted attention"? ...nope.

Lots of guys outside of prison don't get enough poon and we all don't turn gay so I think the prison thing is more about an assertion of power and a part of the accepted norm. My best-friend who knows people who spent time in prison said that they just don't talk about those things when they get out. My beliefs are that Americans can't even treat each other fairly in the everyday world, you remove all rights and it's the law of the jungle.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know about rape but he did get charged with a domestic violence charge right around 1986...

In 1986, it was an assault charge that had something to do w/ him hitting a girl who claimed he forced her and then some kind of ruckus breaking out at the college w/ serious damage. Wild shit...sounded totally like crap........THEN!

It was a crazy case (or it seemed at the time). I mean 'why would El have to force himself on someone' then at the height of his fame was the general feeling.?! I recall this scandal happening around the time of "You Wear It Well" and when he was on "Fact of Life".

The domestic violence charges came later...IIRC one in 2001 and one in 2007 (I'm sure of that one).

who knows, women do crazy shit that much I know for a fact. But then, I've had bad luck with them. Fortunately nothing as psycho as a rape accusation never happened but definitely lots of head games so I for one don't necessarily believe it when I hear those things.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

^^^^ El is one very lucky (kinda sorta) Negro!

Nah he's lucky period!

nah thats prayer

Well it sounds like this could have been a misunderstanding, but El relapsed just last year so nothing would surprise me. He's one i've been worried about for some time. I really hope El stays off drugs. He's too talented and too damn fine for that! Lol Sorry, that's shallow but I loooooooove me some El and I wish the best for him. I don't want to hear about any more of our legends passing away at a young age. I hope all is well with him.

Timmy84 said:

HotGritz said:

I can't imagine El having to rape a woman UNLESS....he was in one of his cracked out moments and the woman simply deemed him unattractive and dangerous at that particular point in time. I mean I would have slept with the "normal" El on many an occasion but I could never get down with the "crackhead" El simply because its scary and unsafe. Maybe he was so used to getting the pussy that he couldn't handle being rejected.

I still have a hard time accepting that Jackie Wilson raped Patti Labelle. But I believe her.

Yeah I can't believe he would do that. I'm still shaking my head about the situation with Jackie and Patti. I mean I knew Patti went through some SHIT but I can't stomach that. Regardless of her current situations, my heart still goes out to her.

Who knows what happened, I know people say anything to sell their new book. The thing about the Jackie story is you find other women like aretha and so on who knew him and generally there stories are so positive about the guy. Little Richards ex also spoke of Jackie as just a fun loving guy who would screw anyone but never said anything even approaching rape. I've said this many times but people are encouraged to lie when they write books, it makes them sellable. Darlene Love says that Elvis propositioned her and said "I've never been with a black girl before" but it's fairly common knowledge that Elvis had lots of sex with black girls early in his career.

petes2 said:

brooksie said:

Well he was put in the celeb part of the jail, but there's plenty of ways around that starting w/ guards themselves. He said a guard picked him out of a chow line, made him sing (he chose Rhythm ), and then dogged him in front of everybody....that's not a good thing!

El's a purty little yella guy but hella tough (see that Quik vid for how he fronted a much bigger dude...who backed down) so I think he could at least give a good fight if pushed. However, perhaps he took the more pragmatic route and chose the right Bubba.

As I said earlier, El had several brothers do time before him, so he knew what to expect and how to roll...in theory.

IOW, do I think he escaped "unwanted attention"? ...nope.

Lots of guys outside of prison don't get enough poon and we all don't turn gay so I think the prison thing is more about an assertion of power and a part of the accepted norm. My best-friend who knows people who spent time in prison said that they just don't talk about those things when they get out. My beliefs are that Americans can't even treat each other fairly in the everyday world, you remove all rights and it's the law of the jungle.

Well its not just Americans. I doubt prisons in other countries are not experiencing the same issues of mistreatment and abuse and dare I say its probably worse in other nations where prisoners just don't have rights. Crime and abuse outside of prison is a worldwide problem. I would like to see a nation that has no prisons and no need for law enforcement but of course, such a utopia does not exist.

The thing about prison rape/sex and how the men feel is crazy ridiculous but then again, many men are crazy in general when it comes to sex and sexuality. If you are a woman, you've experienced first hand how crazy a guy can be. Thing is, if you can fix your brain to want to stick your dick in some dudes mouth/ass and/or have him do it to you then how the hell are you going to say you aren't in any way shape or form gay? If you can fix your mind to fuck El Debarge, or even some ugly scrub that no woman would consider fucking, where do you get it in your mind that you aren't gay?

Even guys who have had plenty poon outside of prison, whether consentual or not, may engage in sex with men in prison and they may force themselves on men. That's why I think they were that way before they went to the big house. Maybe prison is like alchohol. It brings out the hidden side of a human being....if you have had too much to drink.

That's why we have religion and education and chores/work detail in prison. Those are the things that keep the men (and the women) human instead of having them revert to some animalistic state.

I digress.

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

It's a form of incest. If they were/are so casual about this to where their mama knows, why should I believe that the other forms of incest are off limits for them? Most sane men would just fall over dead if their mama knew how they got down, right? They are a family w/ very few boundaries about anything. Sheesh, their own mama told their biz and that's scary enough. How, praytell, does one's mother find out this kind of stuff? They just got no (or not much) shame in their game.

Tommy 'fessed to pimping Ducky for dope and his own voyeuristic fetishes. Tommy, Bunny, and Bobby saw their 1st porn together! :-o These folks just never stop bringin' the now do they?

Oh gawd!!! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy????????????????????

Have mercy!!!!

petes2 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I can't believe he would do that. I'm still shaking my head about the situation with Jackie and Patti. I mean I knew Patti went through some SHIT but I can't stomach that. Regardless of her current situations, my heart still goes out to her.

Who knows what happened, I know people say anything to sell their new book. The thing about the Jackie story is you find other women like aretha and so on who knew him and generally there stories are so positive about the guy. Little Richards ex also spoke of Jackie as just a fun loving guy who would screw anyone but never said anything even approaching rape. I've said this many times but people are encouraged to lie when they write books, it makes them sellable. Darlene Love says that Elvis propositioned her and said "I've never been with a black girl before" but it's fairly common knowledge that Elvis had lots of sex with black girls early in his career.

Hmm... interesting...

HotGritz said:

The thing about prison rape/sex and how the men feel is crazy ridiculous but then again, many men are crazy in general when it comes to sex and sexuality. If you are a woman, you've experienced first hand how crazy a guy can be. Thing is, if you can fix your brain to want to stick your dick in some dudes mouth/ass and/or have him do it to you then how the hell are you going to say you aren't in any way shape or form gay? If you can fix your mind to fuck El Debarge, or even some ugly scrub that no woman would consider fucking, where do you get it in your mind that you aren't gay?

Even guys who have had plenty poon outside of prison, whether consentual or not, may engage in sex with men in prison and they may force themselves on men. That's why I think they were that way before they went to the big house. Maybe prison is like alchohol. It brings out the hidden side of a human being....if you have had too much to drink.

That's why we have religion and education and chores/work detail in prison. Those are the things that keep the men (and the women) human instead of having them revert to some animalistic state.

I digress.

its worth mentioning that for centuries men had sex with other men for pleasure and women for duty and never once thought of themselves as "homosexuals" or "gays". those terms came into play with christianity and puritanism here in the states. its the rigid heterosexual ideology that makes a man or boy "automaticlly gay"if they are raped.....

just sayin.

El caught a break. How U out slangin' rock in broad daylight in Encino? Really? Might as well have been standing in front of Hayvenhurst?

He still needs some serious help, he's not gonna be so lucky the next time.

HotGritz said:

petes2 said:

Lots of guys outside of prison don't get enough poon and we all don't turn gay so I think the prison thing is more about an assertion of power and a part of the accepted norm. My best-friend who knows people who spent time in prison said that they just don't talk about those things when they get out. My beliefs are that Americans can't even treat each other fairly in the everyday world, you remove all rights and it's the law of the jungle.

Well its not just Americans. I doubt prisons in other countries are not experiencing the same issues of mistreatment and abuse and dare I say its probably worse in other nations where prisoners just don't have rights. Crime and abuse outside of prison is a worldwide problem. I would like to see a nation that has no prisons and no need for law enforcement but of course, such a utopia does not exist.

The thing about prison rape/sex and how the men feel is crazy ridiculous but then again, many men are crazy in general when it comes to sex and sexuality. If you are a woman, you've experienced first hand how crazy a guy can be. Thing is, if you can fix your brain to want to stick your dick in some dudes mouth/ass and/or have him do it to you then how the hell are you going to say you aren't in any way shape or form gay? If you can fix your mind to fuck El Debarge, or even some ugly scrub that no woman would consider fucking, where do you get it in your mind that you aren't gay?

Even guys who have had plenty poon outside of prison, whether consentual or not, may engage in sex with men in prison and they may force themselves on men. That's why I think they were that way before they went to the big house. Maybe prison is like alchohol. It brings out the hidden side of a human being....if you have had too much to drink.

That's why we have religion and education and chores/work detail in prison. Those are the things that keep the men (and the women) human instead of having them revert to some animalistic state.

I digress.

Well I say america because it's what I know, it's a violent place, mentally and physically. I don't see any difference anymore in bob being treated like shit by his boss and the thug down the street beating some chump over the head, its' all the same to me. I'm basically tribal though so my outlook is different. I firmly believe though that assertion of dominance has a lot to do with prison rape, just like sex outside of prison. And I don't know what your exp with men is but my circle of friends don't include men that would ever do those kinds of things, in fact it's the opposite, the woman usually has control.

MadamGoodnight said:

El caught a break. How U out slangin' rock in broad daylight in Encino? Really? Might as well have been standing in front of Hayvenhurst?

He still needs some serious help, he's not gonna be so lucky the next time.

That just reads so funny.

For us non Californians, was this close to MJ's? The whole underpass thing sounds so shady yet exposed. Was the choice incompentence on El's part or how things roll out there? It just sounds like he shoulda had a big ol sign saying "WIll Sing for Crack"

(OK I had to clown El a bit, tho I'm rocking out "Tip O My Tongue" right now )

wavesofbliss said:

HotGritz said:

The thing about prison rape/sex and how the men feel is crazy ridiculous but then again, many men are crazy in general when it comes to sex and sexuality. If you are a woman, you've experienced first hand how crazy a guy can be. Thing is, if you can fix your brain to want to stick your dick in some dudes mouth/ass and/or have him do it to you then how the hell are you going to say you aren't in any way shape or form gay? If you can fix your mind to fuck El Debarge, or even some ugly scrub that no woman would consider fucking, where do you get it in your mind that you aren't gay?

Even guys who have had plenty poon outside of prison, whether consentual or not, may engage in sex with men in prison and they may force themselves on men. That's why I think they were that way before they went to the big house. Maybe prison is like alchohol. It brings out the hidden side of a human being....if you have had too much to drink.

That's why we have religion and education and chores/work detail in prison. Those are the things that keep the men (and the women) human instead of having them revert to some animalistic state.

I digress.

its worth mentioning that for centuries men had sex with other men for pleasure and women for duty and never once thought of themselves as "homosexuals" or "gays". those terms came into play with christianity and puritanism here in the states. its the rigid heterosexual ideology that makes a man or boy "automaticlly gay"if they are raped.....

just sayin.

I wouldn't blame it all on ideology but just the warped thinking of those who for a long tme have been in power and have made the rules. Why would a man think of a woman as something dutiful as opposed to pleasurable and in the same vein fault, scold and punish that woman for seeking her own sexual pleasure with another man?

I digress yet again...

Julius Ceasar once tried to make it a law that he could have sex with any woman, even the wives of other senators. Why would he do that? Some boys just want their cake and want to eat it too.

As for men throughout history not applying gay or straight titles to themselves, I think its because they never had to because they made the rules but trust and believe they have always been quick to label a woman a whore for every reason under the sun.

I go back to my original point about too many men being batshit when it comes to sex. Those same prison dudes that will rape a man and say they aren't gay are the same ones that will kill a dude for being out and gay. Shit they may even rape a child. Just a warped sense of sexual entitlement.

As for El, I would like to think he was safe but given his good looks, being used to abuse during his childhood, and the way most prison rapists think....I find it hard to believe nothing ever happened to him whether he was in or out of the "celebrity" wing of the prison.

petes2 said:

brooksie said:

Well he was put in the celeb part of the jail, but there's plenty of ways around that starting w/ guards themselves. He said a guard picked him out of a chow line, made him sing (he chose Rhythm ), and then dogged him in front of everybody....that's not a good thing!

El's a purty little yella guy but hella tough (see that Quik vid for how he fronted a much bigger dude...who backed down) so I think he could at least give a good fight if pushed. However, perhaps he took the more pragmatic route and chose the right Bubba.

As I said earlier, El had several brothers do time before him, so he knew what to expect and how to roll...in theory.

IOW, do I think he escaped "unwanted attention"? ...nope.

Lots of guys outside of prison don't get enough poon and we all don't turn gay so I think the prison thing is more about an assertion of power and a part of the accepted norm. My best-friend who knows people who spent time in prison said that they just don't talk about those things when they get out. My beliefs are that Americans can't even treat each other fairly in the everyday world, you remove all rights and it's the law of the jungle.

This might sound horribly superficial, but most guys have never had a woman as hot as El De Barge! If they had a shot, who knows what might happen?! El's that purty!

Sorry, but ya know it's true!

brooksie said:

petes2 said:

Lots of guys outside of prison don't get enough poon and we all don't turn gay so I think the prison thing is more about an assertion of power and a part of the accepted norm. My best-friend who knows people who spent time in prison said that they just don't talk about those things when they get out. My beliefs are that Americans can't even treat each other fairly in the everyday world, you remove all rights and it's the law of the jungle.

This might sound horribly superficial, but most guys have never had a woman as hot as El De Barge! If they had a shot, who knows what might happen?! El's that purty!

Sorry, but ya know it's true!

Ewwww Brooksie. Damn, El look good but he aint no Paula Patton. Just sayin'

HotGritz said:

wavesofbliss said:

its worth mentioning that for centuries men had sex with other men for pleasure and women for duty and never once thought of themselves as "homosexuals" or "gays". those terms came into play with christianity and puritanism here in the states. its the rigid heterosexual ideology that makes a man or boy "automaticlly gay"if they are raped.....

just sayin.

I wouldn't blame it all on ideology but just the warped thinking of those who for a long tme have been in power and have made the rules. Why would a man think of a woman as something dutiful as opposed to pleasurable and in the same vein fault, scold and punish that woman for seeking her own sexual pleasure with another man?

I digress yet again...

Julius Ceasar once tried to make it a law that he could have sex with any woman, even the wives of other senators. Why would he do that? Some boys just want their cake and want to eat it too.

As for men throughout history not applying gay or straight titles to themselves, I think its because they never had to because they made the rules but trust and believe they have always been quick to label a woman a whore for every reason under the sun.

I go back to my original point about too many men being batshit when it comes to sex. Those same prison dudes that will rape a man and say they aren't gay are the same ones that will kill a dude for being out and gay. Shit they may even rape a child. Just a warped sense of sexual entitlement.

As for El, I would like to think he was safe but given his good looks, being used to abuse during his childhood, and the way most prison rapists think....I find it hard to believe nothing ever happened to him whether he was in or out of the "celebrity" wing of the prison.

I've also heard on the org from someone who knew the debarges that one of the brothers raped another brother. Crazy shit but when you're crazy for dominance it goes past sex. It goes to humiliation and control. Rape activists always say it's about power. Just like the rest of America. We're bombing the hell out of other countries, taking oil and justifying it because we think we have some god given right. But at the end of the day, we want total power and control.