mistatee said:

alphastreet said:

Let's reverse the roles. If MJ was being credited for setting fashion trends, you would be acting differently.

[Edited 3/3/12 8:26am]

Ehmmm, no.

You probably think I'm a blind MJ fan.
I'm not.

I just don't think Martin is right.
Madonna's music/fashion/shockvalue etc combined can not touch MJ's musical legacy. He's far too big and influencial in every way for Martin to say that MJ failed at being relevant. He doesnt have to be relevant, he is Michael Jackson!

Sorry to say but if we want to compare Madonna to someone... Let's start with Rihanna/Britney Spears/Nicki Minaj etc etc and every other popstar that is willing to follow ANY trend and fashion to stay relevant.

But it's all good. We are all tlking about this and that's just what Martin Solveig wants.

And the writer himself addresses mj's legacy is in tact and timeless.

mistatee said:

alphastreet said:

Let's reverse the roles. If MJ was being credited for setting fashion trends, you would be acting differently.

[Edited 3/3/12 8:26am]

Ehmmm, no.

You probably think I'm a blind MJ fan.
I'm not.

I just don't think Martin is right.
Madonna's music/fashion/shockvalue etc combined can not touch MJ's musical legacy. He's far too big and influencial in every way for Martin to say that MJ failed at being relevant. He doesnt have to be relevant, he is Michael Jackson!

Sorry to say but if we want to compare Madonna to someone... Let's start with Rihanna/Britney Spears/Nicki Minaj etc etc and every other popstar that is willing to follow ANY trend and fashion to stay relevant.

But it's all good. We are all tlking about this and that's just what Martin Solveig wants.

That sword cuts both ways, all of the leaks and collaborations MJ was doing in the mid to late 00s were very much trend chasing.

[Edited 3/3/12 9:35am]

robertlove said:

seeingvoices12 said:

IN the 2000's ?

That guy is an ignorant fool , Michael was not prolific thorugh out the whole 2000's because he didn't want to release shitty music like what madonna did ....shitty album after shitty album...I don't need that.

Michael released only one new album with new material in the 2000's " Invincible" , one music video " you rock my world" , and with zero promotion he sold 10 million copies ....Hagdonna cannot do that

[Edited 3/3/12 8:45am]

So what you're saying is Michael couldn't make any good music anymore?

He could only make shitty music and didn't want to release it?

I think he was busy with other stuff, that's why he didn't do it.

And saying Madonna released shitty music is just not the case, you may not like it but it wasn't shit.

No dear, that's not what I meant !

What I meant was that If MJ wanted to release an album every Year he could , but he just didn't want to release just anything to please eveyone , he is a man of quality , quality over quantity , while madonna needs to release new albums and create publicity stunts to keep herself in the news , MJ didn't need that .....

seeingvoices12 said:

robertlove said:

So what you're saying is Michael couldn't make any good music anymore?

He could only make shitty music and didn't want to release it?

I think he was busy with other stuff, that's why he didn't do it.

And saying Madonna released shitty music is just not the case, you may not like it but it wasn't shit.

No dear, that's not what I meant !

What I meant was that If MJ wanted to release an album every Year he could , but he just didn't want to release just anything to please eveyone , he is a man of quality , quality over quantity , while madonna needs to release new albums and create publicity stunts to keep herself in the news , MJ didn't need that .....

You're not gonna tell me you need 8 years to make an album? Prince released 1999, Purple Rain, Parade, Sign of the times and more in less time.

MJ was having lots of troubles in '00s and wasn't probably ready for it...has nothing to do with wanting to release only quality.

To say MJ did not use the media when convenient is fucking bullshit okay? I may be a fan and care about him like family, but to sugarcoat his flaws? I don't think so. If you're going to argue why Michael is better than Madonna, you better have some better points than that shit.

Oh and MJ could have released music, but he and/or the record label didn't, it is what it is now.

[Edited 3/3/12 10:31am]

PatrickS77 said:

kenkamken said:

Move to MJ thread

Fuck you! This is also a Madonna thread (whom no one minds having multiple threads). Fuck that damn sticky thread. If there is a certain topic it should be talked about in one thread and not in a thread, which is all over the place. And fuck you petty people, who feel to have to "report" MJ threads. Report Madonna, Beyonce, Janet, Rihanna, Chris Brown and whoever else that has multiple threads, which no one gives a damn about.

I love you... awesome post!!!!!!!!

MadamGoodnight said:

People get so hung up on charts and who is so called relevant. How about Michael could sing while Madonna STILL can't? Chart that. What is her talent again?

Continue to drone on and on about hits and numbers regarding people with little to no talent.

Beautiful Madam good points as always!!!!!!

PANDURITO said:

He's right

He doesn't say MJ was bad. He just says Madonna has adapted well to the times. Her sound varies from the 80s to the 90s to the 00s whereas once MJ found his sound he never left it.

I don't think that's dissing MJ at all. Most artists stay true to their style

He is making a indirect jab at Michael when he implies he failed at being relevant. Like he tried to be relevant but Madonna was more successful with it. Michael took a break off from music to raise his 3 children.

I dont see how you can label someone as failing at something when they werent releasing music... I think Invincible is better than ANYTHING Madonna has released in the 00s. Not to mention he wrote and incorporated alot to it unlike Madonna who relied on gimmick producers who were current.

mjscarousal said:

PANDURITO said:

He's right

He doesn't say MJ was bad. He just says Madonna has adapted well to the times. Her sound varies from the 80s to the 90s to the 00s whereas once MJ found his sound he never left it.

I don't think that's dissing MJ at all. Most artists stay true to their style

He is making a indirect jab at Michael when he implies he failed at being relevant. Like he tried to be relevant but Madonna was more successful with it. Michael took a break off from music to raise his 3 children.

I dont see how you can label someone as failing at something when they werent releasing music... I think Invincible is better than ANYTHING Madonna has released in the 00s. Not to mention he wrote and incorporated alot to it unlike Madonna who relied on gimmick producers who were current.

Mirwais and Stuart Price were virtually unknown to the US market. No one mainstream was working with them to the best of my knowledge at the time, and some of her best work did come out of their collaborations. She only worked with Pharell and Timbaland for one album.

[Edited 3/3/12 10:38am]

RKJCNE said:

mistatee said:

Ehmmm, no.

You probably think I'm a blind MJ fan.
I'm not.

I just don't think Martin is right.
Madonna's music/fashion/shockvalue etc combined can not touch MJ's musical legacy. He's far too big and influencial in every way for Martin to say that MJ failed at being relevant. He doesnt have to be relevant, he is Michael Jackson!

Sorry to say but if we want to compare Madonna to someone... Let's start with Rihanna/Britney Spears/Nicki Minaj etc etc and every other popstar that is willing to follow ANY trend and fashion to stay relevant.

But it's all good. We are all tlking about this and that's just what Martin Solveig wants.

That sword cuts both ways, all of the leaks and collaborations MJ was doing in the mid to late 00s were very much trend chasing.

[Edited 3/3/12 9:35am]

Michael wanted to work with current producers but Michael would NEVER EVER in life make no shit ass song called Give Me All Your Love... wtf

Michael has ALWAYS worked with current producers R. Kelly, Teddy etc but Michael incoporated HIS OWN ideas and creativity UNLIKE Madonna who relied on the gimmicks and sounds of bullshit and what sales. VASTLY BIG DIFFERENCE.

mjscarousal said:

RKJCNE said:

That sword cuts both ways, all of the leaks and collaborations MJ was doing in the mid to late 00s were very much trend chasing.

[Edited 3/3/12 9:35am]

Michael would NEVER EVER in life make no shit ass song called Give Me All Your Love... wtf

[img:$uid]http://i265.pho.../img:$uid]

Terrib3Towel said:

[img:$uid]http://i265.pho.../img:$uid]

What was it? It says bandwith exceeded.

alphastreet said:

To say MJ did not use the media when convenient is fucking bullshit okay? I may be a fan and care about him like family, but to sugarcoat his flaws? I don't think so. If you're going to argue why Michael is better than Madonna, you better have some better points than that shit.

Oh and MJ could have released music, but he and/or the record label didn't, it is what it is now.

[Edited 3/3/12 10:31am]

why you are talking in that way...

Mj was like many artists , sometimes he uses the media to his benefits , BUT also he didn't need always to get the attention , he still do it today despite after three years of his death , he always get the attention , while media madonna always needs to create publicity shit..always , even before the superbowl , she created the mess against janet jackson to get the attention....do you understand now?

and about the record label he could have signed a deal if he wanted to but he didn't , he didn't want to rush things , he didn't want to release just anything , he faced many problems the trial..etc but michael never rushed things when it comes to releasing music ...

[Edited 3/3/12 10:44am]

alphastreet said:

mjscarousal said:

He is making a indirect jab at Michael when he implies he failed at being relevant. Like he tried to be relevant but Madonna was more successful with it. Michael took a break off from music to raise his 3 children.

I dont see how you can label someone as failing at something when they werent releasing music... I think Invincible is better than ANYTHING Madonna has released in the 00s. Not to mention he wrote and incorporated alot to it unlike Madonna who relied on gimmick producers who were current.

Mirwais and Stuart Price were virtually unknown to the US market. No one mainstream was working with them to the best of my knowledge at the time, and some of her best work did come out of their collaborations. She only worked with Pharell and Timbaland for one album.

[Edited 3/3/12 10:38am]

But main audiences would never know that because she released the gimmick mess as SINGLES which is the MAIN point. I still dont think what anything Madonna has released this past decade is something I would define as spetacular. Her best material to me is 90s. This past decade Madonna has cared about gimmicks and not true artistry and if you want to be indenial about it so be it..

My thing is this .. Madonna would NEVER release a song or even attempt a neo soul style song like Butterflies and RELEASE IT AS A SINGLE. Cause TRUST ME and you can take this to the bank, if Michael just soley cared about chart positions he would have NEVER released that especially when their were more radio friendly songs like Heartbreaker, Invincible etc.

I thought Invincible while not Michaels best was alot more creative with collabs and songs.. then what all Madonna has done... not to mention Michael still sounds amazing on it.

[Edited 3/3/12 10:47am]

robertlove said:

seeingvoices12 said:

No dear, that's not what I meant !

What I meant was that If MJ wanted to release an album every Year he could , but he just didn't want to release just anything to please eveyone , he is a man of quality , quality over quantity , while madonna needs to release new albums and create publicity stunts to keep herself in the news , MJ didn't need that .....

You're not gonna tell me you need 8 years to make an album? Prince released 1999, Purple Rain, Parade, Sign of the times and more in less time.

MJ was having lots of troubles in '00s and wasn't probably ready for it...has nothing to do with wanting to release only quality.

It has a lot to do with choosing quality over quantity. Have you ever tried to find any outtakes and unreleased materials of MJ? And I wonder why you brought Prince into the conversation when it's obvious to me that OP's comparing MJ to Madonna?

It doesn't sound right to say MJ didn't release album because he wasn't quite "ready". It's pretty evident between Invincible and the Trial period, he was more focused on other projects such as films, and he did want to spend much time with his kids. After the trial, I think anyone with half a brain should know that US market wasn't going to welcome any album or project by MJ right away. He had to wait and he did.

[Edited 3/3/12 11:19am]

[Edited 3/3/12 11:53am]

mjscarousal said:

RKJCNE said:

That sword cuts both ways, all of the leaks and collaborations MJ was doing in the mid to late 00s were very much trend chasing.

[Edited 3/3/12 9:35am]

Michael wanted to work with current producers but Michael would NEVER EVER in life make no shit ass song called Give Me All Your Love... wtf

Michael has ALWAYS worked with current producers R. Kelly, Teddy etc but Michael incoporated HIS OWN ideas and creativity UNLIKE Madonna who relied on the gimmicks and sounds of bullshit and what sales. VASTLY BIG DIFFERENCE.

Emancipation89 said:

It doesn't sound right to say MJ didn't release album because he wasn't quite "ready". It's pretty evident between Invincible and the Trial period, he was more focused on other projects such as films, and he did want to spend much time with his kids. After the trial, I think anyone with half a brain should know that US market wasn't going to welcome any album or project by MJ right away. He had to wait and he did.

[Edited 3/3/12 11:19am]

Yes.
The impression is that people do not know what life events occurred MJ in 2003-2005. After this humiliation and whipping the world, he needed to find the strength to just continue to live ... forget about creativity

MJ, by the way, has a career record of longevity: five decades, he had a single or an album - № 1 Billboard: 60s - I want you back, 70s, 80s, 90s - a few; 00's - Invincible.

not to mention Michael still sounds amazing on it.

Yes, his voice sounded good, but the album was weak, weaker than Madonna's albums from the 00's, well, except for hard candy, of course

RKJCNE said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael wanted to work with current producers but Michael would NEVER EVER in life make no shit ass song called Give Me All Your Love... wtf

Michael has ALWAYS worked with current producers R. Kelly, Teddy etc but Michael incoporated HIS OWN ideas and creativity UNLIKE Madonna who relied on the gimmicks and sounds of bullshit and what sales. VASTLY BIG DIFFERENCE.

MadamGoodnight said:

People get so hung up on charts and who is so called relevant. How about Michael could sing while Madonna STILL can't? Chart that. What is her talent again?

Continue to drone on and on about hits and numbers regarding people with little to no talent.

I've been at the Dangerous tour in Brazil and I hadn't the chance 2 see him singing

go2theMax said:

MadamGoodnight said:

People get so hung up on charts and who is so called relevant. How about Michael could sing while Madonna STILL can't? Chart that. What is her talent again?

Continue to drone on and on about hits and numbers regarding people with little to no talent.

I've been at the Dangerous tour in Brazil and I hadn't the chance 2 see him singing

The FACT of the matter is... He CAN sing. Madonna CANT

I dont see whats so hard to understand

mjscarousal said:

go2theMax said:

I've been at the Dangerous tour in Brazil and I hadn't the chance 2 see him singing

The FACT of the matter is... He CAN sing. Madonna CANT

I dont see whats so hard to understand

if one can sing one should sing

go2theMax said:

mjscarousal said:

The FACT of the matter is... He CAN sing. Madonna CANT

I dont see whats so hard to understand

if one can sing one should sing

He DID... whats your point

go2theMax said:

MadamGoodnight said:

People get so hung up on charts and who is so called relevant. How about Michael could sing while Madonna STILL can't? Chart that. What is her talent again?

Continue to drone on and on about hits and numbers regarding people with little to no talent.

I've been at the Dangerous tour in Brazil and I hadn't the chance 2 see him singing

Do not exaggerate.

Dangerous tour was at least 60% livе.

Wanna Be Startin` Somethin
I Just Can`t Stop Loving You
Human Nature
She's Out Of My Life
J5 part
Billie Jean
Beat it

These songs were all live. Some of the other - in part

mjscarousal said:

go2theMax said:

if one can sing one should sing

He DID... whats your point

not in the concert I went and pay big money 2 watch the guy lip-syncing all the way through...he came here in october/1993. Madonna came right after with the Girlie Show, in november...she doesn't have a better voice than him 4 sure...but damned she sang at least half of the show.

go2theMax said:

mjscarousal said:

He DID... whats your point

not in the concert I went and pay big money 2 watch the guy lip-syncing all the way through...he came here in october/1993. Madonna came right after with the Girlie Show, in november...she doesn't have a better voice than him 4 sure...but damned she sang at least half of the show.

Thats a FUCKING LIE. Michael sung 80 percent of Dangerous live. The day Madonna EVER sings live Pigs will start flying from the skies and grass will grow purple.

LiLi1992 said:

go2theMax said:

I've been at the Dangerous tour in Brazil and I hadn't the chance 2 see him singing

Do not exaggerate.

Dangerous tour was at least 60% livе.

Wanna Be Startin` Somethin
I Just Can`t Stop Loving You
Human Nature
She's Out Of My Life
J5 part
Billie Jean
Beat it

These songs were all live. Some of the other - in part

Surely they were NOT in the concert I attended! People left the stadium disappointed with the lip-syncing and the time long breaks between the sets..sometimes he finished a set and would come back like 15 minutes later to continue the...lip-syncing. I was disappointed. Dangerous was the first MJ album that I bought..I was 14 and became a fan right away...I atill am, but the fact is that I watched him lip-syncing an entire show!!

go2theMax said:

mjscarousal said:

He DID... whats your point

not in the concert I went and pay big money 2 watch the guy lip-syncing all the way through...he came here in october/1993. Madonna came right after with the Girlie Show, in november...she doesn't have a better voice than him 4 sure...but damned she sang at least half of the show.

It is sad that those are the standards that modern singers are judged by.