PlayboyOriginal said:

If there is "alot to discuss" about Jermaine then why don't you? Coming into this thread with juvenile comments like "crack is wack" due to your lack of maturity and insecurity instead of discussing Jermaine's talent truly shows the FLAW in your ENTIRE argument.

LMAO @ people paroling the org looking for attention in any Jackson related topic. SMDH What a petty life?

[Edited 2/26/12 10:36am]

I'm only gonna say this once and then I'm done with this.

You started it, wanting to get a rise out of the fans. Well, you got it. And now you're goin' around saying the fans are pathetic? No, they're devoted, just about as much as anyfan on this site is to Prince himself. And your behaviour is very rude and troll-ish in this respect, despite the fact I do like your posts sometimes.

Jermaine deserves to have a thread without too much mention or comparison to his brother Michael.

Let's stop the nonsense, please.

Timmy84 said:

And here's a Syreeta cut he produced:

(An old J5 cut that Jermaine almost turned into something close to Marvin - in the backgrounds which he does all of them, while Syreeta adds her touch to it).

Jermaine's best work was with Motown obviously.

Thank you very much for this gem! What a great remake. Beautiful production and background vocals by Jermaine and Syreeta's voice is just heaven. I am actually still having chills even after I'm finished listening.

manthevan said:

Timmy84 said:

And here's a Syreeta cut he produced:

(An old J5 cut that Jermaine almost turned into something close to Marvin - in the backgrounds which he does all of them, while Syreeta adds her touch to it).

Jermaine's best work was with Motown obviously.

Thank you very much for this gem! What a great remake. Beautiful production and background vocals by Jermaine and Syreeta's voice is just heaven. I am actually still having chills even after I'm finished listening.

Ain't it great?

Timmy84 said:

Keeping it Jermaine, I do think he's underrated as far as bass playing, vocals and even production work:

(I think Bobby Brown swagger jacked this song's melody for "Girlfriend" )

Just wished he had done more of that. Hell I wished all the other Jackson brothers would've done more to prove their talents. If I was as talented as Jermaine was or is, I wouldn't have ridden on someone's "coattails". Just saying.

But who really knows?

Anyways:

And here's a Syreeta cut he produced:

(An old J5 cut that Jermaine almost turned into something close to Marvin - in the backgrounds which he does all of them, while Syreeta adds her touch to it).

Jermaine's best work was with Motown obviously.

Some nice cuts you've posted Timmy.

I hope one day Jermaine can step back and tell us how did it all go wrong, that is if he sees it that way. The man definitely had the chops for playing the bass, producing, and songwriting. I don't know... the failed attempt to "crossover" or constantly measuring his success or the lack their of by his sibling's standard, appears to have left him unmovtivated to stand on his own. It's kind of a mystery...

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Keeping it Jermaine, I do think he's underrated as far as bass playing, vocals and even production work:

(I think Bobby Brown swagger jacked this song's melody for "Girlfriend" )

Just wished he had done more of that. Hell I wished all the other Jackson brothers would've done more to prove their talents. If I was as talented as Jermaine was or is, I wouldn't have ridden on someone's "coattails". Just saying.

But who really knows?

Anyways:

And here's a Syreeta cut he produced:

(An old J5 cut that Jermaine almost turned into something close to Marvin - in the backgrounds which he does all of them, while Syreeta adds her touch to it).

Jermaine's best work was with Motown obviously.

Some nice cuts you've posted Timmy.

I hope one day Jermaine can step back and tell us how did it all go wrong, that is if he sees it that way. The man definitely had the chops for playing the bass, producing, and songwriting. I don't know... the failed attempt to "crossover" or constantly measuring his success or the lack their of by his sibling's standard, appears to have left him unmovtivated to stand on his own. It's kind of a mystery...

I personally think Jermaine's attempt to crossover like Ray Parker, Jr. (because he's the closest one I could relate to Jermaine though Jermaine had a way better voice, way better lmao) was where he went wrong... he ain't pop, he's straight up R&B. "Don't Take It Personal" was his last classic.

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

Some nice cuts you've posted Timmy.

I hope one day Jermaine can step back and tell us how did it all go wrong, that is if he sees it that way. The man definitely had the chops for playing the bass, producing, and songwriting. I don't know... the failed attempt to "crossover" or constantly measuring his success or the lack their of by his sibling's standard, appears to have left him unmovtivated to stand on his own. It's kind of a mystery...

I personally think Jermaine's attempt to crossover like Ray Parker, Jr. (because he's the closest one I could relate to Jermaine though Jermaine had a way better voice, way better lmao) was where he went wrong... he ain't pop, he's straight up R&B. "Don't Take It Personal" was his last classic.

I can understand that but damn you realize, "that didn't not work" and to go back and continue doing what did work for you. Of course that speaking from someone looking out... I don't know strange.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

I personally think Jermaine's attempt to crossover like Ray Parker, Jr. (because he's the closest one I could relate to Jermaine though Jermaine had a way better voice, way better lmao) was where he went wrong... he ain't pop, he's straight up R&B. "Don't Take It Personal" was his last classic.

I can understand that but damn you realize, "that didn't not work" and to go back and continue doing what did work for you. Of course that speaking from someone looking out... I don't know strange.

Right. I don't know where went wrong... Not everybody can cross over from R&B to pop that easy.

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

I can understand that but damn you realize, "that didn't not work" and to go back and continue doing what did work for you. Of course that speaking from someone looking out... I don't know strange.

Right. I don't know where went wrong... Not everybody can cross over from R&B to pop that easy.

Jermaine hasn't been the only causality in artist/musicians trying to go "mainstream", a word and a philosophy I have utter contempt for. I would think if all else failed he could've had a career behind the scenes, Lord knows his résumé proved he had the chops.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. I don't know where went wrong... Not everybody can cross over from R&B to pop that easy.

Jermaine hasn't been the only causality in artist/musicians trying to go "mainstream", a word and a philosophy I have utter contempt for. I would think if all else failed he could've had a career behind the scenes, Lord knows his résumé proved he had the chops.

TD3 said:

I hope one day Jermaine can step back and tell us how did it all go wrong, that is if he sees it that way. The man definitely had the chops for playing the bass, producing, and songwriting. I don't know... the failed attempt to "crossover" or constantly measuring his success or the lack their of by his sibling's standard, appears to have left him unmovtivated to stand on his own. It's kind of a mystery...

Supposedly, Jermaine was fired and blacklisted by Clive Davis because of the Word 2 The Badd mess. I don't know if that's true or not. Babyface, LA Reid, Daryl Simmons, and Left Eye (from TLC) were co-writers of the song with Jermaine, and it didn't seem to effect them any. T-Boz sung background on it also.

It's amazing how Jermaine's went from this:

to this:

^^The song in the Soul Train video was produced by Stevie Wonder. I think there is an earlier unreleased version by the Jackson 5.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. I don't know where went wrong... Not everybody can cross over from R&B to pop that easy.

Jermaine hasn't been the only causality in artist/musicians trying to go "mainstream", a word and a philosophy I have utter contempt for. I would think if all else failed he could've had a career behind the scenes, Lord knows his résumé proved he had the chops.

JMHO, but I think it was reuniting w/ his family at Motown 25 which was the turning point for Jermaine. In theory, this should have been ideal both professionally and personally, but it clearly wasn't. Thru the 9 or so years he'd been estranged from them, he had to develop himself and his skills at a place (Motown) where he didn't get much support and one where he had no history (Arista) but he managed to do so. Jermaine's post J5 career was definitely nothing to sneeze at by 1983. Not only were Switch and Debarge his discoveries/proteges by 1983, he helped blow Whitney up later at Arista. No small feats...in addition to his own work, IMHO.

What I find ironic here is that Whitney managed to be launched into the mainstream, but somehow Jermaine couldn't be even tho he was a major factor in her initial success (IMHO). Add that to MJ being able to massively crossover and I can kind of see where he might be confused/angry/envious. Relatively few people want to be stuck in a small box, esp. if there's far greater reward for those who are not, so anger/envy might have played a role in his eventually just saying "meh".

I don't understand the family dynamic here, but there's definitely something about rejoining his brothers that has some negative affect on his being continually proactive in his career. Of course, that didn't happen overnight...he was active until the late 80s and doing good stuff, but there was some definite turning point where he seems to have lost his direction as an individual artist.

For the record, I never believed the blackballing story. Jermaine's career at the time of "Word to the Badd" was quite good overall. Besides, how many times did that even get spun? They yanked it pretty fast IIRC, but still played his other stuff after that, so....?

Great thread. Jermaine is very talented and underrated as an artist

brooksie said:

TD3 said:

Jermaine hasn't been the only causality in artist/musicians trying to go "mainstream", a word and a philosophy I have utter contempt for. I would think if all else failed he could've had a career behind the scenes, Lord knows his résumé proved he had the chops.

JMHO, but I think it was reuniting w/ his family at Motown 25 which was the turning point for Jermaine. In theory, this should have been ideal both professionally and personally, but it clearly wasn't. Thru the 9 or so years he'd been estranged from them, he had to develop himself and his skills at a place (Motown) where he didn't get much support and one where he had no history (Arista) but he managed to do so. Jermaine's post J5 career was definitely nothing to sneeze at by 1983. Not only were Switch and Debarge his discoveries/proteges by 1983, he helped blow Whitney up later at Arista. No small feats...in addition to his own work, IMHO.

What I find ironic here is that Whitney managed to be launched into the mainstream, but somehow Jermaine couldn't be even tho he was a major factor in her initial success (IMHO). Add that to MJ being able to massively crossover and I can kind of see where he might be confused/angry/envious. Relatively few people want to be stuck in a small box, esp. if there's far greater reward for those who are not, so anger/envy might have played a role in his eventually just saying "meh".

I don't understand the family dynamic here, but there's definitely something about rejoining his brothers that has some negative affect on his being continually proactive in his career. Of course, that didn't happen overnight...he was active until the late 80s and doing good stuff, but there was some definite turning point where he seems to have lost his direction as an individual artist.

For the record, I never believed the blackballing story. Jermaine's career at the time of "Word to the Badd" was quite good overall. Besides, how many times did that even get spun? They yanked it pretty fast IIRC, but still played his other stuff after that, so....?

Neither have I. Mr. Davis may be a slimball, but I think its highly unlikely he or anyone else was handwringing over any issue Jermaine had with he brother. I think most chalked it up to Jermaine being jealous of his brother's success. Like marriage, family issues are best left to them to figure out and deal with.

As I mentioned "crossingover" can be tricky and in Houston's case her career hadn't been established yet. I know his personal life was a hot mess. All the Jackson men with the exception of Marlon personal lives were a hot mess... it appears (again looking from the outside) it was one of the causes that made them all stumble professionally.

brooksie said:

TD3 said:

Jermaine hasn't been the only causality in artist/musicians trying to go "mainstream", a word and a philosophy I have utter contempt for. I would think if all else failed he could've had a career behind the scenes, Lord knows his résumé proved he had the chops.

JMHO, but I think it was reuniting w/ his family at Motown 25 which was the turning point for Jermaine. In theory, this should have been ideal both professionally and personally, but it clearly wasn't. Thru the 9 or so years he'd been estranged from them, he had to develop himself and his skills at a place (Motown) where he didn't get much support and one where he had no history (Arista) but he managed to do so. Jermaine's post J5 career was definitely nothing to sneeze at by 1983. Not only were Switch and Debarge his discoveries/proteges by 1983, he helped blow Whitney up later at Arista. No small feats...in addition to his own work, IMHO.

What I find ironic here is that Whitney managed to be launched into the mainstream, but somehow Jermaine couldn't be even tho he was a major factor in her initial success (IMHO). Add that to MJ being able to massively crossover and I can kind of see where he might be confused/angry/envious. Relatively few people want to be stuck in a small box, esp. if there's far greater reward for those who are not, so anger/envy might have played a role in his eventually just saying "meh".

I don't understand the family dynamic here, but there's definitely something about rejoining his brothers that has some negative affect on his being continually proactive in his career. Of course, that didn't happen overnight...he was active until the late 80s and doing good stuff, but there was some definite turning point where he seems to have lost his direction as an individual artist.

For the record, I never believed the blackballing story. Jermaine's career at the time of "Word to the Badd" was quite good overall. Besides, how many times did that even get spun? They yanked it pretty fast IIRC, but still played his other stuff after that, so....?

Good point, he did have some ballads playing on R&B radio after WTTB was yanked. I now think Jermaine quit on his own accord. And it may have to do with the changes in the music industry. Plus Arista was a good label for him for a while but they didn't fully support him either. I just don't think Jermaine was smart in his career choices... especially after 1984.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

JMHO, but I think it was reuniting w/ his family at Motown 25 which was the turning point for Jermaine. In theory, this should have been ideal both professionally and personally, but it clearly wasn't. Thru the 9 or so years he'd been estranged from them, he had to develop himself and his skills at a place (Motown) where he didn't get much support and one where he had no history (Arista) but he managed to do so. Jermaine's post J5 career was definitely nothing to sneeze at by 1983. Not only were Switch and Debarge his discoveries/proteges by 1983, he helped blow Whitney up later at Arista. No small feats...in addition to his own work, IMHO.

What I find ironic here is that Whitney managed to be launched into the mainstream, but somehow Jermaine couldn't be even tho he was a major factor in her initial success (IMHO). Add that to MJ being able to massively crossover and I can kind of see where he might be confused/angry/envious. Relatively few people want to be stuck in a small box, esp. if there's far greater reward for those who are not, so anger/envy might have played a role in his eventually just saying "meh".

I don't understand the family dynamic here, but there's definitely something about rejoining his brothers that has some negative affect on his being continually proactive in his career. Of course, that didn't happen overnight...he was active until the late 80s and doing good stuff, but there was some definite turning point where he seems to have lost his direction as an individual artist.

For the record, I never believed the blackballing story. Jermaine's career at the time of "Word to the Badd" was quite good overall. Besides, how many times did that even get spun? They yanked it pretty fast IIRC, but still played his other stuff after that, so....?

Good point, he did have some ballads playing on R&B radio after WTTB was yanked. I now think Jermaine quit on his own accord. And it may have to do with the changes in the music industry. Plus Arista was a good label for him for a while but they didn't fully support him either. I just don't think Jermaine was smart in his career choices... especially after 1984.

This is a very good point. It wasn't all in his hands either....it rarely is when an artist suddenly seems to fall off, private drama aside! Conventional RnB started really changing at that point...about 89-90 or so. Certain styles were being weeded out. Softer type ballads were giving way to the harder edged stuff, so Jermaine was also in a bad time for his style of singing (this was also true of El DeBarge).

"Word to the Badd" was something of a blip on the radar screen IIRC. It was more talked about than actually heard.

brooksie said:

Jermaine was also in a bad time for his style of singing (this was also true of El DeBarge).

There was a album back in the 80's that I really liked by him and no I don't remember which one it is. Great ballads on there too. I think he stands as his own. Oh the album was called Precious Moments

[Edited 2/28/12 18:36pm]

MickyDolenz said:

brooksie said:

Jermaine was also in a bad time for his style of singing (this was also true of El DeBarge).

Yes, I've seen this pic. It was a pleasant surprise. It's good to see Eldra rebuilding bridges and meeting up positive w/ people from his past. Jermaine really dug the whole Switch/DeBarge thing and fostered them along, so it's nice to see them together in more recent times.

People can say what they wanna about Jermaine, but he had/has a good ear. It's to his credit that he "discovered" them.

Golly Jackie looks great!

[Edited 3/3/12 3:45am]

Just musing here, but I've always wondered why Randy didn't do more outside work? It used to be said that he was a gifted percussionist and based on what I hear in their work as The Jacksons, I believe it. So why didn't he venture out more?

Then there's Tito and Jackie. Jackie has a BEAUTIFUL voice and could have gone for a post Motown solo career, IMHO. It's amazing that such a nice voice didn't get much play.

Now Tito's the exception. He does actually have a career outside of the Jackson's universe as a blues guitarist. Tho it's on a far smaller scale than one would usually associate w/ the Jacksons, it's right for a talented guitarist that wants to be heard w/o screaming fans. I doubt most loyal Jacksons fans are big bluesheads! I'm very happy for him and he seems happy doing his thing.

I finally watched these clips

Miss Ross was being such a bitch...I bet Michael was amused

Michael in Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming at the Victory tour was so amazing, I'm really love with this song.

Don't Take It Personal is sung really well. To say Jermaine is not talented is a lie.