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Reply #30 posted 02/09/12 10:03am

vainandy

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MidniteMagnet said:

I think it's mainly religious people who have a problem with it. Although, if Jesus' corpse flew back to Earth and he said he was cool with homosexuality, millions of his followers would suddenly be fine with it. Others are just disgusted by the thought of it. I'm disgusted by seafood but I'll still be friends with people who eat it. It has nothing to do with me. Sexuality should be the same way. What does me fucking my boyfriend in our bedroom have to do with you??

I think religious people are only a small segment of people who have a problem with it. The largest part of people who have a problem with it, are just assholes who want to hate gay people because the assholes are trash and want to feel that someone is beneath them. It's a form of entertainment for them. I mean, how many religious folks drive around gay clubs and throw bottles or go out looking for gay people to bash? Hell, just look at the homophobic lyrics in shit hop music and Lord knows those folks ain't religious. They're just trash, that's all.

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #31 posted 02/09/12 3:42pm

Alasseon

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leecappella said:



Alasseon said:


Okay. I may be opening a can of worms, but I'm just trying to get my head around this. It's 2012. Not 1912. We've had gay people in the arts since forever. We have many gay people who are out and nobody cares. So where does this intolerance for gay people come from? Is it for all gay people? Or just gay men? What is it about gay people that makes people go crazy?


I'm from NYC so they are like, everywhere, and for the most part no one cares one way or the other. But for the haters, are they all stupid? Can we chalk it up to worldwide ignorance? Or is there another dynamic out there? Insecurity? Disgust? Religion? I don't think it's a "preference" no matter what any Hollywood actors may say. You're born how you are born. Last week, I showed someone the Prince concert from '85, the Purple Rain tour. You know the one. The one where Prince was a searingly-hot talent at the peak of his powers. The first thing she said to me within 10 seconds of watching it was: "Is he a faggot?" WTF. So I'm hoping that people who happen to be gay, perhaps can tell us from their side, why they think that violence against gays seems to have skyrocketed in the years since Bowie and company blazed across the sky. The It Gets Better campaign is brilliant, but I never, ever would have thought we would have needed it in the 21st Century.




Well, there's more than just one reason why violence against gays is still an issue.




RELIGION



Some (if not most) people were raised and taught that homosexuals are people who live in direct opposition to what God intended. As a result, these people believe it's wrong. If one's faith is based on the Christian bible and they are serious about their faith, they will quote you the bible where it says that homosexuals should be put to death. Of course, in my estimated opinion and study, I find that people don't really understand what the bible verses they quote really mean in context. In fact, bible quoters are seemingly unconcerned about context when it comes to the gay issue. So, if you've been preached to or heard a sermon on homosexuality and how homosexuals were put to death then, as someone growing up hearing this, you may be inclined to "correct" a gay person via verbal abuse or physical abuse believing they are doing God's will. It's rather ironic because the true message of Jesus is missed in the actions of a lot of Christians. Love thy neighbor as thyself is Jesus' one and only Law. Violence against a homosexual is in violation of this Law. If you're a Christian and you're not treating others (including gay people) the way you would want to be treated, then you are breaking the one Law that justifies you before God. According to the bible, those who break this Law face temporary punishment. Sorry! Eternal punisment is not a teaching of the original bible. Just modern bibles. I ask any non-gay person here, how would you want to be treated if you were gay? Would you want the verbal and physical abuse? If not, don't do what you would not want done to you.




IT'S GROSS!



Another reason i think violence exists towards us is because some people find the very thought of two same gendered persons being intimate (whether sexual or not) as being gross. Interestingly enough, a good majority of straight men find two women together okay, but not two males. This has much to do, I think, with the fact that the straight males like women, so it's okay with them. Does this not seem a bit unfair and unjust for gay males? If homosexuality is gross to you, that's fine. We all have things we believe to be gross. Gross does not always equal wrong. Obviously not, since some straight males are okay with two women together. Whoever feels that way needs to really look inside themselves for fairness and justice. I like what Whoopi Goldberg says, "If you think gay relationships are wong, don't get in one!" LOL. Funny, yet true. I believe in everyone's right to express their opinion, but there's a way to do it in a nice manner without coming across as a jerk.




GAY MEN ARE EASY TARGETS



I also feel like some straight males believe gay men to be easy prey. Gay men, in general, are stereotypically looked at as if they were of the weaker sex. As a result, making fun of us verbally or physically (sometimes leading to harm) appears like an easy and attractive task by trouble seekers who have nothing better to do with their time if they happen to see a gay man or group of gay males when they're out and about. Yes, in some ways, gay males are like girls, but do not be fooled. Some gay men can kick a straight man's butt. Of course, that fact is not found out until the troublemaker attempts to mess with what appearst to be a weak gay male.




IGNORANCE



The less someone knows about gay people, the more their minds have the freedom to make up all kinds of imaginations regarding us. What they think is set in their minds and they retrieve what they think from their minds as they are face to face with a gay person. Verbalizing what they have in their minds. And, they think they sound smart doing it. LOL. Yes! They actually believe everything they think is correct about gay people and that it justifies their mistreatment of us. One example of ignorance would be for a black man who hates being called the "N" word to talk aobut a gay man by calling him the "F" word. Classic example of ignorance because if you can be a black man who calls a gay man the "F" word, you are implying, unconsciously, that you don't mind being called the "N" word. If you don't like being called the "N" word, why are you calling a gay man the "F" word?




SELF HATRED



Sometimes, when a man beats up a gay man, he is beating up himself. That is because he's gay, but does not want to be and he takes his frustration out on another gay man that is not himself. In some instances, beating up a gay man is a hope to prove to the gay man in denial that he is a real man, not a gay man. Hatred of self manifests itself in abuse of other gay men by the self denying gay man. Whether verbal or physical abuse.



For now, that's all I can think of to answer your question:)


[Edited 2/8/12 16:56pm]


[Edited 2/8/12 17:00pm]

[Edited 2/8/12 17:04pm]




Wow. Thank you for the insight. As a teen I read about an author who in the 1950's was so distraught about being gay that he underwent electroshock treatment to "cure" himself of homosexuality.

The religious folks who claim to pray the gay away are in a losing battle to trump biology with theology.

One of the first jobs I had was in an antique store whose entire staff was gay males, and they never hit on me or tried to "recruit" me. In fact, one of them was so goddamn buff he looked like Barishnikov. Another gay person in my early life was one of my mentors in grammar school. He was also a writer and had me read out a play he had written where the lead character was a gay teen struggling to accept who he was and what he was living for. I could understand all of the words as I read them out but I couldn't really appreciate the depth of the feeling since I was just a kid. The most I ever take from all of this is that gay people are people first and gay second or third on the list of what defines them as human beings. There is no one box to put them all in, no stereotype that fits everyone in the group, and I feel that if people just knew that gay people are not sub-human it would go a long way to making this a better place. God. I sound like a PSA, but we're talking about 5 to 10 percent of humanity, right? I mean if Darth Cheney can make his peace with it, how bad could it be?
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Reply #32 posted 02/10/12 2:14pm

PDogz

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ISF said:

I think homosexuality is wrong, and it disgusts me.

And some people hate, and are disgusted by, people from the Caribbean. But that doesn't make it right, nor particularly smart.

"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #33 posted 02/10/12 2:52pm

klick2me

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I haven't seen this video so I couldn't comment on it. I have a sister, a niece and a nephew who are all gay. I love them all and couldn't see my-self without them in my life. I even have a co-worker who is a lesbian and we work together all day long each day. I love this girl and totally respect her. She has taught me so much.
However, I am Christian (which is a faith not religion) and I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But the bible doesn't teach that gay people should be put to death. My family and friend know my beliefs and respect them. As I do theirs. God is the only true judge and He loves us all the same. My wrong doing is no different then the next person. We should all respect each other.

klick
klick
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Reply #34 posted 02/10/12 2:54pm

smoothcriminal
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klick2me said:

I haven't seen this video so I couldn't comment on it. I have a sister, a niece and a nephew who are all gay. I love them all and couldn't see my-self without them in my life. I even have a co-worker who is a lesbian and we work together all day long each day. I love this girl and totally respect her. She has taught me so much. However, I am Christian (which is a faith not religion) and I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But the bible doesn't teach that gay people should be put to death. My family and friend know my beliefs and respect them. As I do theirs. God is the only true judge and He loves us all the same. My wrong doing is no different then the next person. We should all respect each other. klick

Did you SEE what happened to the other guy? lol

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Reply #35 posted 02/10/12 3:30pm

leecappella

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klick2me said:

"....I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But the bible doesn't teach that gay people should be put to death..."

As a Christian, how do you interpret Leviticus 20:13? Not trying to cause any "trouble". I like just like asking questions.

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Reply #36 posted 02/11/12 4:10pm

klick2me

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smoothcriminal12 said:



klick2me said:


I haven't seen this video so I couldn't comment on it. I have a sister, a niece and a nephew who are all gay. I love them all and couldn't see my-self without them in my life. I even have a co-worker who is a lesbian and we work together all day long each day. I love this girl and totally respect her. She has taught me so much. However, I am Christian (which is a faith not religion) and I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But the bible doesn't teach that gay people should be put to death. My family and friend know my beliefs and respect them. As I do theirs. God is the only true judge and He loves us all the same. My wrong doing is no different then the next person. We should all respect each other. klick

Did you SEE what happened to the other guy? lol



What other guy? Not sure what you mean.

klick
klick
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Reply #37 posted 02/11/12 4:13pm

smoothcriminal
12

klick2me said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Did you SEE what happened to the other guy? lol

What other guy? Not sure what you mean. klick

The one who also posted their "I'm not homophobic but I am" comment.

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Reply #38 posted 02/11/12 4:13pm

klick2me

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leecappella said:



klick2me said:


"....I do believe homosexuality is wrong. But the bible doesn't teach that gay people should be put to death..."


As a Christian, how do you interpret Leviticus 20:13? Not trying to cause any "trouble". I like just like asking questions.



Good question. It could mean spiritual death. But that scripture is old testament, which means that back then they were under the law. The new testament states we are under grace now. Our sins are forgiven if we ask for forgiveness.

klick
klick
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Reply #39 posted 02/11/12 4:17pm

klick2me

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smoothcriminal12 said:



klick2me said:


smoothcriminal12 said:


Did you SEE what happened to the other guy? lol



What other guy? Not sure what you mean. klick

The one who also posted their "I'm not homophobic but I am" comment.




No I didn't. Still not sure what your talking about. I looked at other post on this thread but can't figure out what other guy.

klick
klick
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Reply #40 posted 02/11/12 4:39pm

smoothcriminal
12

klick2me said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

The one who also posted their "I'm not homophobic but I am" comment.

No I didn't. Still not sure what your talking about. I looked at other post on this thread but can't figure out what other guy. klick

I think homosexuality is wrong, and it disgusts me. However, it is so wrong to commit crimes against the homosexual, or bully them into suicide. Just because someone is doing something that is wrong, doesn't mean they deserve to die!

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Reply #41 posted 02/11/12 4:49pm

Dewrede

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ISF said:

I think homosexuality is wrong, and it disgusts me. However, it is so wrong to commit crimes against the homosexual, or bully them into suicide. Just because someone is doing something that is wrong, doesn't mean they deserve to die!

i never expected this much ignorance , especially on this particular site

who are you to decide what is wrong

based on some man made dogma ?

disgusting

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Reply #42 posted 02/12/12 1:23pm

leecappella

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klick2me said:

leecappella said:

As a Christian, how do you interpret Leviticus 20:13? Not trying to cause any "trouble". I like just like asking questions.

Good question. It could mean spiritual death. But that scripture is old testament, which means that back then they were under the law. The new testament states we are under grace now. Our sins are forgiven if we ask for forgiveness. klick

I am aware that some Christians believe they are no longer under a law. However, it is my belief that there is still a law to follow. That law is love thy neighbor as thyself. Romans 2:13 would appear to support that belief. For if Christians are not under a law, Romans 2:13 makes no sense whatsoever. It is also my belief that you don't have to ask for forgiveness to be forgiven. I'm human. I can forgive someone without the person asking for it. Surely, God can too. And God has already done so via Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus didn't wait to see if each individual human would ask for forgiveness before he died for them. He died for humanity and took care of the sins of the world in that act of love without needing us to ask for forgiveness. Just my belief, of course:) Thanks for answering my question. I do appreciate it. Always in love, but not always in agreement!

[Edited 2/12/12 16:54pm]

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Reply #43 posted 02/12/12 2:26pm

AlexdeParis

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music

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Reply #44 posted 02/13/12 3:16am

TonyVanDam

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Alasseon said:

Okay. I may be opening a can of worms, but I'm just trying to get my head around this.

It's 2012. Not 1912.

We've had gay people in the arts since forever. We have many gay people who are out and nobody cares.

So where does this intolerance for gay people come from? Is it for all gay people? Or just gay men?

What is it about gay people that makes people go crazy?

I'm from NYC so they are like, everywhere, and for the most part no one cares one way or the other.

But for the haters, are they all stupid? Can we chalk it up to worldwide ignorance? Or is there another dynamic out there? Insecurity? Disgust? Religion?

I don't think it's a "preference" no matter what any Hollywood actors may say. You're born how you are born.

Last week, I showed someone the Prince concert from '85, the Purple Rain tour. You know the one. The one where Prince was a searingly-hot talent at the peak of his powers. The first thing she said to me within 10 seconds of watching it was: "Is he a faggot?"

WTF.

So I'm hoping that people who happen to be gay, perhaps can tell us from their side, why they think that violence against gays seems to have skyrocketed in the years since Bowie and company blazed across the sky.

The It Gets Better campaign is brilliant, but I never, ever would have thought we would have needed it in the 21st Century.

Ask the black communities of America. The level of homophobia AND transphobia there are still high. Only America's bible belt region is worse.

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Reply #45 posted 02/13/12 12:58pm

smoothcriminal
12

TonyVanDam said:

Alasseon said:

Okay. I may be opening a can of worms, but I'm just trying to get my head around this.

It's 2012. Not 1912.

We've had gay people in the arts since forever. We have many gay people who are out and nobody cares.

So where does this intolerance for gay people come from? Is it for all gay people? Or just gay men?

What is it about gay people that makes people go crazy?

I'm from NYC so they are like, everywhere, and for the most part no one cares one way or the other.

But for the haters, are they all stupid? Can we chalk it up to worldwide ignorance? Or is there another dynamic out there? Insecurity? Disgust? Religion?

I don't think it's a "preference" no matter what any Hollywood actors may say. You're born how you are born.

Last week, I showed someone the Prince concert from '85, the Purple Rain tour. You know the one. The one where Prince was a searingly-hot talent at the peak of his powers. The first thing she said to me within 10 seconds of watching it was: "Is he a faggot?"

WTF.

So I'm hoping that people who happen to be gay, perhaps can tell us from their side, why they think that violence against gays seems to have skyrocketed in the years since Bowie and company blazed across the sky.

The It Gets Better campaign is brilliant, but I never, ever would have thought we would have needed it in the 21st Century.

Ask the black communities of America. The level of homophobia AND transphobia there are still high. Only America's bible belt region is worse.

Of course, put the blame on black communities. rolleyes

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Reply #46 posted 02/13/12 2:28pm

PDogz

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Alasseon said:

We've had gay people in the arts since forever. We have many gay people who are out and nobody cares.

So where does this intolerance for gay people come from?

I can't really speak on "WHERE", but I have an opinion about "WHEN". From the 60's and throughout the 70's, things were pretty groovy and the whole Peace & Love vibe was in full effect. From my personal perspective, acceptance of alternative lifestyles was growing exponentially during that time. By the end of the 70's, very few people seemed to have much of a problem with gay people (generally speaking, and again; from my perspective). By the time the 80's rolled around, acceptance of gay culture took a turn for the worse.

Alasseon said:

Last week, I showed someone the Prince concert from '85, the Purple Rain tour. You know the one. The one where Prince was a searingly-hot talent at the peak of his powers. The first thing she said to me within 10 seconds of watching it was: "Is he a faggot?"

Hate when that happens. rolleyes

Alasseon said:

So I'm hoping that people who happen to be gay, perhaps can tell us from their side, why they think that violence against gays seems to have skyrocketed in the years since Bowie and company blazed across the sky.

In the years since Bowie and company blazed across the sky, HIV/AIDS happened (...and Homosexuality became the poster child for it).

"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #47 posted 02/13/12 3:20pm

TonyVanDam

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smoothcriminal12 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Ask the black communities of America. The level of homophobia AND transphobia there are still high. Only America's bible belt region is worse.

Of course, put the blame on black communities. rolleyes

Why the hell not?!? Keep in mind that I'm a black man myself. I know the score.

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Reply #48 posted 02/13/12 3:27pm

smoothcriminal
12

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Of course, put the blame on black communities. rolleyes

Why the hell not?!? Keep in mind that I'm a black man myself. I know the score.

It's not "just" black communities. rolleyes

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Reply #49 posted 02/13/12 9:05pm

Terrib3Towel

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smoothcriminal12 said:



TonyVanDam said:




smoothcriminal12 said:



Of course, put the blame on black communities. rolleyes




Why the hell not?!? Keep in mind that I'm a black man myself. I know the score.



It's not "just" black communities. rolleyes



You're right it's not only the black communities, but it's a fact that the black community is very homophobic. That's why men are on the "down low" because they'd rather have sex with a man in secret and have a wife or girlfriend to parade around than to just be open. Black men are portrayed as overly masculine moreso than their white counterparts. Black men will always be associated with more aggression. That's just how it is. We can't be gay. The black church also plays a big part in it. Black people love their church. It's already harder for a black man in general, being gay and black is worse.
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Reply #50 posted 02/13/12 9:44pm

Tortilla

This song was really important for me growin up. Its message is still relevant.

And as far as the black community being homophobic... Yes that's true, but it's not the only community to be so.

imo...

The term "down low" gets a side-eye.
Why is it the "down low" for the black community, but simply labeled "in the closet" for every other community?

It's not the fault of black men that we're labeled as more aggressive. To accept it as the way things are is problematic.
It's like lying down and accepting reality, without trying to change it.

We can be gay, we are here. But I do agree that it isn't being addressed the way it could be.

The church is an integral part of the black community, but it's astounding how swept under the rug the issue of sexuality is. Black queers are active members of the spiritual community and to ignore that is to ignore an internal part of the person.

It's difficult (being black & gay), but it's made worse when the community will not discuss it, preferring lame labeling like "down low" and outmoded stereotypes.

imo.

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Reply #51 posted 02/13/12 10:15pm

Terrib3Towel

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Tortilla said:

This song was really important for me growin up. Its message is still relevant.

And as far as the black community being homophobic... Yes that's true, but it's not the only community to be so.

imo...

The term "down low" gets a side-eye.
Why is it the "down low" for the black community, but simply labeled "in the closet" for every other community?

It's not the fault of black men that we're labeled as more aggressive. To accept it as the way things are is problematic.
It's like lying down and accepting reality, without trying to change it.

We can be gay, we are here. But I do agree that it isn't being addressed the way it could be.

The church is an integral part of the black community, but it's astounding how swept under the rug the issue of sexuality is. Black queers are active members of the spiritual community and to ignore that is to ignore an internal part of the person.

It's difficult (being black & gay), but it's made worse when the community will not discuss it, preferring lame labeling like "down low" and outmoded stereotypes.

imo.

This is so true, have you ever seen a straight organ player? Cuz I haven't. lol

But in all seriousness, I agree with you. Homosexuality is swept under the rug a lot in the black community. It's kinda like we just just glossed over, and when it is mentioned it's in an extremely negative way. My pastor got up in church two sundays ago and told us that at one of his friend's church, their pastor had to step down because of infidelity dot dot dot with another man. When he said that a loud gasp could be heard all over the church. He then went on to talk about temptation and blah blah blah. I did some research myself and I find out that the preacher was a complete pervert, the things he did would have been wrong even if a straight person had done them to women. But did that matter? Hell no. It only mattered that his actions were with other male members of the church. I don't know if we can ever change that mentality. It's been rampant for so long..

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Reply #52 posted 02/14/12 3:33am

PDogz

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Terrib3Towel said:

This is so true, have you ever seen a straight organ player? Cuz I haven't. lol

I rarely have (just as I've rarely known a sober one), although I had a buddy once that was both (straight, and never tried any drug nor alcohol - not even to taste it. The smell was enough for him). I speak of him in past tense because he was a childhood friend of mine, my "best" friend, who passed away about 10 years ago of Sickle Cell disease. Although his main "thing" was that he was a Jazz pianist and taught music in public school, who saw playing for the church on Sunday as just another gig ($). But to be clear (...because this is The Org), I'm not even almost saying that all church organists are gay or drunks.

"There's Nothing That The Proper Attitude Won't Render Funkable!"

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Reply #53 posted 02/14/12 5:58am

TonyVanDam

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smoothcriminal12 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Why the hell not?!? Keep in mind that I'm a black man myself. I know the score.

It's not "just" black communities. rolleyes

Did you also overlook my mentioning of America's bible belt region being THE worst? rolleyes

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Reply #54 posted 02/14/12 6:00am

TonyVanDam

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Terrib3Towel said:

smoothcriminal12 said:


It's not "just" black communities. rolleyes

You're right it's not only the black communities, but it's a fact that the black community is very homophobic. That's why men are on the "down low" because they'd rather have sex with a man in secret and have a wife or girlfriend to parade around than to just be open. Black men are portrayed as overly masculine moreso than their white counterparts. Black men will always be associated with more aggression. That's just how it is. We can't be gay. The black church also plays a big part in it. Black people love their church. It's already harder for a black man in general, being gay and black is worse.

Exactly.

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Reply #55 posted 02/14/12 6:05am

Hudson

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I don't want to get eaten alive
'cause you're so dangerous
No more hearts I can trust, you see
I don't want to get eaten alive
To be eaten alive
Eaten alive
I don't ever want to be
Eaten alive
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Reply #56 posted 02/14/12 6:55am

ISF

smoothcriminal12 said:

klick2me said:

smoothcriminal12 said: What other guy? Not sure what you mean. klick

The one who also posted their "I'm not homophobic but I am" comment.

If you are talking about me....


I do not hate gays, but I find homosexuality wrong. That doesn't mean I think they should be abused, arrested etc.
I feel the same way about crack abuse. It is wrong, but I don't hate the crack addict.

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Reply #57 posted 02/14/12 6:56am

ISF

Dewrede said:

ISF said:

I think homosexuality is wrong, and it disgusts me. However, it is so wrong to commit crimes against the homosexual, or bully them into suicide. Just because someone is doing something that is wrong, doesn't mean they deserve to die!

i never expected this much ignorance , especially on this particular site

who are you to decide what is wrong

based on some man made dogma ?

disgusting

If a man has sex with a goat, and the goat does not resist, is that ok?

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Reply #58 posted 02/14/12 7:31am

NoVideo

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ISF said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

The one who also posted their "I'm not homophobic but I am" comment.

If you are talking about me....


I do not hate gays, but I find homosexuality wrong. That doesn't mean I think they should be abused, arrested etc.
I feel the same way about crack abuse. It is wrong, but I don't hate the crack addict.

I find ignorance and bigotry wrong, and for people like you who are intolerant of others, I think the problem is in your heart, not others. You like to judge, you have your own issues to deal with obviously if you equate a loving and committed relationship between two people and someone fucking a goat. It's twisted minds like yours that cause so much pain in the world. Congrats.

* * *

Prince's Classic Finally Expanded
The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue

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Reply #59 posted 02/14/12 10:43am

ISF

Of course it's not the same thing. However, I believe that homosexual sex and sex with animals are both perversions. With your logic, who is to say either is wrong?

There are people far more intolerant than myself, believe me. The vast majority of the world is against homosexuality.

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Leviticus: Faggot