He got bad press anywhere but I think some reason why European fans keep boasting about an anti-U.S. stance is because while Michael's records in the U.S. either did modestly well (compared to previous albums, mainly the trilogy of Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad and some even include Dangerous in the mix), Michael kept selling in Europe and Australasia still. But I don't think one country-based media was worse than the other one.

Timmy84 said:

He got bad press anywhere but I think some reason why European fans keep boasting about an anti-U.S. stance is because while Michael's records in the U.S. either did modestly well (compared to previous albums, mainly the trilogy of Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad and some even include Dangerous in the mix), Michael kept selling in Europe and Australasia still. But I don't think one country-based media was worse than the other one.

The U.S and british media were the worst , they are still horrible

seeingvoices12 said:

Timmy84 said:

He got bad press anywhere but I think some reason why European fans keep boasting about an anti-U.S. stance is because while Michael's records in the U.S. either did modestly well (compared to previous albums, mainly the trilogy of Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad and some even include Dangerous in the mix), Michael kept selling in Europe and Australasia still. But I don't think one country-based media was worse than the other one.

The U.S and british media were the worst , they are still horrible

Exactly.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Dren5 said:

I know they did. And a lot of the ones that didn't, were way worse in the overseas tabloid press than in the American. The British tabloids are on some other shit entirely and don't hold back on people at all. So it's weird to me that European fans always bitch about the States like all the worst shit went on here when it didn't, barring the allegations, but frankly that could've happened anywhere because all over the planet there's greedy opportunistic people.

I remember once being in a chat with a friend at the time (another American) and we were basically clusterfucked by everyone else in there about this stuff and it pissed us both off. And no matter how many times you pointed out the inaccuracies of what they were saying, they still kept right on babbling.

Yeah the European fans do like to look down their nose at you if you're from North America. But really, they were/are no better than anyone else.

Hell, I knew a girl from Germany. She's been a fan since she was a toddler and when Michael passed away, she saw people in the record store like you won't believe. She even told me some muhfugga said to her "it's cool to like Michael again", and she nearly beat the shit outta him.

Maybe it's because the European people, including Britons, most have never believed that he was a pedophile, in contrast to the Americans.
In Europe, MJ - the best selling solo artist of all time and second only after the Beatles... and where is his place in the USA? Number 10 at best??
In the U.S. loved the little Michael and Michael period "Off The Wall" - "Thriller", after then he was much more loved and respected outside the U.S., it's just an obvious truth

^ Obvious truth? Michael is as loved by people in the U.S. as he is in Europe. I don't judge it by charts or by tabloids. Like seeingvoices12 said, Michael got it as badly in the UK as he did in the U.S. as far as media coverage about his personal life. It's just that American record buyers are more FICKLE than those overseas, which can explain why Michael only performed in overseas markets for the latter half of his career.

I realy really don't know

This is fake or not...This instrumental ! maybe it's fake but I kinda like it

Dren5 said:

Swa said:

Been reading from the sidelines and here is my point of view on post 2009 fans.

I'm fine with them. I even understand them. For many fans MJ was the music of their youth and thry out grew him. It happens. Now his sudden death made them think back and maybe rediscover the music.

I'm fine with that too.

If people are jumping on a bandwagon - well better late then never. At least you'll hear more MJ music.

Fans who try to outfan another are just lame in my book. I have been a fan for decades now and don't profess to know everything (i'm only at about 99.9% ). I'm cool with people having opinions that differ to mine, cool with someone challenging me - but I ask the same respect be shown.

The only fans that irk me are the ones that will say MJ got a raw deal from the media etc etc, or say that he was the victim of wild rumours and tabloid garbage and then turn around and give the same raw deal to poople like Murray (Now I'm not defending Murray, he was guilty and was proven so) or try to talk about him faking his death etc etc. The hypocritcal fans are the ones I don't have time for - they have become their (and Mj's legacy) own worse nightmare.

Oh and for the record I am the biggest fan EVER, and you ain't bad you ain't nothing. (that's a joke folks)

You gotta be kidding me.

Most of the people who jumped on after he 'died' weren't former fans who suddenly returned to the fold; you know it and I know it - they were random people who were never into his music in the first place, and some who even used to constantly slag him off. These are all people who just heard he croaked, and once he was being mentioned everywhere (and suddenly in a positive tone) they wanted to be in on it so they bought MJ t-shirts and suddenly started claiming they were always fans but you ask them the lyrics to something like "Whatever Happens" and they'll give you the blank stare.

That's what this is about that dishonesty along with the blatant disrespect a lot of them show the actual, longstanding MJ fans. You say it's okay to have someone disagree with you, but with respect - and a lot of them don't do that. So yeah, I don't care if you think it's lame or not but I have little patience with a bunch of pushy, overbearing assholes who show up out of nowhere talking shit when they don't know shit and are pretty much trying to jump in on a trend and weren't there when things were suckass and then shit on the ones who were.

And none of this shit is an unreasonable request or unique to this particular community. The hacker community/techie folks hate it when new people who know nothing about the subject and just wanna look cool, pop up and then talk shit to them - plenty of different online communities and groups feel this way about stuff like this. And I don't think it's unjustified.

And I've been a fan for decades too. Like I said, I was born in 1981 and I've been a fan from anywhere between 2-4 years old, and I'm thirty now. So don't try that "I've been a fan for decades" bullshit on me. Come see me when you were a fan before you could even add or multiply.

Dren,

I wasn't having a go at you - so sorry if you took it that way.

All I was saying is when fans (new or old) try to outfan others to me it just ends up looking pathetic - and hey if we're honest we've all done it at one time. I understand the frustration us long time fans have felt with new fans coming in and trying to profess they know it all - a quick fact check puts them in their place.

And I think we have to realse that "fans" come in different levels - there are people who call themselves fans who just like the singles they've heard and maybe own Thriller and Dangerous to me they are casual fans. And then you have lapsed fans, and then you have fans like the majority here who have been fans since they first discovered his music (and whatever period) and stuck with it.

Sure there will be fad fans (just like people who all of a sudden loved Amy Winehouse after her death, but don't listen to her now just a few months later) they tend to come and go so soon they aren't worth the effort.

And finally - to qualify, I only mentioned my decades of being a fan to show that even life long fans still have things to learn and sometimes a new fan with a fresh take on something might help you see something in a new light.

So again - it wasn't an attack on you or any fan in here - so I apologise if you felt it was. It was just a call for everyone (and most people in here do) to listen to others opinions with respect - respect begets respect. As soon as someone fails to do that, then it's open seaon - but until then they deserve to be heard.

[Edited 1/30/12 14:53pm]

Wow I didn't even see Dren's comment, damn. But I feel where she's coming from because even though some people became fans after his death (hell some became fans during his court cases and that interview!), there were others who admitted they weren't into Michael because they believed the scandals. I mean it's cool if you wanna be a fan but don't act like you was a fan all that time when you randomly joked about Michael and accused him of bleaching his skin and molesting kids or whatnot. That's what some folks mentioned. Nothing against them being fans now but just saying, it just seems hypocritical to act like you're this fan of Michael when you either ignored him for whatever reason. That's all.

Hell to the fans who have this and still not share , why the hell they leak snippet by snippet to upset the fans , leak the whole thing or don't leak anything at all....

NOt this lame, expired old talk again , y'all

seeingvoices12 said:

NOt this lame, expired old talk again , y'all

Ain't nothing else to talk about.

Timmy84 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

NOt this lame, expired old talk again , y'all

Ain't nothing else to talk about.

oh dear timmy, I posted two videos , no one gave a fuck

Some fans are more obsessed with the man's personal life than the music ...it's ugly !

Woo, it`s pretty good tap actually.

hey, im going to see the cirque show on the 15th and latelly have been missing michael more than usual.. i have really want to indulge in all the michael concerts and interviews i can lately..

i have the following dvds from mjdaivd:

BAD Anthology(yokohoma,brisbane,live 1988 compliation,bad tour on mtv,music vids,japan report)

HIStory Anthology(HIStory Around the world vol 1,HIstory around the world vol 2, munich, bucharest)

Dangerous Anthology(Bucharest,Music Vids,Live compliation,MTV diary, Rehearsals)

dallas victory tour

and of coarse all the officail releases,

basically what im asking is if any of you know of any other good sites (besides mjdavid) also if any of you would like to list some of your favorite dvds that i should get that would greatly be appreciated..

i just really miss him

seeingvoices12 said:

I realy really don't know

This is fake or not...This instrumental ! maybe it's fake but I kinda like it

I like it too and it sounds like the kinda vibe that MJ would rock.

If it is a fake (ie, has nothing to do with MJ), it's still a very solid groove and also, very professionally mixed, so kudos to whomever made it

I get annoyed by some fake songs that are passed as Michael's.

seeingvoices12 said:

Hell to the fans who have this and still not share , why the hell they leak snippet by snippet to upset the fans , leak the whole thing or don't leak anything at all....

Sounds bad to me.

EDIT: OOPS, meant Soldier's Entrance.

[Edited 1/30/12 16:10pm]

dm3857 said:

hey, im going to see the cirque show on the 15th and latelly have been missing michael more than usual.. i have really want to indulge in all the michael concerts and interviews i can lately..

i have the following dvds from mjdaivd:

BAD Anthology(yokohoma,brisbane,live 1988 compliation,bad tour on mtv,music vids,japan report)

HIStory Anthology(HIStory Around the world vol 1,HIstory around the world vol 2, munich, bucharest)

Dangerous Anthology(Bucharest,Music Vids,Live compliation,MTV diary, Rehearsals)

dallas victory tour

and of coarse all the officail releases,

basically what im asking is if any of you know of any other good sites (besides mjdavid) also if any of you would like to list some of your favorite dvds that i should get that would greatly be appreciated..

i just really miss him

As far as the Crique show goes - I've seen it twice. My best adivce to get maximum enjoyment out of the show is to check your MJ expectations at the door. For me, the first half of the show was just a reminder that MJ was no longer here. When you're in a live environment and you hear MJ's voice you half expect him to be there. Once I mentally checked myself and tried not to do the pointless comparisson between the show and the expeirences of seeing him live I started to accept it for what it is and enjoyed it.

Would love hear what you think of it when you see it.

smoothcriminal12 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Hell to the fans who have this and still not share , why the hell they leak snippet by snippet to upset the fans , leak the whole thing or don't leak anything at all....

Sounds bad to me.

EDIT: OOPS, meant Soldier's Entrance.

[Edited 1/30/12 16:10pm]

it's fake

you guys already know if a MJ track leaks, I'm gonna know about it

seeingvoices12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Ain't nothing else to talk about.

oh dear timmy, I posted two videos , no one gave a fuck

Some fans are more obsessed with the man's personal life than the music ...it's ugly !

No, you just read whatever the fuck you wanted to, into my comments. Which is kinda retarded but you have every right to do nonsensical shit if you like.

Ellie said:

The UK & European print press is/was brutal, but the American TV reporting is a whole other kettle of fish. Our 24 hour news networks are getting bad, but never to the extent of bullshit like Court TV and Fox News which is just down right slanderous.

The American news channels suck, absolutely but the UK/European print press makes them look like they're giving MJ verbal blow-jobs, by comparison.

Like...I've seen shit from both groups, so don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

LiLi1992 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Yeah the European fans do like to look down their nose at you if you're from North America. But really, they were/are no better than anyone else.

Hell, I knew a girl from Germany. She's been a fan since she was a toddler and when Michael passed away, she saw people in the record store like you won't believe. She even told me some muhfugga said to her "it's cool to like Michael again", and she nearly beat the shit outta him.

Maybe it's because the European people, including Britons, most have never believed that he was a pedophile, in contrast to the Americans.
In Europe, MJ - the best selling solo artist of all time and second only after the Beatles... and where is his place in the USA? Number 10 at best??
In the U.S. loved the little Michael and Michael period "Off The Wall" - "Thriller", after then he was much more loved and respected outside the U.S., it's just an obvious truth

You're fucking lying. When I used to be in chats and stuff and random trolls would come in talking shit and calling him a pedophile, they'd be from all over the world, not just the United States.

But for some reason European fans are very selective when it comes to their memory of this type of thing.

Honestly, I think a lot of it is just that a lot of rabid MJ fans are weirdly possessive of the man. And a lot of them just didn't like that he didn't live in the same country or on the same continent as them so they'd slag America off. Hell, a lot would even outright say "He should just leave there - for good!", which makes no sense when, like I said before, the press overseas is actually even more abusive, and shady people can be found everywhere. Honestly I believe that if he had left America for good and stayed in any other country long enough, he would've had to deal with shit there, too.

And honestly? As many people as there are here in the U.S. who slag MJ off, there's a ton that loved him. Pretty much my entire family thinks he's badass and always has - this includes extended family like aunts and uncles. Millions of Americans, love MJ. We just aren't frenzied and obsessed and don't do weird shit like...camp outside the man's hotel room.

*low blow, but warranted based on the crap I just read in the above post*

[Edited 1/31/12 1:29am]

Militant said:

seeingvoices12 said:

I realy really don't know

This is fake or not...This instrumental ! maybe it's fake but I kinda like it

I like it too and it sounds like the kinda vibe that MJ would rock.

If it is a fake (ie, has nothing to do with MJ), it's still a very solid groove and also, very professionally mixed, so kudos to whomever made it

Honestly we won't know unless the estate comes out and confirms it's an MJ track, or some kind of vocal accompaniment to it is released. Could be (another) Malachi track, could be MJ. I don't even try to guess anymore.

I never though the day would come where I don't even bother listening to "new leaks" to see if they are fake or not. I don't even care now, not if it's going to turn out to be fake in the end. Before the death, I would get super excited over stuff like this.

Dren5 said:

Militant said:

I like it too and it sounds like the kinda vibe that MJ would rock.

If it is a fake (ie, has nothing to do with MJ), it's still a very solid groove and also, very professionally mixed, so kudos to whomever made it

Honestly we won't know unless the estate comes out and confirms it's an MJ track, or some kind of vocal accompaniment to it is released. Could be (another) Malachi track, could be MJ. I don't even try to guess anymore.

If it's an instrumental and folks are saying it's from an unreleased track, I automatically know it's fake and it's usually fans who know their way around Reason or Pro Tools and they make some BS instrumental and then splice some random MJ words in (with echo so it can sound like Michael talking in the studio )

I remember someone trying to pass one of them off as "Do You Know Where Your Children Are" some years ago THEN the song actually leaked. They'll take an unreleased MJ song title then make a wack instrumental and expect people to believe it

Folks have tried to do this with Sunset Driver, She's Not A Girl, Fever, Face, and Rolling The Dice

And I've never heard of an unreleased MJ track leaking as JUST an instrumental. Love Never Felt So Good, Carousel, Hot Street, Nightline, She's Trouble, If You Don't Love Me, For All Time, Serious Effect, and others all leaked with music and vocals

MJ fans are always scheming, that's why some of them are in legal trouble right now

bboy87 said:

Dren5 said:

Honestly we won't know unless the estate comes out and confirms it's an MJ track, or some kind of vocal accompaniment to it is released. Could be (another) Malachi track, could be MJ. I don't even try to guess anymore.

If it's an instrumental and folks are saying it's from an unreleased track, I automatically know it's fake and it's usually fans who know their way around Reason or Pro Tools and they make some BS instrumental and then splice some random MJ words in (with echo so it can sound like Michael talking in the studio )

I remember someone trying to pass one of them off as "Do You Know Where Your Children Are" some years ago THEN the song actually leaked. They'll take an unreleased MJ song title then make a wack instrumental and expect people to believe it

Folks have tried to do this with Sunset Driver, She's Not A Girl, Fever, Face, and Rolling The Dice

And I've never heard of an unreleased MJ track leaking as JUST an instrumental. Love Never Felt So Good, Carousel, Hot Street, Nightline, She's Trouble, If You Don't Love Me, For All Time, Serious Effect, and others all leaked with music and vocals

MJ fans are always scheming, that's why some of them are in legal trouble right now

I shouldn't laugh, but if they are mjjforum veterans, they had it coming!

The MJ fans who try to post fake songs or the like as leaks are just clamouring for a sense of importance in the fan community - as though "hey look what I have". People have been passing off fake tracks and the like for years, it's sadly got worse since MJ's death.

Like many I avoid most of the snippet leaks - I figure most are fake and if something real emerges I will wait for a trusted friend/fan to share.

Swa said:

The MJ fans who try to post fake songs or the like as leaks are just clamouring for a sense of importance in the fan community - as though "hey look what I have". People have been passing off fake tracks and the like for years, it's sadly got worse since MJ's death.

Like many I avoid most of the snippet leaks - I figure most are fake and if something real emerges I will wait for a trusted friend/fan to share.

I wonder who that is....

[img:$uid]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly4ekaIl551qb3obb.gif[/img:$uid]

The soundboard (beta tape audio master) for Rome 88 leaked, at least most of it

Intro

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Heartbreak Hotel

Another Part Of Me

I Just Can't Stop Loving You

She's Out My Life

I Want You Back

The Love You Save

I'll Be There

Rock With You

Human Nature

Smooth Criminal

Dirty Diana

Thriller

bboy87 said:

Dren5 said:

Honestly we won't know unless the estate comes out and confirms it's an MJ track, or some kind of vocal accompaniment to it is released. Could be (another) Malachi track, could be MJ. I don't even try to guess anymore.

If it's an instrumental and folks are saying it's from an unreleased track, I automatically know it's fake and it's usually fans who know their way around Reason or Pro Tools and they make some BS instrumental and then splice some random MJ words in (with echo so it can sound like Michael talking in the studio )

I remember someone trying to pass one of them off as "Do You Know Where Your Children Are" some years ago THEN the song actually leaked. They'll take an unreleased MJ song title then make a wack instrumental and expect people to believe it

Folks have tried to do this with Sunset Driver, She's Not A Girl, Fever, Face, and Rolling The Dice

And I've never heard of an unreleased MJ track leaking as JUST an instrumental. Love Never Felt So Good, Carousel, Hot Street, Nightline, She's Trouble, If You Don't Love Me, For All Time, Serious Effect, and others all leaked with music and vocals

MJ fans are always scheming, that's why some of them are in legal trouble right now

Yeah, true. I don't even try and guess any more though.

Remember when Prince's instrumental to "Never B Another Like Me" got leaked before the song itself and some people swore blind that it wasn't Prince and it was someone imitating his sound? And then the actual song came out and it was him. LOL. That was funny shit.