purplethunder3121 said:

badujunkie said:

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

From what I've read Elizondo was very involved with the creative process of Velvet Rope. But I wouldn't say that her career went to hell after Janet divorced him. Rather, Velvet Rope seems to be an intimate commentary on their relationship as well as other experiences Janet had.

Rene was the creative director as far as I know and may have given Janet some "song lyric ideas" that Janet later put pen to paper and that's why he got the credits on Velvet Rope but it's unclear about anything BEFORE that and that's between Rhythm Nation and Velvet Rope.

badujunkie said:

lowkey said:

it just need to be her, jimmy and terry exclusively, dont bring in no outside producers. i hope she go indy and cater to her fans like she did with the tour.

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

i dont think her career went to hell after rene, all 4 you was a big success for her. remember velvet rope got off to a slow start and alot of fans wasnt feeling it. im sorry i dont think rene created any music and i have a hard time giving that much credit to somebody who hasnt accomplished anything outside of the work his wife gave him. rene took really good pics of janet, he directed a couple of her videos but when did he make any music? also if you feel he was the creative force at what point did his involvement start? we know he wasnt part of the control album which was janet's breakthrough, he started working on visuals during RN after the music was done, those are the 2 albums that defined janet's career. if you feel he helped with the tours and behind the scenes stuff ok cool, im talking about the music.

lowkey said:

badujunkie said:

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

i dont think her career went to hell after rene, all 4 you was a big success for her. remember velvet rope got off to a slow start and alot of fans wasnt feeling it. im sorry i dont think rene created any music and i have a hard time giving that much credit to somebody who hasnt accomplished anything outside of the work his wife gave him. rene took really good pics of janet, he directed a couple of her videos but when did he make any music? also if you feel he was the creative force at what point did his involvement start? we know he wasnt part of the control album which was janet's breakthrough, he started working on visuals during RN after the music was done, those are the 2 albums that defined janet's career. if you feel he helped with the tours and behind the scenes stuff ok cool, im talking about the music.

The music is what counts. And I think Janet knows we want her to go back to her roots by now--Janet & Jam & Lewis.

As far as Rene goes, I know the fans miss him because he'd get people backstage to meet her all the time. But, musically, like lowkey said, he may have given up some ideas, but I don't think he wrote much, if at all. He produced, but I remember even Jimmy saying "I never saw him anywhere in the studio with a pen and paper..." He guided some of her visuals, and shot some of her photos, but he wasn't a Svengali by any means. And, her first post-Rene album produced her biggest first-week sales numbers ever (All For You).

SEANMAN said:

As far as Rene goes, I know the fans miss him because he'd get people backstage to meet her all the time. But, musically, like lowkey said, he may have given up some ideas, but I don't think he wrote much, if at all. He produced, but I remember even Jimmy saying "I never saw him anywhere in the studio with a pen and paper..." He guided some of her visuals, and shot some of her photos, but he wasn't a Svengali by any means. And, her first post-Rene album produced her biggest first-week sales numbers ever (All For You).

If anything indicates the fallout of her post-Velvet Rope albums is Janet had began to focus on other matters, not the lack of Rene Elizondo.

Timmy84 said:

SEANMAN said:

As far as Rene goes, I know the fans miss him because he'd get people backstage to meet her all the time. But, musically, like lowkey said, he may have given up some ideas, but I don't think he wrote much, if at all. He produced, but I remember even Jimmy saying "I never saw him anywhere in the studio with a pen and paper..." He guided some of her visuals, and shot some of her photos, but he wasn't a Svengali by any means. And, her first post-Rene album produced her biggest first-week sales numbers ever (All For You).

If anything indicates the fallout of her post-Velvet Rope albums is Janet had began to focus on other matters, not the lack of Rene Elizondo.

True.

SEANMAN said:

Timmy84 said:

If anything indicates the fallout of her post-Velvet Rope albums is Janet had began to focus on other matters, not the lack of Rene Elizondo.

True.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jam or Lewis state that Janet asked them to write the lyrics for Damita Jo for the first time in their collaboration? I'm not sure about whether or not it was that album, but I do know I read that recently. Jam & Lewis didn't really want to work on whatever album I'm thinking of if Janet didn't want to do the lyrics. It was like a WTF! moment for them.

purplethunder3121 said:

SEANMAN said:

True.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jam or Lewis state that Janet asked them to write the lyrics for Damita Jo for the first time in their collaboration? I'm not sure about whether or not it was that album, but I do know I read that recently. Jam & Lewis didn't really want to work on whatever album I'm thinking of if Janet didn't want to do the lyrics. It was like a WTF! moment for them.

Yep.

badujunkie said:

lowkey said:

it just need to be her, jimmy and terry exclusively, dont bring in no outside producers. i hope she go indy and cater to her fans like she did with the tour.

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

I feel the same way. It was OBVIOUS that Rene was the creative force behind Janet's albums. Nothing was as creative, interesting or musical after he stopped putting his imput in. I always thought that Rene did MUCH MORE than Janet gave him credit for and the only reason that she even acknowledged him in the end was because he threatened to expose her if she did not acknowledge her. For some reason, I always thought he had more control over HER than some people thought. IMO, she actually seemed a little afraid when she did interviews with her. If Rene hadn't been so blatant with his infidelity/cheating on Janet, I believe that she would have still been with him. He really did have a lot of imput on her career-lyriics, creative ideas,music, choreography, videos, IMO.

Nevermind. Not worth it. Handle 'em Sean.

purplethunder3121 said:

SEANMAN said:

True.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jam or Lewis state that Janet asked them to write the lyrics for Damita Jo for the first time in their collaboration? I'm not sure about whether or not it was that album, but I do know I read that recently. Jam & Lewis didn't really want to work on whatever album I'm thinking of if Janet didn't want to do the lyrics. It was like a WTF! moment for them.

I thought Jam and Lewis basically wrote all the lyrics AND music for the Control album. I have footage of them saying that Janet came to them, talked about what was happening in her life and then Jam and Lewis wrote the lyrics. I've always wondered why people say that Janet wrote the lyrics to that album when she didn't. Am I wrong in that assertion? I have sheet music from the album Control and Janet's name doesn't appear anywhere in the credits for lyrics or music-only Jam and Lewis are listed.

Timmy84 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

From what I've read Elizondo was very involved with the creative process of Velvet Rope. But I wouldn't say that her career went to hell after Janet divorced him. Rather, Velvet Rope seems to be an intimate commentary on their relationship as well as other experiences Janet had.

Rene was the creative director as far as I know and may have given Janet some "song lyric ideas" that Janet later put pen to paper and that's why he got the credits on Velvet Rope but it's unclear about anything BEFORE that and that's between Rhythm Nation and Velvet Rope.

I believe that Rene was the creative force behind the lyrics, videos,etc. of the Rhythm Nation, Janet, and Velvet Rope albums. Agree or disagree?

Free2BMe said:

purplethunder3121 said:

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jam or Lewis state that Janet asked them to write the lyrics for Damita Jo for the first time in their collaboration? I'm not sure about whether or not it was that album, but I do know I read that recently. Jam & Lewis didn't really want to work on whatever album I'm thinking of if Janet didn't want to do the lyrics. It was like a WTF! moment for them.

I thought Jam and Lewis basically wrote all the lyrics AND music for the Control album. I have footage of them saying that Janet came to them, talked about what was happening in her life and then Jam and Lewis wrote the lyrics. I've always wondered why people say that Janet wrote the lyrics to that album when she didn't. Am I wrong in that assertion? I have sheet music from the album Control and Janet's name doesn't appear anywhere in the credits for lyrics or music-only Jam and Lewis are listed.

jimmy jam said when janet told terry to write the songs for an album they were like wtf, she told them she didnt have nothing to write about and they told her if she dont feel like writing then they shouldnt be making an album...so that kinda tells me that janet did write on her albums, why would they react that way if they did all the writing?

Free2BMe said:

Timmy84 said:

Rene was the creative director as far as I know and may have given Janet some "song lyric ideas" that Janet later put pen to paper and that's why he got the credits on Velvet Rope but it's unclear about anything BEFORE that and that's between Rhythm Nation and Velvet Rope.

I believe that Rene was the creative force behind the lyrics, videos,etc. of the Rhythm Nation, Janet, and Velvet Rope albums. Agree or disagree?

completely disagree

^ You gotta love the bullshit lol

I think Janet will definitley drop some new music end of 2012 or early 2013 for sure. Might not be a whole album, but she'll put something out a la "Make Me"

ViintageJunkiie said:

I think Janet will definitley drop some new music end of 2012 or early 2013 for sure. Might not be a whole album, but she'll put something out a la "Make Me"

Nah I can't see her doing that... I think she's gonna go all out. She know people are anxious for SOMETHING new. And it's not a movie...lol

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I think Janet will definitley drop some new music end of 2012 or early 2013 for sure. Might not be a whole album, but she'll put something out a la "Make Me"

Nah I can't see her doing that... I think she's gonna go all out. She know people are anxious for SOMETHING new. And it's not a movie...lol

She'll put something out to hold us over but I feel like she's going to work on a movie and so like one song for the soundtrack

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Nah I can't see her doing that... I think she's gonna go all out. She know people are anxious for SOMETHING new. And it's not a movie...lol

She'll put something out to hold us over but I feel like she's going to work on a movie and so like one song for the soundtrack

She said she is... We'll find out.

Free2BMe said:

badujunkie said:

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

I feel the same way. It was OBVIOUS that Rene was the creative force behind Janet's albums. Nothing was as creative, interesting or musical after he stopped putting his imput in. I always thought that Rene did MUCH MORE than Janet gave him credit for and the only reason that she even acknowledged him in the end was because he threatened to expose her if she did not acknowledge her. For some reason, I always thought he had more control over HER than some people thought. IMO, she actually seemed a little afraid when she did interviews with her. If Rene hadn't been so blatant with his infidelity/cheating on Janet, I believe that she would have still been with him. He really did have a lot of imput on her career-lyriics, creative ideas,music, choreography, videos, IMO.

Rene helped to create some of Janet's visuals, but, like I said, he was not the Svengali that some think he was. It was Janet who was distressed by what she saw on CNN and in the newspapers about what was going on in the world, which was the nucleus behind RN. It was Janet who felt confident enough after making Poetic Justice to show her sexy side for the janet. album. It was Janet who went through a period of depression, which gave birth to The Velvet Rope. I even read where Rene said that he wrote Black Cat, which we all know is a bold-faced lie. As for Control, Janet was at a point in her life where she needed to break out. She has said time and again that, when she went to Minneapolis to work on the record, she, Jimmy and Terry wrote the bulk of the stuff together. Let's Wait Awhile was written by Jimmy, Terry, Janet and Janet's friend Melanie Andrews. When I Think of You was cowritten by Janet. Nasty, Control, etc. She wrote the lyrics to That's The Way Love Goes, while JJ/TL supplied the music. She wrote the song for her Pepsi campaign "Ask For More". She writes. She is the ultimate controlling factor of her image, music, etc.

Timmy84 said:

Nevermind. Not worth it. Handle 'em Sean.

Free2BMe said:

badujunkie said:

and Rene...i swear, how people don't acknolwedge her career went to hell right after splitting with Elizondo...obviously he was some kind of creative force in the mix, don't we feel?

isn't the velvet rope really his main vision?

I feel the same way. It was OBVIOUS that Rene was the creative force behind Janet's albums. Nothing was as creative, interesting or musical after he stopped putting his imput in. I always thought that Rene did MUCH MORE than Janet gave him credit for and the only reason that she even acknowledged him in the end was because he threatened to expose her if she did not acknowledge her. For some reason, I always thought he had more control over HER than some people thought. IMO, she actually seemed a little afraid when she did interviews with her. If Rene hadn't been so blatant with his infidelity/cheating on Janet, I believe that she would have still been with him. He really did have a lot of imput on her career-lyriics, creative ideas,music, choreography, videos, IMO.

WOW! He even did her choreography too? He must have been a certified genius with all that talent. I wonder how he's been using all of that God given talent since their divorce? Surely he's been on top of his game since then. I mean, he was the driving force behind Janet Jackson selling over 100 million records afterall. Surely boatloads of artists have been clamoring over themselves to work with Mr. Elizondo to get some of that Elizondo Magic on their projects too. Everybody's been calling....

^ Rene was even there when Janet had to do that child abuse scene in "Good Times". You didn't know? Rene was a great puppeteer.

[img:$uid]http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/pop_-_feedlike/Christina/Gif/tiffany%20pollard/sqtu14.gif[/img:$uid]

He was her drug lord too, hence all the dancing energy

After finally hearing Take Care and Love 2 Love, i was reminded that Jan should compile her ballads onto a cd called Janet's Baby Making Music, complete with 2 new sultry jams

but what to do with poppier or less bedroomy ballads like Come Back to Me, Every Time, Again, Truth, Lonely and Nothing. Any thoughts on this track listing?

Making Love in The Rain

Funny How Time Flies

China Love

When We Oooh

Take Care

Anytime Anyplace

I Get Lonely

Rope Burn

Love Scene

Anything

Love 2 Love

Someday is Tonight

20 Fourplay

Spending Time With You

Body That Loves You

Discipline

Curtains

datdude said:

After finally hearing Take Care and Love 2 Love, i was reminded that Jan should compile her ballads onto a cd called Janet's Baby Making Music, complete with 2 new sultry jams

but what to do with poppier or less bedroomy ballads like Come Back to Me, Every Time, Again, Truth, Lonely and Nothing. Any thoughts on this track listing?

Making Love in The Rain

Funny How Time Flies

China Love

When We Oooh

Take Care

Anytime Anyplace

I Get Lonely

Rope Burn

Love Scene

Anything

Love 2 Love

Someday is Tonight

20 Fourplay

Spending Time With You

Body That Loves You

Discipline

Curtains

LOVE IT. Don't forget 70s Love Groove. You're inspiring me to make a 2 disc CD set, one with all her steamy bedroom ballads, another with her emotionally-driven ballads.

^^ What Sean said.

Each disc should have a title too.

Timmy84 said:

^^ What Sean said.

Each disc should have a title too.

Hmmm ...off to think up some ideas!

Is most people antcipating new music or is it just her hardcore fans?

babybugz said:

Is most people antcipating new music or is it just her hardcore fans?

well i dont think non fans would care