No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

like a virgin...

SoulAlive said:

Re: Janet, YES? Isn't it obvious how chasing trends rather than doing her own thing completely ruined her career? You correctly note that "all the other girls" are working with rappers, which means Madonna should stay 10,000 miles away from them.

No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

JoeTyler said:

SoulAlive said:

No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

that's because M's white, pure and simple; many folks (both black and white) cannot deal with the view of a white popstar embracing hit-hop (yeah, I said, hit-hop, not rap)

normally I don't like to post controversial/serious posts, but I just NEEDED to say this...

White? Lol.....how about talent-LESS.

JoeTyler said:

SoulAlive said:

No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

that's because M's white, pure and simple; many folks (both black and white) cannot deal with the view of a white popstar embracing hit-hop (yeah, I said, hit-hop, not rap)

normally I don't like to post controversial/serious posts, but I just NEEDED to say this...

no,let's not go there

Graycap23 said:

JoeTyler said:

that's because M's white, pure and simple; many folks (both black and white) cannot deal with the view of a white popstar embracing hit-hop (yeah, I said, hit-hop, not rap)

normally I don't like to post controversial/serious posts, but I just NEEDED to say this...

White? Lol.....how about talent-LESS.

n00b alert, n00b alert

VoicesCarry said:

SoulAlive said:

Let's put everthing in perspective

Madonna,you're supposed to be a trendsetter

but really...how many more trends can she set? How much more ground can she break? She's been on the scene since 1983! Fans who are waiting for Madonna to do a revolutionary,world-changing album...they can just stop waiting because it's not gonna happen.No one is doing anything like that these days.

Everyone and their mother has featured Nicki Minaj on a goddamned track this year

Why is it that everyone else works with rappers these days (Janet,Mariah,even Katy Perry) but when Madonna does it,she is "desperate","trying too hard",etc? As I recall,Janet has done singles with the likes of Nelly,Beenie Man,Busta Rhymes,even Khia.Would you accuse her of she "trying too hard" to remain hip?

Here's one piece of news that you guys are ignoring: the new album is being produced by William Orbit,Solveg and Benny Benassi..Those aren't exactly surefire Top 10 'hit' producers.And the new single also features M.I.A.,who is basically an underground artist.Not exactly my idea of 'mainstream'.If Madonna was only concerned with being "hip and trendy",there are alot of 'commercial' producers and artists that she would be working with right now.With the exception of Nikki Minaj's involvement on the first single,I haven't heard of any "commercial" gimmicks attached to this project.

Let's wait until we actually hear the album before we jump to conclusions

To your points:

1. Madonna, at the very least, should be finding a new producer and doing something interesting. Now it's OK for her to be lazy because everyone else is, too? Makes zero sense to me, but if you want to lower your standards just because you're a fan, be my guest. David, we all know there's no way you'd approve of Nicki Minaj in any other context. She's fucking terrible.

2. Re: Janet, YES? Isn't it obvious how chasing trends rather than doing her own thing completely ruined her career? You correctly note that "all the other girls" are working with rappers, which means Madonna should stay 10,000 miles away from them.

From the sounds of it, this will likely be a radio baiting clusterfuck attempt at an event single but I really don't get the direction of this era, if there is even one. With Hard Candy she was clearly going for the mainstream/Rhythmic route, but she was late with that as that sound was on its way out.

Madonna has made a career out of being ahead of trends or at least on time with them. However lately she has been a bit off, which I guess is to be expected with her aging. It appears she has joined the massive group of aging pop stars who have no idea what direction to go in.

3. M.I.A. is not exactly an underground artist. Her last two albums went Top 20 on the Billboard 200, with her last album peaking in the Top Ten. And "Paper Planes" was a huge hit three years ago. At any rate, she, like Minaj, is pretty fucking terrible.

Wow you are getting really angry without even hearing any of the music yet. Maybe you should criticize her process once you actually hear the result.

^^Exactly.At least we should wait until we hear the song before we judge it VC has no idea what this new record will sound like and already he's dismissing it as a Hard Candy sequel.One thing I can always be sure of is,Madonna never makes the same album twice.This album won't sound anything like the previous one.

SoulAlive said:

^^Exactly.At least we should wait until we hear the song before we judge it VC has no idea what this new record will sound like and already he's dismissing it as a Hard Candy sequel.One thing I can always be sure of is,Madonna never makes the same album twice.This album won't sound anything like the previous one.

The producers list, along with collaboraters like M.I.A., Sia and possibly St. Vincet tells me one thing. I have no idea what this is gonna turn out to sound like.

RKJCNE said:

SoulAlive said:

^^Exactly.At least we should wait until we hear the song before we judge it VC has no idea what this new record will sound like and already he's dismissing it as a Hard Candy sequel.One thing I can always be sure of is,Madonna never makes the same album twice.This album won't sound anything like the previous one.

The producers list, along with collaboraters like M.I.A., Sia and possibly St. Vincet tells me one thing. I have no idea what this is gonna turn out to sound like.

Precisely.I'm not even familiar with most of the names mentioned so far Sia? St.Vincent? I have no idea what their music sounds like.This doesn't sound like a Hard Candy situation to me.

SoulAlive said:

RKJCNE said:

The producers list, along with collaboraters like M.I.A., Sia and possibly St. Vincet tells me one thing. I have no idea what this is gonna turn out to sound like.

Precisely.I'm not even familiar with most of the names mentioned so far Sia? St.Vincent? I have no idea what their music sounds like.This doesn't sound like a Hard Candy situation to me.

Both are brilliant songwritters and interesting fits for Madonna, I would recommend:

paisleypark4 said:

Wow that Help Me video is pretty awesome!

It gives me chills! It'd be amazing if Madonna did something that exciting and different again.

[Edited 10/31/11 8:02am]

The sounds of Sia and St.Vincent are perfect for M.

People, this could be the first electro-funk album of her career, with some touches of modern (but worhty) hip-hop (MIA) and the occassional rapping of Nikki to give the album some outrageous/glamorous flavour (unlike that trap called Timberlake)

suddenly, I'M EXCITED

Hard Candy II? haaaa!, no...

JoeTyler said:

The sounds of Sia and St.Vincent are perfect for M.

People, this could be the first electro-funk album of her career, with some touches of modern (but worhty) hip-hop (MIA) and the occassional rapping of Nikki to give the album some outrageous/glamorous flavour (unlike that trap called Timberlake)

suddenly, I'M EXCITED

Hard Candy II? haaaa!, no...

SoulAlive said:

^^Exactly.At least we should wait until we hear the song before we judge it VC has no idea what this new record will sound like and already he's dismissing it as a Hard Candy sequel.One thing I can always be sure of is,Madonna never makes the same album twice.This album won't sound anything like the previous one.

I've never understood this pre-judgement condemnation of music before anyome has even heard an album in its entirety...

JoeTyler said:

The sounds of Sia and St.Vincent are perfect for M.

People, this could be the first electro-funk album of her career, with some touches of modern (but worhty) hip-hop (MIA) and the occassional rapping of Nikki to give the album some outrageous/glamorous flavour (unlike that trap called Timberlake)

suddenly, I'M EXCITED

Hard Candy II? haaaa!, no...

Yeah the productions do sound promising and I'll wait until hearing the record before I judge whether or not it's bad or not.

William Orbit just tweeted;

''recording an orchestra tomorrow''

xLiberiangirl said:

William Orbit just tweeted;

''recording an orchestra tomorrow''

Plus the only confirmed track Sia is involved with is a ballad, and she knows how to write them.

A fan swears that the song that was blasting out of Madonna's home several months ago is the new single "Give Me All Your Love"!

http://a.yfrog.com/img88/456/gg3.mp4

it includes the lyric "in a different time,in a different place,you could be my lucky star",which is clearly heard in that clip.

purplethunder3121 said:

SoulAlive said:

^^Exactly.At least we should wait until we hear the song before we judge it VC has no idea what this new record will sound like and already he's dismissing it as a Hard Candy sequel.One thing I can always be sure of is,Madonna never makes the same album twice.This album won't sound anything like the previous one.

I've never understood this pre-judgement condemnation of music before anyome has even heard an album in its entirety...

Yeah,it's ridiculous to judge a song or an album before you've even heard it

.

.

.

This project is sounding like Bionic to me, Sia, M.I.A, Nikki.

.

.

.

JoeTyler said:

that's because M's white, pure and simple so desperate to grab the attention of younger listeners that she will team up with any flavor-of-the-month rapper.

Much better.

SoulAlive said:

Re: Janet, YES? Isn't it obvious how chasing trends rather than doing her own thing completely ruined her career? You correctly note that "all the other girls" are working with rappers, which means Madonna should stay 10,000 miles away from them.

No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

No, you've got it all wrong. Please re-read. Where did I say rappers damaged Janet's career? I said that chasing trends did. And, yes, Nipplegate and the sex obsession included. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees. My point about rappers had nothing to do with Janet. My point was that if every mainstream female artist out there has a featured rapper right now, I'd prefer that Madonna avoided that temptation.

All artists should be held to high standards, not just Madonna. It's just that we've come to expect Madonna to avoid trend-chasing. Haven't we extolled the virtues of her progressiveness for decades now? Why should we embrace mediocrity from her (or from anyone, for that matter)? Hard Candy was utterly abysmal, and my apologies for worrying that Nicki Minaj and M.I.A. on the track is not exactly going to lead to anything of interest - or anything listenable, for that matter. (It does not help matters that both those bitches grate on my ears like nothing else LOL!)

Still, I'm curious to see what she comes up with. It can't be worse than Hard Candy. Or can it?

[Edited 10/31/11 18:01pm]

RKJCNE said:

VoicesCarry said:

To your points:

1. Madonna, at the very least, should be finding a new producer and doing something interesting. Now it's OK for her to be lazy because everyone else is, too? Makes zero sense to me, but if you want to lower your standards just because you're a fan, be my guest. David, we all know there's no way you'd approve of Nicki Minaj in any other context. She's fucking terrible.

2. Re: Janet, YES? Isn't it obvious how chasing trends rather than doing her own thing completely ruined her career? You correctly note that "all the other girls" are working with rappers, which means Madonna should stay 10,000 miles away from them.

From the sounds of it, this will likely be a radio baiting clusterfuck attempt at an event single but I really don't get the direction of this era, if there is even one. With Hard Candy she was clearly going for the mainstream/Rhythmic route, but she was late with that as that sound was on its way out.

Madonna has made a career out of being ahead of trends or at least on time with them. However lately she has been a bit off, which I guess is to be expected with her aging. It appears she has joined the massive group of aging pop stars who have no idea what direction to go in.

3. M.I.A. is not exactly an underground artist. Her last two albums went Top 20 on the Billboard 200, with her last album peaking in the Top Ten. And "Paper Planes" was a huge hit three years ago. At any rate, she, like Minaj, is pretty fucking terrible.

Wow you are getting really angry without even hearing any of the music yet. Maybe you should criticize her process once you actually hear the result.

I'm not angry at all I just don't find this news very inspiring. But to each his own.

David, you would probably really like Sia. Her album We Are Born is terrific - just listen to the single "Clap Your Hands".

Hard Candy wasn't at all abymal. It was actually the first album I was almost completely content with since Bedtime Stories. I'm disappointed that she's going back to electronic/house/euro dance. I think that sound is corny.

Oh well.

VoicesCarry said:

SoulAlive said:

No,you got it all wrong.Working with rappers didn't damage Janet's career.Her inability to re-invent herself and move on from the sexual image after Nipplegate,is what did her in.But that's another thread I just find it silly and ridiculous how other female artists can work with rappers and no one says anything,but when Madonna does it,she's "desperate"...."following trends",etc.Is Madonna supposed to be this bigger-than-life creature who can't like hip hop? Is she only allowed to do things that nobody else has ever done? I didn't know that she has to follow a set of rules while other female artists can do what they please.

No, you've got it all wrong. Please re-read. Where did I say rappers damaged Janet's career? I said that chasing trends did. And, yes, Nipplegate and the sex obsession included. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees. My point about rappers had nothing to do with Janet. My point was that if every mainstream female artist out there has a featured rapper right now, I'd prefer that Madonna avoided that temptation.

All artists should be held to high standards, not just Madonna. It's just that we've come to expect Madonna to avoid trend-chasing. Haven't we extolled the virtues of her progressiveness for decades now? Why should we embrace mediocrity from her (or from anyone, for that matter)? Hard Candy was utterly abysmal, and my apologies for worrying that Nicki Minaj and M.I.A. on the track is not exactly going to lead to anything of interest - or anything listenable, for that matter. (It does not help matters that both those bitches grate on my ears like nothing else LOL!)

Still, I'm curious to see what she comes up with. It can't be worse than Hard Candy. Or can it?

I honestly don't see the harm in Madonna having a guest rapper on a track,as long as the song is great to begin with.For example,I think Kanye West on "Beat Goes On" turned out perfectly and many fans insist that's one of the best songs on the album.If the new song is good to begin with,there's no way that a few lines from Nicki Minaj could ruin it

You keep using the phrase "trend-chasing".Once again,I ask you....how many more trends can Madonna set? How much more ground can she break? What more do you expect her to do? It's not that I'm accepting mediocrity from her,it's just that I feel like many fans expect too much from her sometimes.They have these unrealistic expectations of what she should sound like.They expect her to re-invent the wheel with each new record.I know she set extremely high standards for herself with albums like Ray Of Light and Like A Prayer,but that was a long time ago.Nobody is really breaking new ground these days,or doing something that nobody else has ever done before.What you refer to as "trend-chasing" is really just Madonna being what she has always been: a pop artist making pop music.I'm one of her biggest fans,but even I refuse to act like she's some supernatural being who can move mountains and walk on water,lol.

You keep mentioning Hard Candy but there's one thing you can be sure of.MADONNA NEVER MAKES THE SAME ALBUM TWICE.Are we clear on that? If she was gonna repeat herself,she would simply call up Timbaland again,or work with the hottest producers in R&B/hip-hop right now.You keep ignoring the list of producers and some of the other obscure names attached to this new album.This doesn't sound like a predictable,commercial project to me.

chamber said:

Hard Candy wasn't at all abymal. It was actually the first album I was almost completely content with since Bedtime Stories. I'm disappointed that she's going back to electronic/house/euro dance. I think that sound is corny.

Oh well.

Hard Candy is a fun,infectious album filled with solid dance grooves.She wasn't trying to make some big,heavy artistic statement.After several years of doing the electronica/techno thing,I thought it was refreshing to hear her working with American producers for a change Songs like "Miles Away","Beat Goes On","Heartbeat","She's Not Me" and "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" are top-notch.

Seeing AND hearing about Madonna & Nicki Minaj in an unholy alliance is not a surprise to me at all, given the Nicki is a clone of Lil'Kim who is also a Madonna-fan. This collboration was expected to happen soon or less.

My main complain is the social hypocrity of MIA.

This is another "socially-conscience" rap artist has sold-out on her principles just so she can finally have that taste of crossover success.

Then again, I should NOT have been surprise because MIA's record label N.E.E.T. Recordings is in alliance with Interscope Records, meaning that no good f***ing Jimmy Iovine had done it again, co-conspire another "socially-conscience" rap artist to compromise the same way The Black Eyed Peas (especially will.i.am via Fergie) did.

.

.

.

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Out of respect for SoulAlive, I will not allow myself to go off-topic with my rant in his/her thread. But let the truth be known that I'm starting to despise Jimmy Iovine a lot more that Clive Davis now!

[Edited 11/1/11 1:49am]