TotalAlisa said:

alphastreet said:

seriously...give it up TotalAlisa. i love me some janet, i love em about equally, and while i may agree Janet is a TECHNICALLY MORE TALENTED PERFORMER - she is missing something that Madonna has. and beauty/appreciation of music is in the eye of the beholder...no matter how you spin it, Janet will never be as 'big' as Madonna in the history of the world.

"SORRY"

janet has appreciation for music too. She has touched almost all genres of music. Not to mention she grew up in a musically talented family. So to insinuate janet doesn't have appreciation is far fetched.

You are right about the eye of the beholder, music is basically someone's tastes.

janet will not be as big as madonna but that is no knock to janet. Because we all know madonnaused gimmicks and shock tactics to get this big time house hold name. It wasn't based on actual talent. Someone being more popular does not make them a better artist. It is what it is.

[Edited 8/10/11 19:44pm]

friend, i like you too - actually i love your passion - but your avatar scares me though!

anyhow please read that it's two sentences. Janet lacks something Madonna HAS. The creative edge that makes something not just gimmicky and over the top but it's like the perfect mix of art and commerce, crassy vulgarity and divine inspiration. That's all I meant.

The appreciation/beauty of music being in the eye of (or I guess ear of) the beholder is what it is. what sounds good to my ears vs yours vs DavidEye's vs SoulAlive's (whoops) vs Cinnie (shout out!!!) vs VoicesCarry (gosh i miss him...not) is just what it is!

hugs.

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

Someone pointed out earlier that Madonna barely toured in the 90's and that she was acting and raising her children. I prefer Janet in concert over Madonna too, but to write Madonna off as an 80's act is unfair without really knowing her 90's or 00's work, the way people do it to MJ writing him off as an 80's artist or being Mr. Thriller. I'm all for friendly debates about the two artists, but I would go listen to some Madonna music of the 90's and 00's first, especially off Erotica, Ray of Light and American Life.

You can't change how some people feel about certain artists. Prince is written off as an 80's act and so is Whitney etc and its supposed to be ok. So I feel that Michael and Madonna are overrated then thats my perogative. Michael was an amazing performer but he wasn't the greatest. Madonna is the Queen of Pop Culture and Controversy but she's average at best. You just have to DEAL!!

so who was the greatest i think it was a combination of his spectacular videos and songs with the added fact that he could perform that made everything so perfect. More so then just his dancing. okay.

and if you think madonna is just average, then why claim her as queen of pop??? she wouldn't be if people like you who don't like her music wouldn't call her that.

.

[Edited 5/21/22 18:43pm]

mjscarousal said:

TotalAlisa said:

madonna is not on the same lines as Prince and MJ, she just isn't that talented and her fans will even say that. People always say she stayed in the public eyes because she was controversial not that she was talented. If we are going strictly or talent janet is closer to them then her. but if its all based on popularity and bigger star power then madonna. But she is not a better artists.

(not directed at you MJcarousal)

my only issue with people concerning this issue is, they will like janet jackson more than madonna. Will even say janet can dance, sing and perform better, like her music more, yet say madonna is the better artist. If you think madonna is better why don't you think she can sing/perform/dance better than jj, and why don't you like her music more than jj. so is the degree of talent of an artist based on popularity, or do you just like any artist based on popularity.

Hey boo you get to caught up with the talentless Madonna when ever she gets compared to Michael and Prince...

I personally wouldnt even compare even Janet to Prince and Michael because she is NO WHERE to be found on a Prince and MJ talent. She is a great performer, kick ass dancer and some of her best work is pre-velvet Rope that was cultivated by mostly Jimmy and Terry not knocking J but her "talent" doesnt compare with them which mostly is just being a good dancer .. sorry love her but no..

Likewise with Madonna, I wasnt catagorizing Mike, Prince and her together as far as talent goes just as big stars of the 80's.

The discussion is on popularity not on who has the more talent.

But she's right cuz Janet is the female Michael...... everything Michael did, Janet could do it too. The King & Queen of Dance. How is Michael more talented than Janet? Without Quincy Jones, would Michael even be in this discussion?

TotalAlisa said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

I've listened to her music and it bored me endlessly. I don't see what you see when it comes to her. She contributed to pop culture greatly but I don't give a damn about pop culture. I love music for the art of it. Madonna is nothing more than an older Britney or younger than Marilyn. Society always takes a no talent hoe and makes them seem more than what they are. I don't buy into it.

i agree with the bold. people are acting like because madonna had this controversial, sex vixen thing going on it made her superior to janet or any other female artist. What about mariah carey or whitney houston. Half these people aren't even madonna fans and don't listen to her music outside the 80s-early 90s and are hanging off her p***y lips like she is the originator of music

ps. i see you are a fan of my momma chaka khan

Me and you are in total agreement. Whitney would sing Madonna into an early grave, Mariah is better songwriter and makes better hits then you have Janet who is heads & shoulders above Madonna in performance skills. They can't even bring that argument up in here cuz thats a no win

Yes, Chaka is my queen!! Glad to see another fan

TotalAlisa said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

You can't change how some people feel about certain artists. Prince is written off as an 80's act and so is Whitney etc and its supposed to be ok. So I feel that Michael and Madonna are overrated then thats my perogative. Michael was an amazing performer but he wasn't the greatest. Madonna is the Queen of Pop Culture and Controversy but she's average at best. You just have to DEAL!!

so who was the greatest i think it was a combination of his spectacular videos and songs with the added fact that he could perform that made everything so perfect. More so then just his dancing. okay.

and if you think madonna is just average, then why claim her as queen of pop??? she wouldn't be if people like you who don't like her music wouldn't call her that.

FURTHERMORE...miss authority on what constitutes talent being able to be a FACT -

what is talent to you?

talent, in being a pop star, is not just singing and dancing and playing instruments.

talent is being able to write simplistic enough lyrics for top 40 radio that fit into simple but complex melodies with pop hooks.

talent is being able to stage a show that wows the crowd - the setlist, running time, costume themes...

talent is discovering other talent

talent is recognizing other talent in other pop artists

talent is dancing in a less conventional way

talent is predicting which underground trends will be ushered into mainstream pop and being RIGHT ABOUT IT

...these are all talents Madonna possesses...Janet possesses several of them too...but it ain't just singing on key, octave range, how high she can kick her leg...it's that inexplicable star quality, the depth of genres each has explored, the consistence of being innovative and keeping it fresh for the fans...ALL OF THAT IS ALSO ABOUT TALENT

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

Madonna is not cute, you're only fooling yourself if that's all you think there is to her. Looks and cuteness don't get you that far for 30 years if you have nothing relevant to say or offer to the world and express it in your music and art.

I've listened to her music and it bored me endlessly. I don't see what you see when it comes to her. She contributed to pop culture greatly but I don't give a damn about pop culture. I love music for the art of it. Madonna is nothing more than an older Britney or younger than Marilyn. Society always takes a no talent hoe and makes them seem more than what they are. I don't buy into it.

I couldn't care less what pop culture tells me, or I would be a Britney Spears fan and buy their bullsh.it about her "icon" status. I'm just stating what she did, I have always cared for the music and art more than what society tells me about who she is

TotalAlisa said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

You can't change how some people feel about certain artists. Prince is written off as an 80's act and so is Whitney etc and its supposed to be ok. So I feel that Michael and Madonna are overrated then thats my perogative. Michael was an amazing performer but he wasn't the greatest. Madonna is the Queen of Pop Culture and Controversy but she's average at best. You just have to DEAL!!

so who was the greatest i think it was a combination of his spectacular videos and songs with the added fact that he could perform that made everything so perfect. More so then just his dancing. okay.

and if you think madonna is just average, then why claim her as queen of pop??? she wouldn't be if people like you who don't like her music wouldn't call her that.

Queen of Pop Culture..... not pop music. She lives for the cameras and is the reason why we have Britney, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian in the news.

Michael can be the greatest to you but to me, my personal best is Stevie Wonder. His music is the reason why I'm such a music nerd and musician myself. I honestly don't think there is one person who is greater than anybody. I don't deify celebrities.

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

Someone pointed out earlier that Madonna barely toured in the 90's and that she was acting and raising her children. I prefer Janet in concert over Madonna too, but to write Madonna off as an 80's act is unfair without really knowing her 90's or 00's work, the way people do it to MJ writing him off as an 80's artist or being Mr. Thriller. I'm all for friendly debates about the two artists, but I would go listen to some Madonna music of the 90's and 00's first, especially off Erotica, Ray of Light and American Life.

You can't change how some people feel about certain artists. Prince is written off as an 80's act and so is Whitney etc and its supposed to be ok. So I feel that Michael and Madonna are overrated then thats my perogative. Michael was an amazing performer but he wasn't the greatest. Madonna is the Queen of Pop Culture and Controversy but she's average at best. You just have to DEAL!!

I understand if people don't like his music after the 80's, but to blame it on his skin colour change or allegations, or to allege "he lost it" is unfair.

PlayboyOriginal said:

mjscarousal said:

Hey boo you get to caught up with the talentless Madonna when ever she gets compared to Michael and Prince...

I personally wouldnt even compare even Janet to Prince and Michael because she is NO WHERE to be found on a Prince and MJ talent. She is a great performer, kick ass dancer and some of her best work is pre-velvet Rope that was cultivated by mostly Jimmy and Terry not knocking J but her "talent" doesnt compare with them which mostly is just being a good dancer .. sorry love her but no..

Likewise with Madonna, I wasnt catagorizing Mike, Prince and her together as far as talent goes just as big stars of the 80's.

The discussion is on popularity not on who has the more talent.

But she's right cuz Janet is the female Michael...... everything Michael did, Janet could do it too. The King & Queen of Dance. How is Michael more talented than Janet? Without Quincy Jones, would Michael even be in this discussion?

He wrote songs before and without Quincy too with his brothers on Epic.

alphastreet said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

I've listened to her music and it bored me endlessly. I don't see what you see when it comes to her. She contributed to pop culture greatly but I don't give a damn about pop culture. I love music for the art of it. Madonna is nothing more than an older Britney or younger than Marilyn. Society always takes a no talent hoe and makes them seem more than what they are. I don't buy into it.

I couldn't care less what pop culture tells me, or I would be a Britney Spears fan and buy their bullsh.it about her "icon" status. I'm just stating what she did, I have always cared for the music and art more than what society tells me about who she is

Marvelous, then we can agree to disagree.... Madonna to you is one of the greats, Madonna to me is one of the fakes.

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

I couldn't care less what pop culture tells me, or I would be a Britney Spears fan and buy their bullsh.it about her "icon" status. I'm just stating what she did, I have always cared for the music and art more than what society tells me about who she is

Marvelous, then we can agree to disagree.... Madonna to you is one of the greats, Madonna to me is one of the fakes.

I know people hate her for the same reasons as Britney, for taking what already existed and making it even more popular and reasons like that, or for sex. I criticized some of her actions too in the past, but at the end of the day, it's all about the music and she has released personal tunes too whether people like it or not and tried different styles.

alphastreet said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

You can't change how some people feel about certain artists. Prince is written off as an 80's act and so is Whitney etc and its supposed to be ok. So I feel that Michael and Madonna are overrated then thats my perogative. Michael was an amazing performer but he wasn't the greatest. Madonna is the Queen of Pop Culture and Controversy but she's average at best. You just have to DEAL!!

I understand if people don't like his music after the 80's, but to blame it on his skin colour change or allegations, or to allege "he lost it" is unfair.

I wouldn't say he lost it.... but he did become cheesy and corny with the Man In The Mirror and Black or White crap that he put out. He let his demons about paparazzi and trying to leave up to the legacy of Thriller diminish the talent that he had. He'll always be an amazing performer who sets the standard for epic music videos. I give him his credit but I'm also gonna speak the truth. James Brown and Jackie Wilson came before MJ so why aren't they the greatest since he took everything he knew from them?

smoothcriminal12 said:

I wasn't around, so I wouldn't know, but in my opinion Madonna has NOTHING on Janet.

Janet dreams of being Madonna.

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

I understand if people don't like his music after the 80's, but to blame it on his skin colour change or allegations, or to allege "he lost it" is unfair.

I wouldn't say he lost it.... but he did become cheesy and corny with the Man In The Mirror and Black or White crap that he put out. He let his demons about paparazzi and trying to leave up to the legacy of Thriller diminish the talent that he had. He'll always be an amazing performer who sets the standard for epic music videos. I give him his credit but I'm also gonna speak the truth. James Brown and Jackie Wilson came before MJ so why aren't they the greatest since he took everything he knew from them?

The music scene and attitudes were slightly different then from recent times, but that's a whole other discussion. And they are considered as greats.

SUPRMAN said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I wasn't around, so I wouldn't know, but in my opinion Madonna has NOTHING on Janet.

Janet dreams of being Madonna.

They both do dance music and cover different topics.

purplethunder3121 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Neither, it's Bananarama.

Its a cruel, cruel summer....

Liked that but 'Robert DeNiro's Waiting' was a guilty pleasure.

jsluva said:

^^^

Well their fans think otherwise, overall they were competing with each other because their careers took off around the same time and although they were different they were still the best female "entertainers" and they were able to be successful touring acts as well and maintained popularity through the 80's,90's and even found sucess in the 2000-2009 decade as well. Let's not forget Paula Abdul, she was definitely more of a direct competitor as well during her short little era.

Which is irrelevant to the question of whether they are/were rivals.

SUPRMAN said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I wasn't around, so I wouldn't know, but in my opinion Madonna has NOTHING on Janet.

Janet dreams of being Madonna.

Because?

mjscarousal said:

NaughtyKitty said:

True. Paula is a real dancer and she can do a variety of dance styles. She's studied dance--started in her childhood and has choreographed for many people and as we all know she choreographed Janet's early videos.

Which is why even though I love JJ I dunno why Janet fans dont give Paula credit when she is in the mix with Janet. Janet is a damn good dancer but Paula was the master mind choregrapher behind alot of her early work not that that is a bad thing but just give credit where it is due

Janet fans are delusionally blinded.

I think Paula was the best female dancer of our time, and as Janet stuck around longer, she proved herself to be one of the best dancers. The woman choreographed the Jacksons, Laker Girls, Janet, you name it. Which Janet fans aren't giving her credit? I'll kick their butts and to be honest, I was introduced to two songs off Forever Your Girl and two songs off Control at the same time and gravitated towards Paula more, but the more I got to know about Control, I loved it way more.

[Edited 8/10/11 20:37pm]

IDRAG4MJ said:

Cinnamon234 said:

Not quite. For as huge as Madonna was and is, Michael has always been more famous and was probably the ONLY person (as far as entertainers go) who could upstage Madonna in the 80's, 90's and today if he was alive.

Otherwise, yes, she was huge and bigger than Janet was in the 80's.

I'd say a better question would be to ask about Janet rivaling Madonna in the late 80's and 90's especially. At one point, Janet was bigger than Madonna in the U.S. She was bigger than MJ at one point too (I'm talking about the U.S. here btw). With the "Rhythm Nation" and "Janet" albums, she was everywhere and I do believe she was bigger than Madonna during the early 90's. At least in America she was.

"Erotica" underperformed and was not as big of a seller as her previous albums. Janet was giving Madonna some serious competition in the 90's.

Janet slayed madonna in the 90s point bland period..not only in america but worldwide

..Janet had more hits...her tours out grossed madonnas ..i remember billboard reported..when janet =s tours were grossing in the 70s mill range during rythmn nation madonna was grossing 18mill ..lets not kids ourselves Janet Jackson WAS HUUUUGE in the 90s

Why restrict yourself to the '90's? Is that when their respective careers began?

Cherry picking for a favorable result? Intellectually dishonest.

TotalAlisa said:

kenny88 said:

I never got the comparison other then the fact that they both create dance music. Personally, I think Madonna won this "battle" already. There's really no denying that she's the blueprint for female Pop stars and the most successful of all female artists.

we can thank madonna for her blueprint of no talented, non-singing, barely can dance or perform singers who use gimmicks and sexuality to maintain popularity.

janet's blueprint is different, she was an awesome performer, used iconic choreographed dances in her videos and performance and didn't rely on gimmicks.

so there was no battle that madonna won.

Janet's fat butt had no sexuality. She was always hiding the bulges.

Janet had a lot of hits in the 90's, but I honestly see songs like Vogue, Frozen and Ray of Light still being remembered till this day, and the cult classic Evita. People remember some stuff from the janet. era and Together again too, but I find it's people who experienced those eras more than those who didn't.

As for tours, Janet was the hottest touring female artist of the 90's IMO and did deservedly well. VR is the best show I have ever attended. But some of us have also forgotten how Iconic a little tour called Blonde Ambition with it's Truth or Dare documentary was. Controversy aside, Janet and Madonna were on fire in 1990, and Madonna's tour outfit became iconic, the stage set and choreography was amazing, she was about empowerment in one avenue while Janet was about empowerment in another. In a way, both artists were promoting third wave feminism through their music.

[Edited 8/10/11 20:42pm]

TotalAlisa said:

kenny88 said:

They're both in the same vein when it comes to their approach as performers - meek voices; elaborate tours with good back-up dancers.

I don't think Janet did a good job being as consistent as Madonna have over the years. Madonna is still talked about today even without an album. Her name is always attached to any upcoming Pop artist's performance or album.

you just proved what i said, madonna is all about popularity. thats all you base madonnas merits on. Janet is a better performer/dancer and singer. Thats a fact. Her videos had several iconic choreographic dances. No it was not the same approach. if janet's talents were on the same level as madonna, she wouldn't even make it as far. She is a jackson so more was expected of her and it was almost standard for her.

madonna is only talked about by certain people. Janet is in Guiness book of world records too so is mariah carey.

show me a madonna without gimmicks and lets see if the career would have lasted long.

Asking for what can't be done? That's not an argument for thinking anything about Janet or Madonna.

PlayboyOriginal said:

mjscarousal said:

Hey boo you get to caught up with the talentless Madonna when ever she gets compared to Michael and Prince...

I personally wouldnt even compare even Janet to Prince and Michael because she is NO WHERE to be found on a Prince and MJ talent. She is a great performer, kick ass dancer and some of her best work is pre-velvet Rope that was cultivated by mostly Jimmy and Terry not knocking J but her "talent" doesnt compare with them which mostly is just being a good dancer .. sorry love her but no..

Likewise with Madonna, I wasnt catagorizing Mike, Prince and her together as far as talent goes just as big stars of the 80's.

The discussion is on popularity not on who has the more talent.

But she's right cuz Janet is the female Michael...... everything Michael did, Janet could do it too. The King & Queen of Dance. How is Michael more talented than Janet? Without Quincy Jones, would Michael even be in this discussion?

I REFUSE TO TAKE THE BAIITTTTT I will not...

I will JUST say this... DANCING is NOT just ONE AREA Michael was EXCEPTIONALLY talented in which is a among MANY other areas UNLIKE Janet which is mostly limited to just dancing.

This is not Janet vs Michael or Michael vs. Janet why are other artists being compared to Janet? This between Madonna and Janet. but shit if yall gonna act crazy and say things that are off the wall be prepared for stan wars

[Edited 8/10/11 20:41pm]

okay now where did this other troll come from?????

I have to give my two cents. I can see why people say female Michael cause of the dancing and sometimes sounding similar to him though her voice is different from his, but if you want to choose a female Michael from that time, I think Jody Watley or Karyn White are good candidates. Jody was an amazing performer who could sing, dance and write.

TotalAlisa said:

alphastreet said:

Madonna is not cute, you're only fooling yourself if that's all you think there is to her. Looks and cuteness don't get you that far for 30 years if you have nothing relevant to say or offer to the world and express it in your music and art.

madonna was only relevant for her gimmicks and shocking people. That has nothing to do with music. its about staying in public interest. If it was all about great music that kept the public interested in you thats a whole different story.

I think Madonna was better between 2000-2010 than Janet. And the '80's. You can argue over the '90's but historically, it's not contest. Madonna will be remembered as the better artist and not a gimmick as her detractors here want to reduce her to. Madonna's influence had been greater, broader and more enduring than Janet's.

PlayboyOriginal said:

alphastreet said:

Madonna is not cute, you're only fooling yourself if that's all you think there is to her. Looks and cuteness don't get you that far for 30 years if you have nothing relevant to say or offer to the world and express it in your music and art.

I've listened to her music and it bored me endlessly. I don't see what you see when it comes to her. She contributed to pop culture greatly but I don't give a damn about pop culture. I love music for the art of it. Madonna is nothing more than an older Britney or younger than Marilyn. Society always takes a no talent hoe and makes them seem more than what they are. I don't buy into it.

Let me guess, but you're a Janet fan.