Now this'll be controversial.

Thread title get your attention?

I've always wondered what appeal white artists see in "crossing over" to black audience. What is it about us black people that some white artists find so appealing that they have to sell their soul in order to score it big with the black audience?

This has been happening from the beginning of time. In the beginning, it started out as white guys marketing black music for white audiences (for example, Elvis was crucial in bringing black music over to white audiences). But then, I don't know when, it seemed to reverse. White artists now crossed over to black audiences by making songs that they knew black audiences would love. For example: George Michael's Faith was crucial in crossing him over, garnering him an award for Best Black Album (which also pissed a bunch of black people off). I Want Your Sex was a good R&B record too. Faith subsequently became the first album by a Caucasian to top the R&B charts. Justin Timberlake looks in the mirror and sees a black man. His first crossover songs (posted in the thread about JT making it without NSYNC) cites Gone and some song with Nelly as being crossover hits that allowed him to release Justified and FutureSex/LoveSounds, both R&B albums that screamed "Please make me black". Hell, Justin Bieber has started rapping with black artists and has been performing on stage with Chris Brown in an attempt to cross over to a black audience that really doesn't care.

The book Funk: the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One has a few interesting points that talk about how commercial music always seems to be black music watered down so that it can be delivered to the masses (aka, disco from funk, rockabilly from black rock and roll and country.)

My point is, why do white artists cross over? What do they get from it? Also, switch the roles. Why do black artists cross over? What do they get from it?

Thoughts?

[Edited 8/8/11 14:45pm]

Good question. My answer would be to obtain a "wider audience". This obviously to bring in as much money as possible. A musician/artist can sing a variety of music, but you don't want to just limit yourself to one type of audience, because then you limit what goes in your pocket. Times have changed, so why not market to various demographics, as possible and bring in a larger audience. It's more money for an artist.

We see this happening in films in Hollywood as well, so they'll cast one or two members of specific racial/ethnic groups to bring in an across-the-board audience. I think if you have the talent to sing a specific type of music, then why not? Artists have been stealing various music styles/looks from each other for years, and making it their own.

[Edited 8/8/11 10:12am]

smoothcriminal12 said:

Now this'll be controversial.

Thread title get your attention?

I've always wondered what appeal white artists see in "crossing over" to black audience. What is it about us black people that some white artists find so appealing that they have to sell their soul in order to score it big with the black audience?

This has been happening from the beginning of time. In the beginning, it started out as white guys marketing black music for white audiences (for example, Elvis was crucial in bringing black music over to white audiences). But then, I don't know when, it seemed to reverse. White artists now crossed over to black audiences by making songs that they knew black audiences would love. For example: George Michael's Faith was crucial in crossing him over, garnering him an award for Best Black Album (which also pissed a bunch of black people off). I Want Your Sex was a good R&B record too. Faith subsequently became the first album by a Caucasian to top the R&B charts. Justin Timberlake looks in the mirror and sees a black man. His first crossover songs (posted in the thread about JT making it without NSYNC) cites Gone and some song with Nelly as being crossover hits that allowed him to release Justified and FutureSex/LoveSounds, both R&B albums that screamed "Please make me black". Hell, Justin Bieber has started rapping with black artists and has been performing on stage with Chris Brown in an attempt to cross over to a black audience that really doesn't care.

The book Funk: the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One has a few interesting points that talk about how commercial music always seems to be black music watered down so that it can be delivered to the masses (aka, disco from funk, rockabilly from black rock and roll and country.)

My point is, why do white artists cross over? What do they get from it? Also, switch the roles. Why do black artists cross over? What do they get from it?

Thoughts?

CORRECTION: With the album Faith, George Michael became the first white male artist to ever have an album go #1 on the Billboards R&B/Soul (today known as Hip-Hop/R&B) album charts.

2elijah said:

Good question. My answer would be to obtain a "wider audience". This obviously to bring in as much money as possible. A musician/artist can sing a variety of music, but you don't want to just limit yourself to one type of audience, because then you limit what goes in your pocket. Times have changed, so why not market to various demographics, as possible and bring in a larger audience. It's more money for an artist.

We see this happening in films in Hollywood as well, so they'll cast one or two members of specific racial/ethnic groups to bring in an across-the-board audience. I think if you have the talent to sing a specific type of music, then why not? Artists have been stealing various music styles/looks from each other for years, and making it their own.

[Edited 8/8/11 10:12am]

Exactly.

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Now this'll be controversial.

Thread title get your attention?

I've always wondered what appeal white artists see in "crossing over" to black audience. What is it about us black people that some white artists find so appealing that they have to sell their soul in order to score it big with the black audience?

This has been happening from the beginning of time. In the beginning, it started out as white guys marketing black music for white audiences (for example, Elvis was crucial in bringing black music over to white audiences). But then, I don't know when, it seemed to reverse. White artists now crossed over to black audiences by making songs that they knew black audiences would love. For example: George Michael's Faith was crucial in crossing him over, garnering him an award for Best Black Album (which also pissed a bunch of black people off). I Want Your Sex was a good R&B record too. Faith subsequently became the first album by a Caucasian to top the R&B charts. Justin Timberlake looks in the mirror and sees a black man. His first crossover songs (posted in the thread about JT making it without NSYNC) cites Gone and some song with Nelly as being crossover hits that allowed him to release Justified and FutureSex/LoveSounds, both R&B albums that screamed "Please make me black". Hell, Justin Bieber has started rapping with black artists and has been performing on stage with Chris Brown in an attempt to cross over to a black audience that really doesn't care.

The book Funk: the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One has a few interesting points that talk about how commercial music always seems to be black music watered down so that it can be delivered to the masses (aka, disco from funk, rockabilly from black rock and roll and country.)

My point is, why do white artists cross over? What do they get from it? Also, switch the roles. Why do black artists cross over? What do they get from it?

Thoughts?

CORRECTION: With the album Faith, George Michael became the first white male artist to ever have an album go #1 on the Billboards R&B/Soul (today known as Hip-Hop/R&B) album charts.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

smoothcriminal12 said:

TonyVanDam said:

CORRECTION: With the album Faith, George Michael became the first white male artist to ever have an album go #1 on the Billboards R&B/Soul (today known as Hip-Hop/R&B) album charts.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Basically. Faith hit #1 on the Black album chart like you said and it also won an award (I believe an AMA) for Best Black Album. IIRC, Alexander O'Neal was heated about that, because his (also great) album didn't win.

TonyVanDam said:

2elijah said:

Good question. My answer would be to obtain a "wider audience". This obviously to bring in as much money as possible. A musician/artist can sing a variety of music, but you don't want to just limit yourself to one type of audience, because then you limit what goes in your pocket. Times have changed, so why not market to various demographics, as possible and bring in a larger audience. It's more money for an artist.

We see this happening in films in Hollywood as well, so they'll cast one or two members of specific racial/ethnic groups to bring in an across-the-board audience. I think if you have the talent to sing a specific type of music, then why not? Artists have been stealing various music styles/looks from each other for years, and making it their own.

[Edited 8/8/11 10:12am]

Exactly.

Acceptance among black Americans is worth its weight in gold -- or platinum -- to non-black musicians.

And 2-e brings up a great point. Here's a partial list of actors who got their start/big break starring in so-called "black sitcoms/movies" and/or films helmed by black directors/producers:

Marisa Tomei

Jim Carrey

Adam Sandler

Kirstin Scott-Thomas

John Tuturro

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Exactly.

Acceptance among black Americans is worth its weight in gold -- or platinum -- to non-black musicians.

And 2-e brings up a great point. Here's a partial list of actors who got their start/big break starring in so-called "black sitcoms/movies" and/or films helmed by black directors/producers:

Marisa Tomei

Jim Carrey

Adam Sandler

Kirstin Scott-Thomas

John Tuturro

Exactly. I think as long as you know the history of various genres of music, then what's the problem? Blacks or Whites don't have a trademark on who can listen to what type of music, based on one's racial/ethnic background. If the music sounds good, I'm going to listen to it or buy it, regardless of what racial/ethnic group a musician/artist is from. Music is music, to be shared and enjoyed and ironically has played a major role in causing people from various racial/ethnic groups, to interact and have a good time with one another, and to appreciate the music of the artist(s) as well as, allowing people to forget their differences, even if it's just for a few moments, hours, day or night. Sometimes music is like an invisible olive branch.

[Edited 8/8/11 11:03am]

Call me naive, but i never understood this black and white, actually i hate it.

Why do people think in race when it comes to music? (and lots of other stuff, but that's not the topic).

You have different genres of music and everybody is allowed to enjoy and play the music somebody likes.

Here's a phenomenon I don't understand:

Frequently, I hear this from white folx (for example, Re: Adele) -

"She has a great voice! She sounds soulful and it's really hard for white people to sing like black people. What an incredible talent to be able to do that."

My usual response -

"Okay. I listen to dozens of female singers who are black that sound the same as she does. Are they as talented as she is?"

I mean, if somebody sounds good in a style, they sound good. Soul, Country, whatever. I think the Rolling Stones have a good blues sound, but I wouldn't say that they have more talent than a black blues artist simply because "it's harder for white people to sing like black people."

[Edited 8/8/11 12:36pm]

Money.

The more demographics and target groups you win over, the better because that means more moolah.

Honestly, I think some just want that street cred appeal. They want to look more tough and less fruity so they cross over? Also, like some people say they want to have a bigger audience so they can have more money.

Asymphony5 said:

Honestly, I think some just want that street cred appeal. They want to look more tough and less fruity so they cross over? Also, like some people say they want to have a bigger audience so they can have more money.

I don't get what you mean by "street cred appeal". In what genre of music are we talking about? I think if a person has a desire for a certain type of sound, and they have the gift of voice, so-to-speak, to sing it, then it's a talent they are blessed with. You have Black people who like classical and opera, yet some people are surprised when they hear that. I think if a certain sound (i.e., soul/r&b/jazz/pop, etc.) appeals to one who aspires to obtain a career in music, whether that is singing or playing an instrument, then they should seek out their dream.

However, there are some record execs who just want to "jump-on-the-bandwagon" for what's most popular and in demand, and seek out artists who are not really talented in specific genres, and will somehow "market them with popular artist(s) of the moment," and sell them to the public that way.

[Edited 8/8/11 13:25pm]

smoothcriminal12 said:

Now this'll be controversial.

Thread title get your attention?

I've always wondered what appeal white artists see in "crossing over" to black audience. What is it about us black people that some white artists find so appealing that they have to sell their soul in order to score it big with the black audience?

This has been happening from the beginning of time. In the beginning, it started out as white guys marketing black music for white audiences (for example, Elvis was crucial in bringing black music over to white audiences). But then, I don't know when, it seemed to reverse. White artists now crossed over to black audiences by making songs that they knew black audiences would love. For example: George Michael's Faith was crucial in crossing him over, garnering him an award for Best Black Album (which also pissed a bunch of black people off). I Want Your Sex was a good R&B record too. Faith subsequently became the first album by a Caucasian to top the R&B charts. Justin Timberlake looks in the mirror and sees a black man. His first crossover songs (posted in the thread about JT making it without NSYNC) cites Gone and some song with Nelly as being crossover hits that allowed him to release Justified and FutureSex/LoveSounds, both R&B albums that screamed "Please make me black". Hell, Justin Bieber has started rapping with black artists and has been performing on stage with Chris Brown in an attempt to cross over to a black audience that really doesn't care.

The book Funk: the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One has a few interesting points that talk about how commercial music always seems to be black music watered down so that it can be delivered to the masses (aka, disco from funk, rockabilly from black rock and roll and country.)

My point is, why do white artists cross over? What do they get from it? Also, switch the roles. Why do black artists cross over? What do they get from it?

Thoughts?

First, I'd like to say racism is a motherfucker. Second, I am curious of the OP's age. And third, I can't believe you just lumped George Michael in with Justin Timberlake and Justin Bieber. George Michael is a self-contained artist. He had/has natural soul which is what made/makes him appealing to fans of soul music. Even when he was boppin' around in those short-shorts with Andrew Ridgely in Wham, he was charting high on the Soul/R&B charts. George was also very easy on the eyes, but that's secondary to his musical talent. Timberlake and Bieber are soulless puppets/posers. Any "crossover" appeal they may have is due to them employing black people to create and execute their sound, and collaborating with black people to give the appearance of being "down". As for the accusation of "white artists" watering down "black music", I put to you this question: What is the excuse so many of today's popular black artists' have for selling their soul in order to score it big with today's black audiences?

it could be urban audiences can embrace non colored folks if the music is good ...

ie. Lisa Standsfield, Teena Marie (who was marketing to the urban audience and not the other way around), Robin Thicke (who realized after that first cd disaster he turned it around), Jon B.

Because it's better music.

Black, White, Indian, Asian, Middle Eastern

Music is music who give's a damn who listens or why, i love music done by musicians all ove rteh color spectrum. I listen to them for them not there color or there supposed crossover successs.

It's 2011 now, race shouldn't be constantly brought up in everything.... and in music just enjoy music whether it's black, white Puerto Rican we can all be everybody freaken

yanowha said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Now this'll be controversial.

Thread title get your attention?

I've always wondered what appeal white artists see in "crossing over" to black audience. What is it about us black people that some white artists find so appealing that they have to sell their soul in order to score it big with the black audience?

This has been happening from the beginning of time. In the beginning, it started out as white guys marketing black music for white audiences (for example, Elvis was crucial in bringing black music over to white audiences). But then, I don't know when, it seemed to reverse. White artists now crossed over to black audiences by making songs that they knew black audiences would love. For example: George Michael's Faith was crucial in crossing him over, garnering him an award for Best Black Album (which also pissed a bunch of black people off). I Want Your Sex was a good R&B record too. Faith subsequently became the first album by a Caucasian to top the R&B charts. Justin Timberlake looks in the mirror and sees a black man. His first crossover songs (posted in the thread about JT making it without NSYNC) cites Gone and some song with Nelly as being crossover hits that allowed him to release Justified and FutureSex/LoveSounds, both R&B albums that screamed "Please make me black". Hell, Justin Bieber has started rapping with black artists and has been performing on stage with Chris Brown in an attempt to cross over to a black audience that really doesn't care.

The book Funk: the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One has a few interesting points that talk about how commercial music always seems to be black music watered down so that it can be delivered to the masses (aka, disco from funk, rockabilly from black rock and roll and country.)

My point is, why do white artists cross over? What do they get from it? Also, switch the roles. Why do black artists cross over? What do they get from it?

Thoughts?

First, I'd like to say racism is a motherfucker.

I am NOT a racist, just to clear that up.

Second, I am curious of the OP's age.

Does it matter?

And third, I can't believe you just lumped George Michael in with Justin Timberlake and Justin Bieber.

No way in hell am I putting the Lord of Pop (Lord as in Prince, not God) in the same category as JB and JT. Those were just examples.

As for the accusation of "white artists" watering down "black music", I put to you this question: What is the excuse so many of today's popular black artists' have for selling their soul in order to score it big with today's black audiences?

Black artists trying to score it big with black artists?...

The only reason I posted this, by the way, is not because I was racist, but because I was reading Wikipedia articles on crossover acts and African-American music. I am NOT a racist and I believe that music is colour blind.

Jeez, some people love to throw that word "racist" around these days.

[Edited 8/8/11 14:43pm]

Could it be that they simply like the music and would like to record something similar?

Look at me: my ass is white as an ass can be white. But if I was to make popular music, I would probably try to pull off some funk, simply because I like it. And it would be much more interesting to me than starting the millionth white rock band sounding like Coldplay.

I don’t know I guess some would say what is it with Black artists trying to appeal to the white crowd aka” going pop” or “ selling out”. If I like the song or artist I could careless if you black, white, orange or purple it doesn’t matter to me. But I think alot of white artists that crossover are fans of the music and image that alot of black artists promote and they get a wider audience.

A great example of black artists crossing over is Michael Jackson with "Beat It". Another good example is Prince with "Little Red Corvette" and the whole Purple Rain album which effectively garnered him superstar status.

2elijah said:

Asymphony5 said:

Honestly, I think some just want that street cred appeal. They want to look more tough and less fruity so they cross over? Also, like some people say they want to have a bigger audience so they can have more money.

I don't get what you mean by "street cred appeal". In what genre of music are we talking about? I think if a person has a desire for a certain type of sound, and they have the gift of voice, so-to-speak, to sing it, then it's a talent they are blessed with. You have Black people who like classical and opera, yet some people are surprised when they hear that. I think if a certain sound (i.e., soul/r&b/jazz/pop, etc.) appeals to one who aspires to obtain a career in music, whether that is singing or playing an instrument, then they should seek out their dream.

However, there are some record execs who just want to "jump-on-the-bandwagon" for what's most popular and in demand, and seek out artists who are not really talented in specific genres, and will somehow "market them with popular artist(s) of the moment," and sell them to the public that way.

[Edited 8/8/11 13:25pm]

It happens. Look at Bieber. He is so desperate to be taken seriously that he acts in a certain way that he thinks is considered 'gangsta.' He doesn't like being called bubblegum pop even though his music is basically like that. Also, at Justin Timberlake. He does features for a lot of Black artists and calls himself a R&B guy rather than pop. He wants to be one of the guys from the hood even though he's not. It gives him that appeal because it becomes okay for black people to consider him cool rather than that nerdy guy who used to be in NSYNC. Most of this is done so people would think they're cool and street therefore widening their audience.

Didn't know you had to fit a certain demographic to play certain music.

Is it even okay to be a white Prince fan? I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to be overly sympathetic towards black people or anything.

Spinlight said:

Didn't know you had to fit a certain demographic to play certain music.

Is it even okay to be a white Prince fan? I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to be overly sympathetic towards black people or anything.

Lol. You're taking this too seriously.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Spinlight said:

Didn't know you had to fit a certain demographic to play certain music.

Is it even okay to be a white Prince fan? I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to be overly sympathetic towards black people or anything.

Lol. You're taking this too seriously.

I'm just being dumb.

Musicians crossover for a billion reasons. Some for money, some for love of music, and some do it by accident.

Spinlight said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Lol. You're taking this too seriously.

I'm just being dumb.

Musicians crossover for a billion reasons. Some for money, some for love of music, and some do it by accident.

I have an inkling that it's all orchestrated surreptitiously by record labels just itching to make more money.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Spinlight said:

I'm just being dumb.

Musicians crossover for a billion reasons. Some for money, some for love of music, and some do it by accident.

I have an inkling that it's all orchestrated surreptitiously by record labels just itching to make more money.

It's not always surreptitious, though. There's people who've gone on record to say that Prince purposely picked out white musicians (who were obviously not as talented as their black counterparts) for The Revolution in a bid to crossover. Similar to how Michael Jackson rode that New Jack Swing tide or Madonna biting vogueing from the young black and latino gays in NY.

Money is a big draw for damn near everyone involved but you can't force people to buy records. If they dig it, they dig it. It might be clever advertising to put Lady Gaga on BET (lol idk) but its similar to having a Winehouse epitaph on the cover of VIBE.

*kanyeshrug*

I don't even know what my point is now.

Spinlight said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I have an inkling that it's all orchestrated surreptitiously by record labels just itching to make more money.

It's not always surreptitious, though. There's people who've gone on record to say that Prince purposely picked out white musicians (who were obviously not as talented as their black counterparts) for The Revolution in a bid to crossover. Similar to how Michael Jackson rode that New Jack Swing tide or Madonna biting vogueing from the young black and latino gays in NY.

Money is a big draw for damn near everyone involved but you can't force people to buy records. If they dig it, they dig it. It might be clever advertising to put Lady Gaga on BET (lol idk) but its similar to having a Winehouse epitaph on the cover of VIBE.

*kanyeshrug*

I don't even know what my point is now.

What Prince was doing in the early days was obviously a blatant crossover attempt. Eventually he just stopped caring about his black audience and released Purple Rain, his ultimate crossover album. Then he weirded them all out with Around The World In A Day. It's funny how Michael Jackson is thone of the only black artists who has had to cross over to a black audience (or, in his case, cross back over. And he never really fully made it there. Dangerous got him some well earned street cred though. )

smoothcriminal12 said:

Spinlight said:

It's not always surreptitious, though. There's people who've gone on record to say that Prince purposely picked out white musicians (who were obviously not as talented as their black counterparts) for The Revolution in a bid to crossover. Similar to how Michael Jackson rode that New Jack Swing tide or Madonna biting vogueing from the young black and latino gays in NY.

Money is a big draw for damn near everyone involved but you can't force people to buy records. If they dig it, they dig it. It might be clever advertising to put Lady Gaga on BET (lol idk) but its similar to having a Winehouse epitaph on the cover of VIBE.

*kanyeshrug*

I don't even know what my point is now.

What Prince was doing in the early days was obviously a blatant crossover attempt. Eventually he just stopped caring about his black audience and released Purple Rain, his ultimate crossover album. Then he weirded them all out with Around The World In A Day. It's funny how Michael Jackson is thone of the only black artists who has had to cross over to a black audience (or, in his case, cross back over. And he never really fully made it there. Dangerous got him some well earned street cred though. )

What's weird to me is that both MJ and P had to feel compelled to come "back to" their black audience and, in the end, MJ was the one who received the actual audience and P received the actual cred.

I'm curious as to what kind of music P would be making today if his attempts at reaching the black 90s audience went as swimmingly as MJ's......

Well, how is it that black people (in the US) generally won't accept blacks who make rock or folk music and black radio doesn't play it? Such as Living Colour, Jimi Hendrix, Tracy Chapman, Traci Chapman, Odetta, etc. How about easy listening/adult contemporary like Johnny Mathis, opera like Kathleen Battle, and country like Charlie Pride? Same for blues & jazz, a lot of the audience is white and so are a lot of the younger acts. It was white guys from England who promoted the blues performers in the 60's and popularized it after it had became obscure and was only in the juke joints. If it's not R&B, soul, rap, or funk and maybe gospel, then it is ignored by a lot of black people.