trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I'll never pick Janet over Michael.

They're both better than Shitney. That's for sure.

Fuck you trueiopian.

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

They're both better than Shitney. That's for sure.

Fuck you trueiopian.

Fuck you and your shitty taste.

I don't think choosing a janet album over an mj album has to mean you like janet better, some of you are reading too much into this....already made my point, just speaking for others.

seeingvoices12 said:

Globally, and Internationally , People still listen to History Till this day , The VR is nowhere to be found ....History is his most personal, creative work, he was at his peak as a songwriter on that album , Stranger in moscow is the prime example.....

History covered more important issues , sent more imporant messages , and was recieved more globally....There is no comparsion!

Only michael who create angry political songs yet they sound catchy as hell...........RIP

yes I also believe and it's been established many times Michael is the more popular one of the two internationally, but this thread is not about popularity, it's about the music. I love both of their messages on the albums and both of them get credit from me for covering important issues: Michael with injustice, environmental issues and media conditioning; janet with depression, domestic violence, AIDS and homophobia. Earth Song was #1 for many weeks in Europe and went on to become a classic, and Together Again was on the Billboard charts for almost a year and did well around the world with the money going towards an AIDS organization, so both did their job at the time.

[Edited 7/14/11 18:00pm]

The Velvet Rope V HIStory = My selects

Velvet Rope V Scream = Scream (but hey you get both) (H)

You v They Don't Care About Us = as much as I love TDCAU I have to go with You (TVR)

Got Til It's Gone v Stranger in Moscow = toughest call but Stranger in Moscow (H)

My Need V This Time Around = My Need (TVR)

Go Deep V Earth Song = Earth Song (H)

Free Xone v D.S = Free Xone (TVR)

Together Again v Money = Money (H)

Empty v Come Together = Empty (TVR)

What About v You Are Not Alone = What About (TVR)

Every Time v Childhood = both are weak to me but I'll pick Every Time (TVR)

Tonight's The Night v Tabloid Junkie = Tabloid Junkie (H)

I Get Lonely v 2 Bad = Tough call as both kill it but I find I go with 2 Bad (H)

Rope Burn v HIStory = tough call but HIStory (H)

Anything v Little Susie = the weakest of her slow jams sequence v MJ's overblown drama I go with Anything (TVR)

Special v Smile = Smile (H)

Can't Be Stopped (TVR) by default

In a track by track review of both I end up with TVR= 7 H = 8

But if I just go through the stand out tracks I get

TVR HIStory

Velvet Rope Scream

You They Don't Care About Us

Got Til It's Gone Stranger in Moscow

My Need This Time Around

Go Deep Earth Song

Free Xone Money

Empty Come Together

What About Tabloid Junkie

I Get Lonely 2 Bad

Rope Burn History

Can't Be Stopped Smile

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Globally, and Internationally , People still listen to History Till this day , The VR is nowhere to be found ....History is his most personal, creative work, he was at his peak as a songwriter on that album , Stranger in moscow is the prime example.....

History covered more important issues , sent more imporant messages , and was recieved more globally....There is no comparsion!

Only michael who create angry political songs yet they sound catchy as hell...........RIP

Dangerous is his most creative work. History is overrated as hell. Songs like History, Money, 2Bad, and Lil Susie are not strong songs and would have never made it as singles.

What album is full of singles? Thriller aside (although that album had its own filler).

So what they wouldn't have made it as singles?

That is not the reason for creating an album. You don't need an album to just continually release singles.

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

your opinion, The fact that those songs didn't become singles enhanced what I said , The song does not have to be a single or radio-friendly to be great , A great song is a Great song.....Little susie is a materpiece!

Stranger in moscow alone destroys the whole VR album...Next!

Lil Susie a masterpiece? Really? Wow. Out of all his albums this was his worst and many people I'm sure would agree. I'm surprised it sold so much. I can't even listen to the whole album without laughing. Shaq's rapping was terrible

So you like 'Invincible' better than 'HIStory?'

You're just being a hater.

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

BOTDF or Invincible were. But HIStory was great.

Well BOTDF was the worse but songs like BOTDF, Morphine, Ghosts, and Is It Scary are great songs to me and I still enjoy listening to them but the rest of the album is trash

History and Invincible are neck and neck but Invincible is a little better overall.

Invincible had alot of really goods songs and a better flow to it than History. Why it gets over looked I don't know.

Swa said:

The Velvet Rope V HIStory = My selects

Velvet Rope V Scream = Scream (but hey you get both) (H)

You v They Don't Care About Us = as much as I love TDCAU I have to go with You (TVR)

Got Til It's Gone v Stranger in Moscow = toughest call but Stranger in Moscow (H)

My Need V This Time Around = My Need (TVR)

Go Deep V Earth Song = Earth Song (H)

Free Xone v D.S = Free Xone (TVR)

Together Again v Money = Money (H)

Empty v Come Together = Empty (TVR)

What About v You Are Not Alone = What About (TVR)

Every Time v Childhood = both are weak to me but I'll pick Every Time (TVR)

Tonight's The Night v Tabloid Junkie = Tabloid Junkie (H)

I Get Lonely v 2 Bad = Tough call as both kill it but I find I go with 2 Bad (H)

Rope Burn v HIStory = tough call but HIStory (H)

Anything v Little Susie = the weakest of her slow jams sequence v MJ's overblown drama I go with Anything (TVR)

Special v Smile = Smile (H)

Can't Be Stopped (TVR) by default

In a track by track review of both I end up with TVR= 7 H = 8

But if I just go through the stand out tracks I get

TVR HIStory

Velvet Rope Scream

You They Don't Care About Us

Got Til It's Gone Stranger in Moscow

My Need This Time Around

Go Deep Earth Song

Free Xone Money

Empty Come Together

What About Tabloid Junkie

I Get Lonely 2 Bad

Rope Burn History

Can't Be Stopped Smile

FUN! I didn't realize the amount of tracks are almost the same, I'll list my preferences of the two without typing it all out

Scream

You (though I LOVE TDCAU, live better)

Stranger in Moscow

My Need

Earth Song

Free Xone

Together Again (like Money's Fire Island mix better)

Come Together (but Empty is brilliant)

What About

Everytime

Tabloid Junkie

I Get Lonely (but 2bad is so cool,even with Shaq, sue me!)

HIStory (like the remix better)

Little Susie

Tough one but Smile

Can't Be Stopped

Wow, I tied and chose about the same amount

trueiopian said:

Unholyalliance said:

You can post as many "U Mad" memes as you want but it won't change the FACT that TVR was praised by critics as Janet's most introspective album to date. HIStory on the other hand.... Not so much. Like I said, HIStory has a few great, classics like YANA, Stranger in Moscow and TDRCABU but as a WHOLE album it doesn't compare to TVR.

[Edited 7/14/11 15:28pm]

I have three songs from "The Velvet Rope." "Everytime," "This Time," and "Special."

I gave the CD away, which is what happens to every Janet CD I've bought.

She's as plastic and disposable as Britney Spears.

I think 'HIStory' is one of the best albums of the 90's.

mancabdriver said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Globally, and Internationally , People still listen to History Till this day , The VR is nowhere to be found ....History is his most personal, creative work, he was at his peak as a songwriter on that album , Stranger in moscow is the prime example.....

History covered more important issues , sent more imporant messages , and was recieved more globally....There is no comparsion!

Only michael who create angry political songs yet they sound catchy as hell...........RIP

No one is denying that History was a more commercial success than TVR. But ever since Michael's death you even see this pre OTW albums stacked in music stores. So that argument has little value.

It’s really annoying that MJ fans think is music is untouchable and dismiss any comparisons to other work especially to his less popular and successful sister.

Yet TVR was much more favored amongst the critics and was featured in rolling stones top 500 albums of all time where History was nowhere to be seen. And it featured one of the most successful singles in the 90’s.

49_?

mancabdriver said:

seeingvoices12 said:

History destroys the TVR in every aspect , not only the commercial success but the artistic value , and the longevity, as I said , The VR is nowhere to be found or heard across the globe while people still listen to " They Don't care about us " and "earth song" till this day , songs on history are pure classics and timeless , that album will live forever but TRV is dead already! It's only alive among some die hard fans !

So the comparsion is Irrelevant! History is a pure art!

A typical die hard Michael fan response.

one dimentional and repetitive - pretty much like the album it's self don't you think?

IF it were one dimensional and repetitive it would have that flow and cohesion that is so valued wouldn't it?

Unholyalliance said:

trueiopian said:

TVR was praised by critics as Janet's most introspective album to date.

You are right about that, but at least your posts don't seem as if they are being posted by a raving lunatic anymore.

As for both albums, I rather enjoy them both, but there's just too many interludes on TVR. That gets annoying real fast. That being said, I think that, sonically, TVR is way more cohesive, but the better and more memorable songs are on HIStory. I do agree that while they are all over the place sonically, but I understand why they were in the order that they were in though. It was like a journey as opposed to just arbitrarily placing songs on an album.

As for critics, these were the same people who also give Thriller not such great reviews and then revised them later. I mean...so what?

[Edited 7/14/11 17:04pm]

Do you demand that of every album?

I could care less if the music is good. IF the order really annoys me, I'd just rearrange the track list to my liking but in all my years of listening to music I've never felt the need to do that. An album can be great and just be a collection of great songs. It doesn't have to be a concept album, or a theme. Where's the flow and cohesion on "Sign O The Times?" "Purple Rain?" "Faith?" (George Michael) "Older?" (George Michael).

Plenty of great albums are collections of great songs. "Thriiller" had no theme, flow or cohesion.

trueiopian said:

Unholyalliance said:

You are right about that, but at least your posts don't seem as if they are being posted by a raving lunatic anymore.

As for both albums, I rather enjoy them both, but there's just too many interludes on TVR. That gets annoying real fast. That being said, I think that, sonically, TVR is way more cohesive, but the better and more memorable songs are on HIStory. I do agree that while they are all over the place sonically, but I understand why they were in the order that they were in though. It was like a journey as opposed to just arbitrarily placing songs on an album.

As for critics, these were the same people who also give Thriller not such great reviews and then revised them later. I mean...so what?

[Edited 7/14/11 17:04pm]

I can't say the same about your posts.

Of course, HIStory has more memorable songs - It was more popular and successful. I never denied that. But as a whole album? I prefer TVR because it flows better.

Define "flow" please.

Or how does "flow" enhance the songs on the album that make it so much better than if they'd been arranged in an alternative order?

I loved "Scream" when it debuted and "This Time Around Around", but I thought that HIStory was a heaping pile of dog shit, even worse than Bad. It wasn't until the past few years that I've come to that album! It has some songs I can do without, of course. But I realized overall it is really a great album.

As for Janet, "I Get Lonely" is the last song of hers I even liked. All I know of TVR is the singles that were released and played on urban radio. Not impressed.

Adisa said:

I loved "Scream" when it debuted and "This Time Around Around", but I thought that HIStory was a heaping pile of dog shit, even worse than Bad. It wasn't until the past few years that I've come to that album! It has some songs I can do without, of course. But I realized overall it is really a great album.

As for Janet, "I Get Lonely" is the last song of hers I even liked. All I know of TVR is the singles that were released and played on urban radio. Not impressed.

That's the issue with Velvet Rope, the singles were good, but IMO did not represent the album. I remmeber waiting for songs like Velvet Rope, What About and Special to be released. I was relieved at least You and Everytime were released, even if they didn't chart, and that What About was performed, though I wish it were a single.

What this boils down to is just another excuse for an MJ thread outside of the "official."

SUPRMAN said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

Lil Susie a masterpiece? Really? Wow. Out of all his albums this was his worst and many people I'm sure would agree. I'm surprised it sold so much. I can't even listen to the whole album without laughing. Shaq's rapping was terrible

So you like 'Invincible' better than 'HIStory?'

You're just being a hater.

I was reading that was thought "Who actually thinks that?"

I like Invincible but HIStory shits all over Invincible and then leaves a $20 on it's nightstand

I noticed those who like HIStory like MJ in later years, and those who like Invincible like MJ's earlier material.

alphastreet said:

I noticed those who like HIStory like MJ in later years, and those who like Invincible like MJ's earlier material.

Uh... not this guy. I love most if not all of it. Just like what I like.

Timmy, do you still have your reviews of HIStory and Velvet Rope you wrote back in the day on MJJForum? Would love to re-read them to reflect

SUPRMAN said:

mancabdriver said:

No one is denying that History was a more commercial success than TVR. But ever since Michael's death you even see this pre OTW albums stacked in music stores. So that argument has little value.

It’s really annoying that MJ fans think is music is untouchable and dismiss any comparisons to other work especially to his less popular and successful sister.

Yet TVR was much more favored amongst the critics and was featured in rolling stones top 500 albums of all time where History was nowhere to be seen. And it featured one of the most successful singles in the 90’s.

49_?

Still on the list my friend.

And at 256. Do your homework before trying to be a smartass.

[Edited 7/15/11 7:06am]

purplethunder3121 said:

What this boils down to is just another excuse for an MJ thread outside of the "official."

mancabdriver said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Globally, and Internationally , People still listen to History Till this day , The VR is nowhere to be found ....History is his most personal, creative work, he was at his peak as a songwriter on that album , Stranger in moscow is the prime example.....

History covered more important issues , sent more imporant messages , and was recieved more globally....There is no comparsion!

Only michael who create angry political songs yet they sound catchy as hell...........RIP

No one is denying that History was a more commercial success than TVR. But ever since Michael's death you even see this pre OTW albums stacked in music stores. So that argument has little value.

It’s really annoying that MJ fans think is music is untouchable and dismiss any comparisons to other work especially to his less popular and successful sister.

Yet TVR was much more favored amongst the critics and was featured in rolling stones top 500 albums of all time where History was nowhere to be seen. And it featured one of the most successful singles in the 90’s.

Rolling Stones also voted Britney Spears as a better dancer than James Brown.

mancabdriver said:

SUPRMAN said:

49_?

Still on the list my friend.

And at 256. Do your homework before trying to be a smartass.

[Edited 7/15/11 7:06am]

Obviously I didn't care where they ranked it.

I'm surprised it made the list.

But in the end, I don't buy music or rate it based on Rolling Stone so . . . . .

Timmy84 said:

paisleypark4 said:

I wasnt goign for Velvet Rope because most people said that in the beginning. HIStory is a good album. It just sometimes tries too hard to be trendy and experiemental int he same time almost...some of it seems robotic "This Time Around" "You Are Not Alone" "Come Together"....just seem way too easy. Little Susie & Smile..while are good songs left me feeling akward after the end of History..which I felt should have closed the album out. The rest of it is great however...I thought tracklisting could have been alot better..does not flow very well.

Velvet Rope has great flow and is maddening and calming in the same time. Almost everything from the intro to I Get Lonely was flawless (except for the boring "My Need"). I guess..I just liked the music more in The Velvet Rope..dark, careless...spacey, funky and confusing even in bits..many experimental layers. Michael was indeed experimental (Money, DS, Tabloid Junkie)..but it was more robotic than Janet's experimentation..it was at times..the music portion in janet's album spoke for itself.

I never liked "My Need". It definitely was an energy downer. Maybe that's why HIStory least had more good songs, it did have a period where MOST of the songs were on an emotional high. Hmm, maybe I pre-judged the cohesion of the albums a little.

my need is my jam ..just love the drumming in that song! and the lyrics do speak 2 me about wanting someone so bad that u just need them now

but i do want 2 thank the OP for this thread cause i got both albums track by track going on right now

at the time of velvet rope coming out i was more janet than michael but history is not a bad album. i agree that the greatest hits disc was so unnecessary or should have been the 2nd disc than the first. one thing i will say about Velvet rope that gets overlooked is that hidden track after Special. it reminds me of the proud display janet has had about being a african american woman and reminded the whole community that we can rise up.

L4OATheOriginal said:

Timmy84 said:

I never liked "My Need". It definitely was an energy downer. Maybe that's why HIStory least had more good songs, it did have a period where MOST of the songs were on an emotional high. Hmm, maybe I pre-judged the cohesion of the albums a little.

my need is my jam ..just love the drumming in that song! and the lyrics do speak 2 me about wanting someone so bad that u just need them now

but i do want 2 thank the OP for this thread cause i got both albums track by track going on right now

at the time of velvet rope coming out i was more janet than michael but history is not a bad album. i agree that the greatest hits disc was so unnecessary or should have been the 2nd disc than the first. one thing i will say about Velvet rope that gets overlooked is that hidden track after Special. It reminds me of the proud display janet has had about being a african american woman and reminded the whole community that we can rise up.

TotalAlisa said:

Overall History has more dated songs, then velvet rope.

Personally, I think it's a little too early to talk about what's dated and not since 20s years really haven't passed as of yet... That being said I don't really remember either album sounding much like what was released at the time though. At that the time of release I remember there was a lot of hip hop/r&b meshing going on at the time.

I called it the Jackson genre, a class of their own called awesome!