Yeah I totally agree. Though I appreciate the musical diversity of HIStory, it's notable for the gems on it, and for Velvet Roe, I love the flow and the empathy in it.

InsatiableCream said:

Cinnamon234 said:

I think I enjoy more songs on "Velvet Rope", but at the same time for as good as that album is, there isn't one song on "Velvet Rope" to me that is on the level of "Stranger In Moscow" imo. That song is a masterpiece and VR doesn't have any song that is on that level, not to me anyway, but overall I'd say I enjoy VR more. It's Janet's most personal and introspective album to date. I really liked the direction musically she took with it.

I agree with this.

with songs like Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, They Don't Care About Us; HIStory definitely had more songs that stand out. However, it gets clumped together with other less than stellar songs. Velvet Rope flows much stronger for me.

Both albums are great though.

I think it comes down to this, there's more quality in HIStory than say the Velvet Rope. But cohesively as a full album, the Velvet Rope does have a purpose of how it's run in its concept. BUt HIStory definitely had the better produced songs.

MJ's best vs. Janet's best.

HIStory no contest.

The only problem with VR is that it stuck to a sequencing formula that all janet albums have had - you know when you get about 3/4 of the way through and then you think - ok here come all the slo jams.

For the standouts on VR are:

You (killer)

Got Til It's Gone (so smooth)

FreeXone - (THE track of the album)

Empty - (technoseductive)

Swa said:

The only problem with VR is that it stuck to a sequencing formula that all janet albums have had - you know when you get about 3/4 of the way through and then you think - ok here come all the slo jams.

For the standouts on VR are:

You (killer)

Got Til It's Gone (so smooth)

FreeXone - (THE track of the album)

Empty - (technoseductive)

I agree. I'd add What About too. I love the darker rock textures of that one. And the title track = But like I said HIStory had better songs.

CHIC0 said:

enough said.

I think that HIStory is Michael Jackson's best album (..or my favourite) and I don't think Janet's albums have ever been on par with MJ's in terms of quality, creativity, vocals etc.. Not saying that they're bad though.

So with that in mind, it has to be HIStory.

TotalAlisa said:

CHIC0 said:

enough said.

as much as I love my baby Michael Jackson, I have to choose janet. This was the time when I became the biggest janet jackson fan. I went crazy for this woman, over this album. And i have SOOO MANY FREAKING memories attached. Plus i listen to this album more, although i listened to History a whole lot.

I know what you mean, I'm gaga for MJ all the way, and though I'm also a huge JJ fan, him kinda being quiet in the late 90's and Janet being on fire like that just grabbed me

Emancipation89 said:

No one even said that.

Technically, picking Velvet Rope over HIStory means that you think that Velvet Rope is better.

[Edited 7/12/11 4:11am]

HIStory is a strange one for me. I love it and the songs are very personal. I love the fact that MJ was angry on it! The videos were great! Saying that there are things that I don't like (if we are talking as a complete package). The cover is awful. Just really disappointing. I hate the fact it was packaged in with a greatest hits. Also it feels like a random collection of songs rather than a well laid out album. I rarely listen to it from start to finish because the songs are so different (not a bad thing, but as a sequence of songs???).

Velvet Rope makes me sad. It is an amazing album to me in terms of the way it flows, the themes and the music. I miss Janet albums like that. Janet what happened??? That was the last time a Janet album made me feel a certain way. You went from an artist with something to say to a randy cougar.

How can anybody pick TVR over HIStory? Whilst I like TVR, there isn't a single song on there as powerful as Earth Song, TDCAU, Moscow, History, Little Susie, Tabloid Junkie etc.

I disagree that HIStory is just a random collection of songs. To me, it's his most cohesive, complete piece of work. It starts with Scream full of anger and indignation and goes on an emotional rollercoaster of a journey right up until Smile, a song filled with pathos which ends with a tiny, almost inaudible giggle. It's such a perfect statement and in my mind, MJ's crowning artistic achievement.

I wish Accept Me was included on Velvet Rope, possibly over Tonight's the Night since the tempo is similar.

Very hard choice they both dwell so deep into the artist. I'm leaning more towards the Velvet Rope because of What About and Tonight's The Night both songs featuring ideas Michael never covered. Also Velvet Rope has my favorite Janet song Go Deep. I love HIStory, don't get me wrong but What about is just amazing. But Stranger in Moscow....WOW! That song is amazing, so passionate and real, very hard choice but as of now Velvet Rope

smoothcriminal12 said:

Emancipation89 said:

Technically, picking Velvet Rope over HIStory means that you think that Velvet Rope is better.

[Edited 7/12/11 4:11am]

Which some people for some reason want to make excuses for.

MattyJam said:

How can anybody pick TVR over HIStory? Whilst I like TVR, there isn't a single song on there as powerful as Earth Song, TDCAU, Moscow, History, Little Susie, Tabloid Junkie etc.

I disagree that HIStory is just a random collection of songs. To me, it's his most cohesive, complete piece of work. It starts with Scream full of anger and indignation and goes on an emotional rollercoaster of a journey right up until Smile, a song filled with pathos which ends with a tiny, almost inaudible giggle. It's such a perfect statement and in my mind, MJ's crowning artistic achievement.

Basically

The ONLY reason why a bunch of people have said that is because the thread started out like that. Most people I see here make opinons based on popularity and not what is technical. They sway with the responses that are popular to say. Now all of a sudden people want to switch up and say History was better artisically... smh.. its kinda sad exactly

I love VR but calling it better than History is beyond obsurd. I have no problem with someone refering it over History BUT THE REASONS reflect artistic approach and product which is crazy when History is light years ahead of Velvet Robe in those catagories technically more than those catagories. That was the FIRST album where Janet really experimented with different themes and really opened up personally which I appreciate but comparing that NEXT to History is disrespectful History is just more innovative and Michael covered experiemented more with a wide range of genres.

[Edited 7/12/11 9:05am]

[Edited 7/12/11 9:17am]

aardvark15 said:

Very hard choice they both dwell so deep into the artist. I'm leaning more towards the Velvet Rope because of What About and Tonight's The Night both songs featuring ideas Michael never covered. Also Velvet Rope has my favorite Janet song Go Deep. I love HIStory, don't get me wrong but What about is just amazing. But Stranger in Moscow....WOW! That song is amazing, so passionate and real, very hard choice but as of now Velvet Rope

Oh hell no.

smoothcriminal12 said:

aardvark15 said:

Very hard choice they both dwell so deep into the artist. I'm leaning more towards the Velvet Rope because of What About and Tonight's The Night both songs featuring ideas Michael never covered. Also Velvet Rope has my favorite Janet song Go Deep. I love HIStory, don't get me wrong but What about is just amazing. But Stranger in Moscow....WOW! That song is amazing, so passionate and real, very hard choice but as of now Velvet Rope

Oh hell no.

Did michael sing about spousal abuse and the LGBT community?

I don't care for MJ after he parted ways with Quincy Jones. I sold my copy of HIStory a long time ago.

Velvet Rope wins easily.

aardvark15 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Oh hell no.

Did michael sing about spousal abuse and the LGBT community?

Why would Michael sing about that when that was not going on with HIM PERSONALLY at the time? Neither was Janet those particular themes but see that was a period in time Michael was going through ALOT personally.

No but HE DID cover themes such as , Injustice, Politics, Government, Religion, Murder, Media,Propaganda, loneliness, Greed&Money, Hatred, Betrayel, Humanity& Nature, Discrimination, Racism, The allegations, Lies and ETC.

While he did not go in depth with homosexuality it IS mentioned on History.

History was a very politically conscience album that ALSO incorporated what was going on with him personally.

Emancipation89 said:

mjscarousal said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Technically, picking Velvet Rope over HIStory means that you think that Velvet Rope is better.

.

Which some people for some reason want to make excuses for

No. I think Parade is a better album artistically than Come but I find Come more enjoyable and I like that album better. Just because you like something better that doesn't necessarily mean you think it's "better".

Why do you keep saying this? I know people are free to think what they want. HOWEVER, History is WAY artistically better than VR and even people who oddly prefer VR have said that

aardvark15 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Oh hell no.

Did michael sing about spousal abuse and the LGBT community?

And? So? Did Janet sing about child molestation allegations?

mjscarousal said:

Emancipation89 said:

No. I think Parade is a better album artistically than Come but I find Come more enjoyable and I like that album better. Just because you like something better that doesn't necessarily mean you think it's "better".

Why do you keep saying this? I know people are free to think what they want. HOWEVER, History is WAY artistically better than VR and even people who oddly prefer VR have said that

That's exactly my freaking point. Even some people who prefer VR say History is a better album, so why trip over some people's personal preference?

Emancipation89 said:

mjscarousal said:

Why do you keep saying this? I know people are free to think what they want. HOWEVER, History is WAY artistically better than VR and even people who oddly prefer VR have said that

That's exactly my freaking point. Even some people who prefer VR say History is a better album, so why trip over some people's personal preference?

I've been horsing around the whole time, my friend. It's all fun and games.

smoothcriminal12 said:

aardvark15 said:

Did michael sing about spousal abuse and the LGBT community?

And? So? Did Janet sing about child molestation allegations?

She dueted with him on Scream.

About an earlier post yes MJ did cover a lot in HIStory, I just wanted to put that. I love both but Velvet Rope is ahead as of now. I love HIStory but I love the Velvet Rope just as much and as of now, a little more. The Velvet Rope could be used as a philosophy, HIStory can't. They are both amazing albums and don't need to be compared.

Emancipation89 said:

mjscarousal said:

Why do you keep saying this? I know people are free to think what they want. HOWEVER, History is WAY artistically better than VR and even people who oddly prefer VR have said that

That's exactly my freaking point. Even some people who prefer VR say History is a better album, so why trip over some people's personal preference?

I am not.. WHY ARE YOU?

That still isnt going to stop me from stating to the obvious regardless of preference.

[Edited 7/12/11 10:29am]

paisleypark4 said:

Hmm..both imo suffered from their endings. Velvet Rope was a little long, and MJ was trying too many experimental styles to make it flow well. Lyrically both are great and I feel like I got the artist out of both albums. I will go with Velvet Rope though only because it was strange, out of character, personal and edgy...it was kind of trendsetting for her to take the left field with this album. The whole vibe was eerie almost, sexy and conceptual. History has some great songs on it...I still think HIStory should have been the final track on the album. It climaxes and then..leaves us with two..songs that should be bonus tracks. Almost the same with Velvet Rope...I think Anything and Rope Burn threw it off balance coming right before Special...those could have been left off..or b-sides at least.

I think the cohesion of the album was all wrong. I still have yet to make my set list of HIStory, which I will do very soon but I agree with the title track being the LAST song on the album. Matter of fact, I'd probably take songs like Smile and, possibly, You Are Not Alone out of there (and definitely Come Together, though I liked his cover, I always thought having that song on such a personal album was out of place).

For Janet, having Tonight is the Night was one of the low moments of the album to me. It kinda took the energy down until I Get Lonely picked it back up. I'd also get rid of Anything though I like it, it didn't really go with that album's particular direction since most of the music on the Velvet Rope had a very dark edge (except for Go Deep, Together Again and Special).

Definately HIStory.

It's more a more consistant album with better singles. TVR has a killer first half, but then has wank like Empty, Anything, Tonights The Night and Free Xone. Not to mention the annoying 2 second interludes in between each song.

[Edited 7/12/11 10:47am]

Fiona01 said:

Definately HIStory.

It's more a more consistant album with better singles. TVR has a killer first half, but then has wank like Empty, Anything, Tonights The Night and Free Xone. Not to mention the annoying 2 second interludes in between each song.

[Edited 7/12/11 10:47am]

Uh, Empty and Free Xone were two of the best tracks on VR to me lol

But yeah those interludes should not be part of the album. I never got why Janet made so much interludes, guess that's her way of making her albums even more personal.

Timmy84 said:

Fiona01 said:

Definately HIStory.

It's more a more consistant album with better singles. TVR has a killer first half, but then has wank like Empty, Anything, Tonights The Night and Free Xone. Not to mention the annoying 2 second interludes in between each song.

[Edited 7/12/11 10:47am]

Uh, Empty and Free Xone were two of the best tracks on VR to me lol

But yeah those interludes should not be part of the album. I never got why Janet made so much interludes, guess that's her way of making her albums even more personal.

By sharing her masturbation woes? Hmmm, classy...

Fiona01 said:

Timmy84 said:

Uh, Empty and Free Xone were two of the best tracks on VR to me lol

But yeah those interludes should not be part of the album. I never got why Janet made so much interludes, guess that's her way of making her albums even more personal.

By sharing her masturbation woes? Hmmm, classy...

She did have some cute interludes. Especially the "Fasten Your Seatbelts" one with Janet and her friends, or ex-friends I should say (Tina and "Bucky").